BIG10 expansion talk: a few update details....
Some more from nevadabuck:
--Kansas talk is real, but it's all Kansas right now presenting their case
--Denver is part of the Kansas tv market, odd as that sounds, which may devalue Colorado's importance
--The BIG12/PAC12 meeting may not have had more substance than the leaders of the two Conference showing the Conference members they are on the job, however much that can mean
--The new FOX/BIG10 contract in the works has HUGE $$! HUGE!
--Those huge $$ might be looking very good to USC, Washington, and Oregon, as it could potentially be ~2 times what they make now in their current PAC12 deal
--it's clearer now, USC is determined leave the PAC12
--USC is still looking for one team, just one at the moment, to go with them, Arizona could even be the team
--There was no mention of Oregon St, Washington St, and Arizona St in all this
Again, watch the video for the information. Don't freak out that is from an Ohio St related channel.
August 5th, 2021 at 12:03 AM ^
In what world is any town outside of Lawrence part of "Kansas' market?"
Kansas football has no market. If people in Kansas gave a shit about KU football, they'd have a better team, facilities, salaries, etc.
August 5th, 2021 at 12:08 AM ^
Usually the natives here in KS root for KSU football and KU basketball. The brief orange bowl memories have faded.
First you have to understand what a market is. TV providers charge you for channels whether you watch them or not. So the more homes that have the BTN as part of their Tv package, the more bargaining power the B1G has. Again, it’s not relevant whether the people in the new market actually watch or not. The people in the existing markets watch enough for the “ratings” to not matter nearly as much, as ratings really only impacts advertising numbers and not money brought in from subscribers.
When you’re looking at markets, it’s about how many more TV packages you can sell that include your channel. Not about how popular that particular team is. That’s why Rutgers is such a big addition for the B1G. You lock down the largest TV market in the country, and locked down a few million dollars per year more for each of your conference members as a result. Doesn’t matter if people in NYC watch Rutgers or not. There’s now a few million more people who are paying for BTN as part of their cable package. again, whether they watch the channel or not they’re still paying for it.
Yeah, that TV market thing is pretty crazy. I have a St. Joseph, MI address but am in the Chicago market. I get South Bend and Chicago channels. If I was 1.5 miles north with a Benton Harbor address, I'd be in a Michigan market and get Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo channels.
Feel the pain, brother, but it's not true. I lived 13 years in BH and still got stuck with CHI/SB channels. Need to get to Coloma/South Haven to get GR/Kzoo.
I was going to give the same reply. Benton Harbor and Benton Township in fact Berrien County, just like St. Joseph is primarily covered by the South Bend market which is in the Chicago viewing market.
August 10th, 2021 at 9:19 AM ^
Not true. When I had a BH ZIP, the tech who hooked us up put up on the MI coverage area. We had Fox 17, Grand Rapids stations, etc for a number of years. Then we had some problems and had to call customer service. They noticed that our address was on the wrong side of the BH ZIP and switched us to Chicago. We used to get the Lions on Fox and CBS.
August 5th, 2021 at 10:02 AM ^
That makes sense, but i'm still confused how Denver comes into play. Are KU games shown on local channels in Denver? Is that basically what this means?
August 5th, 2021 at 12:20 PM ^
Not exactly, it means that people in Denver get the exact same channel lineup as the people in Lawrence. So if Kansas is in the B10, Denver is part of the local market and BTN would be part of Denver's channel package regardless if they want it or not.
August 5th, 2021 at 12:51 PM ^
BTN is already part of many basic cable packages in the Denver area. Due to a lot of Nebraska grads living in Denver.
KU does have a local radio station that carries their games and the school has quite a few alums here --- but KU's presence is also less than that of Nebraska.
KU would be incremental for BTN coverage in KCMO & Wichita, but I doubt KU will be highly incremental as regards BTN coverage in Denver.
Right. But what such analysis usually fails to note is that it's also about the future. These markets, in time, will grow. A KS, MD, or Rutgers in the B10 means future eyeballs, solidified growth for those teams. As much discomfort as it may arouse here, an upstart Rutgers in the B1G title game would be very good for the league. Etcetera.
My problem is that I have a hard time conceptually overcoming the sense of discontinuity in adding a USC an additional thousand miles away.
That’s why it only makes sense if you add 4-5 Pac12 teams. Which would make a lot of sense and give the league a majority stake in the Western US.
Unlike most on this board I’ve actually been to a Jayhawk football game in Lawrence. Can’t remember the outcome. Bought two tickets 20 min before kickoff for ~$10 on the 35 yd line right near the band. Stadium was maybe 45% full at peak and emptying soon after half( the band was good!). This was on a perfect 72 deg September day. The campus is on a par w/ Ind. or NW - much nicer than Purdue. My $.02.
I think you forget a certain 500 lb coach who set records there as recently as 2007.
KC market would be attached, but I believe Nebraska promised the B1G they would bring that along with them.
It’s not really up to the schools which markets they bring, so idk how Nebraska could have promised that. The market either reaches the area of the school or it doesn’t.
August 5th, 2021 at 12:04 AM ^
If adding Kansas means adding USC, I'm on board with that.
Kansas still adds nothing though and if they are in B12 purgatory I can even see the BIG wanting them only for basketball (similar to ND for hockey).
Kansas adds the central time zone. Oh, my bad, so does Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, Indiana, Nebraska, did I forget anyone?
Northwestern
The majority of Indiana is in the Eastern Time Zone, to include IU and Purdue.
If adding Kansas does actually include the Denver market in addition to the KC market (and potentially St.Louis as well) then that’s actually a pretty significant boost. Would be Rutgers-lite but would benefit everyone financially
STL is already in the footprint. BTN has been here since it started.
I would assume Illinois brought that then.
FWIW, B10’s ADs are not in a rush to expand. The damage COVID did to their budgets was significant and they just don’t want to risk any dilution of their TV income, which is going to increase significantly very soon. Any potential increase in total income of the league from expansion has to be balanced against the increased expenses and dilution.
As with Texas and Oklahoma, the expansion and revenue sharing would not happen immediately. They should be working to get teams locked in before the good ones are taken, and they are left with the mediocre teams that the SEC or others don't want.
August 5th, 2021 at 12:51 PM ^
That is not the thinking among the ADs (at least the 2-3 that I have worked with in the past). Revenue sharing will not happen immediately but will happen. There are a small number of schools that would meet the presidents' requirements and would move the needle when it comes increases in net per school income. Many of them cannot move now and some would not be interested in joining the SEC. For many of the qualified candidates, BIG is in the driver seat.
August 5th, 2021 at 12:05 AM ^
Who was that OSU kid who claimed to have all the insider knowledge about whether or not every school was going to play during covid - Sir Yacht.
this has all the sir yacht vibes all over again.
cue time is a flat circle gif….
No kidding. Has the OP seen this?
https://rooster.substack.com/p/a-nugget-of-narcissism
OP, care to comment on that?
August 5th, 2021 at 10:01 AM ^
That was interesting.
August 5th, 2021 at 12:28 PM ^
Holy shit that was a fun read about Stickney.
August 5th, 2021 at 12:10 AM ^
If USC jumps to the Big, I could see UCLA, WA and OR jumping on board.
August 5th, 2021 at 12:35 PM ^
UCLA doesn't really bring anything to the party if you get USC. Washington brings the Seattle market and Oregon brings both Portland and Nike. Get those three and say Colorado which brings Denver and you've got something.
Basketball blueblood, nationally recognized brand, very good academic profile, sometimes very good in football, rival to USC -
IDK I would take them. Maybe they are redundant in terms of TV market. But I also just hate the idea that same motive then compels us to split up historic rivalries
August 5th, 2021 at 12:12 AM ^
If the USC cheerleaders are a part of the package count my vote.
They're nice-looking but generally overrated IMO. Presentation matters and they're very good at that.
I can still remember the Vince Young Rose Bowl game and how much better the Texas cheerleaders looked.
I did a presentation for NCAT (National center for asphalt technology) at Auburn University and I can tell you there were more beautiful women in that little town than any other place I've ever been.
On a side note sun dresses should be a thing up here lol
CONFIRMED. Live in AL, been to Auburn many times.
August 5th, 2021 at 10:45 AM ^
Creepy old guys talking about hot coeds is pretty gross.
August 5th, 2021 at 12:08 PM ^
I'm plenty creepy but not old.
August 5th, 2021 at 12:36 PM ^
a) you don't know how old they are
b) they didn't say anything bad or disrespectful
August 5th, 2021 at 12:17 AM ^
I wonder if the Big Ten would prefer Arizona St over Arizona, in part because it would also add another hockey program to the conference.
August 5th, 2021 at 12:23 AM ^
That's a great question. My quick guess is no from since it appears they are not members of the AAU.
August 5th, 2021 at 12:25 AM ^
ASU seems to have a strong wrestling program as well. I don’t know if they are traditionally strong, but recently they’ve been good.
ASU brings the Phoenix market, which hovers around #10. Denver is #17. I'm sure markets have significant B1G transplant populations. Neither compare to the LA market.
ASU also brings the coveted "Only Fans" market, as they seem to have a NIL lockdown on that revenue source.
August 5th, 2021 at 11:36 AM ^
Wouldn't UA also bring in the Phoenix market? (Don't know the answer. Just asking.) There have to be a lot of UA fans in Phoenix.
August 5th, 2021 at 12:17 AM ^
I’d love to bring in USC, UCLA, Cal, Stanford, Oregon, and Washington…if needed, add Colorado and Kansas to round it out. You’d cover most major media markets, have a coast-to-coast presence, and the matchups could be really fun. I’d love to watch UM play against any of those teams, and would happily trade some Illinois, Indiana , NW, Rutgers, and Maryland games to sub in the new teams…
the remaining Big 12 and PAC 12 teams merge to form a new “Mountain West”-like conference…
August 5th, 2021 at 12:17 AM ^
If USC goes, and it sounds like they will if there is any truth to this, then the PAC12 will cease to exist over time. They are the national brand, and lynch pin to the rest of the league.
Without USC, Oregon's brand diminishes in the same way that without Texas, Oklahoma's brand diminishes.
I think ultimately where we're headed is similar to the AFC/NFC dynamic in the NFL. Two major "conferences" or "federations" or whatever you want to call them. Pods of 4-6 schools will make up a division. Each conference will have 4-6 of those divisions. Teams will play their divisional foes every year, and then divisions will draw another division within their conference on rotation. The remaining game slots on the calendar (1-3 games) will basically serve as the current version of non-conference game scheduling where the schools are free to negotiate their opponents.
As this thing goes on, the B1G would be wise to start recruiting the ACC and PAC12 for the biggest "brands" they can recruit so the SEC doesn't end up running the whole deal.
August 5th, 2021 at 11:11 AM ^
I agree if USC really is going to leave the PAC that's easily the #1 story here. There is no way they would go to the collapsing Big 12, so would they go Big 10, ACC / SEC? Based on history and fit you would think the Big 10 would be in the lead, but who knows in these crazy times.