Beilien Revised Ceiling??
I think we need to dust off Brian's post on how Beilein won't be able to recruit top talent to AA. If we get Zeigler that would be 3 guys in the Top 100. That's pretty good isn't it?? These 2 guys are just what we need to replace Manny and Deshawn next year, a big scorer and a slasher with some athleticism.
Honest question, who are the other two?
I looked on Rivals and they have nobody in the top 100 going blue...
ESPN has Smotycrz and Hardaway in the top 100. Neither Rivals nor Scout are as bullish.
We are required as fans to only believe the best review of our prospective talent right?? ESPN has the best rankings period!!! Scout blows.......well they do this week. ESPN loves Smo and Hardaway.
I cannot navigate the ESPN site...
I tried looking for a college basketball recruiting site... that ESPN home page is mighty busy.
Maybe you need to be an "Insider"
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/espnu100
FWIW Scout actually has Smotrycz at #91 and Rivals has him at #113. Rivals was the last to really see him and I think he will be in their top 100 in the next update. It's pretty fair to say at this point that Smotrycz is a top 100 recruit. Hardaway is another story. Only ESPN has him as a top 100 kid right now.
They have upgraded Smotrcyz after all his camp work.
I think he might be speaking scout
How good is Darius Morris supposed to be?
Balas said Morris looked legit before getting hurt this weekend.
If they can get Zeigler then this would be a very solid class.
That's about as vague as a question can get, but I'll say Gary Grant.
How's this lineup look in 2011
PG Morris,LLP
SG Douglas, Vogrich, Hardaway
SF Novak, Zeigler
PF Smotryz
C Cronin
How about McLimans and Jordan Morgan? They will add depth at the 4/5 spots, plus I'm not sold on Cronin yet.
Tried to stay away from anybody not with a decent rank as I might get a "he blows he's a 2 star"
Fair enough, but both of those guys I mentioned were 3 stars, ranked as high as Cronin. So why did you include him?
More Hype I guess. This thread has lost where I wanted it to go. I'm not arguing if a guy is in the top 100 or not. I just noticed Beilein is starting to pull in higher rated kids and combined with his coaching I think Big 10 titles are possible in the future if these kids live up to their billing. A couple of months ago people were excited but said we won't get top recruits so we can only hope for top 3 in the Big 10 and a Sweet 16 run. A Prather/Ziegler commit make this class much higher than people thought Beilien could do even if you put Smo and Hardaway at 140 instead of or 70-90.
Cronin will be good imo. Not sure he can stay healthy, if he does he is a difference maker, very very long.
Sam Webb tends to think that this guy is the real deal. He noted that during their elite camp this year that there was a noticable drop off in guard play when Morris went out. He said that he has a command of the game and an uncanny knack for putting the ball in the right person's hands. He thinks that this guy is a definite upgrade in talent from what we are accustom to.
power forward. He will have to beef up significantly if that is where he is going to play.
Novak was our power forward last year, I think he'll be fine. Is Dirk Nowitczky big enough?? I don't think you'll see the traditional bruiser at the 4 at Michigan. I'm sticking with Smo at the 4.
shouldn't take everything brian says as gospel
Heretic!
I know its been awhile since I wrote a Hoops Diary, so maybe everyone has forgotten.
There is no ceiling with John Beilien.
He can coach, he can spot talent, he can recruit and he's finally doing all of this at a true destination school.
We will have a fun 10 years of college hoops. Book It!
+1
No one knows.
But he has been mentioning "Final Fours" and "National Championships" when speaking about goals for the program recently.
Anyway, back to the original point, as I had sort of half-ass written at the WLA, I think Brian undersold Beilein's ceiling. We were on the verge of getting a second top recruit last year in addition to Morris (Lubick) before Beilein even had success. He took a team that essentially had a rotation of 2 legit major conference starters (Sims and Harris), legit major conference roll players (Lucas-Perry, Grady), 2 walk-ons (Lee, Merritt), and a poo-poo platter of MAC level talent (Gibson, Douglass, Novak, Wright, Shepard) and won 20 games with them, and beat a top-5 team. Michigan, in his tenure, will not have as little talent again as they did last year - ever. By the time this class matures, I think we're looking at a Wisconsin-level program - one that regularly challenges for the Big 10 title and perrenially stays in the top-25.
The Michigan name helped coach Rod improve his recruiting. I'm sure it will also help John B and the basketball program. He's already turned things around in only two years so now it's only a matter of time.
beilein will ever match msu's talent cause of recruiting. when he retires i plan to be a frequent big dance competitor but not a final four competitor when we fet to this we should hire someone who can also recruit and win
Are you paying attention? We have an extremely feasible chance of getting 2 consensus top-100 recruits in a 3-man class. How does this imply he can't recruit?
I love it when the Internet echo chamber overwhelms facts.
If we had John Calipari we could have the top 5 recruits every year.
A 5 top tier recruiting violations once he leaves.
Beilein has an advantage that RR had a few years ago; he is using a system that teams don't run into very often. This is like being a southpaw boxer or a pitcher with a grossly unique spin on the ball; you can get hot and win a tournament here and there if nobody is able to "decode" your scheme.
I think Beilein needs less talent to make the Final Four than a lot of coaches, including the one in EL, do.
Eh, I'll believe in a ceiling change when I see it. There have been plenty of recruits who have washed out, and while I'm not implying that it's super likely in the case of this recruiting class, you never know. M-Basketball has a long way to go, it seems a bit early to be pumping the expectations any higher than they are already.
if we keep on winning and keep winning a game or two in the tourney at least two more years, the big name recruits in michigan will take notice. Every few years there is a five star or two and we are bound to get one if we just keep winning. If we can get just one big name player there is a good chance at going deep into the tourney, maybe even a championship? This will give us national relevance and kids will want to come play for us, just like recruits want to play for Calipari. This will allow Beiline to recruit the best kids for his system, possibly giving us near top recruiting classes.
I don't think Beilein's class this year is going to disprove that post. Though Hardaway is in the top 100 at ESPN, he's not at Rivals or Scout and his other offers were from K State and Minnesota. He's a respectable recruit but not that much different from a Vogrich, or... you know, Kelvin Grady, who was at the tail end of the top 100 IIRC.
Meanwhile, Smotrycz looks to be moving up but that wasn't exactly a heated recruiting battle. Kudos to Beilein for swooping in early, but the point of the post was he's not likely to go head to head against State and other powers and win a lot of battles without some advantages like he's got right now with Zeigler: Michigan's advantage is Keith Appling.
I don't think this class, or future classes, are likely to be the sort of things to turn Michigan into one of the Big Ten's acknowledged power programs. I think we're headed for a program like Wisconsin's football team was under Alvarez, consistently good and even a (co-) conference champ every once in a while but clearly not expanding the Big Two into a Big Three. (Big Ten basketball's obviously more wide open than football.)
K. State and Minnesota both have top 25 recruiting classes in 2009. http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=961334#rank
"Meanwhile, Smotrycz looks to be moving up but that wasn't exactly a heated recruiting battle."
So he found a player off everyone's radar that is now blowing up and there is something there to nitpick? "Yeah man, that girl I picked up last night was smoking and was amazing in bed, too bad I didn't have to fight off other guys for her."
"he's not likely to go head to head against State and other powers and win a lot of battles without some advantages like he's got right now with Zeigler: Michigan's advantage is Keith Appling."
You are familiar with recruiting yes? This is how basketball recruiting works unless you're cutting deals with AAU coaches or at a KU, Duke, UNC type school. So if we land Zeigler, it's only because Appling is already at State. Got it. Shouldn't we wait until the practice facility is done and the 2011 class is fought out before we bury Belien's ability to recruit?
"I don't think this class, or future classes, are likely to be the sort of things to turn Michigan into one of the Big Ten's acknowledged power programs."
Winning makes you a power program. If recruiting made you a power program then Charlie Weis would have multiple MNCs. Amaker was a great recruiter though amirite? Also, comparing Wisky football to Michigan bball is incredibly stupid. Alvarez had no shot at getting the level of talent to Wisky that Belien has a shot at getting to Michigan.
I just don't fucking get it. He pulls in Darius Morris (4*) after a 10-22 debacle. Then wins a 1st round tourney game with a rotate a walk-on PG and no one taller than 6'8" and lands Smotryxzzxzx (4*) Hardaway (3.5*) and leads for Zeigler (4*). So let me make sure I'm understanding this correctly. We have a coach that has won everywhere he has been. He pulls Michigan out of the dark ages in basketball and makes us relevant again, with a team of castoffs that went 10-22 the year before. His recruiting classes have been steadily improving. Badly needed facility upgrades are due in 2011.
Now, in light of everything above, can someone please explain to me why everyone is so goddamn eager to put a cap on Belien's potential and doubt he can ever be really successful? Try to enjoy the fucking journey instead of worrying about the destination.
In regards to Beilein recruiting Smotcryz before people knew he was a top 100 player. In the interview that you just recently posted Beilein eludes to evaluting talent over rated players. If he has a knack for this and if we put a strong showing in the bank for next year, I think it can open up recruiting for us. Let's just put it this way, I am encouraged by what I have seen. Beilein (imho) was the right pick up for Michigan. He may not,as you say, put us back on one of the top rungs in the big ten, but he is sure building a pretty sturdy ladder for us to stand on and climb.