B1G "rules" that were set before this season started
Good morning,
This thread will most likely get blasted, but I thought that this is pertinent information that many here are missing after the decision on the B1G Championship yesterday. Many fans here have said the B1G got it right, which the overwhelming majority of people know to be the case. But there are plenty screaming about "rules" and that Indiana got screwed out of something. Well....
First of all, this is just a reminder that had UM beat OSU on Saturday, OSU would be in the conference championship. How can you legitimately argue that a team OSU beat should be in over them, when OSU literally could have mailed it in and lost the game that was cancelled? That makes zero sense, and is the bulk of why the B1G changed course. And speaking of changing course...
I think people are forgetting what was talked about when this season was reinstated. I have a link below, there are a million articles about this from when Warren announced the season was happening. Under no circumstances did they come out and say here are the rules, we will stick to them through the season regardless of what comes our way. I've provided the quote that is in every one of these articles front and center, they knew they couldn't set rules at the beginning and ride it out, these were guidelines subject to change.
For those who chose to listen instead of rendering instant judgment on Big Ten commissioner Kevin Warren, he put it out there in the simplest of terms Wednesday: The decision to bring back football for the fall season comes with one all-important standard.
"The biggest thing is we all have to realize that this is a fluid situation," Warren said. "This is also a situation that we need to adapt to in the world we live in today.
"Fluid"--this was a very important word coming into this season. The B1G decision makers are the AD's, chancellors, and presidents of the individual schools. They knew as the season went on and the pandmic shifted, that they were going to have to be flexible. So I think it's time to stop the whining.
Link:
December 10th, 2020 at 7:46 AM ^
ohio troll preaching to us about 'rules'? bwahahaha.
December 10th, 2020 at 7:47 AM ^
I don't troll, I post realistic takes that people don't like to hear, and the general response is TROLL! Like that's ever winning an argument. Counter the points I made and let's have a discussion. If not, scream names and make yourself feel like you won.
December 10th, 2020 at 7:58 AM ^
What is this post about exactly? Who is whining, and if they are it might just be the rivalry speaking, but I'm here to tell you, and I speak for the whole board, we don't give a shit. Once Michigan was eliminated we were all about "lets get this thing fixed".
December 10th, 2020 at 8:03 AM ^
The post is about the multiple 100+ comment threads about what went down yesterday and the split between UM fans saying this was the right thing to do and the other half saying, BUT THE RULES!!!
This was to bring to light that the rules that were set were set to be changed. I didn't even mention the fact that if they stuck with a ruling the season wouldn't have been played. Everything has been changing all year due to this pandemic, the term "fluid" when the season was re-instated seems to be forgotten by some.
And yes, if OSU was in the same position as UM, I'd be saying the same thing as you, let's worry about ourselves and get this fixed.
December 10th, 2020 at 12:10 PM ^
It's not even close to half and half though. And that's the problem with your whole post. The vast majority of Michigan fans know that the 6 game rule was arbitrary to begin with and don't care that they changed the rule. Far fewer care than if the tables were turned in fact.
You're doing what is so loathsome and divisive these days. You read a couple posts on the internet, decided you'd tell yourself those opinions represent "half" of some population and then got all crazy about that because you can't / refuse to put anything into context.
You're picking a fight where there isn't one. Instigating for the mere sake of it. Definition of trolling. GTFO
December 10th, 2020 at 8:04 AM ^
you frequently troll and this is a totally unnecessary post, basically scolding any michigan fan who might think differently than you do on this issue. not your best effort.
and if it makes any difference, i actually think ohio should get a shot at playing, as much as it pains me to write that.
December 10th, 2020 at 8:35 AM ^
If I have come off that way to you, my bad. I have had a lot of good conversations on here, many posters on here are very knowledgeable and level headed. I tend to try and disprove asinine comments and once there is no legitimate rebuttal and it goes to name calling, I stop. You guys have a lot of "trolls" on this website, a lot of UM fans included. I'll try better to not come off as one of them. I've been on this site for 2 years, but have actually been reading the blog for a long time as there is a lot of good football information here. Including about OSU and other teams in the B1G.
December 10th, 2020 at 8:56 AM ^
I will take your response as a genuine apology, and give it due credit. Opposing fans are welcome here, as you well know, but particularly with them the tone of any post is important .
December 10th, 2020 at 1:04 PM ^
Please return to 11W with this nonsense. You got the desired outcome. Why do you care what anyone else thinks,especially here? Did you post this on the IU fan website also?
December 10th, 2020 at 8:07 AM ^
You have been trolling since the day you joined.
December 10th, 2020 at 8:27 AM ^
Trolling is his job.
December 10th, 2020 at 8:12 AM ^
Your posting history shows you've made this same point eight times in various threads this week. Apparently those eight comments were not enough to satisfy you and you just couldn't resist creating a new thread once you stumbled on that Warren quote. Will the attention you get on this thread be enough to satisfy you or can we look forward to more of this type of amazing information leading up to the BIG championship game?
December 10th, 2020 at 9:24 AM ^
You make a legitimate point about the fluid situation.
However —
• Many others have made that point
• You pose yourself as "realistic," standing against trolls, those who "don't like to hear" the truth, and screamers.
That's not simply a matter of tone, as I believe you mention elsewhere, but an apparent sense that you have truth, while the rest of us / or half of us "CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!" That stance isn't conducive to the discussion you claim to seek.
You might consider getting off, as your label claims, your own h....
December 10th, 2020 at 10:13 AM ^
we did the discussion yesterday though
December 10th, 2020 at 7:46 AM ^
I think you are going to get blasted, because OSU. But, I agree with you and honestly I'm glad that we don't have to get blasted on Saturday. I don't care who plays for the B1G Championship if it isn't Michigan anyways.
December 10th, 2020 at 7:56 AM ^
I'm ok with it, I put the information out there, if people want to bury their heads and shout loud noises, go for it. They can let me know how far that gets them in life. I waited to post this after reading through the threads and seeing that there are a lot of UM fans on here that were very level headed about this whole thing, and are able to take the rose colored glasses off for a minute to see that this is what made the most sense based off of what happened on the field, and what is best for the conference.
December 10th, 2020 at 8:05 AM ^
I think you're going to get blasted not because you're right or wrong - I happen to believe you are right - but because of the sanctimonious tone of your post. My recommendation would be to Get Off Your High Horse when you post.
December 10th, 2020 at 8:23 AM ^
Maybe you are correct, but outside of saying "stop the whining" which could have been a bit overzealous after reading some of the ridiculous stuff out there last night (not just talking about here). If my tone was off, I'm sorry. I'm just trying to bring to light that the rules were set early on knowing they were going to have to be tweaked and changed for those that may not see through their fandom to realize that it was in the best interest of everyone, including Michigan.
December 10th, 2020 at 12:33 PM ^
Changing the rules at the end of the season to change the outcome which punishes another team is simply bullshit. Indiana played a full schedule. Playing a full schedule risks upsets, injury, and attrition.
December 10th, 2020 at 8:10 AM ^
It's possible to a) be annoyed because there were rules put in place at the beginning of the season that are now being ignored because it's convenient, b) be annoyed that OSU is benefitting and c) realize that OSU is obviously the best team in the conference and them making the championship game isn't some conspiracy to undermine the holiday cheer of Michigan fans.
If they weren't prepared to enforce the rules, then I don't know why they put them in place to begin with. I'm not going to lose sleep over the best team in the conference being crowned as such, though.
December 10th, 2020 at 8:25 AM ^
I've considered this. And the best response I can come up with is everyone thought they set "rules" but with the term "fluid" being applied, they more or less set "guidelines".
December 10th, 2020 at 8:40 AM ^
They set a specific number of games that teams needed to play to qualify, but ok.
December 10th, 2020 at 8:51 AM ^
You don't get it, dude. When you say a team has to play a certain number of games to qualify for something, then the team doesn't and qualifies for that something anyway, that's changing the rules because you were hoping for a different outcome.
It's what Drumpf is trying to do to the election process.
And the reason you are getting negbanged is because this response:
And the best response I can come up with is everyone thought they set "rules" but with the term "fluid" being applied, they more or less set "guidelines".
...is fucking dumb. Rules and guidelines should both be followed, even if it means MSU plays for the B1G title. This year sucks, the end.
December 10th, 2020 at 9:02 AM ^
...the Ohio State motto.
December 10th, 2020 at 11:07 AM ^
Politics....just no need.
December 10th, 2020 at 8:13 AM ^
"just a reminder that had UM beat OSU on Saturday, OSU would be in the conference championship"
This weekend's Michigan game was probably the least likely loss of the three games OSU didn't play. I really don't care who plays in the championship game if Michigan is not in but Indiana up till this coming weekend played all their games so we know the results. If you're going to include OSU it should be the top four B1G teams as it is clear who they are - OSU, Indiana, Iowa and NW - especially, if you are going to change the initial rules. Play with those four over the next three weeks and end this shit show season for everyone else.
December 10th, 2020 at 8:21 AM ^
In theory I really like this idea. I'm not even all about the playoff this year because it's kind of a whatever year. Had they come out of the meeting yesterday and said, we have agreed to let the top four teams play a small playoff and all teams have agreed to skip bowl season, I'd be on board. There is a reason I and may others like B1G football season more than any other, most of us grew up with it and enjoy every Saturday during the fall. If they had a COVID playoff within the conference, I'd support it.
December 10th, 2020 at 8:35 AM ^
At this rate you will have negative points by the end of the day.
December 10th, 2020 at 8:23 AM ^
I think Doug Skene nailed this.
They want OSU in there because they want the higher visibility and the money. Especially when the B1G is bleeding out financially.
December 10th, 2020 at 8:40 AM ^
There is rationale to doing that as a practical matter of course... but this just seems like a major slap in the face to teams such as Indiana.
"We at the Big Ten HQ are sorry that, while you have met all the requirements to represent the East Division in the championship game, we do not feel that our CFP chances are strong enough. We are therefore changing the rules at this late juncture to put a different team in your place. Kudos on your season, though. We are certain you will have another chance to play for the championship again very soon."
It would not have surprised me for the Big Ten to pull this if osu had been 4-0 at this point either (which almost happened as well).
December 10th, 2020 at 9:31 AM ^
Is stating the obvious now considered analysis? Geesh!
December 10th, 2020 at 8:40 AM ^
I guess I would have preferred a little more foresight from the rules committee. If teams were eligible to play per the B1G protocols that every Uni President and AD agreed to in September then they should have been expected to play in Oct, Nov, and Dec. If they chose to not play out of an abundance of caution (Putting the health and safety of their student athletes and coaches first is admirable in my opinion) then they should have had to take a forfeit.
December 10th, 2020 at 8:54 AM ^
"classes is pointless, we ain't come here to play school"
December 10th, 2020 at 8:55 AM ^
Look it all comes back to this: the big 10 wanted the season to start in January and didn’t have the politesse to convince the other 3 major conferences to do that. So rather than live in the reality that the season was going to be played in the fall and do what other leagues did and try to get as many games played in the late summer/fall before we hit this period now where cases and deaths are skyrocketing, they did the opposite and ensured the entire season would be played in the middle of the biggest outbreak with no room to reschedule anything.
everything else as far as rule changes and what not goes back to that: the big 10s plan for Covid was nonsensical and poorly executed and put every big 10 member in a bad position.
December 10th, 2020 at 9:23 AM ^
I think we need to question why it took 5 1/2 weeks from the decision to return (Sep 16) to the first games (Oct 23/24).
If they started playing the first or second weekend in October it would have built in some buffer for potential make up games in December if needed before championship weekend.
I don't buy a logistics argument anymore since BYU and Coastal Carolina pulled off a game in 60 hours.
December 10th, 2020 at 9:35 AM ^
That's where I had a problem with how they rolled the season out. They pushed the games way too far back. Think about what was happening this summer. The numbers had leveled off (I still think artificially due to people being able to be outdoors) with COVID. They pushed the season into the bad weather part of fall. And somehow, with cases and numbers skyrocketing, they are ok with college basketball players playing indoors against a plethora of teams from all over the country and other conferences. This is what doesn't make sense to me the most. Our numbers are worse right now than they have ever been, and we are watching B1G basketball.
I'm also not a scientist, doctor, or anything remotely close so I don't know why these decisions are being made outside of they increased data and information on how the virus manifests itself and spreads. So maybe there is something I'm missing, but not playing football in September while playing basketball in December seems like a completely back-asswards decision.
December 10th, 2020 at 8:56 AM ^
I think this fanbase is way too concerned about things that don’t concern us.
December 10th, 2020 at 9:05 AM ^
I think all fans in the Big Ten (not just our own) should be concerned about the ways, methods, and motivations of the conference leadership.
Judging by the data from the last several years... very concerned.
December 10th, 2020 at 9:24 AM ^
Until someone de-thrones OSU then they will always be the favored child.
December 10th, 2020 at 9:42 AM ^
Then maybe it's time to change the system so that no one gets "favored" status.
December 10th, 2020 at 11:04 AM ^
Good luck with that. Money rules every decision and ensuring the B1G gets a representative into the CFP for the revenue boost is the primary goal of the organization.
If you want to watch college athletics that is purely about love of the game then you need to go find a DIII program to follow.
December 10th, 2020 at 11:45 AM ^
While I do believe that the system (top to bottom) should be changed so that it is more about the game than the money, that is not what I was advocating here.
I was saying let's change the system *in the Big Ten* such that those with "favorite" status *such as OSU (and previously UM)* no longer have that status. I would be in favor of a system where all 14 schools actually get equal influence.. it amazes me how quickly the ADs screwed over Indiana just to ensure the conference gets the CFP money (which was likely to happen anyway... osu was highly unlikely to get snubbed going 6-0 after championship week, regardless if they were actually in the Big Ten championship game or a crossover game).
December 10th, 2020 at 8:59 AM ^
Theoretically speaking, if Wisconsin had only been able to play 3 games but won all three games and there was no other undefeated team in the Big 10 West, do we think the BIG 10 would have removed the 6 game requirement?
December 10th, 2020 at 9:07 AM ^
Wisconsin wasn't in the top 4 AP ranking (and later CFP) with no wins... and still later despite having a relatively weak resume.
December 10th, 2020 at 9:34 AM ^
Read much? The premise was; IF Wisconsin was undefeated...
December 10th, 2020 at 9:45 AM ^
Even if Wisc had stayed undefeated, they wouldn't have been as high - which was my point.
No need to be an ass.
December 10th, 2020 at 9:01 AM ^
I can agree that OSU is a better team than Indiana, and that they will surely get a CFP invite once beating whoever they play in the crossover game. Them being in a B1G 'CG' is irrelevant - they don't need that to get invited over a team they beat, regardless of who might get labeled as 'champion'. There is no way the CFP committee would not include an undefeated OSU.
So what, exactly, did IU get fucked over for? They were never going to get a CFP bid - (undefeated) OSU is the only team that will get that bid from the CFP, B1G Champs or not. Money-wise, having IU or OSU in the B1G CG doesn't matter; nor does it matter from the CFP view because OSU was always going to get that bid.
Setting rules, and then abiding by them, is how you gain respect and integrity. But, yeah, those ideals are anathema to the NCAA and it's conferences.
BTW, you sound like SCOTUS with your bullshit textual perspective of 'fluid'. Fuck off.
December 10th, 2020 at 9:09 AM ^
Was going to upvote this until you made it political.