Aria Gerson: Their scandal is not your rivalry
https://www.michigandaily.com/section/football/aria-gerson-their-scandal-not-your-rivalry
Michigan Daily article on how fans weaponize scandals as rivalry trash talk fodder.
November 27th, 2019 at 1:20 PM ^
The majority of people know this. And those who don't aren't listening to this rehotoric, it's hard to change ignorance and stupidity.
November 27th, 2019 at 1:26 PM ^
Huh, same could be said for other phenomena that are happening in the country right now.
November 27th, 2019 at 1:28 PM ^
The (Failing) Michigan Daily is FAKE NEWS. Sad!
November 27th, 2019 at 1:34 PM ^
Right --- +1.
Honestly, you mostly see the "weaponization" online anyway.
Although I'll see "Ped State" written quite frequently online, I've never once heard that phrase in public. And that's over the course of 2 dozen+ non-PSU home games in the 2012-2019 time span. A large sample size.
November 27th, 2019 at 2:57 PM ^
You're confusing weaponizing scandal with people being outraged -- rightfully so -- at the lack of accountability, the lack of justice, the lack of support for the victims, and the victim appropriation perpetuated by a sick, cult of personality, JoePa worshiping fanbase.
In the case of PSU, it was institutional and community-enabled for decades. Which is hardly a cogent apples-to-apples comparison to something like weaponizing Glenn Winston going from a jail cell to the practice field in the same day just because we dislike Staee.
If you think your sample size of non-home football games and frequency (or lack thereof) of comments is relevant, you're just as delusional as the rest of people who identify with PSU.
It's not weaponizing as you conveniently twist the Daily's article to make your point... it's called being a decent human being... which means standing up for those who cannot defend themselves. Perhaps when you have to take care of someone elderly one day or when you have your own children, you'll understand that.
November 27th, 2019 at 3:16 PM ^
If you had stopped at 3 paragraphs ........
But your last paragraph proves the point about the existence of folk who "say stuff online that they wouldn't say in person." My Dad had Alzheimer's from 2007-2014 and that was hard as hell for my Mom and I in care-taking.
Happy Thanksgiving.
November 27th, 2019 at 3:21 PM ^
I'd say that to you in person; your posting history when all this went down proves you're one of the people I'm talking about.
But thanks for generalizing.
Troll on.
November 27th, 2019 at 3:28 PM ^
OK, now I'm actually interested in continuing this discussion. I have a question for you.
I joined here on December 4, 2012.
What "alias" was I posting under, considering that "everything went down" in the November 2011 - July 2012 period?
November 27th, 2019 at 5:07 PM ^
I would argue most people don't know this. Certainly not most men who (mostly) haven't been assaulted or had their experiences minimized and normalized and certainly don't talk about it with their guy friends. I didn't know this growing up. None of my guy friends knew this (scores of which were male friends at Michigan, at my church, etc).
That's why these jokes are so common and why this stuff is mostly ignored as "just a joke". Most people don't realize that these "jokes" contribute to a culture of minimizing the victims and normalizing the offense.
I don't think anyone means any harm by the jokes, but they also don't realize the harm they're doing. There are those (many) who won't listen, but there are also many who will listen and rethink some of the things they do or say like I did when I actually took the time to truly listen to my sisters and female friends, etc.
November 27th, 2019 at 1:29 PM ^
Thanks but I'm going to keep pointing out our rivals' scandals, as they highlight their willingness to accept evil people in exchange for fleeting athletic successes.
November 27th, 2019 at 1:40 PM ^
This notion also does have merit. I think it's the "joking" about the scandals that doesn't account for the victims, being the type of trash talking implied.
November 27th, 2019 at 1:41 PM ^
“Fleeting”
I wish.
November 27th, 2019 at 1:57 PM ^
Your mistake is in thinking it would be different at Michigan. It is a societal problem and happens in every type of organization from athletic departments to corprorations to non-profits, to entertainment etc.
November 27th, 2019 at 2:01 PM ^
Has it happened at Michigan?
November 27th, 2019 at 2:08 PM ^
Do you know, with 100.00000000000000000% certainty, it is not happening at Michigan?
I mean, if a time traveler visited me on January 1st, 2011 and said --- "later this year, Joe Paterno will be fired from his job as football coach due to his role in covering up sexual abuse at Penn State" --- I would have put the odds on that happening at "highly improbable, to say the least."
And those odds are despite me being far from a Joe Paterno worshiper. I recognized his faults for years, well before 2011. A story like that just seemed - well, rather hard to fathom.
Yet, of course, it did happen.
It's good to have a level of pride in one's company, University, religion, parish, institution, et cetera. But don't self-identify with it too much. Unfortunately, they can disappoint you, even to no fault of your own.
November 27th, 2019 at 2:19 PM ^
If it has happened or is happening now and comes to light, the Michigan fan base will demand that heads roll. We'll take our NCAA punishment and move on.
Our hypothetical reaction will in no way resemble the horrid reaction by Paterno fans.
November 27th, 2019 at 2:32 PM ^
As you said, hypothetical. Neither of us know with 100.00000% certainty.
I respect U-M as an institution and I respect the football team and I respect U-M fans.
But I do think your opinion is hubris.
November 27th, 2019 at 2:37 PM ^
You realize the above situation of people rallying against horrible behavior literally happened when hundreds protested on the university president’s lawn after the Shane Morrison concussion scandal, right?
November 27th, 2019 at 3:08 PM ^
I do realize that, yes. Brady Hoke didn't have situational awareness during the game, and then Dave Brandon blatantly lied --- and at least for Brandon, that was definitely a fireable offense.
Now, if you want to think "that situation proves that we are rather unique, we handle situations better than most other institutions do", fair enough - that is your right.
But I do agree with ak47 above, these things are more societal. It is also fair to point out Hoke & Brandon were already unpopular prior, so it's not complete apples-to-apples.
November 27th, 2019 at 6:06 PM ^
Yeah, Brady Hoke was losing on the field and was an easy target. Also hundreds of people do not make a fanbase.
MSU had hundreds, maybe even thousands of people outraged at the Nassar scandal, protesting the board, etc.
But it's likely that was simply a vocal minority, because most of those board members were not voted out (I believe). Sparty Nation hasn't been vocal enough to make real change.
November 27th, 2019 at 3:17 PM ^
Another by way of comparison, is the average M fan doesn't wax poetically about Brandon Gibbons being the Sugar Bowl hero.
In Happy Valley though, the fanbase threatens to put up 2 statues (one of them being a travel statue for away games) after the first one gets taken down and the other varsity teams (including non-revenue sports) start wearing "409" patches.
November 27th, 2019 at 10:48 PM ^
If Brady hoke had a championship winning team nobody would have done shit
November 27th, 2019 at 5:01 PM ^
No, my assessment of our collective reaction to something similar going on at Michigan is spot on. The knives would be out. We wouldn't start a riot and overturn a news vehicle in protest of a coach being fired for covering up sexual abuse.
No, we'd have protests in Ann Arbor demanding people be fired for engaging in the same behavior that happened in State College, Columbus, or East Lansing. On line protests would be vicious and people who donate to the university would be walking back pledges.
That is truth.
November 27th, 2019 at 5:29 PM ^
Fair enough. You call your post truth, and I call your post an opinion. I don't know how it can't be the latter given it's hypothetical - but fair enough.
We simply fundamentally disagree, nothing wrong with that.
November 27th, 2019 at 2:19 PM ^
Do you know with 100% certainty that an Angel isn't dancing on the point of a pin right now? Let's deal in reality (tough for your crowd, I get it), and not in absurdly attempting to prove negatives.
Also, maybe sit this discussion out.
November 27th, 2019 at 2:43 PM ^
I wasn't trying to prove negatives. But you don't know what is going on with other folk with 100.000% certainty.
Thinking that one does - I don't think that's wise.
I fully agree with ak47 when he said this sort of thing is more societal and a danger to ALL institutions.
But fair enough - I won't respond to you further.
November 27th, 2019 at 3:39 PM ^
You were still using a logical fallacy to make your point. I could easily come back at you with "Are you 100% sure PSU coaches and AD aren't still turning a blind eye to sexual abuse of kids?" Which seems more probable at this point?
Let's stick with reality, which is bad enough.
November 27th, 2019 at 3:46 PM ^
Sure you could come back to me with that question.
And I'd answer it. I am NOT 100% sure. There is no other answer that I can logically give.
The question I posed was directed not at this community at large, but more to that one poster. And I did notice he (1) didn't answer that question, and (2) told me to get lost. Fair enough, that is his right.
November 27th, 2019 at 2:20 PM ^
You are generally a sensible poster. So I am surprised by your question. The point is not whether it is happening at Michigan. It is how one reacts. I don't believe PSU learned it's lesson. One of his sons is still linked to the program.
November 27th, 2019 at 2:56 PM ^
To your last sentence: Jay Paterno isn't associated with PSU football - hasn't been for years. Scott never has been. Neither of them are JoePa either - they are not criminals and they are their own persons.
To your other question - yes, it is in how one reacts. Of course, I can only control my own reaction.
So, U-M has literally hundreds of thousands of alumni, benefactors, fans, et cetera.
While I DO think the U-M Board of Regents would act generally well in the face of a scandal, it is impossible that amongst the hundreds of thousands of folks above that you won't have a collection of dumb-asses, idol worshipers, fools, people looking to cover their own butts, and other like-minded people.
Unfortunately, good U-M folk would have those loud-mouth folk out there, and then there would be other people that would then be saying that the fools represent all of you.
(I don't think the PSU BoT was perfect from 2011-2012, but I thought they generally did a good job then.)
November 27th, 2019 at 2:18 PM ^
Sure did...and when it came to light it led to the simultaneous rise of Michigan State basketball and decline of Michigan basketball until Beilein turned the program around.
November 27th, 2019 at 2:18 PM ^
It is not that things don't happen. It is how it will be handled. The last major scandal we had, we took down banners and our basketball team went in a hole. I am not sure what your point is.
November 27th, 2019 at 2:20 PM ^
We also didn't erect a statue of the chief enabler.
November 27th, 2019 at 2:20 PM ^
But also let's not equate Ed Martin and Jerry Sandusky.
Look how we handled Ed Martin.
Look how they handled Jerry Sandusky.
That's all you need to know.
November 27th, 2019 at 2:25 PM ^
did UM kill ed martin?
/s
November 27th, 2019 at 3:28 PM ^
You didn’t state that the scandal had to involve a pedophile.
November 27th, 2019 at 1:59 PM ^
Define “fleeting” ? The past 18 years has seemed like a long ass time.
November 27th, 2019 at 6:13 PM ^
Well said. If anything we are empathizing with their victims and pointing out what a fucked up situation it truly is.
November 27th, 2019 at 1:36 PM ^
I’m going to go ahead and say it’s more than ok to bash our rival universities for employing pedophiles and rapists. I think it’s bullshit to suggest otherwise. You aren’t “woke” because you separate sports from scandal. I will not send my daughters to MSU or PSU, just on principal.
November 27th, 2019 at 2:31 PM ^
Yeah my line of thinking is that if you separate the scandal, program, and school you're ignoring how these kind of tragic events occur.
While the sign is definitely off color, I don't think it does anything to diminish the victims.
Lastly, I disagree with equating the Nassar with the Gibbons scandals. While the AD's handling of the Gibbons expulsion left much to be desired, the crimes and coverups were orders of magnitude different.
November 27th, 2019 at 3:18 PM ^
You won't send your daughters? I hope you don't have a son that you're totally fine with being a rapist.
November 27th, 2019 at 4:00 PM ^
What the hell would even prompt you to say that!? I have three daughters and I if I had a son, he sure has hell wouldn’t be given the green light to do whatever he wanted. For now, I’ll settle for talking to my nephews about this. You are an asshole man because that’s a messed up thing to say, period.
November 27th, 2019 at 5:26 PM ^
Clearly Scottie doesn't know.
November 27th, 2019 at 1:44 PM ^
I don't give a shit what Ariana Grande says about football
November 27th, 2019 at 1:47 PM ^
Young people don't know what they're talking about to be honest. You have to earn it through life experience.
November 27th, 2019 at 1:57 PM ^
Nobody knows what they are talking about, experience teaches you to shut the fuck up most of the time.
Youth is believing you know what you're talking about, knowledge is realizing you have no clue.
November 27th, 2019 at 2:23 PM ^
Ok boomer.
November 27th, 2019 at 2:28 PM ^
Sooner!
November 27th, 2019 at 2:40 PM ^
I've seen this expression a lot lately. Must be a thing.
As a Gen X, I think it's funny to watch one spoiled generation (boomers) harangue another spoiled generation (Gen Y/Z) about being spoiled.
November 27th, 2019 at 2:54 PM ^
Tell me more about how only you had it hard.