Before anyone goes crazy about Beilein and recruiting...
So, it appears that we lost out on the Zeigler sweepstakes, but before another thread pops up asking why John Beilein hates recruiting 5 stars, or other nonsense, I thought it would be good to show just how well basketball recruiting has been going for Michigan.
This year's class, thus far features two top 100 players in Evan Smotrycz and Tim Hardaway Jr., to go along with big man John Horford.
It has also seems that Michigan will eventually end up with wing-man Isaiah Sykes, who is an under-the-radar prospect due to the fact that he has shuffled from school to school. It seems that the only thing preventing Sykes from committing is the fact that he has not yet received an offer.
Next year's class already features top 50 point guard Carlton Brundidge. Brundidge also happens to be an AAU teammate of 5 star center Amir Williams, who most early reports have leaning blue.
Not to mention the fact that the consensus number 1 recruit in the nation for 2011, Michael Gilchrist, has been to campus several times.
It seems that Beilein is doing an excellent job recruiting, and even with the loss of Zeigler, the talent that Michigan basketball appears to be bringing in these next few years bode extremely well for the future of the program.
**phew**
I was starting to get a little nervous...
If a guy can't recruit a kid away from his father, then I don't want him. Calipari could have done it!
In all seriousness, I share your optimism about the future despite the fact that Zeigler isn't coming aboard.
The new practice facility and the renovations to Crisler are going to help A LOT with recruiting
Gilchrist would be awesome, but if he isn't going to Kentucky or Villanova the world will asplode. Still, we are on a lot of good 2011 bigs' lists such as those of Zeller and Plumlee (whose brothers play at UNC and Duke respectively). Still, next year will probably not be pretty.
Michael Gilchrist, a native of Somerdale who commutes to St. Patrick High School in Elizabeth, N.J., will give an oral commitment to play college basketball at Kentucky at 5:50 p.m. Wednesday on ESPNU, according to sources.
The 6-foot-7 junior swingman cannot sign a binding national letter of intent until November.
Kid was committed to Iowa..then released from his LOI. rumor via ESPN is high majors are coming at him and lists michigan as one of them. Any chances we get him and do we want him. ESPN has him as #29 PF and rating of 92
seems like Jordan Morgan twin...6'9" 225
We might have more need at the C and wing positions.
This guy sounds more like Smotrycz in that he can put the ball on the floor. I don't think Morgan drifts outside like Smot and Larson probably do. Dude like pretty thick for a high schooler, which is nice for playing as a freshman. 6'9"/225 is pretty solid game weight, and driving with that size of body is hard to stop.
I thought about it more after I wrote that and looked him up.
Sounds like he would be good get.
If Evan can play the 2 (he used to play point guard) Michigan could eventually go 6'4" 6'9" 6'9" 6'9" 6'10" with Morris, Evan, Larson, Horford, McLimans....me likey. That would be ridiculous in the 1-3-1!
Or 'go small' with
6'4" 6'5" 6'9" 6'9" 6'10" with Morris, Vogrich, Evan, Horford, McLimans
i went from 6 to midnight thinking about that big lineup... thanks for help on this guy all that have responded. i think he'd be a good get
Larson's scouting report per ESPN.
Cody has sneaky athleticism and quickness, which he uses to surprise opposing bigs who do not initially respect him. Larson, a lefty, has good strength and finishes around the basket with a good amount of effectiveness. He also has a nice lefty jump hook over the right shoulder when he gets the ball with his back to the basket. Larson can stretch defenses with his respectable shooting ability from the perimeter and will also rise up and finish above the rim in traffic. He runs the floor and rebounds the ball on both ends.
with Larson scheduled for Sunday.
Per Sam Webb, Sykes may have some academic issues, but he is coming for an official visit this weekend per Detroit News.
Busy weekend for Beilein!
Color me wrong on that commit. Although I did always believe his Dad's contract (at Central or elsewhere) was the big question mark. Oh well, good luck Trey...but wish you were blue.
I still have all the confidence in JB and Co. with regard to recruiting. Time to put all the attention on 1 or 2 bigs for 2011.
chose CMU over State.
I never expected to steal Ziegler from his father. In fact, I think he is better off with his father anyways just for the fact that he is playing for his Dad.
What did you mean with that second sentence?
is in terms of playing for your dad, you can do a lot worse than playing for your dad.
I think he means that his new coach will be like a father to him
Sad to say but Gilchrist just committed to Kentucky. But I still think that our class next year will be great.
I think next will be good, especially with football, but two years from now both football and basketball will be operating on a completely different plane and the last two years will be a distant memory.
I'm not gonna do what everyone thinks I'm gonna do and... FLIP OUT man... all I wanna know is one thing... who's coming with me?
is a stretch but I think he's done a "decent" job. Not great, not horrible. Everything would look a lot better of course had Udoh stayed and the German kid been admitted. Not having those 2 plus the Cronin injury really set back big man recruiting.
I think it will be very telling who Beilein snags to fill out the 2011 class. I expect at least 1 highly rated bigman for that class and if that doesn't happen consider me disappointed.
Two top 100 kids last year (Morris, Vogrich), and even though the academic issues couldn't be worked out, he did get a commit from Benzing, who NBA people are calling a lottery pick in a few years.
Two top 100 kids this year (Smotrycz, Hardaway).
One top 50 kid next year (Brundidge), and it looks as though we are the favorites to land a top 20 kid in a position of need (Williams).
Also, even though we realistically had no shot with Mike Gilchrist, the fact that Beilein was able to get the number one recruit in the nation on campus several times last year speaks volumes about his ability to recruit.
I'd say, considering the state of our program, and the perception of Beilein coming in (Can't recruit, builds his team around 2 and 3 star kids), that excellent is the most fitting word I can think of to describe his recruiting ability.
Getting a few top 100 kids is not a given, but its expected. If Michigan is a top 25 program like we all want them to be, they have to land top 50 kids.
Calling us a favorite for A.Williams is way premature.
Beilein has done fine, but he's missed on some of the guys that he's focused in on (Prater, Ziegler) and a ton of in-state guys. Next year's front court will be filled with rookies. Injuries have played a factor in that, but its something that can be considered a failure.
I'm not trying to diss on Beilein, but lets not go too far in the opposite extreme either.
Michigan basketball is not a top 25 program and hasn't been for over a decade. Can we eventually get back there? Yes, but to simply disregard what Beilein has done as, "well, we should get top 100 kids every year," without understanding the context of the program over the past decade, or the climate surrounding Beilein's arrival is foolhardy at best.
Beilein came in with several negative preconceived notions of him as a coach. There were reports that several local high school basketball coaches and "handlers" were in Manny and DeShawn's ears about how Beilein was essentially a racist and didn't like playing black players, and that you could never get to the NBA playing for Beilein.
He fought through a 10 win season in his first year, battled all of the transfers and negative recruiting, and is really building something substantial here.
I have been, and will continue to be, extremely critical of his offensive scheme, but I am impressed with his ability to recruit kids who fit his scheme, as well as kids with elite levels of talent, and then molding them to fit his schemes.
I don't think it too extreme to say that a coach who took a 10-22 team in his first year, to the NCAA tournament the next year (not to mention it was the first time we had been to the NCAA tourney in 10 years), has done an excellent job.
The basketball program was in very bad shape when Beilein came in. I guess you could say that it was in "quiet shambles". I say "quiet" because the Ed Martin stuff/sanctions had blown over somewhat, but that we still hadn't really recovered from it. Our basketball reputation was trashed and the program was largely ignored, inside and outside Ann Arbor. Beilein inherited a few solid recruits, but there was no firm foundation in place in regard to recruiting/facilities/fan excitement.
Considering all of that, I think he's done a great job.
in a positive way remains to be seen IMO. JB's system preaches outside shooting and we've had some of the worst shooting teams in the Big 10 (if not the country) during his tenure. Many of those shots were put up by guys who supposedly fit JB's system.
I understand all the reasons why that is so, but I am withholding my judgment until we see what happens next year and in 2011 when JB has all his own recruits playing. So far its been a mixed bag.
It IS extreme to call Beilein's performance "excellent" at this point. Michigan SHOULD be a top 25 program, at the very least. Yet Michigan just had another losing year in Beilein's third year. Giving him credit for last year's tourney appearance, I'd rate him "decent" at this time. I think he is a great coach but a subpar recruiter. His first 2 recruiting classes were quite poor. He had only one top 100 commit (Morris) and one top 150 commit (Vogrich) - both have been less than spectacular. Morris may be great with time but still can't shoot. Vogrich was almost invisible last year. And Beilein has not had a single frontcourt recruit play any minutes. With this lack of talent coming in, he relied on Amaker recruits (Sims and Harris) to carry the team. He won't have that luxury this coming year. Now he has a decent class coming in but not the superb top 25 class we really needed with the lack of returning talent. That's just not good enough. I'm optimistic given Beilein's efforts - this year's class is his best on paper, he barely missed on some great recruits, he's already landed a top 100 recruit for next year and he's still working on a couple great prospects this year - but I'm also a realist.
Given a talent deficit, this coming year isn't looking pretty. Hope I'm wrong - maybe Beilein can work some coaching magic. Beilein needs better results on the recruiting trail to get Michigan back where it belongs.
I suspect I'll get a few negs for being realistic.
April 14th, 2010 at 11:04 PM ^
I think you're just taking the best of the best from the recruiting sites. On no site were BOTH Morris and Vogrich Top 100. Also, Hradaway is in no Top 100 I've ever seen and I haven't seen Brundidge above 70.
April 15th, 2010 at 12:29 AM ^
Are you retarded? Brundidge in in the top 40 on Espn and Hardaway is also a top 100 on Espn.
So do some actual fucking research before you reveal yourself to be pontificating retard.
Way to pick the most RELIABLE scouting site. And by your logic I could say we had one guy in each of 2009, 2010, and 2011 in the top 100 and the highest being at 64. This according to scout. Your flawed logic goes both ways. So next time think your point through and don't resort to baseless name calling.
They are one of the most RELIABLE for basketball. Clearly you don't follow much other than football recruiting. ESPN is on par with rivals when it comes to basketball recruiting.
Also, if you say it goes both ways, then there's no point in even bringing it up. Your post was a waste of time.
Gotta get Amir Williams. We need more size and toughness.
Can't be mad at JB, its not his fault, its the Angry Michigan hating gods. They're real, and they are out to get us. They took mercy on us today by not having Zeigler and McCallum both commit to MSU, then Lebron announce he's coming to college to play for the greatest basketball coach he's ever seen, Tom Izzo. Theres only one option now, we need a Maize N' Blue Kratos to climb atop Mount Hayes and send them to Hades, where they belong.
So no, noone in here is crazy.
The thing is I don't think we're getting better relative to the rest of the Big Ten. There has been a major upgrade in the past few years with Thad Matta at OSU, Painter at Purdue, now Crean at IU, Tubby at Minnesota, and of course holdovers Bo Ryan, Tom Izzo, and Bruce Weber.
The top of the BigTen is getting stronger and Michigan is now in a position where they have to be even better than they were under Amaker to even finish in the middle of the pack.
Michigan has a full boat of legit scholarship players that were actually recruited by other, actual, DI schools and not Grand Valley State or the Citadel or were the sixth man on their high school team, etc, etc, ...and some of them are actually redshirting (zomg). The program is getting much much much mcuh much better than under Amaker and you discredit yourself by even uttering that rubbish.
Zack Novak's only other scholarship offer was from Valpo and Douglass was not highly recruited IIRC, but other than that you've been right. A couple of near misses (Benzig, Prather, Zeigler, Udoh, Cronin, argghhh) and a string of just bad luck and general have hurt us. Beilein has been a good - not great - coach for us, and I'm glad he's here. Not that he's had much of a chance to prove himself yet, but the Tourney bid last year speaks volumes. I like John Beilein, I like his scheme, and I like how he recruits. That last year just really hurt.
Should be noted that Novak and Douglass were last-minute signees right after Beilein was hired.
The jury is still out on his first full recruiting class--Morris looks good, Vogrich is a question mark, and Morgan and McLimas haven't even played yet.
On paper, Smotrycz, Hardaway, and Horford seem to make up a solid class, and I believe are collectively a step up from the previous class. (But again, we won't know for a couple of years.)
Beilein's also made a solid start on 2011 with Brundidge.
Despite the pain of 2009-10, I'm confident this program is headed in the right direction.
April 14th, 2010 at 10:06 PM ^
Excellent point about Novak and Douglass, and they played really well as Freshmen.
Those are some big name coaches, but Tubby and Crean have not lived up to expectations...especially Crean (who, on a side note, is one of the most obnoxious coaches in the country).
How has Crean not lived up to expectations? He's basically starting a program from scratch. They had a kid on a baseball scholarship bringing the ball up the floor last year...
They finished dead last in the Big 10 his first year, going 6-25. If that's not the definition of falling short of expectations, I don't know what is. Basketball is the one thing that Indiana is supposed to be good at. Historically, I think (not sure though) that the bottom of the B10 is supposed to be reserved for Northwestern or Penn State. This past year, they finished 9th. That's also very bad. Again, this is Indiana. The land of basketball. Hoosiers was filmed their for goodness sake. Geez. 11th/9th is failing.
This is sarcastic, right?
"this is Indiana" = fail
Their roster his first year was complete garbage.
Paging Jamiemac...please help me here
The challenges that Indiana basketball has faced these past two years have been fairly akin to Michigan football.
Traditional power, coaching change, loss of a lot of really good players (transfer, going pro, or otherwise), more struggles than expected, and a bright future ahead.
EDIT: Also the fact that Crean and Rich Rod have come from state of Michigan pedigrees (RR with Don Nehlen who was a Bo guy, and Crean with Izzo). Also also, the fact that they both came from non-traditional powers whom they built into powers by virtue of their excellent coaching ability.
Dude, what don't you understand about last place? It's the worst a team can do. It is almost impossible to go 6-25 and fall anywhere but short of expectations. Of course Indiana had a crappy roster, but Iowa had everyone and their mother leave the program and they didn't finish last this year.
Please see the rosters below....2 players were on the team in 08-09 that were on the team the year before...Finklemeyer and Taber...ever hear of them? me either. count the freshman. Starting from scratch.
Also:
"Like all other Indiana fans, I have absolutely no idea what to expect from what will be the strangest season that any of us have ever experienced. Of IU’s current scholarship players, I had heard of exactly three of them when IU played its last game. All other players, including most of the incoming players, are Crean recruits. For any Michigan fans who aren’t up to speed, between graduation, early entry to the NBA, removal from the team because of academics and discipline, and one garden variety transfer (Detroit’s Jordan Crawford), IU returns one scholarship player. Yep, the Kelvin Sampson era was an overwhelming success. And even that single returning scholarship player merits an asterisk: Kyle Taber, now a redshirt senior, played meaningful minutes last season for the first time in his career and played well, but he came to IU as a walk-on. Therefore,new IU coach Tom Crean essentially will be starting over. "
Here's the link if you want to read about how IU was supposed to win the Big Ten in 2008-09:
http://www.umhoops.com/2008/10/23/around-the-big-ten-indiana/
It is almost impossible to go 6-25 and fall anywhere but short of expectations.It isn't if your expectations are "We've had so much roster turnover due to the turmoil in the program we're taking last no matter who is coaching"
Also, it isn't short of expectations, if wins and losses these first two seasons are secondary to building the foundations of a solid program. I am not a big Crean fan but I think he will do well if given time. Crean reminds me too much of Doug Collins on the sidelines.
2007-08:
No Name Pos Ht Wt DOB Yr City (High School)
34 Adam Ahlfeld G 6-0 193 10/09/1985
1 Armon Bassett PG 6-1 176 SO
5 Jordan Crawford PG 6-4 180 FR
13 Jamarcus Ellis F 6-5 210 JR
10 Brett Finkelmeier G 6-2 180
23 Eric Gordon SG 6-4 205 FR
32 Eli Holman C 6-10 220 FR
24 Brandon McGee F 6-7 220 FR
20 A.J. Ratliff G 6-3 188 12/02/1985
22 Lance Stemler F 6-8 210 SR
44 Kyle Taber F 6-7 226 11/26/198
2 DeAndre Thomas C 6-8 323 JR
3 D.J. White F 6-9 230 08/31/1986
30 Mike White F 6-6 232 SR
2008-09
No Name Pos Ht Wt DOB Yr City
30 Kory Barnett SF 6-5 200 FR
33 Devan Dumes G 6-2 195 JR
4 Brett Finkelmeier G 6-2 180
Steven Gambles F JR
40 Tijan Jobe C 7-0 255 JR
12 Verdell Jones G 6-4 180 FR
32 Broderick Lewis F 6-5 205 FR
3 Daniel Moore G 5-10 165 FR
25 Tom Pritchard F 6-8 240 FR
5 Jeremiah Rivers PG 6-4 205 JR
2 Matt Roth G 6-3 175 FR
34 Malik Story G 6-5 220 FR
44 Kyle Taber F 6-7 216 SR*
1 Evan White G 6-1 190 FR
20 Nick Williams G 6-3 212 FR
That is a roster. Roster =/= Argument unless explicated upon.