Anderson allegedly traded Vietnam deferments for sexual favors.
Allegedly he’d claim the students were gay to keep them out of the draft.
Dear God......Just make it stop already.
February 28th, 2020 at 3:10 PM ^
Dear God......Just make it stop already.
Nah, if it happened it's gotta come out. Full transparency.
February 28th, 2020 at 3:42 PM ^
Yes, we are not staee, THEEEE ohio, or ped state!
February 28th, 2020 at 4:29 PM ^
looking at the board lately, it's been getting tougher to believe this statement
February 28th, 2020 at 6:04 PM ^
You really suck at this.
February 28th, 2020 at 5:57 PM ^
It was a general statement of I can’t believe how this just gets worse and worse. Not that it should be covered up.
February 28th, 2020 at 3:15 PM ^
What a despicable human being
February 28th, 2020 at 3:16 PM ^
It’s going to look really bad, because it is. No point in hiding this. We all saw how much flack MSU got from pushing back on their legal issues. Just be transparent.
February 28th, 2020 at 6:16 PM ^
The problem is that, while being transparent sounds good on paper, the school’s lawyers don’t give a damn about transparency. They care about limiting the legal exposure of the school and any individuals who may be at risk; and they realize that being transparent is one of the worst things you can do in that regard.
It’s no accident that PSU, MSU, OSU and Baylor all used tactics to obscure and delay the facts from coming out on their end. While it may be a disaster from a PR standpoint, it is unfortunately, from a legal standpoint, usually pretty effective.
Odds are pretty high UM leadership will do as their legal team says.
February 28th, 2020 at 7:58 PM ^
I don't think I agree with this. It was short-sighted for those instituations to try to limit the legal exposure because they did untold repuational damage that can't be measured.
The lawyers are only thinking about the number on the settlement and the fees they get by spending all those hours obfuscating and fighting and litigating.
The university, if considering the full scope of the impacts, might be wise to say F you to the lawyers and immediately set up a fund and parameters around seeking recompense (proving you were seen by him, etc) and get on with it.
It would send the right message that they have compassion for the survivors. It would promote confidence in the existing administration. They have an ungodly large endowment. If you this costs them $100mm more in the short term, it's worth it in the long term.
February 28th, 2020 at 8:52 PM ^
The bottom line is, if something like you describe were to happen, administration would have to most likely go against the explicit instructions of what would be the best course of action to protect themselves and the school in a strictly LEGAL sense, reputational damage be damned.
Maybe that’s what administration ends up doing. But the track record of large institutions and what they do in regards to their following lawyers advice, would suggest that it isn’t very likely they’ll take that path.
February 28th, 2020 at 9:40 PM ^
“The university, if considering the full scope of the impacts, might be wise to say F you to the lawyers”
You do know that lawyers can’t do anything their client doesn’t agree to, right?
February 28th, 2020 at 10:35 PM ^
There are a lot of stupid clients out there.
I'm just hoping the U of M doesn't prove to be one of them.
February 28th, 2020 at 3:16 PM ^
"I expected I was going to have to" strip down, Glazier said.
Instead, Anderson took down his pants, lay down on the examination table and began manipulating himself.
"I was taken aback. I was instantly nauseated and hyperventilated," Glazier said. "He instantly stopped. He pulled up his pants and went back into his office."
Glazier got his letter, and brought it with him to the draft board's physical.
"When it came time to present the letters, I first presented the letter (about) chronic sinusitis," Glazier said. "The doctor’s reply was 'So?' So I gave him Doctor Anderson’s letter, which got me my 4F classification."
He said friends of his had to go beyond just watching Anderson.
"They told me that when he was manipulating himself, he would say, 'If you don't see anything, you could put your mouth on it.' It was clear what they had to do."
This is sick.
February 28th, 2020 at 3:52 PM ^
Jesus Christ, sick indeed.
February 28th, 2020 at 5:07 PM ^
I read the police report. This seemed to be his go to move when he knew he had a gay patient.
February 28th, 2020 at 3:19 PM ^
The world is a fine place. And it’s worth fighting for.
I agree with the second part.
somehow, that quote feels appropriate here.
February 28th, 2020 at 3:20 PM ^
Why were doctors allowed to certify people were gay?
For a non-POS doctor, do you just go "Doc, I'm gay". Okay, "Patient is gay, cannot be in military."
February 28th, 2020 at 3:50 PM ^
1) it's stupid that being gay used to disqualify you for military service
2) the draft itself, and the deferment process, were all awful and heavily advantaged rich white folks at the expense of the poor and minorities
3) all that said, there has to be some process other than saying "I'm gay"--otherwise, everyone would do it. (yes, I know it's more complicated than that, but the point stands).
Basically, the deferment system was broken, so there had to be some way to "confirm" that someone was gay--no idea why doctors were decided to be the ones who get to decide. And if the system hadn't been broken in the first place, nobody would have had to worry about it and create the verification system that led to this (although I'm sure Anderson would have continued being a POS in other contexts).
A very similar situation is true today with immigration. There are a ton of asylum cases with folks from other countries claiming to have been persecuted in their home countries because they were gay, both truthfully and not. Immigration officials have to try to figure out whether they are actually gay or just trying to defraud the system. If our immigration system actually worked, nobody would be falsely claiming to be gay in the first place. But since it's horrendously broken (there's a very good Last Week Tonight on the issue, if you're interested), people try to game it in all sorts of ways, which makes the government just make it even more broken to try to prevent that.
February 28th, 2020 at 3:55 PM ^
That stuff on immigration was informative. Thanks.
February 28th, 2020 at 4:04 PM ^
When I was like 13, I remember my mom insisting my pediatrician write down in my file that I sleep walk occasionally (true). Later I asked her why my doctor would care and remember her saying "If you ever get drafted it'll at least keep you off the front lines."
February 28th, 2020 at 4:39 PM ^
Unless you think that we should have limitless immigration, I’m not sure why you think any constrained system wouldn’t see people lying to game it.
February 28th, 2020 at 6:01 PM ^
Agreed, but the volume would go down considerably. (I'm speaking from some experience, as my partner works for USCIS). Immigration fraud rises and falls quite a bit in pretty predictable ways when immigration policies change, particularly in relation to asylum cases (marriage fraud, on the other hand, remains somewhat more constant, which always makes me think of Parks and Rec).
February 28th, 2020 at 5:26 PM ^
I used to know a guy from Grosse Pointe who said he tried to fake being gay to get out of being drafted. They told him the guy over there also claims to be gay and he should go over and kiss him to prove it. So much for that game. Fortunately for him, he was able to fall back on his asthma.
February 28th, 2020 at 5:33 PM ^
Damn, so messed up. Can you imagine just casually being told, not asked, to prove you're heterosexual by having to kiss some random girl (assuming you're a male)? Just such a dumb fucking way to "prove" anything. This country's history is....not all that great.
February 28th, 2020 at 4:01 PM ^
This is hard for some people to believe, but we are currently living in the most open minded and tolerant era in human history, and it isn't even close.
February 28th, 2020 at 4:15 PM ^
Ancient Greeks and Romans may have a claim there as well. Sexual norms were ALL OVER the place back then.
February 28th, 2020 at 4:41 PM ^
Open minded and tolerant is not necessarily good. Not saying it is currently happening today, but throughout history a lot of disgusting things happened because of opened mindedness and tolerance.
February 28th, 2020 at 4:51 PM ^
I know the sort of things you're referring to and it absolutely is happening today
February 28th, 2020 at 5:11 PM ^
There is “open minded and tolerant” and then there is “immoral and abusive”. The two ideas aren’t really related unless somebody wants them to be to support a position. Being the former doesn’t reflect greater acceptance of the latter.
February 28th, 2020 at 5:57 PM ^
Otoh, “closed-minded and intolerant” might just reflect a greater acceptance of the latter.
February 28th, 2020 at 6:31 PM ^
You know the difference between a straight rodeo & a gay rodeo?
At a straight rodeo they yell "Ride that Sucker!"
February 28th, 2020 at 8:03 PM ^
Yeah, how the fuck did the US Military have this as a policy that they trusted/allowed doctors to be the authority on? No way Anderson was the only doctor doing this since this policy literally encouraged men to have to "prove" they were gay. To a doctor.
February 28th, 2020 at 3:36 PM ^
Gross
February 28th, 2020 at 3:52 PM ^
”A former U-M wrestler named Tad Deluca said he raised concerns about Anderson in 1975. Deluca went to Anderson for a shoulder that was giving him problems and received unnecessary rectal and testicular exams.”
“Deluca wrote a nine-page letter to then Athletic Director Don Canham and then wrestling coach Bill Johannesen outlining the abuse. In response, the two threw Deluca off the wrestling team, Deluca said in a news conference Thursday.”
Perhaps this was discussed in another thread, and this is mostly me exclaiming out of sheer disgust more than anything, but how the hell is that the response? Why would you go to bat to protect a guy who does something like this, and then promote him to the physician of the football team? I know sexual assault wasn’t handled the same way as it is now, but how do you not at least fire the guy? I get that passes the buck to the next place he works and other potential victims, and I am, of course, not saying that is the right solution either. It’s obviously not. But why I go out of your way to shield a guy like this?
February 28th, 2020 at 3:58 PM ^
Because the reputation of the institution is more important than what is right. If you needed one sentence to diagnose the ills of post-Nixon America, that's it.
February 28th, 2020 at 4:43 PM ^
But how does lying protect the institution ? Just fire the guy, alert the police and move on. There are tens of thousands of people associated with UofM. Of course some people will do terrible things. I don’t get the need for any protection ?
February 28th, 2020 at 5:53 PM ^
It is often a failure of organizational communication more so than it is malice with individual actors.
February 28th, 2020 at 8:32 PM ^
It kicks the can and that's all people are thinking about at the time. Much easier for Canham and the coach to just kick the player off the team than it would have been to fire the guy (which would have required a whole he-said, she-said investigation and show cause, etc) it would have potentially brought immediate shame on the university, possible lawsuits, etc. Moving on would have been harder had they not just told the college kid to shut up.
Not at all surprising this happened under Canham either considering that he was Dave Brandon x10 before there was a Dave Brandon. Dude commercialized the entire AD.
And now they're dead, so they kicked this can for enough to never have do deal with it. Disgusting, yes.
But this is why the Boy Scouts have done it forever, the Catholic Church, PSU, MSU, OSU, US Women's Olympics, virtually all of Hollywood....
Yes, institution >> individual is a good way to describe the last 50 years of American social history.
February 28th, 2020 at 5:09 PM ^
Because the era this occurred in was not an era that handled this kind of news well or correctly. Just scan similar recent events - Catholic Church scandal, different schools, and Hollywood. The cretins tend to be in positions of power over victims that have much to lose, ergo a position of weakness. It's very easy to look back at those times through current lenses and issue negative opinions about those that were in positions to cease the activity. Our society didn't operate in a manner that supported the behavior we expect today.
I am also going to step on a soapbox really briefly here and implore people - when discussing this topic, this topic is absolutely not the time to state our position as being 'better than' any other school that has had an abuse issue. There are subjects that supersede fandom and comparison, and this most certainly is one of those topics. I don't expect those whose live have been affected by abuse to understand this, so I am just asking. Please, leave other Universities out of this. This event offers no place for comparison or use as an example of supremacy.
February 28th, 2020 at 6:19 PM ^
You are spot on about tying in the era this happened to how it was tolerated. Doctors back then were almost always regarded as beyond reproach. They were not questioned by people the vast majority of the time. My parents-in-law were wonderful, smart, educated people. But they would always defer to whatever a doctor or lawyer advised them to do, without ever questioning them. It's easy to see how a "respected" doctor back then would get preferential treatment in a dispute with an "average student athlete". The kind of abuse we see in many of these cases is enabled by this idea of putting people on pedestals who seem to have achieved a high level of education or professional skill, when in reality they are just flawed human beings.
February 28th, 2020 at 8:51 PM ^
Yes doctors are often amazing people. Unfortunately, many are in it for the money and prestige. Back in the 70s - 80s a lot of doctors were handing out scripts for specific drugs that were paying them to get people taking it.
even today doctors are sometimes on quotas for drugs, and surgeries. Yes, sometimes hospitals require x amount of certain surgeries. So a doctor may recommend something with the quota in mind.
February 28th, 2020 at 3:55 PM ^
We really have to know who knew what when and we have to know it as soon as possible.
February 28th, 2020 at 4:00 PM ^
JFC.
If there's such thing as a "Michigan Difference," it can no longer be based on the belief that no U-M people would ever do heinous things.
A real "Michigan Difference" is going to have to be based on how the institution reacts to, and deals with, the evidence that U-M people are as likely as any other institution's of being truly horrible human beings.
February 28th, 2020 at 4:21 PM ^
Slow down, man. This happened 45 years ago at UofM.....Larry Nassar was doing this shit right up until 2015 at MSU.
February 28th, 2020 at 6:01 PM ^
Oh so THAT makes it better.
JFC the “Our sexual assault is better than MSU’s sexual assault” losers like you only make it look worse.
Pick another school to support please.
February 28th, 2020 at 8:07 PM ^
I'm not comparing sexual assaults you fucking dumbass. I'm also not willing to throw out everything positive about Michigan and the "Michigan Difference" because of something that happened here before I was born.
If that's the attitude we are taking, nothing on earth deserves praise, because if you trace things back all institutions ever created have had members do horrible things in their past.
So do us all a favor and eat shit Special Agent Utah......please.
February 28th, 2020 at 9:12 PM ^
No, that’s exactly what you are doing. You’re saying that one college sexual assault scandal isn’t as bad as another and you’re trying to rationalize it by saying “Oh, it happened before I was born, therefore it isn’t as awful as other scandals.”
And now you’re throwing in strawmen like “All institutions have their dark side” and “That doesn’t negate the good things that happen here.” To further back your idiotic argument
Please tell some of the victims “Look, this happened a long time ago so, with all due respect, it’s not as bad as the Nassar scandal.” Let me know how that turns out you self centered, small minded fuck.
February 28th, 2020 at 10:23 PM ^
Are you really this stupid or are you pretending? I'm not equating the sexual assaults....just because you say it, doesn't make it true. I'm saying I'm not throwing away the "Michigan Difference" and feeling that Michigan is a special place, like a previous guy said we should do, simply because a Dr. who was employed here did very bad things a long time ago.
If you want to self immolate your love of the University, go right ahead. I refuse to do that.
February 28th, 2020 at 11:41 PM ^
IMHO, I would say Don's comment is the perfect way to conflate chrisu's prior comment and the people who want to say our "scandal is not as bad as our scandal" crowds.
Personally, I agree with chrisu's take 100%(also the take of Webb & Bacon on WTKA this morning) but also think that Don's comment was spot on! If I was capable & points were functional, I would totally upvote you so I send a spiritual upvote instead.
February 28th, 2020 at 4:28 PM ^
When the Sandusky stuff came out one of my immediate thoughts was "God I hope Bo never turned a blind eye to anything like this."
There are sick fucks everywhere. Just need to hope the institution does the right thing when it comes to light. Time will tell if Michigan did...