Ahriman

June 10th, 2017 at 9:14 PM ^

are multisport stars which explains why they aren't more bulked up. Ace has mentioned they shouldn't have trouble adding weight to their frames

It's going to be real fun down the road to see Michigan football once they have a dominant offensive line to go along with a great defense (hopefully sooner than later). Some people are worried about how Ohio is recruiting. I don't think it's going to matter much. Look at what Coach Harbaugh and Coach Drevno did at Stanford against USC with the talent/recruiting disparity. Now they've added Coach Frey. The future is bright.

WeimyWoodson

June 10th, 2017 at 9:56 PM ^

It's great and all but it should matter what OSU is doing. Meyer has built a juggernaut down there and Harbaugh needs to find a way this year. For sure we were robbed last year but for comments like "it's not going to matter once Harbaugh etc" doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Absolutely need to start winning. 2011 was a long time ago.

brad

June 10th, 2017 at 10:22 PM ^

Sure, you want to see it in the Win column. But Michigan beat OSU up and down the field last year, and actually won the game on the road with more or less Hoke's roster. The fact that the result was stolen shouldn't negate Harbaugh's progress.

You're not saying it exactly, but you seem to be worried about OSU's parade of top 100 guys compared to our parade of top 250 guys. And yeah, that difference is not ideal on paper, but the rivalry has already been balanced to the point that the traditional three point home field swing is relevant. With Meyer at OSU, we can't really hope for or expect anything more.

JonnyHintz

June 11th, 2017 at 1:06 AM ^

The thing I've noticed about Hoke recruiting is that he seemed to favor going after high floor, low ceiling type guys for the most part. Guys who are already physically developed and don't need much seasoning before they're ready to play, but also don't have a lot of real upside. This results in lots of generic 4* guys who excel against their peers while 17-18 years old but lack the longer term advantage. When it came to recruiting raw prospects with lots of potential, that's where you see Hoke's biggest recruiting failures (guys like Morris and Drake Harris). I think we've seen that while Hoke recruited talented players, there was still a limit to the talent. And holes left by Hoke at QB, RB, and OL specifically have hurt the team the past two seasons. Harbaugh seems to be more of the opposite. He still goes out and gets talented players and highly ranked players. But he seems more focused on getting those developmental players that need a few years but have incredibly high ceilings. He's more willing to take on a high upside 3* and turn him into an elite player than to just take a 4* guy who is good, but doesn't have that same upward mobility. That's why we see guys like Hayes, Mayfield, and Milton. Raw prospects or undersized, but the upside they have is astronomical.

Jasper

June 11th, 2017 at 7:52 AM ^

I agree with this. What I call the old regime (Hoke and going all the way back to Bo, excepting Rodriguez, whose recruiting was too complicated -- in a bad way -- for a single post) was into low-risk recruiting and had a little bit of an obsession with size. How often did we hear "Too small!" from those guys?

war-dawg69

June 11th, 2017 at 8:14 AM ^

Hoke did not recruit as well along the offensive line. Harbaugh and Drevno turned them into all big ten, but know I see recruits who have all american type talent. I see Bredeson, Ruiz, Filiaga and Ekiyor and possibly others as all american type talent. I think our defense will always be better than osu's so if we can build a better o-line going forward we will be right there. As far as osu recruiting goes, yes on paper they are beating us in recruiting up to this point but I think that even changes with next years class which will be Michigans best ever. That clown Steele ranked our defense fourth in the big ten and offense like sixth this year. I see a lot of people sleeping on Michigan, but the secret will be out soon enough. Fourth and Sixth, ya maybe in the country Mr Steele.

war-dawg69

June 11th, 2017 at 8:47 AM ^

Just to clarify I was saying are 2019 class I believe will rank higher than osu's. This years class is going to be very good also but with less recruits. Helmholdt thinks Ryan and Mayfield will never have tackle type size and that is rivals low rating bullshit. Mayfield is allready 275 and pushing 6'6". Harbaugh, Frey and Drevno as evaluators vs. clowns like Helmholdt etc. who do you take. You have to look at the recruiting sites and kind of see what the majority thinks anyways in most cases. Myles sims in my opinion is a top five cb, but 247 has him in the 300's which drags his rating way down. How is this even possible. Maybe some sites just need to catch up or just miss on some guys. Sims is just one case that I hope gets straightenened out because he could push for five star terrritory and I think he is the steal of the class. Look how high Ryan is allready and he hasn't even played at tackle yet. Some get it right and some don't but I think our coaching staff can watch a kid in person and see right away if he has what they want. Yes I think they are that good and especially with the o-line.

gruden

June 11th, 2017 at 1:52 PM ^

Ultimately, these ranking guys can be wrong and they just move on to the next batch of prospects.  If coaches get it wrong, it can eventually mean their jobs.  Coaches know what they want, just a question of how it serves the overall goal.

Coaches that can develop marginal abiltity into high-functioning or even elite ability are always going to do well.  Harbaugh, Brown, Drevno and Frey have an established track record for this.  All we need is a top-10 recruiting class, coaching makes up for the difference.

Honk if Ufer M…

June 12th, 2017 at 6:34 AM ^

gruden,

It will never get the exposure it deserves, but in creating the word abiltity you've proved to be a cunning linguist and achieved something of fine form, firm in it's communication, uplifting. It's a full & well rounded word, it's well endowed with meaning and functionality, it arouses the senses, it's conceptually well developed.

As a word creator you should stand proud and puff out your chest, turn a headlight on, er, I mean spotlight on this  and flash it to the world. If you massage and caress the the revealing of this word to the public and stress it's two main points, make them firm while standing erect and pushing hard for it to be welcomed into the bosom of the public's acceptance, you will be showered with their milk of kindness.

There are a few people Dylan once wrote and sang about who were fit and able, and had much ability, who might be candidates for the honor of being the first to be described as being or having abiltity, Bridget Bardot, Anita Ekberg, Sophia Loren & Elizabeth Taylor!

You've hit a Covfefe here! Please keep us abreast of when it makes the dictionary. The time is ripe!                                                                                                                         

blue in dc

June 11th, 2017 at 10:31 AM ^

But overall, Ohio State recruited significantly better The good In 2012, Hokes class was ranked 6 - Ohio State was 4 (note, rankings from 247) In 2013 - Hoke's class was ranked 4- Ohio State was 2 The not so good In 2014 - Hoke's recruiting class ranked 19, Ohio State - 3 In 2011 (RR/Hoke transition) - Michigan 28, Ohio State 7 In 2015 (Hoke/Harbaugh transition) - Michigan 37, Ohio State 7 Over that time period Ohio State had 6 five stars, Michigan had 2. Comparing 4 stars, Ohio State had 74, Michigan had 50. While we shouldn't pretend Hoke left a bunch of 2 and 3 stars, we shouldn't pretend that Harbaugh was not starting with a significant talent gap.

getsome

June 11th, 2017 at 2:04 PM ^

interesting stats.  some fail to recognize it or maybe they just choose to ignore or spin it or whatever but more often than not osu has out-recruited m (in the modern era).  obviously m has won some battles and brought in higher ranked classes than osu over past 40 years or whatever but not as often as some may think.  theyve been a recruiting powerhouse for some time...and with limited coaching transition costs or outright hiring mistakes, sadly its translated to consistent on-field performance.  m appears to be closing the gap and hopefully it shows again this fall

In reply to by Khaleke The Freak

MotownGoBlue

June 11th, 2017 at 12:34 AM ^

Mattison's work as a recruiter, D coordinator, and DLine coach is often undervalued or simply not mentioned when "Hoke's recruits" and Hoke's DLine" are brought up. IIRC, the 28th pick in Round 1, of the 2017 NFL Draft, was under Mattison's wing from day 1. Not to say we all don't know how instrumental Mattison was in turning the defense around, but rather how GMatt is often overshadowed when mentioning Hoke.

PopeLando

June 11th, 2017 at 2:44 AM ^

Mattison definitely gets credit for helping Hoke recruit and build a great defense. But Mattison gets none of the blame for Hoke's ineptitude both in recruiting and coaching offense. Basically, everything Mattison has done has helped, and none of the failures are on his shoulders.

Ezeh-E

June 11th, 2017 at 12:12 PM ^

The DL recruiting has been more high ceiling focused with Taco Charlton being a good example.

Mattison helped target other recruits, too, but I put it on Hoke and the rest of his assistant coaches who identified the targets. I would assume that Hecklinski would pick the WR recruits he wanted and have Mattison help target them, rather than Mattison pick WR recruits.

Both arguments can hold water: that Hoke picked high floor/low ceiling, and that Mattison is a good recruiter, has an eye for talent, and develops his players. I think that is why Mattison always gets a pass. That and 3 players in the NFL from last year alone.

huntmich

June 11th, 2017 at 12:29 PM ^

Yeah, but don't pretend that there aren't different philosophies in recruiting. It isn't just a pure talent game. Coaches recruit kids that are going to fit their system, both mentally and physically. And Jim Harbaugh was working with the recruits of a different coach, who had different philosophies regarding the game. He is now, largely, working with kids that he hand picked to fit his team, not trying to shoe-horn very good football players recruited by Hoke into his system. The team is going to get significantly better as Harbaugh's recruits become Harbaugh's stars.

 

And apart from that, he is consistently pulling in classes that are, pure talent-wise, as good as or better than Hoke's miracle recruiting year. When we have 4.5* backups to replace injured starters, Michigan will be able to better weather the attrition that happens in a football season.

 

The cupboard wasn't bare when Harbaugh showed up, and he turned it into back to back 10 win seasons. The cupboard is getting packed with Harbaugh's elite talent, and he is the only college football coach they know. Michigan essentially beat Ohio State at home last season with a team stocked with talent that had a chunk of their developmental years wasted by Brady Hoke. As the team becomes more pure Harbaugh, it will consistently compete at the playoff level. Enjoy the ride.

Stringer Bell

June 10th, 2017 at 10:34 PM ^

The biggest advantage Michigan with Harbaugh will have over OSU will be the QB spot. Get the advantage at QB and that will neutralize OSU's advantage at other spots on the field.  And we all know Don Brown could take a group of 11 MGoPosters and turn it into a top 5 defense.  Combine elite QB play with elite defense and the wins over OSU will come. 

JonnyHintz

June 11th, 2017 at 1:09 AM ^

Not to mention that Don Brown's defense is specifically tailored to stopping what Ohio State does offensively. He executed it to perfection last year too. Absolutely shut down the OSU offense. Only allowing 3 points on drives that started outside the Michigan 25.

WeimyWoodson

June 10th, 2017 at 10:59 PM ^

Is ultimately we need to see the big win. Would you rather have a moral victory like last year? Or an actual win with some breaks. Pretty easy to forget that OSU missed three field goals. That was a major gift that ended up being blown. I don't believe another coach would do a better job, it's just that our biggest foe has one of the greatest coaches in the history of the game and got a three year head start. Had Dave Brandon not screwed up and hired Harbaugh in January of 2011 it's a totally different conversation, but alas that didn't happen.

huntmich

June 11th, 2017 at 12:54 PM ^

Harbaugh had a major rebuilding task when he showed up. It's easy to forget 2014 and the losses to Maryland and Rutgers. But within the first year we had a moral victory against a Sparty team that had been dismantling us for years. He followed that up with a significantly better team that shut down State. After two years of rebuilding we got a moral victory AT Ohio State, and I am one of the few that trust Harbaugh enough to believe that he can keep improving the team, despite having lost a lot of players. We are now approaching a Harbaugh picked team that has only been developed by Harbaugh and his staff. The tide is turning.  Enjoy the ride.

WeimyWoodson

June 11th, 2017 at 1:43 PM ^

I just think beating OSU this year is the most important goal of the year. If they drop a game to a random team I'd find that okay since they're young, but to continue to show real progress the team needs to beat OSU. But there will be some doubt setting in if he starts 0-3 against them (more so doubt about him being able to beat them, not get rid of him).

I Like Burgers

June 11th, 2017 at 5:49 PM ^

I don't know if I'd call it balanced quite yet. Michigan was fielding on of their best teams of the last 20 years and Ohio State was at the end of what was supposed to be a rebuilding/reloading year. Much like Michigan will be this year.

And Ohio State's recruiting will loom large for the next couple of seasons until Michigan has fully rebuilt things. Especially on the lines.

BoFlex

June 11th, 2017 at 11:58 PM ^

Not 100% the same situation, but a lot of us thought the same things about Nolan Ulizio. Underrated, undersized tackle that would redshirt, bulk up and be an All-Conference performer after 2+ years in a college S&C program.

I thought for sure that this past spring we were going to see Nolan breakout as a redshirt sophomore, and show everyone why Harbaugh/Drevno took a chance on a "diamond-in-th-rough," but so far I haven't seen any peep from him on the depth charts.

Scarlatina

June 23rd, 2017 at 4:38 PM ^

As a Cincinnati native, I tend to try to root for the local guys.

I hadn't heard that anywhere really, I just saw that he didn't look all that impressive and was not in the mix for any of the tackle positions. I kind of thought Ulizio would be one of the first players to help shore up the depth issues when Newsome went down.

The Fan in Fargo

June 11th, 2017 at 11:38 AM ^

Yeah maybe ask Clemson if they were afraid of Ohio's recruiting rankings. How about Alabama's? The point is if the Bucs get the #1 linebacker and weakside d-end and they are at #25 and #35 overall it doesn't matter. Michigan can get the #3 linebacker and weakside end with possibly better talent at overall numbers of #100 and #143. Do you follow me here? There could be 10 wide receivers in between those player's overall numbers messing everything all up. How in the hell are you going to go by that when you are mixing them all in a bunch? Overall recruiting rankings aren't the end all. Read these words and think about it for a second. Recruiting overall rankings are only just recruiting overall rankings. Let that simpleness sink in for a few seconds and grasp that. The #1 safety could be at overall spot of #200 with 15 quarterbacks ahead of him. Are you getting me? They look sexxy and and that's what Urbz wants. He's not a great-great talent observer. He just goes for the top ranked speed guys. That's it. They have had how many top and highly ranked classes now for how long and they aren't dominating everyone. It's not like the B1G has been that great as a whole competition wise. 

Bigscotto68

June 10th, 2017 at 9:36 PM ^

Maybe future bookend tackles we've been drooling for, with Big Mike, Cesar and Ben. I long for the days of 2-3 Big Ten first team OL every year.....see you in Texas.

DHughes5218

June 11th, 2017 at 3:21 PM ^

I think it's because this wasn't a camp featuring the cream of the crop. It's great that Mayfield was named Alpha Dog but he was probably the highest rated 2018 recruit there. Most of the top level recruits were at at the Rivals 5 star challenge in Indy this weekend. I could be wrong about the competition level because I don't know who participated but the Rivals camp was definitely the top one in the Midwest this weekend.

umbig11

June 10th, 2017 at 9:57 PM ^

But this is what Comporoni from the "Underground Bunker" said about our recruit. I just have to laugh at times. He must know so much more than our staff. "They are all projects to some degree. I don't mean to slight him at all. He's a young guy, putting in the work. He didn't ask to be rated high. I kind of feel bad for him." "He doesn't have long arms. I'm not sure if that's the reason he lunges over his toes when trying to make first contact. But he doesn't extend his short arms when lunging. That's a negative on top of a negative." He lets d-linemen in close to him. He can get away with that against most of the guys he played against last fall, but he should be controlling the distance better than that. He played for a good team last year, but much of technique is all messed up, including his heels coming off the ground and playing too high when trying to drive block. "He doesn't win collisions as readily as you would expect him to. When he engages, he doesn't have devastating pop. Plenty of mediocre opponents end up sliding off of him and earning stalemates after the collision while he tumbles off of them awkwardly. That's a bit alarming. Happens over and over." "He seems to play with mediocre balance." "He shows some force as a down blocker when he is given an advantageous angle at pre-snap, again against smallish, middling competition." "He has more to learn, from a technique-standpoint, than most four-star recruits you'll see and most three-star Big Ten signees. Maybe he'll learn all that stuff, put on good weight, and become a good player. That's a deep well of maybes." "I don't think his junior film is as good as Kodi Kieler's or Dennis Finley's. Kieler turned out to be a quality college player."

In reply to by Khaleke The Freak

gruden

June 11th, 2017 at 1:58 PM ^

That is some serious shade.  I hope the kid has a chip on his shoulder and works twice as hard to prove that asshat wrong.

tspoon

June 12th, 2017 at 9:50 AM ^

I'm with you in that I hope Comparoni's mouthing off lights an undying fire in the kid, and that he not only blows past projections but takes it out on Sparty in particular.

That being said, there have been several instances along the way when Comparoni wrote a detailed analysis like this about one of our high ceiling recruits, and was dead on.  Blind-squirrel-finds-nut, sure ... but he was not wrong in calling out guys like Big Will and Sugar Shane as having significant flaws that meaningfully impeded their ability to transfer elite physical potential to on-field production.

Comparoni is certainly capable of allowing his Sparty Green goggles to blur his vision ... but (and I know this won't be a popular opinion) let's not pretend he's always wrong on such things. The easy thing to do is be dismissive of him because of the Sparty inferiority/bias. But history says that is not always the case.

I will just file this away as an interesting data point, no more, no less.