2017 defense concerns.....(youth)

Submitted by Wolverine Devotee on

I was just thinking about this today.

Take a look at some of the starters and players that will see significant time in 2016 on defense. We are guaranteed to lose 9 of 10 of these guys after the 2016 season. 

Defensive Line
Taco Charlton DE
Ryan Glasgow DT
Chris Wormley DL
Linebackers
Ben Gedeon LB
Defensive Backfield
Jeremy Clark DB
Delano Hill S
Jourdan Lewis CB
Jabrill Peppers (draft eligible after 2016) DB
Channing Stribling CB
Dymonte Thomas S

The defensive backfield is especially horrifying. I can't remember such an attrition at one spot excluding Never Forget. 

Which young guys will play this year? The DL isn't completely scary as we'll have Hurst and Mone in terms of guys that have experience. 

I think David Long is gonna see time this year. 

cutter

April 19th, 2016 at 10:15 PM ^

The best teams in college football have talent, depth, experience and on the field talent.  Michigan is going to have some holes on both sides of the field coming into the 2017 season.

On the offense, it'll be the line (which is kind of thin this season).  U-M loses three starters (Kalis, Magnuson and Branden) at the end of 2016.  Cole, Newsome and Kugler will be the only players with any real starts (and we don't know how Kugler is going to be integrated into the line this upcoming season).  Ideally, Dawson and Bushell-Beatty would also be in the starting ranks, but there's been no evidence of that to date.  I don't think anyone will be surprised to see Michigan with two redshirt freshmen on the offensive line (or perhaps true sophomores) when the Wolverines open the 2017 season in Dallas against Florida.

The other question will be on the WR, i.e., who replaces Darboh and Chesson's production?  Grant Perry is probably part of the equation, but the rest is a question mark at this point.  Again, I don't think we'll be too surprised to see players from the current incoming class (and early enrollees) being depended upon heavily in 2017 (fingers crossed on Harris and Ways for 2016).

Hurst and Mone are going to be the two upperclassmen on the 2017 line and we all expect Gary to be a major contributor in 2016.  But like the offensive line, we're looking at possible shortfalls in experienced depth.  Marshall has to step it up and Winovich needs to turn into a pleasant surprise.

McCray should be back for 2017 and there are lots of players who have been recruited for the other LB positions.  I think it's fair to assume this will be Pepper's last year, so there will be a need for a SLB down the line.  Furbush is his backup, but his talent and skill sets are very different than Peppers.

The secondary is going to be very hard hit--no doubt about that.  David Long and Lavert Hill are going to have to grow up fast at the CB position because they're the likely starters for the 2017 season.

Michigan will begin flipping the switch after the 2016 season.  Most of the team's personnel will be Harbaugh recruits with a handful left from Hoke's tenure.  This team will also be young, so there will be questions about the starters for 2017, lack of experience for some players and which players will provide the onfield leadership.  There are position groups where U-M will actually be in good shape, such as QB, FB, TE and RB.  But we can expect some uncertainty at a whole host of other places when that opening season game with the Gators takes place at Jerryworld in September 2017.

 

 

 

 

 

Wolfman

April 20th, 2016 at 1:17 AM ^

Love the excitiement, but that comes from getting what you wanted. I will admit I became a UM fan at a very good time, but it wasn't without thought. MSU was the king of not only the state,  but the conference and that shit was coming to an end to be replaced by Woody and then to be countered by Bo. So as a fan, I probably felt much like those from OSU who became cfb fans in Urban's first year. I don't know it it's possible. I don't know if I would have listened to the advice of those who had been watching UM fb for almost 50 years. But I'm suggesting limit the worry. As good as we can be, Jim will get us there. I saw it play out before.

Hell, I think Bo, despite 3 losses his first season was like 58-7(oh hell yeah, that tie) and 1 after 6 years in largely 10 game seasons plus the bowl games which we could not participate in every year. So a few losses came at the bowl games, marring an otherwise perfect season. Yeah, we lost some bowl games, but we didn't see our dreams fade in the preseason, and I hadn't gone through the pain of mediocrity of the two previous decades. His record for those 6 years was fricking amazing. Yet, and it lasted much longer than 6 years, I wasted too damn much time pissed when we lost, worried about things only Bo and his staff had control over and thank the powers that be there was no internet then, because I probably would have not gotten married or would have been divorced soon thereafter.

I know this Michigan football is a powerful force. But don't let it consume you. It took me, and I had to actually admit  something to myself I didn't want to. Lloyd is not at his best in preseason. Just knowing that helped me relax expectations,  so it was near the 02-03 I wasn't going to waste any more than 10 minutes of anger after a loss, and then move on. M football can consume you. The only thing that brought me more excitement than a MI game was watching and teaching my son how to play ball. And now with Jim and 24/7 access, I'm worried for those just starting this journey.

But you wrote about replacing Darboh and Chesson and I recall talking to my son last year during half-time of the UT game and he asked, "Dad, who is no.82?"  I said, Oh that's Darboh. He's been around for awhile. "I'm more excited about  this Chesson kid." Hell, without Jim, we would not have realized we had one of the better wr cores in the conference.

And I can understand the concern about replacing them, and oh hell yeah, Perry will play a role. Jim saw  something he liked early, got him some minutes and has recruited the hell out of that position. Hell, two of the following will break through starting this year, despite some of them being injury riddled, etc. You probably forgot we've accumulated so many: Harris, Mitchell, Johnson, Hawkins, Crawford, McDoom, and I think Peppers did some time there. We've got Moe Ways than you know of hurting you  from there. These kids are good.

And despite your concerns, it's basically that way throughout the roster. This Harbaugh guy, and we first saw it at Stanford, knows how to put a team together. If he sees a young man can play well at more than one position, add another man to our roster. I didn't have daily reminders like those of you who were familiar with both  the net and M football. I didn't have the opportunity to screw around at work until around '98.'99, and by that time like I said, I wasn't consumed. I will admit though for awhile I checked the computer every day to see what our crazy coach did the night before. Then when MGOBLOG started this guy goes blue, that guy goes blue, hello to, bam, bam, bam, two days before and through LOI day, I said, we'll be ok.

What I'm saying is when  you have a great coach appreciate it. I had no roster access like I do  today. I had some buddies from ND that paid Steele and others and they knew more about what we had than I did. But other than the year Harbaubh broke his arm, where we finished right around .500, I enjoyed one hell of a ride and getting ready for the next one. And oh hell yeah, we'll taste some defeats we shouldn't(but that will be offset by those we win where they all say ain't gonna happen). So relax, for every  worry Jim will have the best answer availabe and we have to roll with that.

And one more thing I am so grateful for - and I don't mind MSU being good, actually like it - it's actually fans of every team just trollng, trying to start shit. It's distasteful. And yet, I wouldn't be surprised if someone who knew me then said to me, "you were as big an ass as any of those people." Scary shit. Go Blue!!!!

Heywood_Jablome

April 19th, 2016 at 10:25 PM ^

2017 on paper will probably be a rebuilding year.  Which is why I think this year is extremely important.  OSU and Sparty lose experienced talent, and OSU is going to be formidable in 2017.  If we don't get them this year, Harbaugh is going to most likely going to start 0-3 against them.  Not sure how the fan base will react to that.

Have to make hay while the sun shines.  2016 could be one of the more imporant years in Michigan football history.  Hate to sound dramatic, but that's the way I see it.

Wolfman

April 19th, 2016 at 11:50 PM ^

but hell the fan bases of every team in the country know we have one of the better ones and Jim doesn't get nervous and overreact. He just, because he is a great football mind, makes the best decisions daily and that is a big reason in why we were a much improved team before we took a snap last  year.

Despite his record, Urb proved last year he was mortal. He couldn't coach in many other conferences and get away with  sleepwalking the entire year and not even having the correct starting qb until the last month of the year. Judging by his recruiting, they should be formidable every year, but sometimes the season gets in the way of all your dreams.

Your part of the fan base, so am I. How would you react? Would you call for his job if we just happened to have between 30=32 wins for those three years and his first recruited QB with two years coming back?  Yes, I agree with you it's time to start the pay back and I'll be as disappointed as any other fan should that scenario unfold. And I really don't know what State is going to do between this year and next other than develop a little depth and gain experience, much like us to make them more dangerous than they will be this year. Too much time, too many variables and shit happens and someone takes your spot at the top. 

If I were you, or anyone that is pushing too hard, I'd just say relax, watch it unfold and do recall what post 2014 looked like and around pre 2018, take another look around and see how things are looking.  Enjoy the jouney Jablome.

 

Richard75

April 20th, 2016 at 12:24 AM ^

Good grief: We're already worrying about JH starting 0-3 against OSU? While we're at it, why not fret about starting 0-4? I mean, the 2018 game is in Columbus, right?

Apparently people have either forgotten or are too young to remember what it's like to have a program like the one Harbaugh is building. You don't need the planets to be in perfect alignment to beat a good opponent. We'll have a formidable team too, one that will have an excellent chance to win every game it plays, regardless of opponent or venue.



Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

rob f

April 19th, 2016 at 10:54 PM ^

Did you say yutes?

 

But seriously, WD, really?

I think Harbaugh, Brown, and the staff will find a way.  They've already made major strides with the signings in February and have Kinnel and Watson from the previous cycle, plus we're a long way from the 2017 signings.   Would it surprise anyone at all to see a couple of position changes being made to shore up secondary depth?  The athleticism of this team has already been upgraded since Harbaugh arrived and I expect that trend to continue and provide additional positional flexability.

Why worry now?  Trust HARBAUGH!

Mr. Yost

April 19th, 2016 at 10:39 PM ^

Alum has been preaching this for 2 years now (after seeing one of my waaay too early depth charts - selfish plug)...but he's been relentless on the 2017 defense/youth kick.

You get no love.

George Pickett

April 19th, 2016 at 10:50 PM ^

After suffering through Rich Rod and Hoke, I think people have forgotten that great coaches don't need tons of experience to win.  Depth may be a concern in 2017, but there will be lots of talent, and at least one or two elite players.

mgowill

April 19th, 2016 at 11:02 PM ^

Experience does matter, but I think you and others in this thread are right about the Rich Rod/Hoke aftermath.  People would be shocked to note that 1/3 of the All B1G team last year was comprised of freshman and sophomores - or maybe they wouldn't.  

Every year people cry that this is the year Ohio State takes a step back because of their scary depth chart.  Nope.  Every year people clamor that Sparty will return to nothing-ness because of their depth chart.  Nope.  Recruiting.  Coaching.  That's the difference.

Wolfman

April 20th, 2016 at 4:41 AM ^

that 1/3 of those selected All BIG were freshmen and sophomores last season. But, looking at it today, with those good enough  to realistically expect a decent pay check in their first season as a paid professional, those sophs are basically one year away from making the  same decision ,so they are, indeed, upperclassmen in that respect. I don't know how many - I do know there have have been a few - that knowing they could realize a good pay day - still have come back for their final season for no other reason than being a part of a NC. Now I don't know if that translates into love for the school or just the rarity of those not on the  Bama roster to realize that.

Unless the insurance supplies money that is far superior than the  average college grad for a number of years, I would not chance it, especially when realized the best at your position, or even best in the nation, regardless of position. Not only Charles Woodson, but all members with stellar seasons from that '97 season, draft eligiibe, those of the nature of Steele, Sword, et. al, good ball players, were probably actually going to be assumed a little better than they were considering the  performance of the group as a whole, with  the one bona fide "can't miss."  Not surprising because he is who he is, being away from school for twenty  years, coupled with how much money he's made and the fact so many  doors are open to him already, most would just go about starting their professional career at a still young 40 years old, but with enough money in his pocket to guarantee he'll be the boss unless he decides on a field that demands a little apprenticeship. 

But for the  reasons that made him the best defender we've ever had, arguably our greatest ever player, one of the NFL all time greats, i.e., a work ethic and an understanding if a degree from one of the nation's best will help him in a certain way, he'll do what's necessary to achieve that.

But overall, the NFL saying some time ago, OK we can decide after three, doesn't surprise me at all. Hurts sometimes especially in the case like Peppers when we are still trying to build something as opposed to Woodson when it was constructed, but  such is life. In his case, thank all we had  a chance to witness something special(with hope he blows up this season) and move on.

Richard75

April 20th, 2016 at 12:05 AM ^

Agreed. OSU is young this year but I highly doubt they consider it "scary" or "horrifying." Good programs don't develop players solely through four years of trial and error.

Also, with the exception of a few guys on that list, the players coming in are considered better prospects.



Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

DFW_Michigan_Man

April 20th, 2016 at 8:11 AM ^

More like graduation and early entry. I wouldn't call it horrifying, but the 2017 secondary will be a bit green, however there are a lot of very talented players in he 2016 recruiting class that will be in year 2 of the program.

Avon Barksdale

April 20th, 2016 at 9:39 AM ^

If Don Brown could have a top 5 defense with Boston College, I am confident he will be fine with a lineup that looks something like this:

DE - Lawrence Marshall, Chase Winovich, Kemp, S. Johnson/R. Jones

DT - Mone, Hurst, Gary, Pallante, Dwumfour

LB - McCray, Bush, Furbush, Mbem-Bosse

CB - David Long, B. Watson, K. Washington, L. Hill

S - Peppers, Kinnel, Hudson

**I count more 4/5 star players right there than Don Brown has probably coached in his entire career. Yes, we will be inexperienced. No, we will not be talentless. And actually, 13 of those guys will be upper-classmen who have been through the ringer of Michigan football. I cannot wait for the challenge.**

Eye of the Tiger

April 20th, 2016 at 10:12 AM ^

Not entirely sure Peppers will be gone after 2016, though it would be silly to expect him to return.

And projecting 2017 is kind of hard when so many of the guys will only see their first significant PT in 2016. We'll have a better idea of who's likely to step up after this year.



Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

MGoStrength

April 20th, 2016 at 10:14 AM ^

Don't look at the offense! :/  We're gonna lose 3 o-lineman (Braden, Kalis, Mags), our top 2 RBs (Smith & Johnson), our all-everything TE (Butt), and our top 2 WRs (Darboh & Chesson).

 

2017 is undoubtly going to be a rebuilding year.  There will be a lot of young guys playing and guys without a ton of experience on both sides of the ball.  There is no way around that.  The good news is there are a lot of talented young guys and Harbaugh is recruting well.

Magnus

April 20th, 2016 at 10:25 AM ^

The offensive talent level, though, just isn't the same. Butt is good, but there are a number of talented guys behind him. Those offensive linemen haven't been anything special. Our "top 2 RBs" might not be the top two if Isaac beats out Johnson, and even so, Smith/Johnson aren't that special, anyway. I do like Darboh and Chesson at receiver and haven't seen their heirs apparent yet, but with 5 guys in the 2016 class and more coming in the 2017 class, I think we can find some quality replacements.

We're not only losing bodies on defense, but we're losing true standouts whose size and/or athleticism might not be able to be replaced.

MGoStrength

April 20th, 2016 at 3:08 PM ^

I totally agree...just driving home the point that 2017 is going to be a major rebuilding year.  We are losing some real quality players on defense.  Not only that, but it seems unavoidable there will be some guys playing that we have yet to see play a college snap.