February 7th, 2020 at 6:37 PM ^
sigh....
February 7th, 2020 at 6:37 PM ^
Well then, I'm not sure if I should feel better or worse about the program.
February 7th, 2020 at 6:51 PM ^
Yes; yes you should.
February 7th, 2020 at 6:43 PM ^
What does something like this point to considering how much we underperformed? Great player development but bad scheme?
February 7th, 2020 at 6:50 PM ^
Bingo!
February 7th, 2020 at 6:50 PM ^
How about you just root for the guys. It’s not like they’ll all go in the early rounds but the NFL respects our coaches and players...way more than the fans do. How’s that answer for you?
February 7th, 2020 at 11:55 PM ^
How about you are wrong.
February 8th, 2020 at 7:21 AM ^
Deleted. Forget it.
February 7th, 2020 at 6:50 PM ^
We did not underperform. We don’t recruit recruit well enough to expect more than what Harbaugh is giving us. HOPEFULLY if we can outperform a little bit, recruiting will have a breakthrough. But this idea that we recruit like a playoff team, and then fail miserably is just not based in fact. We finished #12 in SP+. That’s right about what you expect.
February 7th, 2020 at 7:57 PM ^
This might be the most accurate and intelligent comment on the internet. Restore Gucci’s points!
February 7th, 2020 at 8:32 PM ^
Thank you !! Unfortunately my takes are not always following the common thought process, so people will disagree. Which is healthy !
February 8th, 2020 at 3:41 AM ^
If I had 99 million spare points, I'd donate them to Gucci so that he'd be at only minus a million.
February 8th, 2020 at 6:09 AM ^
Not me---I'm saving my points for Christmas shopping this year!
February 7th, 2020 at 9:16 PM ^
Why post the S&P ranking not AP poll?
February 7th, 2020 at 10:17 PM ^
#10 in sp+ and #18 in AP #19 in coaches. Average recruiting class is around 10 or 11 in those 5 years before. Mix that in with a 3 terribly bad losses, but yeah Michigan football is right were they’re supposed to be. Also to not Auburn who beat Alabama is #9 in SP also 4 slots ahead of Minnesota who beat them, so the Sp+ rankings can kma
February 8th, 2020 at 12:21 AM ^
We had a 5 star QB and a 5 star WR. They both under performed. Why are other teams getting more out of their QB and #1 WR if ours have that elite recruiting status?
You can't blame the OL unless you admit they underperformed too considering 4/5 of that OL could/should get drafted this draft. Charbonnet was a borderline 5 star guy.
We had an entire starting offense of top recruits and NFL talent. Can you honestly tell me we didn't underperform on offense? You believe Harbaugh got as much out of this talent as every other coach could have?
We are closer to osu in recruiting than msu is to us yet msu has multiple recent victories against us and we have zero against osu.
We recruit like a top 10 team and play like a top 20 team.
February 8th, 2020 at 9:01 AM ^
Maybe it was their first year in a brand new offense?
February 8th, 2020 at 3:07 PM ^
Do you believe our coaches got the most out of our talent then?
Much of our offenses success was dependent on a QB who is good at the zone read and this was likely our starting QB's greatest weakness.
Our run game didn't work well until we abandoned our off-season game plan and started doing what was working last year on the ground.
Shouldn't a great staff recognize this and adjust the off-season offense instead of forcing a round peg into a square hole?
I believe there was a lot of learning in the fly for Gattis which reflected in our talent > our performance. It will be interesting to see how we look this year as I expect an improved Gattis. But there is no question we under performed.
February 7th, 2020 at 7:12 PM ^
Doing less with more.
February 7th, 2020 at 7:17 PM ^
Not sure how to take this. It's great for recruiting but how does this set up for next year's team and depth. Guess we'll just wait and see.
February 7th, 2020 at 7:27 PM ^
Do you have a list of those who were invited?
I would imagine Ruiz, Bredeson, DPJ, Uche, Hudson....
February 7th, 2020 at 7:43 PM ^
Shea.
February 7th, 2020 at 7:56 PM ^
For those wondering, here is the list of players who are invited.
Ben Bredeson, OL
Lavert Hill, DB
Khaleke Hudson, LB
Sean McKeon, TE
Josh Metellus, DB
Mike Onwenu, OL
Shea Patterson, QB
Donovan Peoples-Jones, WR
Cesar Ruiz, OL
Jon Runyan, OL
Josh Uche, LB
February 7th, 2020 at 8:30 PM ^
I'm not surprised by any of those. You?
February 7th, 2020 at 9:04 PM ^
Only one that is a big surprise for me is Shea. Not saying he was a bad QB, but didn't see anything this year that said "This Kid Should Be in the NFL". Missed open receivers with an inability to deliver an accurate ball over 20 yards. Decision making seemed less than elite too.
Oh well...someone once said "Shea is gonna be a 'G' in The League!". Maybe it will be true.
February 7th, 2020 at 9:09 PM ^
he'll have to bulk up (more than that PWO WR to be a DT) to be a G in The League
...
eh he's probably hanging out with John Daly enough to get a few pointers
February 7th, 2020 at 9:06 PM ^
All players with NFL potential. Wishing them the best, but unlikely they all get drafted due to athletic limitations.
February 8th, 2020 at 8:02 AM ^
Athletic limitations like this guy who looks like he never saw the inside of a weight room?
February 7th, 2020 at 9:23 PM ^
Not at all! All deserving!
February 7th, 2020 at 10:11 PM ^
So the only guys who were draft eligible and didn’t get invited were
DE Mike Danna
LB Jordan Glasgow
11/13 is a pretty good class
February 8th, 2020 at 12:04 AM ^
Speaking naively, Glasgow seems to be precisely the kind of guy who should be invited to a combine, decent but not great football player with what everyone assumes are physical limitations. Measure him and see if those limitations are real.
February 8th, 2020 at 1:40 AM ^
Sorry to hear that for Danna...he seemed to have a productive season. Wonder if he'd gotten invited last year after his stellar (by PFF) season at CMU.
February 7th, 2020 at 11:46 PM ^
Those 11 make up the vast majority of the best players on the team last season. No surprises there.
February 7th, 2020 at 7:59 PM ^
It means all teams are in play for Harbaugh obviously. Using his former players as a lure...so obvious!
February 7th, 2020 at 8:00 PM ^
MSU had 7 and they are awful. The number invited doesn’t necessarily mean everything. How many first round picks? We might have no one go in the first 2 rounds. Teams like OSU, Bama and LSU are going to dominate the first couple rounds. That’s the difference.
February 7th, 2020 at 8:11 PM ^
I agree. Quantity is not always > quality, but people like to bitch about something, so this point will get ignored.
February 7th, 2020 at 8:34 PM ^
Ruiz or Uche will absolutely be drafted in the first two rounds, likely both.
February 7th, 2020 at 8:43 PM ^
I’ve seen a couple mocks with Ruiz in the early 2nd. DPJ and Bredeson 3rd, right?
February 7th, 2020 at 8:03 PM ^
FYI....1. LSU (16) 2. Michigan/Ohio State (11) 4. Alabama/Georgia (10).
February 7th, 2020 at 8:31 PM ^
One of those teams is not like the other.
February 7th, 2020 at 8:35 PM ^
Has uga performed much better than uofm ? They recruit a lot better and don’t have a national title yet. If we were in Uga shoes best believe people here would be bitching about losing big games.
February 7th, 2020 at 9:20 PM ^
So 3 top ten, two top 5, a conference title, and a national title game appearance is underachieving now? But Michigan isn't?
February 8th, 2020 at 12:06 AM ^
True, but they've been in the playoff mix way more than us. Whether that's SEC perception or reality is for someone else to decide, but we have not put ourselves in the conversation like they have
February 8th, 2020 at 10:12 AM ^
We've been in the playoff mix 2 of the last 5 years, 2016 and 2018. Losses to OSU kept us out. Ranked in the Top 4 of the playoff rankings. Georgia was 3rd place in their division (sound familiar) in 2015-16, and have since been to 3 straight SEC championship games, and won one to get into the playoff once. So the difference is literally one year, which I would not say is "way more. "
February 7th, 2020 at 8:24 PM ^
Re: Questions about underachieving
Fans need to realize that there's a quantity *and* quality (i.e. magnitude) component to recruiting and player development.
How many of the 11 players invited are expected to be 1st rounders?
I made this comment in another thread:
"Btw, did you all know Michigan hasn't produced a 1st round NFL non-OL offensive player since Braylon Edwards in the 2005 NFL Draft?
That's one reason why Michigan has struggled to beat Ohio State."
Someone took exception to it and essentially believed I was cherry-picking and/or being too reductionist. I made another comment that got lost in the shuffle which I'll copy and paste here because it applies to this thread.
1. There's nothing cherry picked about it.
Ezekiel Elliott was the best player on the field in a game against Alabama. His game-clinching long TD run through Alabama's defense showed he was an elite next level player.
Do you think it's an accident that Clemson has become a dominant force in college football? Dabo's coaching staff has sent players like WR Sammy Watkins, QB Deshaun Watson, WR Mike Williams in the 1st round.
Btw, pre-Saban Alabama had the same problem Michigan does now. From 2001 to 2008, Alabama had zero - ZERO - 1st round draft picks.
Here's Alabama's 1st round picks after Alabama won a MNC in 2009.
2010: 2
2011: 4
2012: 4
2013: 3
2014: 2
2015: 1
2016: 1
2017: 4
2018: 4
2019: 3
Talk about a change in culture. Alabama went from 0 picks in the 1st round round in 8 years to having 27 in 10 years.
Here's some of the quality 1st round skill players Alabama has on offense in the NFL:
WR Julio Jones, WR Amari Cooper, RB Mark Ingram, WR Calvin Ridley, TE OJ Howard.
And that's not including other non-1st rounders like RB Derrick Henry (2nd rounder).
2. Do you want to do a side-by-side on 2nd and 3rd rounders as well between Michigan and Ohio State?
Ohio State had stars like Michael Thomas in the 2nd round. Curtis Samuel and Devin Smith were also picked in 2nd round.
Do you know the highest non-OL offensive drafted from Michigan in the past 10 NFL Drafts (re: since 2010)?
2015 NFL Draft - Devin Funchess in the 2nd round
The next highest? Amara Darboh near the very end of the 3rd round in the 2017 NFL Draft.
And neither is lighting up the NFL the way Thomas is.
That's 10 freaking drafts. 0 1st round picks. We need to target better talent.
NFL is always hungry for talent. It's not like the NFL has recently been wrong about any of the M players who were drafted low (like it was about Tom Brady).
--------
TL;DR version:
Our offense improved in 2019 but it was partially scheme based. None of the players leaving are dominant, lock-to-be 1st rounders.
We've churned out a number of 1st rounders on defense (Peppers, Charlton, Bush). We haven't produced similar levels of 1st round talent at non-OL positions on offense in the Harbaugh era. (Tangent: Hurst would've been a 1st rounder if not for the heart condition.)
February 7th, 2020 at 9:08 PM ^
"non-OL offensive player"? That's not cherry picking at all...
February 7th, 2020 at 9:27 PM ^
I mean...
We have Tom Brady in the NFL on offense. And then who else that is a (super)star or even a quality player?
I looked at the Pro Bowl and All-Pro lists. Where are the Pro Bowl RBs, WRs, or TEs from Michigan?
Who's our next Tyrone Wheatley? Tim Biakabutuka? ATrain? Amani Toomer?(First 2 were 1st rounders. The next 2 were 2nd rounders.)
(Remember how Harbaugh was supposed to churn out stars at the TE position? Iowa has done a better job of that with George Kittle, Noah Fant, TJ Hockenson.)
We don't even have anyone as good as Mario Manningham (3rd round pick) to currently represent Michigan at the WR position.
You can have your head in the sand. I won't.
Do you realize that if a young Michigan fan started pre-K in 2005, that individual is now in college and hasn't seen us beat a ranked Ohio State team or win the Big Ten in 15 years and counting...
February 7th, 2020 at 10:53 PM ^
You couldn't be more right in your assessment.
One of the best takes I've read in a looooooong time.
February 8th, 2020 at 12:50 AM ^
While i agree with basically everything you are saying, you have one misleading part. Those Alabama first round draft picks are essentially all defensive players.
February 8th, 2020 at 1:42 AM ^
That's the perception.
I created an excel spreadsheet of Alabama's draft picks to parse one side of the ball from the other. Yes, there are a lot of defensive players and OL from Alabama taken in the 1st round.
But look at the other names I included:
- WR Julio Jones
- WR Amari Cooper
- RB Mark Ingram
- WR Calvin Ridley
- TE OJ Howard
And Alabama will add at least another in Jerry Jeudy and probably Tua Tagovailoa.
We have nothing like that. Michigan will have had 0 1st round offensive skill player picks in over 15 years now...