why the offense started clicking

Submitted by ish on
The offense started to move the ball when it passed to set up the run.  Traditionally offenses rush to loosen the defense for the pass.  In passing to set up the run, RR sort of abandoned his spread-option/zone read, for a more traditional offense that worked on this particular day.  That worries me.  He knows the personnel he has and seems a little stubborn.  He transitioned to a more traditional scheme at halftime.  Admittedly halftime is the time to make adjustments, but IMO it was obvious well before the half that an adjustment was needed and his failure to adjust is attributable to wanting to win his way.  He faces a tough decision - if he continues to use a more pro-style offense we'll probably see more success and slow the transition to a fulltime spread-option/zone read team.  If Threet succeeds fans will insist on keeping him as the starter even if RR wants to use a more mobile qb next year (Beaver or Forcier), who is more suited to RR's scheme.  I think using a greater mix of pro-style formations gives us a better chance to win this year, but I'm not sure RR wants to do it that way.

Comments

orillia

September 28th, 2008 at 12:03 AM ^

Agreed- RR said he can adjust his scheme to match his talent. If teams are allowed to pack 8 guys at the line of scrimmage the "O" - line is too inexperienced to handle that. Throwing down field seems to open things up.

brown

September 28th, 2008 at 12:15 AM ^

This is true. They ran zone read left about 9 time in the first half, which I understand because ND never figured out how to stop it. Once the coaches realized that wasn't going to work they went with the pass which finally set up the Minor inside give

gsimmons85

September 28th, 2008 at 12:42 AM ^

but we are a spread team, that runs some power formations from time to time... we were running the spread in the first and running the spread in the second... we were throwing the ball in the first half, and we sucked at it, we started thrwoing it in the second, and it was working better. Our exectuion was better, we calmed down and started making plays... it wasnt a whole lot of x and o adjustments at half time... more passes, becasue we were down 19, and we were having a hard time running it, but other than that we just exectued better... i agree with the throwing on first down more, but that has nothing to do with the type of offense, michigan was a run to set up the pass type of offense way before RR showed up...

NorCalGoBloo

September 28th, 2008 at 12:48 AM ^

to start the game? Open up space for the zone reads by passing in a pro-style-ish pass-happy scheme. I think thats the way to put more opposing defenses off balance (and see more Steven Threet 50+ yard runs!)

gsimmons85

September 28th, 2008 at 1:08 AM ^

it has something to do with the fact that threet couldnt hit a truck in the first half.  cant pass if you cant complete a pass, or throw ints... rather run and punt... and he was running for his life a lot as well... could be the recievers were not running the right route,  to me the best thing they did, was just lock on to mathews in the 2nd half, the only reciever that has played in this type of situation before..

 

Henne for Heis…

September 28th, 2008 at 12:51 AM ^

I agree with gsimmsons that execution was very key in the second half. Personally I'd like to see more pro-set plays because it does seem the players are more familiar with them. I think play-action passing would mesh well with Threet's talents. Love Threet, but the guy's passing touch is just not quite there yet.

gsimmons85

September 28th, 2008 at 1:13 AM ^

how are the guys more familar with pro?  threet has been running the spread since last december... same with the upper classmen,   freshmen since they showed up on campus, we are not a pro team we are a spread team,  that can run power in short yardage situation,  are formation in the second half were the smae ones we used in the first half...

gsimmons85

September 28th, 2008 at 2:33 AM ^

has problems with mechanics and reading defenses etc out of the spread where he is facing the defense the whole time, no way in heck it would be better to put him in situations where he has to turn his back to the defense, then re asses coverages etc after the play fake...  

GeoTracker

September 28th, 2008 at 5:02 AM ^

RichRod has been pass happy in the past with Shaun King. So he may have just finally decided to go deep in the bag of plays and dust off the pass plays. I'm just glad we stopped being predictable with the spread. Predictability will kill any offense.

goody

September 28th, 2008 at 9:33 AM ^

getting your ass chewed during halftime to get you to play better in the second half. I would have loved to been in that locker room. I imagine it went something like, "hold on to the $%#^%$# ball!!!!" Repeated about a dozen times.

gsimmons85

September 28th, 2008 at 10:29 AM ^

i dont think thats what happend.  the young players were rattled, they were questioning thier skills, their coaches,  if they made the right decsion,  all of that stuff, it was snowballing.  I got a feeling that locerroom was morea bout calming people down,  working on the very specific technique, and execution problems that they needed to adress, and then a little pep talk.  I bet it was all posiitve, and very little screeming and yelling.  You could just see how shell shocked everyone was at half, and every good coach knows when to negativly motivate, and when to positively motivate

Blue Durham

September 28th, 2008 at 3:58 PM ^

and I actually thought the players were pressing in the first half to make a play by themselves (particularly the return that was fumbled).  The first half was not a result of a lack of effort.

But I did think that in the second half the offense theatened to throw the ball medium to long (rather than the short horizontal stuff) and this helped to back off the secondary some.

NJWolverine

September 28th, 2008 at 11:32 AM ^

This game reminded me a lot of the Minnesota game where they fell behind by three touchdowns before finally throwing the ball and winning the game. Can anyone tell me what the difference is between running Mike Hart to the left and that option sweep to the left they tried to do (unsuccessfully) with McGuffie the ENTIRE FIRST HALF? Answer, there was no difference. It was almost shocking when you realized what was going on. This is the problem you have when your QB isn't a threat to run. The offense becomes as predictable as it was under the previous regime. Plus, against physical teams, you're far better off with Minor than McGuffie. Minor had 2 carries. One was the TD. The other was the same sweep play they ran with McGuffie, except instead of losing 3 yards, Minor fought off the first two tacklers and lunged for a 3 yard gain. I'm all for running the ball, but against physical defenses (like Penn State or Ohio State), you're better off with Minor because Threet simply can't run the option. Against more porous defense (like Illinois), then McGuffie can take those handoffs. I think RR has FINALLY understood that PAT WHITE IS NOT ON HIS TEAM. I think if you listened to the presser and him saying Threet was the best guy they had, you'd realize that. Hopefully now he'll use Threet's strength and understand that the option won't work. Running the ball is still fine and a few more looks other than the dangerously familiar run left would help (maybe some more slot guys), but it's clear Threet is a drop back QB, so just use him as such and wait for Beaver or Forcier to develop.

KzooRick

September 28th, 2008 at 11:31 AM ^

I thought there was a definite difference in play calling in the 2nd half. They did alot of passing from the spread but not so much the spread option types of run faking passes. I think this was better suited to Threet's abilities and helped him stay calm. They also did a good job finding some easy passes for him to complete at the beginning to give him some confidence. Then, when they did run an option play Wisconsin was not ready for it and miss played it and Threet was able to go for 50 yards. The offense they ran in the second half looked more like what NE runs with Brady with passing opening inside running plays from the shotgun.

gsimmons85

September 28th, 2008 at 11:48 AM ^

but that happends also because there was more offensive plays. threet was terrible throwing the ball in the first,  recievers and qb were not on the same page on numerous occassions.  In the second half he  started throwing it better,  exectuing the pass is what got wisconsin on its heels.  COnfidence in threet to make the right play and exectue gave michigan the opportunity to throw it more.  You mean you would throw the ball MORE in the first half when threet couldnt complete anything, except to the other team?   how your kids are exectuing,  what the matchups are like, and what the defense is doing well, all dictate what an OC can call.

NJWolverine

September 28th, 2008 at 2:39 PM ^

Threet is more comfortable throwing the ball from the shotgun than trying to run the spread option, which by now should be obvious to everyone (even RR), that it simply can't happen. Imagine if you were in Threet's position and you have to try to explode through a hole on your frame and your speed. It just isn't comfortable. But if you're only being asked to throw the ball (something you can actually do), then you get a couple out of the way and develop a rhythm. I just think RR needs to realize (finally), that Threet can't run the spread option. He should run the spread pass and then run Minor over the middle and McGuffie on draw plays. This is precisely how our offense was run last year in the bowl game. It's the closest thing to the spread he can run now with the players we have.

GeoTracker

September 28th, 2008 at 3:32 PM ^

I think in the second half we saw Threet pass from 3-5 step drops and not rollouts or on the run. I think when he passes on the run he forgets to set his feet, I would blame that mostly on nerves and expect it to go away over time. When the coaches adjusted for that with the play calls, we see Threet drilling his receivers in the numbers.

chitownblue (not verified)

September 28th, 2008 at 3:46 PM ^

Holy fuck, do you understand how dumb you sound? Rich Rod didn't understand, for 3 games, that Pat White wasn't on the team? Are you fucking kidding? Is Rich Rodriguez a sentient being? I think he is, right? I mean, he's not a 2 year old who needs to be reminded to shit in the toilet - I think he knows WHO IS ON HIS FUCKING ROSTER. Maybe, JUST maybe, after seeing these kids practice for hours every single day for 3 months, he knows what he has better than someone watching on television who took some snaps at MLB in middle school. Maybe.

Lordfoul

September 29th, 2008 at 8:37 AM ^

RichRod just kept a team of very young and inexperienced players from throwing in the towel when everyone expected them to.  THAT IS GREAT COACHING!  It is rediculous to fault him for the mental errors and execution mistakes of the first half offense.  They are a bunch of freshmen!  Get over yourself, ish, and realize you are not a coach.  You can't even recognize great coaching.  You probably wanted to see Sheridan at QB too.  Sheesh.

chitownblue (not verified)

September 28th, 2008 at 3:47 PM ^

And people who think that Minor's TD had anything to do with Minor being awesome patently don't understand football. My Grandfather could have wheeled through that fucking hole in his wheelchair for a TD. Any back on the team would have scored on that play.

Ziff72

September 29th, 2008 at 9:20 AM ^

The hole was wide ass open but some backs may have not scored there including Grady.  Minor is very fast and made that a TD based on his cut and a horrible decision by the safety.  Your grandpa gets 15 scooting thru the line but not a TD.

chitownblue (not verified)

September 28th, 2008 at 3:49 PM ^

And finally (too many posts!) the notion that RR doesn't like calling passing plays, or hasn't run a passing offense, are, again, stupid. Shaun King and Woody Dantzler, under Rodriguez both had better passing years than Henne did in his entire career.

hat

September 28th, 2008 at 10:07 PM ^

We definitely threw more on first down in the second half. I don't know if it was due to the consistently bad field position, or Threet's ineffectiveness, or a lack of faith in McGuffie as a pass-protector, but we had a Mike DeBord-like first down running percentage in the first half.

 We also definitely threw more vertical passes. That might have been a function of us having better pass protection in the second half. Ferrara was replaced by McAvoy at the half and that definitely helped. Ferrara was having a rough, rough game.

As for Threet running the read option - I don't see what the problem is. We're not doing it that much (Threet officially had nine carries, but that included a few scrambles), and when we do run it, it's often effective. We scored a TD on it against Miami and got the 58-yarder yesterday. Threet is really good at selling the fake, and the thing is, if you force the opposing DC to have to account for your QB's running ability, that forces him to commit a defender that would otherwise be focused elsewhere.  When defenses don't respect Threet's running ability, he can make them pay (89 yards yesterday).  If they do put a LB to spy on him, that weakens their ability to stop our TB or cover the middle of the field on pass plays. 

M-Dog

September 28th, 2008 at 11:27 PM ^

Rich is handcuffed somewhat by the bowl streak. It is one of the things that defines us, and is a beast that needs to be fed.

He needs to do what is necessary to keep it alive with the players he has while mixing in Spread-School where he can. It does slow down the transition to an effective spread-option/zone read team, and probably delays top drawer success for the program.

But it lets him live to fight another day. After the messy buyout situation, the Braylon #1 thing, the perception by many that he does not get the OSU rivalry, his outsider status, etc., he does not need any unnecessary grief from the vultures.

The full glory RR Spread will have to be delayed this year, maybe next.  Rich just won't have the horses to run the WVU/Fiesta Bowl offense effectively.

Interestingly enough with the progress of Threet, he may have the horses to take a creditable shot at the Michigan/Capital One Bowl offense. 

 

 

J. Lichty

September 28th, 2008 at 11:19 PM ^

appeared to stem from the fact that the d-line was getting penetration giving the runner no seams to run through. For the zone stretch to work (whether off a read option or not), the o-line must at the very least hold the point of attack at the los. In the second half, the o-line was actually able to fire off the los at times, giving a little more running room. Further, to suggest that Threet was not running a read option in the second half is ludicrous. Did you notice the play where he ran for 50 yards? I completely agree with Gsimmons (and am glad I actually understood what he was talking about). The offense was the same in the second half, it just performed better. Yes, there were some good play calls and good reads by Threet, but that is what was intended in the first half. It seems that the offensive team was a little intimidated at first and Wisconsin D line was aggressive. The line lost confidence (also note that Ferrara was starting in the first half as well which probably disrupted things too.) McAvoy did a better job. Overall the team cannot afford to spot teams this many points. They need to take care of the football, and the O-line has to play like it did in the second half for this team to have a chance, but if it does that, it is no worse than a middle of the pack B10 team, on par with MSU, Wisconsin, Purdue, NW and Illinois. I think PSU and OSU are still a lot better than M, but the other teamas are not so much better that we should think we will lose every game. We will lose some of them and the other teams mentioned are capable of playing well also. We could lose to all of them, but the gap is not terribly wide.

jamiemac

September 29th, 2008 at 11:23 AM ^

...Pat White is not walking through that door?!?!?! WTF!?!?!?! Um, adjustments, whatever. We came back because Threet finally started throwing accurate passes....and looked at other receivers instead of Odoms. Thats the key, right there. Thought it as I watched it from my seats. Confirmed when rewatching it on tape. Go Blue!

jamiemac

September 29th, 2008 at 11:25 AM ^

....it might have also had something to do with putting consecutive quarters together without a turnover. We had 12 the previous six quarters and spent the whole time in that stretch down by double digits. We go two Q's with no giveaways and pull of the biggest home comeback in UM Stadium History. I dont know. Maybe there's a correlation there.

mth822

October 2nd, 2008 at 4:58 AM ^

The more I read posts the more I also feel it was a collection of things. I commented on the offensive breakdown that I also feel the pass opened up the run. I think it's a natural observation to say that when you mentally reference the first and second halves of this year so far. It's just going to be a fine line on what plays to call. It's their baby, McGee and RR. I know they know what they'd like to call to get into that rhythm. But when they have 1st halves like weve been having. Those numbers will put you further in the hole against better teams. Just don't see them going toe to toe and producing a quality smash mouth running game. I know the spread is not that. But it seems the only way any rhythm or forward motion is produced is when the pass opens up for them to run.