Will Campbell = CHAOS
Will Campbell flew down to the Army All-American game yesterday and dropped a bomb on Michigan fans:
Although Campbell still denies a leader and maintains he favors Miami, Michigan, LSU, Alabama and Florida, in-state favorite Michigan now seems like a long shot. "I'm really looking to get away from here," Campbell said. "I liked my other visits and I'm thinking of seeing something new. I'm thinking about leaving Michigan."
He repeated this to a number of other people (one example); it's no fluke. Commence red alert and all that, OMG death etc etc etc. Then last night mods on the premium sites started posting items that ranged from cautiously suggesting Michigan probably isn't 100% out to "Campbell is coming to Michigan, but I will use my infuriating pidgin to communicate this."
The great hope here is that Campbell is attempting to add drama to a recruitment long considered a foregone conclusion even before a William Campbell showed up in the Michigan directory on the same day Tate Forcier, Vincent Smith, and the rest of Michigan's early-enrolling squad of folks did.
Is this a plausible hope? Eh… maybe. The Campbell recruitment is different than that of Nick Perry or Ronald Johnson. There was never any consensus on Perry's destination. Johnson was supposedly a Michigan lock but that information was solely provided by moderators at the premium sites and never had any outside corroboration. In Campbell's case we've had reports from random people about conversations with Campbell or his teammates or people close to the situation that indicated he was coming to Michigan. There's a ton of evidence out there, and even if that "evidence" is the shaky anonymous internet variety it's prolific enough that it seems credible.
But it's really hard to look direct quotes in the face and conclude they mean nothing. If Campbell was looking to inject drama into his decision, he's succeeded.
that we idolize these kids, then get upset when they starting believing us....that college football has become an industry and that, for some strange reason, industrial rules are taking hold...
Infinity can only happen once. Think about that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwGXMryTbwE
More important than Will Campbell is a Damn Defensive Coordinator. And one who can last more than a year with our new ball coach. That,"may," solidify the recruiting things some. It's tough enough keeping kids in state when SOCAL and South Florida are on the phone recruiting kids in Mid December! Find a coach, work out an amicable plan and recruit guys who like Michigan Football.
Will if you go, dont look back amigo, dont look back.
Is it just me or is everything that could go wrong going wrong for the new coach? It's like no matter what happens people just look for an excuse and try and find an example of that problem elsewhere. However, I dare you to find another school that's gone on a 16 month long hell ride like Michigan is on. And if you think of one what shape is that school's program in now?
I'm trying not to think that way, but I'm starting to. There's always a reason/excuse for what is going on, but too many bad things are happening. Hopefully, this all smooths over shortly and we can just write this off to bad luck or something. Hopefully.
As a father of boys who, I hope, will one day have to deal with this recruiting system, I would sure like to see it change a great deal. One way to avoid the problems of the unofficial verbal commitments (for example, other QBs looked elsewhere once Beaver and Forcier "committed") would be to allow schools to offer kids any time they wanted. However, those offers would be open until withdrawn, and binding whenever accepted. Sure, you think some freshman tailback is the Adrian Peterson? Great, give him an offer, but if he accepts and never grows past 5'5", you're stuck with him.
I would like to see a system like this very much. It would help with the Beaver/Campbell (potential) problem, and with the Barnes situation (a kid who might have been screwed had he kept thinking Michigan wanted him).
That sounds great, except I don't think I like the idea of locking a 13/14/15 year old kid into a college contract. A lot of the time they remove their commitment because it ends up not being the right choice for them. A lot of the time they don't know what they really want when they graduate... how are they supposed to know when they're freshmen? I understand that in that situation you'd have them refrain from committing, but kids that young are often easily persuaded.
I think it would be a rare problem. Football is so unpredictable that I don't see coaches making offers to freshmen that the coaches would also be stuck with. So, this would make a coach more careful about who he offers, as well.
By the way, I also think both coach and player could get out of the contract if they agree before a certain time period.
Or, heck, just make this start the summer before the kids' senior years, but tell the coach he is stuck with kids he accepts. Coaches will make only really serious offers, kids will accept whenever they want, and the predictability for everyone is increased.
Midwest values = casseroles. Lots and lots of casseroles.
The five-star recruits will be lining up.
I'd line up, but then, I haven't eaten all day.
Something smells of the decommits. Like other coaches/players/programs are spreading hate, rumor, whatever about Michigan and RR. Seems the recruiting game has gotten awfully dirty in this day and age of "I want it all and I want it NOW."
Some have commented lack of a DC may be affecting Will Campbell's decision. Does that also mean that since Auburn just hired away Tulsa's OC, that we can expect Shavodrick Beaver to either bolt to Auburn or come back to Michigan?
I'm fine with coaches telling UM recruits that they would find a better fit somewhere else, but it is kind of a sad day when grown men are chasing after 17-year-old kids, promising them the world, and then (usually) treating them as nothing more than cogs in a machine once they sign the LOI. I'm sure recruiting has always been like this (some of the stories you read about Bear Bryant certainly give pause), but it has become such a circus that the Internet (not necessarily at MGoBlog) unleashes immense vitriol on high-schoolers not so much because they went somewhere else, but because they jerked everyone around forever (e.g. Pryor).
Les Miles was rumored to bad-mouth Michigan prior to snake oiling Jai Eugene. Thus the non-support from Carr regarding Miles' hiring. If WC dons an LSU cap on Saturday, I will be very skeptical of Miles.
M is toight
Right. I'm sure NOBODY on the Michigan coaching staff, both former and current, EVER bad mouthed a coach from another school to a potential recruit. Seriously, the high horse that some of you put our program on is just ridiculous.
"I'm Leslie E. Miles and I approve of this message."
I'm sure EVERY single program recruits the EXACT same way Jay.
If the basketball rules are similar to the football rules, Crater would not be eligible for a scholarship at Michigan after leaving OSU. So I suspect the likelihood of him coming to AA as very low.
Go Blue!! Viva La Revolucion!!
www.wolverineliberationarmy.com
...was a player from Flint, apparently now leaving O$U. Think Beilein will pursue him?
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3796388
I don't blame the kid for wanting to go somewhere else if he feels it is a better fit academically/socially, and I can completely understand why a kid from Detroit would love to go to Miami and play in the sun in front of apathetic fans (better than in the cold with near-suicidal fans). What bugs me about this whole process is that, starting with Beaver and continuing with Campbell, the decommitments of the big-name kids seem to come out of nowhere. Yes, I know that Campbell officially decommitted a while back, but all signs were pointing to him signing with UM until this weekend. Same with Beaver. I'm not sure what is happening when these kids visit other programs, but if RR is peddling snake-oil I can only imagine that the coaches at Tulsa and LSU/Miami/Florida are dousing themselves in mongoose sweat.
Works better than mongoose sweat and does not smell so stinky.
M'Dog
We have some very good talent coming for the D-line in Roh and Lalota, on top of proven talent (Martin) already there. Even without "Big Will" we have the #8 recruiting class in the nation according to Rivals. So chill out. Yes, it sucks if we dont get him, but we'll be ok (as long as Forcier doesn't back out).
From the sounds of his interest in himself, warm weather and whatnot, thid kid may turn out to be more Gabe Watson than Alan Branch. Finally, can you blame a kid from Detroit for wanting to get as far away from home as he can?? It's a wonder he didn't committ to USC.
I don't think those recruiting rankings have been updated since the Beaver decommitment.
"I'm Leslie E. Miles and I approve of this message."
Actually they have. We were #7 with Beaver and recently dropped to #8.
The sky is not falling. Campbell is already decomitted. We have an excellent recruiting class so far despite the decomittments and we will be better than we were last year.
If Campbell decides to go elsewhere, the team will survive and will get better over the next couple years.
I am sure the coaching staff is analyzing each decomittment to see what they could do differently, if anything, to stop the decomittments, but short of not offering guys who may not be fully committed, I think it is a risk that is inherent in recruiting.
In general, the staff knows who they can count on and who they can't and are recruiting accordingly.
I think we will be happy with the class, Campbell or not.
That being said, I still think he ends up at Michigan. I put a lot of stock in what his mother said after his official visit.
We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now. - Bruce Coslet
there is no such thing as a de-comittment from a mythical "verbal comittment". The NCAA does not recognize "verbal comittments".
If it ain't in writing, it didn't happen.
When they start de-comitting from LOI's, then we can worry.
M'Dog
LOI's are binding, fyi.
not just "douchey" MGoBlog user, but now TRUSTED MGoBlog user
Go be Princeton if you want.
I'd rather win.
Infinity can only happen once. Think about that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwGXMryTbwE
I think something is not right in RichRodland when we lose both Beaver and Campbell, two of our highest rated commits at two of our neediest positions. We have to be concerned that with Campbell leaving, we will have lost significant in-state recruiting. The state's best players are going to warmer climes like Florida, California, Louisiana, and while this began under LC's regime, RichRod has not stopped the bleeding. It may be getting worse.
and Campbell is not just playing around then Rich Rod has some serious damage control to do. I know it's just an 18-year old kid and all that but it's Michigan's only realistic shot this year at landing a 5-star. Psychologically it would be a huge win for RR and Michigan. It may sway other solid recruits that are on the fence.
Do you think not having a DC could be hurting the cause? I think the sooner RR names a DC the better.
M is toight
You can't define "how much this matters" Chitown. Fact is: it matters. A lot.
Social Spelunking since 1996
I think you might not be viewing this page as threaded. My comment about over-stating how much it matters was directed at the poster who suggests that Michigan assigning him a uniqname pushed Campbell away. I'm not suggesting losing Campbell doesn't matter.
Yeah, I misread the thread. I also find it amusing that I told you that you couldn't quantify that sort of thing and then stated that "it matters" as though I can quantify it. Intellectually lazy I be.
Social Spelunking since 1996
this is arguably the worst recruiting year ever...even after all the de-commits, i managed to survive past the bryce mcneal, the beaver de-commits, etc...but this is gonna straight up suck if he de-commits
im just praying that he's joking around and that he pulls out a michigan hat from nowhere but if he dosent, its gonna hit hard
Brutal loss if he commits elsewhere.
BILG
Let the process play out and let him make his announcement. For Christ's sake, some of you guys scare me. Yes, it would be a punch in the dick if he left the state, but please. I have been following recruiting for some years now, and this season has proven why I should just pick up the paper after signing day to see who we got. The inception of recruiting sites like Rivals has made a circus out of the process (and I'm guilty of following it). The fact that a newspaper and these sites broke that his name (or a name similar to his) appeared in the student directory probably stole his thunder of Saturday's announcement. I don't know if he's just playing with us or not, but my God, life does not stop and start at the verbal of an 18-year-old.
My sentiments exactly. Thanks for saying it.
"...compete with schools that recruit players with Snoop Dogg, Luther Campbell, and a bunch of stripper-quality women."
Who freakin' cares? And what is wrong with stripper quality women? And if that crap works, why not do it here? This Michigan Man myth crap is getting fairly revolting. Probably why we are losing so many recruits. Its bad enough we have such sucky weather, maybe some booze and celebs and broads will get us some of these recruits.
Infinity can only happen once. Think about that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwGXMryTbwE
because grown men suckering teenagers into playing football for them by using celebrities and sex is morally abominable. I would rather see Michigan become the equivalent of Princeton basketball than have them do that. Otherwise we fans might just as well follow Big Brother 9 or Win a Chance to Be Degraded by a Former Child Star or whatever other swill is on TV.
"That's horrible"
"Terrible is what it is."
To pretend that Michigan somehow occupies a moral high-ground after seeing the Basketball team stripped of scholarships and put on probation for giving cars and cash to players requires one to put their heads in the sand.
You can claim that was years ago, and be correct, but so was Luther Campbell's involvement at Miami. There haven't been any substiantive allegations against them in the Coker or Shannon years, nor has there been anything of note against LSU. You're just making up blind characterizations of programs based on no fact.
"Michigan" or "Michigan's basketball program" was put on probation for giving cars, cash etc?
I recall a booster named Martin doing this, and a lack of institutional control, but I do not ever recall Michigan or it's basketball program giving cars and cash to players.
I think that this is a very important distinction... or did I miss something and the University or its BBall program was doing this?
You're correct - the University didn't give them anything.
But, Eric was talking about parties thrown by fans, the FSU Cowgirls, and other non-University sanctioned groups in his posts, so the comparison is still apt.
Also, FWIW, while Michigan didn't give the kids any money, they did allow Ed Martin access to their players.
I was just taking exception to background you laid. Allowing Ed Martin was in bad judgment, and Fisher ignoring all of the waring signs (player driving around in SUV's) was worse. But they don't compare to when a University actively participated in it.
Ellipses man is back, posting as "bluebloodedfan." Can't wait for Dex to mix it up with him again.
Google "Florida State Cowgirls." ...More, there's a kid going to Oklahoma this year whose blog chronicled how Texas recruited him and other guys with hot girls who led them around campus and, if they wanted, had sex with them. The kid said he was really put off and it was a big reason he chose Oklahoma (who didn't do that)...We've all seen Snoop Dogg and co. at USC games...Am I extrapolating out a bit to guess that Florida, LSU, and Miami engage in the same kind of tactics in the win-at-all costs SEC/south? Yes, yes I am.
Yes, the basketball team had serious problems in the '90's. Big Ten football, though, just doesn't generally sell kids on the kind of superficial crap that USC and the southern schools do.
Do you really think no major schools are cleaner than others? I went to the Univ. of Kansas when Roy Williams was there and I feel comfortable saying, by virtue of having known the women's basketball team (who all knew the men's team), that Williams' teams were really pretty damn clean.
"That's horrible"
"Terrible is what it is."
You've given lots of opinions and allegations. Back it up. Show me this kid's blog. Rather than saying "you really think they're not dirty?" give me a reason to think it.
And what about the FSU Cowgirls? They're 4 chicks who go to Florida State games in skimpy tops and cowboy hats. Like thousands of girls do at every school ever (maybe minus the cowboy hats). They got shown on TV and made a canny business move in getting paid to put bikini photos online and appear in Maxim. What does that have to do with shit? They're not University sanctioned, and they don't make a policy out of fucking football players from what I can tell.
And how does Snoop Dogg's presence at a sporting event equal some evidence of malfeasance? I mean, Nick Lachey's a fan, too. Does Russell Crowe coming to speak to our team mean something? I'm confused.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/26/sports/ncaafootball/26recruit.html?pag...
I'm not much for making internet links, but the above was recently in the NY Times. The story was exagerated to me when I was told about it but I think the general idea holds up.
My point, anyway, is that U of M doesn't have Cowgirls involved in recruiting (I know the Cowgirls are involved in FSU recruiting b/c I've seen it on Outside the Lines on ESPN -and no I didn't tape the broadcast).
"That's horrible"
"Terrible is what it is."
OK, so he doesn't say that girls were encouraged to have sex with him. He said there was a party thrown by fans in which there was a lot of drinking and drugs, and women removed their tops, and some made out with each other.
I played Club lacrosse (and I can assure you, was not being aggressiveley recruited), and I saw this at Michigan.
I have hearsay stories from a bunch of different people too but I'm guessing that's just not going to make the nut. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree and get back to caring too much about what a bunch of teenagers do with a funny-shaped ball.
"That's horrible"
"Terrible is what it is."
There was a hot rumor going around here last year that the greek community offered a prize to the hottest sorority girl to sleep with Pryor on his visit.
great and omniscient Grand Poobah of the WLA
Don't accept any excuses about the system either. You start building a 3-3-5 with the nose. He would probably be featured in the future defense. But heed not my friends, we only want people whom want to be here. Whom desire to be Michigan men. Not maybe want to play a little ball for a football team called Michigan. Remember that before you jump off the roof. I hope he comes to Michigan. I wish it for him and for us. He will get a better education and overall college experience here. Don't sell your soul over one 3-9 season. Be patient and build it right. Go Blue!!!
"I've been to a few third world countries...including Mississippi."
This is just downright odd. It's really hard to imagine an 18-year-old lying as well and as boldly as that Rivals video would suggest if Campbell is still coming to Michigan...I do think that it's worth remembering that U of M will always lose some top-notch players to schools in warmer climates...Anybody who just wants to party and make it to the NFL will end up going south or west. Michigan can't - and shouldn't - compete with schools that recruit players with Snoop Dogg, Luther Campbell, and a bunch of stripper-quality women. I don't mean to say that this is what swayed Will Campbell (assuming he's been swayed). I do mean to say that U of M will always lose some 5-star guys to this.
"That's horrible"
"Terrible is what it is."
Snoop Dog, Luther Campbell and stripper quality women = "Southern family thing"?!?! This was the reason for heading South on the interview. Hopefully things like an education from a great school, a great football team and Midwest values still mean something.
Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value.
"Midwest Values"?