Post-Release Three And Out Q&A: Part II Comment Count

Ace

Brian has already fled the scene for whereabouts unknown, but he left behind part the second of John U. Bacon's Q&A. If you're looking for part one, click here.

8) FIRING PROCESS.

What did Dave Brandon say in his 2 hour meeting with Rich Rod the day before he was fired? Everyone including Rodriguez thought he'd be fired so why string it out like that?

Good question. Rodriguez told me that night in his home, between the two meetings, that he believed Brandon hoped that afternoon that Rodriguez would make it easy for him by conceding that things hadn’t gone as planned, it was all too much, and Rodriguez was ready to negotiate his departure. Rodriguez thought Brandon was surprised to see Rodriguez digging in his heels, asserting his eagerness to coach a fourth season, and displaying his confidence that 2011 would be the year his team would take off.

That night, Rodriguez told me he was “90-percent certain” Brandon would fire him the next day, which he did, “as expected,” as Rodriguez told his assistants after the meeting. For his part, Brandon stated at the press conference that he was still tossing the question over in his mind that very morning, though – as I wrote in the book – that seems very unlikely for such a calculating man.

So, why drag it out? Since this boils down to speculation, something I’ve tried to avoid, your guess is as good as mine. The book does point out, however, the indisputable effects the delay had on Rodriguez, his players, and the program, which don’t require speculation, namely: Rodriguez declined Maryland’s offer in December, which would have provided a safe haven for him, his coaches, and any players who might want to transfer, particularly Denard Robinson. It gave Brandon more time to set the stage for Brady Hoke, a relative unknown at the time. And, after the Gator Bowl, it made it very difficult for even Rodriguez’s most fervent supporters to defend retaining him. Whether these results were intended or not, they certainly helped pave the way for Brandon to hire Hoke, and for Hoke to succeed, with the team intact.
 
9) HYPOTHETICAL 2011.

Did Rich Rod ever hint at changes that would be made to his staff if he was retained for 2011?

He told me he was definitely going to make changes. With a few games to go in the 2010 season – after the Illinois game, I believe -- when it was already quite obvious the offense was working as well as the defense wasn’t, Brandon met with Rodriguez to discuss the future. He asked if Rodriguez was so loyal to his staff that he was not willing to make changes. Rodriguez replied that he was loyal to his staff, but he understood that changes needed to be made, and he was willing to make them, including replacing the entire defensive staff. Just as important, of course, would be the next step: figuring out who would replace them, starting with a new defensive coordinator.

To do so effectively, Brandon would need to offer competitive salaries and guaranteed contracts – as he’s done for Hoke’s staff -- which would have committed him to Rodriguez for probably two more years, minimum. Obviously, after the Gator Bowl, that was not going to happen.
 
10) DID BACON EVER GET A SENSE FOR WHAT RODRIGUEZ WOULD HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY IF HE HAD A TIME MACHINE?

It’s part of the psychology of the big-time college coach, I’ve noticed, not to look back very often, not to indulge regret, and not to admit too many mistakes. Schembechler got better at the latter over time, for example, but only so much. Most of them don’t think too much about the past unless prompted – and even then, their failings are not usually at the top of the list of things they mention. They tend to be confident and stubborn in equal measure.

Nonetheless, I think there are several things we can conclude based partly on Rodriguez’s comments, but more on his decisions since becoming Arizona’s head coach. He clearly had prepared for his first press conference -- closing with the Wildcats’ signature slogan, “Bear Down!” -- something he had failed to do before his Ann Arbor introduction. I’m sure he wishes he had phrased things differently during any number of press conferences, although he would be likely to blame the interpretation of his remarks as much as the remarks themselves.

The fact that he’s currently working much harder to get WVU defensive coordinator Jeff Castell to join him than he had in 2007 tells you something, too. (Whether or not Arizona has the resources to lure Casteel to Tucson, however, remains to be seen.) And I suspect you’ve seen the last of Rodriguez calling for an inspirational song at a football banquet.

I think it’s pretty clear both Michigan and Rodriguez have learned a lot from those three years. I suspect both parties have read the book, too, and taken away some lessons. Brady Hoke is already off and running, while working to unite the family, and if Rodriguez gets Casteel (or a similarly good fit) at Arizona, I would expect him to do very well there, too.

11) PEOPLE YOU'D LIKE TO TALK TO.

I'd like to know the list of the people he most wanted to interview for the book and what his primary question would be for each one.

I’m satisfied that we reported everything that could be reported fairly. I followed the team non-stop for three seasons, compiling 10,000 pages of notes, and writing 2,000 pages. I don’t think readers will ever get a more thorough look inside a major college football program.

No reporter gets everyone he wants to speak on the record for a book, but we came very close. Of the hundreds of people I asked to interview, only six people declined: three at West Virginia, cited above, and three at Michigan: Scott Draper, President Coleman and Coach Carr. Given the eyewitness testimonies of hundreds of others, the first five could simply deny what other witnesses have said, on the record. They have so far declined to do so.

To me, there is only one important question that hasn’t been answered: Why did Coach Carr reach out to Rich Rodriguez, recommend him to Bill Martin, then invite his players to transfer immediately after Rodriguez was hired, all in the same week? As I wrote in the book, “on its face, it seems like a simple, generous offer to look out for people he cared about – and, in fairness, that was probably part of his motive.” But it’s also true that of the dozen-plus witness I’ve talked to, all of them interpreted it as a pre-emptive vote of no-confidence for the new coach. However, until Coach Carr chooses to speak – if he does, that is – I’ll leave that answer blank.

[Errors, the Threet thing, reactions from Rosenberg and Brandon, and additional notes covered after the jump.]


12) ERRORS. ROSENBERG COMPLAINT.

The errors in recounting the Purdue game have caused folks to doubt the veracity (voracity?) of other portions of the book. The most surprising element in the whole book, to me -- that Carr allowed players to skip classes during rivalry weeks. That's been repudiated by some. Can JUB address?

First, let me say that when my name is on the book, everything between the covers is ultimately my responsibility. So what I say next is not intended to shift the blame, but to explain what happened with the two fourth quarter scores of the 2008 Purdue game so the reader can understand how mistakes can get in final copy without ill-intent or incompetence.

When I wrote up each game week – which ran 10-30 pages each, for three seasons, most of which was ultimately cut – I was primarily concerned with the material only I had, e.g. the quotes, scenes and insights you couldn’t get anywhere else. While doing that, I would fill in the game stuff from memory, just as a place holder. Then I’d go back with the stat packet they hand out to the press after each game and fill in the blanks. In this case, my lead researcher, former Michigan Daily sports editor Nate Sandals – as sharp as they come -- remembers seeing the correct version of the fourth quarter scores of the 2008 Purdue game in one of our drafts, before it went from the electronic form to paper, and back again. (Modern publishing is both very high tech and stunningly old school. My final changes were made with a blue pencil, the copy editor’s in red.) In the process, the most current version somehow got left behind, creating the two inaccurate fourth quarter scores you see on page 139 (stated as 42-35 Michigan, when it was Purdue’s lead, and later, 42-41 instead of 42-42).

Needless to say, when we saw this we weren’t thrilled, but fortunately it was not material to the story -- Michigan still lost 48-42, as reported -- and easily fixed. We sent the changes to the copy editor immediately, so the next printing coming out will have the correct fourth quarter scores. And when you make a mistake in journalism – regrettably, a few are inevitable, in any book any author writes -- that’s what the author is supposed to do: fix it, instead of digging in his heels to defend inaccurate reporting or writing. No matter how it happened, my name is on the cover, no one else’s, so it’s my job to make every effort to make sure everything inside it is accurate.

Likewise, we’ve made a few other minor fixes – including correcting the spelling of two of the thousands of names in this book -- and if we find anything else that’s demonstrably false, we’ll fix that, too.

But the exception proves the rule.  After over 40,000 people have bought the book, and probably 80,000 people have read it – most of them avid fans – those two fourth quarter scores are what readers have cited that most needed correcting.

That administrative glitch aside, the reporting holds up, including Carr letting his players skip class during rivalry weeks -- a fact confirmed by over a dozen former players and staffers, dating back at least to 2005.

Like just about everything else in the book, we know a lot more about it than we put between the covers. But since you asked, here it is: on the Monday of Michigan’s three rivalry weeks, Coach Carr would start those team meetings by asking, “It’s rivalry week.  And you know what that means!” The players knew their line, yelling, “No classes!” Not all the players took this as an invitation to skip, of course, but most of them did, especially the upperclassmen. (A few dozen could be found those weeks in Schembechler Hall, watching film, which is entirely legal so long as it’s voluntary.)

Shortly after Rodriguez’s staff took over, they met with the academic support staff.  Mike Parrish, among others, was stunned to see over a dozen players had GPAs below 2.0, with weak attendance playing a central role. Brandon Graham, for one, told me that list included him, for that reason.

After that meeting, Rodriguez told the academic staff to communicate directly with him instead of going to Scott Draper, as Carr had instructed them. On the Monday of every rivalry week in 2008, the players would ask in the team meeting if they had to go to class, and Rodriguez made it clear they did. He made it a point to underscore this policy during every rivalry week in 2009 and 2010, too.

Attendance soon improved, as did the team’s grade point average. Before the 2010 season, Parrish recalls, the number of players below a 2.0 had been reduced to one or two, which the academic staff told him was the lowest in memory. What impact the rivalry week tradition of skipping class had on their academic performance is impossible to tease out, but there is no question that, under Rodriguez, both the players’ attendance and grades greatly improved.

(Regarding Steven Threet: I reported the scene at Penn State that way because I was standing three feet away, and that’s what I saw and heard.  Anyone in that room can confirm this.)

Having addressed those issues, it’s a good time to consider what readers are not questioning: just about everything else, including all the central issues of the book, from Coach Carr’s offer to sign his players’ transfer requests to the Free Press’s decision not to mention “countable hours” to the players running out of the tunnel before the second half at the Gator Bowl laughing.

This is especially noteworthy in light of Detroit Free Press publisher Paul Anger’s full-throated, front-page defense of the Rosenberg/Snyder investigation the Sunday after it had come out, and had already been dissected by UM administrators, reporters and fans alike, point by point. The Free Press, which buys ink by the barrel, has not spent one drop responding to my reporting on their story in Three and Out.

Likewise, when Coach Carr had been accused by Rick Leach, among others, of not supporting Rich Rodriguez, Carr readily found a friendly reporter that week to send a message, on the record, in support of Rich Rodriguez. He has not responded to anything in Three and Out, either, which is his choice.

Finally, the current silence also contrasts to Dave Brandon’s private, public and repeated complaints about specific inaccuracies in the Detroit Free Press’s original report. He has often stated that he had highlighted all the falsehoods in the story, which made the copy more yellow than white. He has made no such public claims about this book. Instead, he has simultaneously stated that he has not read the book, has no plans to and has no interest in it whatsoever – a somewhat odd stance for a university devoted to learning -- while telling at least two private audiences you cannot believe everything you read about Michigan football, and the book has “some inaccuracies,” without providing a single example. As of this writing, it’s not clear which story he’s sticking with. But he has not made a single claim on the record against this book – a striking contrast to the defense he mobilized against the Free Press.

Dave Brandon, Coach Carr, Michael Rosenberg, Rich Rodriguez and any other subjects are welcome to state publicly anything they feel is inaccurate in the book, and I will respond accordingly. If they are right, I will admit it publicly, as I have above, and make the necessary changes for later editions, as we have with the two misspelled names. If they are wrong, however, I will stand by my reporting, just as I have above.

I occasionally close my speeches on the book tour by describing the official seal of the University of Michigan, the very seal behind which the President and other officials stand when they represent the university. It features three Latin words: Artes, Scientia, Veritas: Arts, Science, and Truth.

If that seal merely represents some clever corporate branding, then none of us should take it seriously, or be offended when the university we love does not strive for the truth, but attempts to squelch it – which seems to be commonplace in big time college athletics these days.

But if the founders of our university actually meant what they wrote, and we still profess to believe it, perhaps our conduct should reflect our ideals.

A FEW ADDITIONAL POINTS

Of course, we couldn’t get to all 300-some questions, though Brian did a great job sifting through them to find the most interesting, and combine them. I’ve done my best to answer them as thoroughly as I can. I’d like to address a few others of my own, plus a few that often come up on the book tour.

First, an attempt to dispel some inaccurate information.

An easy one: On pages 394-395, I quote a coach blasting Tate Forcier after he fumbled the ball on a throw against Illinois in 2010, the famous shoot-out. A lot of readers have assumed the coach was Rodriguez, when in fact it was Rod Smith, the quarterback coach who normally had the patience of Job himself. I will make that clearer in future printings.

Next: we did not hold the publication date back to late October to maximize profits, and certainly not to distract the team, as some have claimed. Why anyone would think I would want to do that – or make Denard Robinson ineligible by putting him on the cover, for that matter – is a mystery to me. The publisher hoped for an August release, the same time Bo’s Lasting Lessons and virtually all football books are released, to coincide with the season and allow four months before the holidays. I simply couldn’t it get it done fast enough.

For some reason, people often claim I never interviewed Bill Martin (or Michael Rosenberg, in a recent review) and have stated “on the record” that I believed Rodriguez deserved a fourth year. All are false. I talked with Bill Martin over a hundred times, usually casually but often formally at great length, and his many quotes in the book stand as proof of these conversations. (It’s worth noting that he has gone out of his way to be utterly gracious before, during and after publication, much to his credit, I feel.) I interviewed Mr. Rosenberg for almost three hours, and his answers to my questions are in the book, and often identified as resulting from our conversation. I have no idea why some people would state otherwise.

Likewise, I have never said Rodriguez deserved a fourth year, on the radio, in print or anywhere else. I have quoted Bo Schembechler saying he believed every football coach deserves four years, and I’ve expanded that to all college coaches – unless, I always add, they are caught in a scandal or have lost their teams. In Rodriguez’s case, I think it’s pretty clear from the evidence the “practice scandal” was vastly overblown, and Brandon himself has stated it would never have qualified as a reason to fire Rodriguez. As for losing his team, however, I think that’s open to debate, particularly after the team’s performance in the second half of the Gator Bowl. There might have been many factors outside of Rodriguez’s control that added to his and his players’ burden, but whether the sources of their troubles were internal or external, the weight was real. But I’ll again leave that for the reader to decide. Bottom line: I have made it a point never to weigh in on either side of that debate. Reasonable people, looking at the evidence in the book, could come to either conclusion, I believe.

Others have complained that I made too many insinuations, leaps of logic and the like. Yet the questions above, asking me to do just that, suggest I did not do so in the book. As most of us try to live within our means, I tried to work well within my evidence, not stretching it to the breaking point. For example, I used few anonymous sources, and only when necessary to protect them from tangible threats, like losing their jobs. (Remember that many of my sources still work for the university, and some have been fired since the book’s publication. Their fears were reasonable.) According to Joe Cornicelli – a.k.a. Corn Chowder to you WTKA listeners – the book features over 100 on-the-record sources, and fewer than ten anonymous sources (some quoted more than once) in a 168,000-word book. The Free Press investigation, for comparison, used at least six anonymous sources in its 3,000-word piece, some of whom had already transferred to other schools. I gave my publisher’s literary attorney the names of all my anonymous sources, who confirmed their stories, and recorded in each case why we had no choice but to grant them anonymity. We never did so lightly.

The book has been selling very well. Every one of the 33 stops on the nationwide book tour has been a great success – and I think this says something about the unique character of Michigan fans. Ivy League alums don’t seem to care if their teams win, while fans of successful college programs often don’t seem to care how their teams win. When the papers in those towns report unsavory news, the fans there go after the messengers, not the message. (How else can you explain the relatively innocuous Kirk Herbstreit having to move his family to Nashville to keep them safe?)

Michigan fans want to win, badly, but they want to do it the right way. If something seems amiss – be it the basketball program in the nineties or the football program recently – they want to know the truth. And they will appreciate your best efforts to find it. In addition to the very favorable responses from every stop on the tour, after the book came out my walk to and from the stadium for home games took twice as long, because I was stopped every few feet by hardcore fans wearing the hats and sweatshirts and jackets – true believers, who have invested not just their money, but their time, their energy and even their faith in the Wolverines – who wanted to thank me for writing the book. They were unfailingly friendly and supportive.

I don’t think this would happen anywhere else. So, the real thanks should be the other way around: to you for reading it, and for responding as only Michigan fans can.

THANK YOU!

[Ed-Ace: I think JUB still merits thanking, at the very least, for his lengthy and detailed answers to our questions. I'll at least do his plug for him—the last stop on his 3&O tour is tonight, 7 pm, at the Ann Arbor Barnes & Noble. Be there.]

Comments

Reader71

December 24th, 2011 at 6:10 AM ^

Sure, he writes about the Bust in unflattering terms. How else could he have written about it? It was an unflattering episode. More to the point, as you said yourself, he talks about how it was recieved, not what it was. He doesn't condemn the Groban thing itself, he just quotes people (RR supporters) saying things like, "This is the end of the line." (Paraphrasing)

It is reminiscent of another tactic he uses, discussing RR's awful PR blunders while still defending them. At one point, he suggests that everything was taken out of context and goes so far as to provide that context ("Get a life"). Another time, he admits that Coach Rod made a mistake, but suggests that the comment was overly scrutinized by a cowardly boss who is forced to stop him, taking attention away from the mistake itself ("Rebuilding, rebuilding, rebuilding"). Or, he contrasts the pressers with RR's rousing and motivation team talks. As if one could make us forget about the other.

He says a few times in the book how if people could just hear him with his team... Well, we can't, we can only hear what he tells us. And he told us a lot of terrible things. My God, the Vince Lombardi quote! It was akin to spitting in the face of his defensive players. It also exposed his total lack of knowledge of defensive football. It was, to put it plainly, unforgivable, and no amount of "(opponent) better buckle their chinstraps up a little tighter cuz they're in the Big House!" can change that. But Bacon wishes we could hear him fire the boys up, so that we would know he's not a bad guy. He wants to win. He takes responsibility for his failures. He's not a bad speaker. Etc. All irrelevant, because every time he talked to the press, he made a fool of himself, and that, coupled with the losing, was that.

Huntington Wolverine

December 22nd, 2011 at 3:07 PM ^

I'd be interested if that was a formal interview. The article you link to is a blurb commenting Bacon's article in the WSJ and the upcoming book and that's the only quote in the two paragraphs.  So while I'd be interested in hearing Bacon's opinion on that blurb, I'm not sure its a hard indictment of Bacon in this case.

Kudos for digging it up so promptly in response though.

Raoul

December 22nd, 2011 at 3:38 PM ^

What difference does it make if it was a formal interview or not? My guess is Jan Schlain decided to write a short piece for the Observer about Bacon's WSJ article, and Schlain called Bacon up or e-mailed him to get some background on the article and then asked him for his view on Rodriguez. Bacon obliged with the quote that was published and thus his opinion that Rodriguez deserved a fourth year was put on the record.

Here's another guess: Bacon's opinion on that blurb is likely that he wished he hadn't said what he did.

El Jeffe

December 22nd, 2011 at 4:33 PM ^

At a minimum this shows uncharacteristic sloppiness on Bacon's part (what Raoul reads as defensiveness I read as meticulousness--though I can see Raoul's point). On the other hand, he says "I have expanded that to include all college coaches," which makes me think it is possible that the quote was truncated. It is possible he said something like "I thought he deserved a fourth year [as I would say about all college coaches]." I dunno. Or maybe he forgot he said that. In which case, I still don't think that vitiates his generally evenhanded stance.

In any event, my view (as if it mattered) is that if you weigh all the evidence that JUB is a crazy pro-RR zealot who pined for a fourth year on one side and a dispassionate observer of what he was given access to observe, the piles of evidence on the latter side overwhelm the tiny shreds on the former that for some reason people feel the need to find.

BUT BUT BUT PURDUE ACCOUNT NOT ACCURATE!!! ALL ELSE ERGO FALSE!!!!!!!

Which brings me to my second point: I'm somewhat baffled by the inclination of some people in these 3&O posts to behave as though more than one thing cannot be true. JUB can have written a 99% accurate account of what he observed and gotten 1% of it wrong (or even 90/10). LC can be a heroic Michigan Man but have let personal animosities get in the way of his better judgment. RR can be a brilliant offensive innovator and have totally f'd up the defensive side of the ball. David Brandon can be great at some parts of his job and introduce a (to some) unwelcome Spartiness to Michigan Stadium. Praise can be given to RR/Hoke without it being a negative commentary on Hoke/RR. People are flawed and multidimensional and multivalent.

blue in dc

December 22nd, 2011 at 4:49 PM ^

I liked the book. However to call it written from the perspective of a dispassionate obsever is crazy. If someone spent three years with the buckeyes, then did a bunch of interviews with Michigan players and coaches, would you view that as an objective view of the Michigan/Ohio rivalry?
<br>
<br>It strains credibility to believe that if you spend 90 percent of your time focused on a subject from one vantage point that you can be totally objective.

El Jeffe

December 22nd, 2011 at 4:55 PM ^

But what, other than the three or four examples that keep getting trotted out, demonstrates this bias? And for that matter, how does getting the endgame of the Purdue game demonstrate bias?

It seems to me that some on this blog wanted Bacon to write a different book than he wrote. He didn't intend to analyze in depth all of the reasons why RR got fired. He intended to write a book about what goes on inside a CFB program. Many of the anti-Baconites seem to want him to justify and give voice to their rage at being made fun of at work by MSU fans. Hence, the rage about not talking about the defense. If Bacon intended only to write an account of why RR got fired, then yes, that would be a huge omission. But that wasn't the original point, and I don't think that ever became the only goal.

M-Wolverine

December 22nd, 2011 at 5:17 PM ^

But I don't think it's a matter of angle that bothers people, mostly. It could be a football book. It could be a politics book. The problem is where he basically judges, and then confirms here, that he thinks all the politics between ex-coaches and current coaches, administrators, and such, is new news (almost all of it isn't, just more rumors of rumors we've heard) and interesting stuff; but the politics of the staff he was embedded, between each other, wasn't anything we haven't already heard, or not important.  Because "I spent most of my time with the quarterbacks and offense." Truly a WTF statement, in that he had time to research, find sources, and hear stories about meetings and events he was no where near, but couldn't presumably do the same with people he was around all the time, and could just ask a few questions.  He can choose to not make it X & O's, breaking down why the 3-3-5 didn't work at Michigan...that's fine. But to say all the politics that made it tough on Rich is worthwhile to the story, but all the politics in his own staff, which probably had a lot more to do with any failure, is either an incredibly skewed viewpoint on things, or just flat out slant.

DelhiGoBlue

December 22nd, 2011 at 7:11 PM ^

doth protest too much, methinks.  It wasn't two or three or four things, it was the incessant drum beat pointing out that Rodriguez really was a "Michigan" man (and did you miss his not so subtle game of connect the dots from Bo through Nehlen to Rodriguez?).  When he wasn't trying to convince the reader of Rich's Michigan Masculinity, he was portraying a figure the reader should pity and have sympathy. 

Truly JUB is a gifted writer that he was able to take material which would / should have portrayed Rodriguez as a man in over his head* and twisted it to be a story of a three year conspiracy to destroy Rodriguez.  That he included not so flattering episodes such as the 2010 Bust was a nod at keeping a modicum of credibility.  However, the absence of the "Shafer not invited to his own back stabbing" in the book but the unending implied Carr conspiracy tells me the author had reached a conclusion and then wrote a story to fit it. 

*I've no doubt that Rodriguez is a terrific coach, I have serious doubts about his ability to coach from a position of prominence.  That is to say, RR is great at building up from mediocrity when it really is he and the players against the world and they are fighting their way up.  I think RR has demonstrated that he is uncomfortable being the top dog and fighting off the pack to maintain his position as the Alpha.  RR doesn't have a problem taking on the occasional Alpha, he just doesn't have the demeanor nor character to be the Alpha.  I think if JUB and the readers were a bit thoughtful on this subject, they would agree.

M-Wolverine

December 22nd, 2011 at 4:53 PM ^

Saying repeatedly that "Bo says coaches should get 4 years", or "all coaches should get 4 years", and then saying "I have never stated my opinion on whether Rich Rod, a coach in his 3rd year, should get a fourth" is a bit disingenious at best.  I don't recall the book making a big deal about players laughing = Rich Rod had obviously completely lost his team that "balances" it.  And is only after the fact now giving into the possibility that the latter MAY have been part of Brandon's consideration.

And since we're doing asides, blanket quote clubbing like this always annoys me. It takes i out of the context that Bo was talking about his friend getting canned. And that he was rebuilding a horrible program, not taking over a successful one. But even if you take that as exactly what he meant, Bo ALSO said that even after succeeding at Michigan for more than a decade he knew that all it would take for him to start being shown the door was to lose to OSU 3 years in a row.  So even AFTER he's proven himself, he knew 3 failed years would get him hot seated. He wasn't completely right, because Lloyd avoided it..but mainly because they begged him to stay one more year. Throw in MSU into the bargain, and I'm not sure Bo would be all that shocked by the results.

It's not a matter of everything is invalid. The question is, what are the percentages? 99-1%? 90/10? 50/50? 30/70?  It's not out and out lies...it's sloppy; second hand; or slanted. We have no idea which ones to believe and which to not. Because you can say "oh, THAT one was wrong..but that was it.  This other stuff wasn't."  But how do I know which ones to believe and which to not? Even if it's only 10%...you pick and choose which 10% is wrong, and it can DRASTICALLY change the narrative.

El Jeffe

December 22nd, 2011 at 5:07 PM ^

I think I agree with most of what you said; however, I generally frown upon the syllogism that says "if a person is sloppy with one thing then they must have been sloppy about all." I guess that's possible, but Occam's razor sez otherwise, I think.

Ultimately, of course, we don't really know. But then we're just a bunch of nihilist pyrrhonian skeptics. I believe that Bacon got most of it right, but probably a bit of it wrong. You appear to believe something different. Neither of us is really "right" or "wrong." After all, there's a reason why hearsay isn't allowed in criminal trials. None of us really knows for sure.

On the other hand, I think Bacon is in a strong position when he points out that, whereas DB unleashed a tartly-worded onslaught on the piece of shit that was the Rosenberg report, he has been deafeningly silent on 3&O. Same with LC and everyone else that took hits in the book.

M-Wolverine

December 22nd, 2011 at 5:24 PM ^

I'm just saying not know what those bits are can make a big difference.

And I wasn't wow'd by Bacon's point on no statements by Brandon versus the book making it true.  He spoke out about the Freep because they had to hold a press conference for an NCAA hearing results meeting.  He had to comment on it. It wasn't just going to go away. This, he doesn't. I liken it a lot more to Harbaugh's statements where Hart chimed in, and Martin said something to the effect that "we'd love to play Stanford" (not too bright, but not much else was said) than the Freep report. If anything in the book was actually illegal or against rules, rather than just unseemly, Brandon might have need to comment more. If it starts an investigation, he probably will. But it won't. So little aside comments is probably all you're going to get from him.  Because it doesn't rate more, as it fades away but for the now 40,000 readers. (Which, congrats Bacon, you must have had a great week...since last Friday you had only sold 30,000 copies accordiing to..you, on the radio. I know Christmas is coming, but it's impressive to make 1/4 of your sales in a week 2 months after the book comes out.)

Yeoman

December 22nd, 2011 at 5:29 PM ^

I thought that was an odd comment from Bacon. When Carr came out publicly in support of RR after Leach's comments it was at a time when the Michigan football community was fractured and something needed to be done to try to save it. When Brandon went to work on Rosenberg it was in the context of an NCAA investigation and the risk of sanctions.

They spoke in response to threats to Michigan football. There is no such threat now. For Bacon to draw a contrast to their silence now and assume that it can only be because he's right and they have nothing to say--that's a gross overestimation of the importance of his book and himself.

El Jeffe

December 22nd, 2011 at 5:42 PM ^

My point (and Bacon's, I gather) is simply that if a high-profile (to the M community) book came out and grossly-distorted-to-the-point-of-libel things that you did or didn't do (which I believe the Rosenberg report did), wouldn't you be tempted to present a different side? I would. Maybe David Brandon is different, I dunno.

Raoul

December 22nd, 2011 at 9:05 PM ^

Technically, it was a NYT bestseller and no longer is. Yes, it's an accomplishment to get on the NYT list, but not all bestsellers are created equal. Bacon's book debuted at #9 on the November 13 combined print and e-book list, and this was due almost entirely to the unusually large number of preorders that had been built up. The next week it fell all the way down to #31 and has never been on the list again.

Compare that to what many in the industry consider "true" bestsellers—that is, books that stay on the list for extended periods. Every book on the most recent list, for example, has been on the list for at least three weeks and some have been on it for two dozen weeks or even much more. Those are the books of greatest "relevance" in the publishing world—not one-week wonders like Bacon's.

Yeoman

December 22nd, 2011 at 5:34 PM ^

There's a lot in the book that can't be checked or confirmed. We can only judge the credibility of the book--of any book--on those portions that can be verified. It's possible that the errors happen to be concentrated in the verifiable portions, but Occam's razor sez otherwise.

El Jeffe

December 22nd, 2011 at 5:38 PM ^

I don't disagree with this. If you tallied all of the verifiable portions of the book and took the verifiable errors as a proportion of that, what would that be? I'm not sure. Let's say 10%. Let's assume that means that 10% of the unverifiable portions are also inccurate. So we would have a 90% accurate, 10% inaccurate book. M-Wolverine's point is that it matters which are the 90% and which are the 10%. I agree with this. I'm no longer sure what we're arguing about.

Reader71

December 24th, 2011 at 4:44 AM ^

I don't have a problem with Bacon's reporting of the verifiable facts. He got a few things wrong, but I am not one of those who try to use a few factual errors to cloud the entire work. Everyone makes mistakes. As you say, most of what he wrote is true.

What bothers me most is the omissions from the book, and what these omissions allude to. He talked very little about the defensive failures. He talks even less about the staff's reportedly toxic relationship with Schaffer. Aside from the Ezeh/Demens debate, he says nothing about RR's relationship with Gerg. I'm sure he was privy to that info. That he doesn't include it in the book alludes to the idea that his work is favorable to RR. He's covering the ugly bits.

But he doesn't try to cover the ugly innuendos about Carr. He doesn't have the guts to outright accuse Carr of any wrongdoing, but he does quote people that suspect he was the Freep leak (the quote about 'numero uno'). Now, if Carr was the leak, Bacon should let it be known. Hell, he should let it be known if even some people suspect Carr was the leak (which he does). But why doesn't this work the other way? Why do we learn nothing of the working relations between members of the defensive staff? Why no mention of the sideline spat that looked like a player cussing out his coach? 

And this goes for admissions, as well. He blames Carr for encouraging Boren and Mallet to leave. We all know that Mallet was an asshole and a rumored drug user. As for Boren, Bacon himself tells about what kind of selfish asshole he was, but then blames Carr anyways for letting him go to Ohio. It's almost as if, in an effort to paint Carr in ugly strokes, he's throwing all sorts of things at the wall hoping something will stick. I think the transfer affair is bad enough. Why confuse the message by telling us how bad of team mates those players were? To absolve RR of the perceived fault of not making a strong effort to keep them?

I just think that if we want the truth, as we claim, we should have it. All of it. And when things go unmentioned, it casts doubt over the rest of the book. Certainly more than a faulty recollection of the Purdue game.

Section 1

December 24th, 2011 at 10:53 AM ^

Bacon did not claim that Carr drove off Boren.  Bacon wrote some valuable things; about Justin being a prick, distant from his teammates, and about Justin being pulled out of Michigan because Zach wasn't offered a scholarship.  Bacon's writing in that regard was tremendously valuable, because we were mostly getting a counter-narrative from the papers.  That there was a concern about Michigan's family values.  And some vague thing about language used in practices.  All of which was more lie than truth.

Honestly, I think much too much has been made of Carr offering transfer papers to any on his players, because few of any consequence let that influence them.  Mallett was a head case, Clemons wanted to play elsewhere in a different scheme, and Boren was pulled out by his psychodad.  I don't really understand what there is to blame Carr for.  There's certainly nothing to blame Rodriguez for.  People quit, and transfer, in the midst of coaching changes. 

But having said that, I am not aware of anybody who is refuting Bacon on the matter of Lloyd's transfer-talk.  It happened, according to Bacon (good to at least know it) and nobody says that Bacon is making it up.  If there is more meaning and nuance that we are not grasping, Coach Carr can explain it.

That same thing goes for the matter of "leaking" to the Free Press.  I have always said; I don't want to make too much of any "leaks" to Rosenberg, because a "leak" commonly denotes some bad fact being concealed and then made known.  Rosenberg didn't get any real "leak" to concoct his story.  Rosenberg made his story up.  It was never a real story.  It was a complete, dumbass misunderstanding of countable time on the part of Rosenberg, and/or an active effort to mislead readers who themselves didn't understand it.

Reader71

December 24th, 2011 at 12:53 PM ^

No one is refuting the transfer talk. I certainly wasn't. I just don't understand how Bacon can, one the one hand, use the transfer meeting to show how Carr undermined RR, and on the other hand, talk about the Boren situation without giving credit to Carr for removing such a cancer from RR's team. He's trying to have it both ways. It's all in the tone of the book.

I know your problem with the term "leak" is that RR didn't really do anything wrong, so there was nothing to "leak", but that's all semantics. Let's go with "mole".

If you have problems with the mole theory of the Freep piece, Bacon doesn't share them. He makes clear (I believe he quotes either Bruce Madej or Dave Ablauf) as saying that Rosenberg would not know what to look for (CARA forms) without having a mole inside the program. Without a mole, he wouldn't know what to ask for under the FOIA. And, if I am not mistaken, someone is asked if they believe the leak came from "numero uno". Bacon clearly (although kind of spinelessly) suggests that Carr was behind the Rosenberg piece, or at least that people inside the program believed it. Again, this is fine, and newsworthy.

My problem with 3&O is that he isn't balanced. He tells us that people suspect Carr as a hidden hand behind the Freep piece, but he doesn't tell us anything about the awful defense. This is telling in and of itself: Bacon writes about how RR had many opportunities to save his job. Improving the defense should be #1 on the list. It isn't. Because Bacon doesn't really know football, I can only assume that he gets this dismissal of defense from RR, who he warked with daily for 3 years. I also think it is very pertinent to the point of the book (as per its prologue): why -- and how -- RR failed at Michigan. It think it certainly pertains more to RR's failure than anything Carr did to undermine him.

Section 1

December 24th, 2011 at 1:09 PM ^

...is precisely why I suggest a public symposium, with all of the people I originally nominated -- Rosenberg, Bacon, Carr, Martin, Coleman, Cook, Stapleton, Bates, etc.

If many of the invited guests can't show up, I'd do it with the ones who will, and just leave empty chairs with names on them for people who wouldn't attend.

blue in dc

December 22nd, 2011 at 8:09 PM ^

The Freep stuff caused a ton of bad press for the University - clearly it needed to be unleasehed upon. The story aboutMichigan in the press now is very positive with regards to the football team - why would Brandon possibly want to do anything to make it about Bacon's book? The only one who would benefit from that is Bacon himself.
<br>
<br>Brandon has already won the media battle with regards to firing RR and hiring. The only people who care about this debate are on this blog.

chitownblue2

December 22nd, 2011 at 5:55 PM ^

El Jeffe Here is he problem as I see it, to use an example he wrote today. He says he doesn't know what effect the end of Carr's "skip class OSU week" policy had on academics, BUT he knows academics sucked under Carr and ruled under Rodriguez. THEN says "Hey, but I'm not here to make conclusions." He can't cite cause, force feed us the effect, then stand back and claim he's not making an argument - it's nonsense, and it's something he does REPEATEDLY throughout the book.

Fuck Lloyd Carr

December 22nd, 2011 at 1:03 PM ^

RRod is going win Rose Bowls at Arizona, just you see. And Gary Moeller will be happy as he should. Meanwhile Loser Lloyd is happy too, because he's got his pizza boy and fatso to do his bidding. He was happy, anyway. Mr. Bacon exposed him. He's probably not laughing anymore. Screw you Lloyd. How does Three and Out taste.

Jonadan

December 22nd, 2011 at 1:05 PM ^

It's interesting – as I think I've said before, I was skeptical of the RR hire, and have no sympathy for what it did to the defense over those three years – but I find myself sympathizing with Rodriguez more and more the more I hear: in this case, the improved academics seem like a huge plus in my book.  Not enough to justify keeping him by themselves, but at least another proof that for all the faults he demonstrated he is at least a Good Guy and deserves a position he can succeed in even if it wasn't here.

Magnus

December 22nd, 2011 at 1:13 PM ^

It almost seems like Rodriguez was the polar opposite of Carr (although that's not entirely true).  Carr was very secretive, Rodriguez too open.  Carr was selective about how important school was, Rodriguez was pretty hard-line.  Rodriguez was an offensive guru, Carr's teams were predicated on defense.  Carr carried on lots of traditions, Rodriguez tried to create new ones.

Sometimes that kind of coaching change seems to work, but in this case, Rodriguez was just too deficient in important areas (defense, connecting with alumni/tradition) despite being superior in others.

Erik_in_Dayton

December 22nd, 2011 at 1:19 PM ^

I see Hoke as being pretty much right between those poles, the porridge that is just right.  He knows Michigan and he emphasizes defense, but he'll let Borges run an aggressive offense and do things like run fake field goals with some regularity.   I don't know that Hoke would be a great fit at, say, USC, but I think he's a great fit at Michigan.

Ziff72

December 22nd, 2011 at 1:53 PM ^

Grantland had a great article from a fired sitcom writer.   In the article the author describes getting the plum rating spot behind a big lead in.   He described the performance of his show "How to be a Gentleman" after The Big Bang Theory like so.

"Imagine you play for the Red Sox and the manager gives you the clean up spot behind Big Papi.  Big Papi hits 330 with 40 HR  You come in and bat .160.   On top of that when you go to the press conference to explain your performance you drop and N Bomb.  That was our shows performance."

I thought it was hilarious and also reminded me of how a lot of  M fans viewed RR. 

 

 

Magnus

December 22nd, 2011 at 2:25 PM ^

I don't think it was predictable at WVU, and I think he was somewhat limited at Michigan with a brand new, young starter each season.  It's hard to throw in a lot of wrinkles when you have two guys who don't fit (Threet/Sheridan), then a true freshman who's a bit of a loose cannon and undisciplined (Forcier), then a true sophomore who was erratic as a passer and had a loose grasp on the offense (Robinson).  By Denard's third or fourth year, I bet we would have seen some unpredictable play calls/designs, but he never got that far.

Yeoman

December 22nd, 2011 at 4:27 PM ^

Is there a college football fan anywhere that doesn't think his own team is predictable? You watch your own team intently maybe 24 times per year if you watch each game twice; everyone else you see maybe two or three times while clicking away to other games. Of course you're going to pick up on your own team's tendencies.

Geoff Pangos

December 22nd, 2011 at 1:13 PM ^

RRod will win Rose Bowls at Arizona, you watch and see. Gary Moeller will be happy for him. Lloyd is happy too, because he has his pizza boy and fatso to do his bidding. Well, he was happy anyway. Until Mr. Bacon exposed him. Who's laughing now Lloyd. Mr. Bacon should have his name somewhere on this website. A digital plaque commemorating the book. He deserves an honor for exposing Lloyd Carr.

Geoff Pangos

December 22nd, 2011 at 1:39 PM ^

Let me tell you something. Loser Lloyd Carr and his merry band of idiots ruined a great man's life. If I choose to call the Lloyd cronies Friar Tuck Hoke and Lipstick Dave I will do so. It is the least I can do. They thought they could laugh RRod into his grave....they're not laughing now. RRod beat them. Mr. Bacon exposed them all but most especially Loser Lloyd. He is a piece of shit who couldn't even coach. Mr. Bacon laid it all on the table. He exposed Lloyd Carr for what he truly is. A dirt bag.

SoullessHack

December 22nd, 2011 at 1:19 PM ^

Is what bottle of scotch (any bottle, JUB, any price) do I need to buy him and how much of it does he need to consume before he gives up everything he couldn't put in the book? But I mean everything: wild speculation, crazy rumors, vast conspiracy theories involving Zoltan Mesko, Don Canham and the Committee for the Re-Election the President... everything.