Post-Release Three And Out Q&A: Part II Comment Count

Ace

Brian has already fled the scene for whereabouts unknown, but he left behind part the second of John U. Bacon's Q&A. If you're looking for part one, click here.

8) FIRING PROCESS.

What did Dave Brandon say in his 2 hour meeting with Rich Rod the day before he was fired? Everyone including Rodriguez thought he'd be fired so why string it out like that?

Good question. Rodriguez told me that night in his home, between the two meetings, that he believed Brandon hoped that afternoon that Rodriguez would make it easy for him by conceding that things hadn’t gone as planned, it was all too much, and Rodriguez was ready to negotiate his departure. Rodriguez thought Brandon was surprised to see Rodriguez digging in his heels, asserting his eagerness to coach a fourth season, and displaying his confidence that 2011 would be the year his team would take off.

That night, Rodriguez told me he was “90-percent certain” Brandon would fire him the next day, which he did, “as expected,” as Rodriguez told his assistants after the meeting. For his part, Brandon stated at the press conference that he was still tossing the question over in his mind that very morning, though – as I wrote in the book – that seems very unlikely for such a calculating man.

So, why drag it out? Since this boils down to speculation, something I’ve tried to avoid, your guess is as good as mine. The book does point out, however, the indisputable effects the delay had on Rodriguez, his players, and the program, which don’t require speculation, namely: Rodriguez declined Maryland’s offer in December, which would have provided a safe haven for him, his coaches, and any players who might want to transfer, particularly Denard Robinson. It gave Brandon more time to set the stage for Brady Hoke, a relative unknown at the time. And, after the Gator Bowl, it made it very difficult for even Rodriguez’s most fervent supporters to defend retaining him. Whether these results were intended or not, they certainly helped pave the way for Brandon to hire Hoke, and for Hoke to succeed, with the team intact.
 
9) HYPOTHETICAL 2011.

Did Rich Rod ever hint at changes that would be made to his staff if he was retained for 2011?

He told me he was definitely going to make changes. With a few games to go in the 2010 season – after the Illinois game, I believe -- when it was already quite obvious the offense was working as well as the defense wasn’t, Brandon met with Rodriguez to discuss the future. He asked if Rodriguez was so loyal to his staff that he was not willing to make changes. Rodriguez replied that he was loyal to his staff, but he understood that changes needed to be made, and he was willing to make them, including replacing the entire defensive staff. Just as important, of course, would be the next step: figuring out who would replace them, starting with a new defensive coordinator.

To do so effectively, Brandon would need to offer competitive salaries and guaranteed contracts – as he’s done for Hoke’s staff -- which would have committed him to Rodriguez for probably two more years, minimum. Obviously, after the Gator Bowl, that was not going to happen.
 
10) DID BACON EVER GET A SENSE FOR WHAT RODRIGUEZ WOULD HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY IF HE HAD A TIME MACHINE?

It’s part of the psychology of the big-time college coach, I’ve noticed, not to look back very often, not to indulge regret, and not to admit too many mistakes. Schembechler got better at the latter over time, for example, but only so much. Most of them don’t think too much about the past unless prompted – and even then, their failings are not usually at the top of the list of things they mention. They tend to be confident and stubborn in equal measure.

Nonetheless, I think there are several things we can conclude based partly on Rodriguez’s comments, but more on his decisions since becoming Arizona’s head coach. He clearly had prepared for his first press conference -- closing with the Wildcats’ signature slogan, “Bear Down!” -- something he had failed to do before his Ann Arbor introduction. I’m sure he wishes he had phrased things differently during any number of press conferences, although he would be likely to blame the interpretation of his remarks as much as the remarks themselves.

The fact that he’s currently working much harder to get WVU defensive coordinator Jeff Castell to join him than he had in 2007 tells you something, too. (Whether or not Arizona has the resources to lure Casteel to Tucson, however, remains to be seen.) And I suspect you’ve seen the last of Rodriguez calling for an inspirational song at a football banquet.

I think it’s pretty clear both Michigan and Rodriguez have learned a lot from those three years. I suspect both parties have read the book, too, and taken away some lessons. Brady Hoke is already off and running, while working to unite the family, and if Rodriguez gets Casteel (or a similarly good fit) at Arizona, I would expect him to do very well there, too.

11) PEOPLE YOU'D LIKE TO TALK TO.

I'd like to know the list of the people he most wanted to interview for the book and what his primary question would be for each one.

I’m satisfied that we reported everything that could be reported fairly. I followed the team non-stop for three seasons, compiling 10,000 pages of notes, and writing 2,000 pages. I don’t think readers will ever get a more thorough look inside a major college football program.

No reporter gets everyone he wants to speak on the record for a book, but we came very close. Of the hundreds of people I asked to interview, only six people declined: three at West Virginia, cited above, and three at Michigan: Scott Draper, President Coleman and Coach Carr. Given the eyewitness testimonies of hundreds of others, the first five could simply deny what other witnesses have said, on the record. They have so far declined to do so.

To me, there is only one important question that hasn’t been answered: Why did Coach Carr reach out to Rich Rodriguez, recommend him to Bill Martin, then invite his players to transfer immediately after Rodriguez was hired, all in the same week? As I wrote in the book, “on its face, it seems like a simple, generous offer to look out for people he cared about – and, in fairness, that was probably part of his motive.” But it’s also true that of the dozen-plus witness I’ve talked to, all of them interpreted it as a pre-emptive vote of no-confidence for the new coach. However, until Coach Carr chooses to speak – if he does, that is – I’ll leave that answer blank.

[Errors, the Threet thing, reactions from Rosenberg and Brandon, and additional notes covered after the jump.]


12) ERRORS. ROSENBERG COMPLAINT.

The errors in recounting the Purdue game have caused folks to doubt the veracity (voracity?) of other portions of the book. The most surprising element in the whole book, to me -- that Carr allowed players to skip classes during rivalry weeks. That's been repudiated by some. Can JUB address?

First, let me say that when my name is on the book, everything between the covers is ultimately my responsibility. So what I say next is not intended to shift the blame, but to explain what happened with the two fourth quarter scores of the 2008 Purdue game so the reader can understand how mistakes can get in final copy without ill-intent or incompetence.

When I wrote up each game week – which ran 10-30 pages each, for three seasons, most of which was ultimately cut – I was primarily concerned with the material only I had, e.g. the quotes, scenes and insights you couldn’t get anywhere else. While doing that, I would fill in the game stuff from memory, just as a place holder. Then I’d go back with the stat packet they hand out to the press after each game and fill in the blanks. In this case, my lead researcher, former Michigan Daily sports editor Nate Sandals – as sharp as they come -- remembers seeing the correct version of the fourth quarter scores of the 2008 Purdue game in one of our drafts, before it went from the electronic form to paper, and back again. (Modern publishing is both very high tech and stunningly old school. My final changes were made with a blue pencil, the copy editor’s in red.) In the process, the most current version somehow got left behind, creating the two inaccurate fourth quarter scores you see on page 139 (stated as 42-35 Michigan, when it was Purdue’s lead, and later, 42-41 instead of 42-42).

Needless to say, when we saw this we weren’t thrilled, but fortunately it was not material to the story -- Michigan still lost 48-42, as reported -- and easily fixed. We sent the changes to the copy editor immediately, so the next printing coming out will have the correct fourth quarter scores. And when you make a mistake in journalism – regrettably, a few are inevitable, in any book any author writes -- that’s what the author is supposed to do: fix it, instead of digging in his heels to defend inaccurate reporting or writing. No matter how it happened, my name is on the cover, no one else’s, so it’s my job to make every effort to make sure everything inside it is accurate.

Likewise, we’ve made a few other minor fixes – including correcting the spelling of two of the thousands of names in this book -- and if we find anything else that’s demonstrably false, we’ll fix that, too.

But the exception proves the rule.  After over 40,000 people have bought the book, and probably 80,000 people have read it – most of them avid fans – those two fourth quarter scores are what readers have cited that most needed correcting.

That administrative glitch aside, the reporting holds up, including Carr letting his players skip class during rivalry weeks -- a fact confirmed by over a dozen former players and staffers, dating back at least to 2005.

Like just about everything else in the book, we know a lot more about it than we put between the covers. But since you asked, here it is: on the Monday of Michigan’s three rivalry weeks, Coach Carr would start those team meetings by asking, “It’s rivalry week.  And you know what that means!” The players knew their line, yelling, “No classes!” Not all the players took this as an invitation to skip, of course, but most of them did, especially the upperclassmen. (A few dozen could be found those weeks in Schembechler Hall, watching film, which is entirely legal so long as it’s voluntary.)

Shortly after Rodriguez’s staff took over, they met with the academic support staff.  Mike Parrish, among others, was stunned to see over a dozen players had GPAs below 2.0, with weak attendance playing a central role. Brandon Graham, for one, told me that list included him, for that reason.

After that meeting, Rodriguez told the academic staff to communicate directly with him instead of going to Scott Draper, as Carr had instructed them. On the Monday of every rivalry week in 2008, the players would ask in the team meeting if they had to go to class, and Rodriguez made it clear they did. He made it a point to underscore this policy during every rivalry week in 2009 and 2010, too.

Attendance soon improved, as did the team’s grade point average. Before the 2010 season, Parrish recalls, the number of players below a 2.0 had been reduced to one or two, which the academic staff told him was the lowest in memory. What impact the rivalry week tradition of skipping class had on their academic performance is impossible to tease out, but there is no question that, under Rodriguez, both the players’ attendance and grades greatly improved.

(Regarding Steven Threet: I reported the scene at Penn State that way because I was standing three feet away, and that’s what I saw and heard.  Anyone in that room can confirm this.)

Having addressed those issues, it’s a good time to consider what readers are not questioning: just about everything else, including all the central issues of the book, from Coach Carr’s offer to sign his players’ transfer requests to the Free Press’s decision not to mention “countable hours” to the players running out of the tunnel before the second half at the Gator Bowl laughing.

This is especially noteworthy in light of Detroit Free Press publisher Paul Anger’s full-throated, front-page defense of the Rosenberg/Snyder investigation the Sunday after it had come out, and had already been dissected by UM administrators, reporters and fans alike, point by point. The Free Press, which buys ink by the barrel, has not spent one drop responding to my reporting on their story in Three and Out.

Likewise, when Coach Carr had been accused by Rick Leach, among others, of not supporting Rich Rodriguez, Carr readily found a friendly reporter that week to send a message, on the record, in support of Rich Rodriguez. He has not responded to anything in Three and Out, either, which is his choice.

Finally, the current silence also contrasts to Dave Brandon’s private, public and repeated complaints about specific inaccuracies in the Detroit Free Press’s original report. He has often stated that he had highlighted all the falsehoods in the story, which made the copy more yellow than white. He has made no such public claims about this book. Instead, he has simultaneously stated that he has not read the book, has no plans to and has no interest in it whatsoever – a somewhat odd stance for a university devoted to learning -- while telling at least two private audiences you cannot believe everything you read about Michigan football, and the book has “some inaccuracies,” without providing a single example. As of this writing, it’s not clear which story he’s sticking with. But he has not made a single claim on the record against this book – a striking contrast to the defense he mobilized against the Free Press.

Dave Brandon, Coach Carr, Michael Rosenberg, Rich Rodriguez and any other subjects are welcome to state publicly anything they feel is inaccurate in the book, and I will respond accordingly. If they are right, I will admit it publicly, as I have above, and make the necessary changes for later editions, as we have with the two misspelled names. If they are wrong, however, I will stand by my reporting, just as I have above.

I occasionally close my speeches on the book tour by describing the official seal of the University of Michigan, the very seal behind which the President and other officials stand when they represent the university. It features three Latin words: Artes, Scientia, Veritas: Arts, Science, and Truth.

If that seal merely represents some clever corporate branding, then none of us should take it seriously, or be offended when the university we love does not strive for the truth, but attempts to squelch it – which seems to be commonplace in big time college athletics these days.

But if the founders of our university actually meant what they wrote, and we still profess to believe it, perhaps our conduct should reflect our ideals.

A FEW ADDITIONAL POINTS

Of course, we couldn’t get to all 300-some questions, though Brian did a great job sifting through them to find the most interesting, and combine them. I’ve done my best to answer them as thoroughly as I can. I’d like to address a few others of my own, plus a few that often come up on the book tour.

First, an attempt to dispel some inaccurate information.

An easy one: On pages 394-395, I quote a coach blasting Tate Forcier after he fumbled the ball on a throw against Illinois in 2010, the famous shoot-out. A lot of readers have assumed the coach was Rodriguez, when in fact it was Rod Smith, the quarterback coach who normally had the patience of Job himself. I will make that clearer in future printings.

Next: we did not hold the publication date back to late October to maximize profits, and certainly not to distract the team, as some have claimed. Why anyone would think I would want to do that – or make Denard Robinson ineligible by putting him on the cover, for that matter – is a mystery to me. The publisher hoped for an August release, the same time Bo’s Lasting Lessons and virtually all football books are released, to coincide with the season and allow four months before the holidays. I simply couldn’t it get it done fast enough.

For some reason, people often claim I never interviewed Bill Martin (or Michael Rosenberg, in a recent review) and have stated “on the record” that I believed Rodriguez deserved a fourth year. All are false. I talked with Bill Martin over a hundred times, usually casually but often formally at great length, and his many quotes in the book stand as proof of these conversations. (It’s worth noting that he has gone out of his way to be utterly gracious before, during and after publication, much to his credit, I feel.) I interviewed Mr. Rosenberg for almost three hours, and his answers to my questions are in the book, and often identified as resulting from our conversation. I have no idea why some people would state otherwise.

Likewise, I have never said Rodriguez deserved a fourth year, on the radio, in print or anywhere else. I have quoted Bo Schembechler saying he believed every football coach deserves four years, and I’ve expanded that to all college coaches – unless, I always add, they are caught in a scandal or have lost their teams. In Rodriguez’s case, I think it’s pretty clear from the evidence the “practice scandal” was vastly overblown, and Brandon himself has stated it would never have qualified as a reason to fire Rodriguez. As for losing his team, however, I think that’s open to debate, particularly after the team’s performance in the second half of the Gator Bowl. There might have been many factors outside of Rodriguez’s control that added to his and his players’ burden, but whether the sources of their troubles were internal or external, the weight was real. But I’ll again leave that for the reader to decide. Bottom line: I have made it a point never to weigh in on either side of that debate. Reasonable people, looking at the evidence in the book, could come to either conclusion, I believe.

Others have complained that I made too many insinuations, leaps of logic and the like. Yet the questions above, asking me to do just that, suggest I did not do so in the book. As most of us try to live within our means, I tried to work well within my evidence, not stretching it to the breaking point. For example, I used few anonymous sources, and only when necessary to protect them from tangible threats, like losing their jobs. (Remember that many of my sources still work for the university, and some have been fired since the book’s publication. Their fears were reasonable.) According to Joe Cornicelli – a.k.a. Corn Chowder to you WTKA listeners – the book features over 100 on-the-record sources, and fewer than ten anonymous sources (some quoted more than once) in a 168,000-word book. The Free Press investigation, for comparison, used at least six anonymous sources in its 3,000-word piece, some of whom had already transferred to other schools. I gave my publisher’s literary attorney the names of all my anonymous sources, who confirmed their stories, and recorded in each case why we had no choice but to grant them anonymity. We never did so lightly.

The book has been selling very well. Every one of the 33 stops on the nationwide book tour has been a great success – and I think this says something about the unique character of Michigan fans. Ivy League alums don’t seem to care if their teams win, while fans of successful college programs often don’t seem to care how their teams win. When the papers in those towns report unsavory news, the fans there go after the messengers, not the message. (How else can you explain the relatively innocuous Kirk Herbstreit having to move his family to Nashville to keep them safe?)

Michigan fans want to win, badly, but they want to do it the right way. If something seems amiss – be it the basketball program in the nineties or the football program recently – they want to know the truth. And they will appreciate your best efforts to find it. In addition to the very favorable responses from every stop on the tour, after the book came out my walk to and from the stadium for home games took twice as long, because I was stopped every few feet by hardcore fans wearing the hats and sweatshirts and jackets – true believers, who have invested not just their money, but their time, their energy and even their faith in the Wolverines – who wanted to thank me for writing the book. They were unfailingly friendly and supportive.

I don’t think this would happen anywhere else. So, the real thanks should be the other way around: to you for reading it, and for responding as only Michigan fans can.

THANK YOU!

[Ed-Ace: I think JUB still merits thanking, at the very least, for his lengthy and detailed answers to our questions. I'll at least do his plug for him—the last stop on his 3&O tour is tonight, 7 pm, at the Ann Arbor Barnes & Noble. Be there.]

Comments

jamiemac

December 22nd, 2011 at 1:57 PM ^

I know I've mentioned it to you Chitown, but I'll throw it out to the general MGoPopulace

Threet's family was adament that he was not hurt when he was pulled the week before vs Toledo. So, it stands to reason the next week he was possibly being pulled for performance reasons while the coaching staff claimed injury

I dont know. Lot of unanswered questions

I guess interviewing the Threet family and Steven Threet himself would be have too difficult

rdlwolverine

December 22nd, 2011 at 12:45 PM ^

Michigan was up at halftime at Penn State.  When they came to the locker room, Bacon reports that Threet was near tears.  He then quotes someone as saying Threet is not injured.  One of the assistants (I forget which) then tells  Sheridan that he is starting the second half.

The questions people had, that Bacon doesn't answer, is why was Threet near tears, why was Sheridan told that he would start the second half and can Bacon reconcile this with the fact that Threet did indeed start the second half and was replaced part way through the third quarter and returned to the game. 

I had to read the paragraph in the book several times and still did not understand what happened, which was made even murkier by the fact that Bacon reported Threet did not start the second half when in fact the game reports show that he did.

I was hoping he could clear this up.  But alas, no.

chitownblue2

December 22nd, 2011 at 12:33 PM ^

I just don't get it.

So Rod Smith told Sheridan he was in for the 2nd half...

then didn't put him in.

Then Rodriguez said Threet was hurt, which Bacon says he wasn't.

And Bacon says Rodriguez never lies.

It's a small point, but this still makes 0 sense.

rdlwolverine

December 22nd, 2011 at 12:50 PM ^

and read Bacon's comment above, here is the best that I can make out.  The team comes into the locker room and (speculating here) Threet is told out of Bacon's hearing that he is going to be pulled for Sheridan.  This causes THreet to get emotional.  Bacon observes this. Then the statement that THreet is not hurt is made, in what I speculate is an effort to reverse the decision that he will be pulled for Sheridan.  At this point, Threet has been told, but Sheridan has not.  So Smith then tells Sheridan that he will be in.

At some point between then and the start of the second half, the decision is changed and Threet goes out to start the half.  He then is pulled, either because of injury, coaches decision, or combination of the two.

Ziff72

December 22nd, 2011 at 12:59 PM ^

Good Point.  Try this theory.

Threet has just played a great half, but is in serious pain and tells the coaches he doesn't think he can go(possible he got beat up pretty bad)

Threet is in tears about having to come out and the coaches tell Sheridan he is ready to go.

Threet tells the coaches he would like to give it a go after he composes himself, gets yelled at pumped up whatever.

Threet goes back out there and if my memory serves me correctly gets blasted into next week and says he can't do it anymore.

 

If that's bullshit and he was getting pulled, maybe he was doing a Favre where we were making plays and it was working, but he was not making the correct reads and RR thought they should have done much better.   Hard to beleive but the whole thing is rather confusing so the simple answer doesn't appear to exist.

 

 

 

profitgoblue

December 22nd, 2011 at 1:37 PM ^

I guess the real question is how does Bacon know that he is uninjured?  Would it be very clear if a player is injured in the locker room (e.g. trainers all around) or is it possible that Threet concealed it but was crying because of the pain?  Its all very mysterious.  Like you said above its too bad this account is getting so much play, especially since it was a small part of the book.

M-Wolverine

December 22nd, 2011 at 3:38 PM ^

Why did Bacon dodge the whole question, the question of actual factual inaccuracy (who actually started the second half) by saying "that's what I heard."  If that's what he heard, and what he saw, when it wasn't reality, you have to wonder.

mtzlblk

December 23rd, 2011 at 12:35 AM ^

..he heard someone say "he isn't injured."

That could have been said by anyone for any number of reasons, true or not true, i.e. perhaps someone who thought he was not injured said it prior to there being a determination that he might be....we don't know.

As for being pulled, performance is not the only reason you pull a player...attitude (see Beilien v. Manny), inability or refusal to stick to a plan (results nothwithstanding)...Threets state coming into the locker is clearly an indication of something being amiss...whether it was an injury or some rub with the coaches is unclear.

Bacon is not making any assertions here, he simply reported what he heard and saw and I agree, it is confusing when you look at the entire sequence as a whole and I would guess it is also confusing to people who were there. It seems like a situation where there were some decisions being made and some confusion around the rationale for those decisions and perhaps some communication to the public that sought to downplay the whole situation to the public. I think you see that just about every weekend college football is played. Coaches are very often elusive and 

As much as you would like it to be, you don't have any kind of smoking gun here that is going to impugn the voracity (veracity?) (/s for those that need it) of the book and the mountain of evidence it puts forth.

Asgardian

December 22nd, 2011 at 1:37 PM ^

I agree with your hypothesis Ziff.

It sounds to me like there was a chaotic argument at half time about whether or not Threet was/wasn't hurt and could/couldn't go in the second half.  If you stop and think about it, this would involve multiple coaches and multiple trainers.  It may have started out on the sideline in the first half or in the tunnel on the way in.  It is very possible that even being right there, Bacon would have only heard/seen parts of it.

1. Assistant 1 of the opinion Threet CAN play declares "he's not injured".

(Why would someone bother to say that aloud if it wasn't in question? I guess if he was crying for no reason, but to me the "is he injured?" debate makes more sense.)

2. Assistant 2 of the opinion Threet CAN NOT play goes to Sheridan and tells him to get ready to start the second half (Assistant 2 does not make the final call so Threet winds up giving it a shot.  It ends badly, Sheridan comes in.)

maizenbluenc

December 22nd, 2011 at 3:09 PM ^

Threet seemed like the clearly better choice the entire season, but Sheridan kept getting reps. But then, there seemed to be a lot of switching around that season, as you expect in such a significant transition in staff, offenisve players, and scheme.

Erik_in_Dayton

December 22nd, 2011 at 12:41 PM ^

But I don't mind a coach saying that a guy was injured instead of saying that he was pulled because he was overly emotional (if that's how you'd want to characterize Threet)...As for Threet starting the second half, I have no explanation for that that fits with Sheridan being told that he was in.

Ziff72

December 22nd, 2011 at 12:50 PM ^

How long could we go with "well that sparked more questions" back and forth with JUB?   I'd say until 2013 at least.  Thanks John.

The 1 thing I'd like to know that John may not even have a good guess at is wether Brandon thought RR was a good coach?

The immediate answer would be "No Duh he fired him", but I wonder if Brandon's decision was more complex.   My personal theory.

A.  He really liked RR and was impressed with the progress of the offense, academics and fitness(he wanted to keep Barwis), but was torn because RR was in such a hole image wise that he couldn't figure out wether he was good enough to jump in the hole with and try to dig out or if it was better to just fill in the hole and start fresh.   I'm sure he looked at the team returning 20 starters, Denard and the respect RR received from other coaches and was torn. 

B.  This hillbilly couldn't spell defense if I gave him the D,F,N and S.    I'll just wait until after the bowl so he doesn't steal any of my offensive players. 

 

John mentions it but never addresses if he had access to the RR/Brandon tape session or commentary from RR afterward if he wasn't allowed access.

Brandon played and obviously has his own ideas about football so I'm curious if they had any major disagreements with what RR was trying to do on the field, did Brandon offer any interesting insight etc.  It had to be a fascinating meeting.  I thought RR's philosophy of simple schemes, execution and fitness meshed perfectly with Schembechler's and was the main reason I thought Brandon was going to stick with him. 

 

 

 

Fuck Lloyd Carr

December 22nd, 2011 at 12:52 PM ^

I have always hated LLLLoser LLLloyd. He was a bad coach with bad assistants and he ruined the program gifted to him by Bo and Mo. If Mo had been the coach from 1995-2007 he would have given RRod a great foundation on offense. RRod could have fired Loser Lloyd the old defensive coordinator straightaway. My eternal thanks to John U. Bacon for exposing Lloyd Carr for the piece of shit he truly is.

Gulo Blue

December 22nd, 2011 at 12:56 PM ^

With regard to Carr's possible flip in support for RR, why don't people tie how Carr's assistants  were fired to Carr's backing away from supporting RR?  Between BM's handling of the cleaning out of lockers and the waiting all day in the hallway to interview for jobs that weren't available, a bunch of people that Carr was loyal to were upset.  After that, Carr backed off from supporting RR.  Seems like a pretty likely motivation for why is right there.

DelhiGoBlue

December 22nd, 2011 at 2:55 PM ^

Prior to the Purdue game and that wasn't mentioned either.  Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.  JUB makes a big deal about the "transfer meeting" and yet presents only his own, third party account of the meeting. 

He doesn't relate about anything else being said, nor in what context the transfer issue was spoke about.  Furthermore, he leaves the reader with the impression that there was a mass transfer exodus immediately following the meeting, yet the fact is that didn't happen.  It seems to me that this issue was fairly substantial in in the eyes of JUB; I'm curious as to why he didn't explore it further other than to use the favorite tool of journalism, let the silence of the one in question speak to the truth of what has been told.  I've no doubt that JUB believes he wrote the truth, I'm of the same no doubt that he didn't tell the entire truth.

He did this about the "no practice during rivalry weeks" as well.  It has been established that Carr, in his own sarcastic way, meant of course that the players had to go to class even as he said no.  JUB perpetuates the myth that Carr allowed academic slackness during rivalry week more than once in his book.

For whatever reason JUB doesn't appear to exhibit much intellectual curiousity, perhaps he suffered from a bit of of Stockholm Syndrome

Gulo Blue

December 22nd, 2011 at 5:53 PM ^

The meeting with the players, in my view, is something Lloyd would have done either way. I don't think it's the vote of no confidence that everyone else thinks, just an acknowledgement that the program was heading in a different direction in terms of play style.  I think Carr was still pro-RR when he held the players meeting.  That people interpreted it as a vote of no confidence later, I think, is skewed by the fact that later, a feeling of no confidence developed.

mgowill

December 22nd, 2011 at 1:16 PM ^

Also, when Carr retired, his style of football was under scrutiny.  I think there was motivation before, during, and after Rodriguez was hired to prove to Michigan fans whose program was inferior (Spread n Shred VS Man Ball).  Rodriguez failing validated Carr's program in his eyes and left U-M fans screaming for a return to Man Ball.  

Personally, I think the coffin was already purchased when Rich Rod was hired.

Coastal Elite

December 22nd, 2011 at 2:34 PM ^

Isn't it still the most likely scenario that...

1. Carr preferred one of his coordinators (probably English) for the job, but was informed early on in the process that this was a non-starter, so...

2. Carr started pushing his second choice (Kirk Ferentz), who was vetoed by Mary Sue Coleman, at which point...

3. Les Miles gradually becomes the consensus favorite both inside and outside Schembechler Hall - an eventuality that Carr cannot tolerate, so...

4. In a last-ditch attempt to avert a Miles hire, Carr reaches out to a coach with similar star power who, he hopes, will serve as a less odious stand-in for Miles in the search committee's minds.

This theory always appealed most to me, because it explains (1) Carr's anger over the exclusion of his coordinators and his consequent resentment toward the new coach, and (2) a rational motivation for Carr to reach out to RichRod as the lesser of two evils.

WindyCityBlue

December 22nd, 2011 at 7:09 PM ^

...posted this topic about RR on his blog.

While I think the number of RR topic posts will go down, talk of RR within many threads will still be quite frequent for the foreseeable future.  I would:

1.  Get used it and add something constructive or

2.  Just read something else. 

MGoShoe

December 22nd, 2011 at 8:27 PM ^

...and they also indicated that they won't be posting about RichRod after these 3&O Q&As are over except for the occasional Xs and Os analysis. So, to your suggestions:

  1. I actually think my comments are constructive because they encourage Brian to carry out his announced editorial decision.See, I'm really supportive!
  2. See number 1. This place will be a lot better off when we don't have to have these back and forths anymore. I (and I think I'm in the majority) don't want to have to "just read something else'. We want them to cease. Talk of Michigan's failed former head coach is simply not relevant to anything that's ongoing within Michigan's football program.

Raoul

December 22nd, 2011 at 1:02 PM ^

Likewise, I have never said Rodriguez deserved a fourth year, on the radio, in print or anywhere else.

This is demonstrably false. Here's part of a brief arborweb.com item published in February:

Bacon expects to deliver a 300-page manuscript to his publisher, Farrar, Straus and Giroux, by February 1 for publication this fall. What's his own view of the Rodriguez firing? "I thought he deserved a fourth year," Bacon says. "But I'm clearly not the athletic director."

Magnus

December 22nd, 2011 at 1:24 PM ^

It depends on whether it's used in a certain context or not.  Some people say "never" when referring to a certain period of time.  For example, saying "I never went to that strip club" to your wife might mean you've literally never set foot in a strip club...or that you haven't been there since you got married.

I'm not saying Bacon is using it in that context.  I'm just saying that the interview quoted came before he turned in the manuscript.  I don't know about you, but sometimes writing out my thoughts about something helps me come to a conclusion in the process.  As Bacon wrote out all the text to the story and got more and more removed from the Rodriguez tenure and the closeness he built up with that coaching staff, he could very well have changed his mind and reached the opposite conclusion or determined that he really didn't have a strong opinion one way or the other.

Raoul

December 22nd, 2011 at 1:55 PM ^

I'm sorry, but you're really reaching here. Bacon says "never" twice in the same paragraph. He says later:

Bottom line: I have made it a point never to weigh in on either side of that debate.

There's no shading to his use of the word either time, so he's now falsely claiming that he never said Rodriguez deserved a fourth year.

It's clear from his very defensive replies to the questions here that he knows that this book has brought his credibility into question, and he's doing everything possible to portray himself as an unbiased observer. The fact that he came to the conclusion that Rodriguez deserved a fourth year doesn't fit into this portrayal he's trying to sell.

Magnus

December 22nd, 2011 at 2:21 PM ^

I don't think he's defensive at all.  "Defensive" has a very negative connotation, as if someone has something to hide.  He's defending himself from criticism, yes.  But if anybody questions someone else's story or credibility, any response in order to set the record straight can be deemed "defensive."

Readers questioned his account of some things (some very minor things, in the case of the Purdue score), and he seems to be trying to clear up some misunderstandings.  It's not unheard of for the first edition of a book to have factual errors or misunderstandings.  This is a book that came out in late October, and it essentially has an entire website (MGoBlog) and more (Scout readers, Rivals readers, fans in general who don't participate on message boards, etc.) devoted to poking holes in the most minor of areas.

I just think people are latching onto tiny things (he spelled names wrong, he got a score wrong, etc.) and blowing them out of proportion.  Furthermore, I think the embarrassing end to the book (the Groban thing at the Football Bust) was a pretty clear indication that Bacon felt it was the end of the road for Rodriguez.  For a writer to paint so clearly how poorly received the Groban song was, I don't really see how one can interpret this book to be overly pro-Rodriguez.  I typically don't end a story about my favorite people with an extremely embarrassing anecdote.

chitownblue2

December 22nd, 2011 at 2:32 PM ^

This is completely irrelevent to the above.

Bacon said he has never said Rodriguez deserved a 4th year.

Raoul has a quote of him saying he thought Rodriguez deserved a 4th year.

That's inaccurate. Your opinion of people's reception of his book doesn't change the veracity of the statement.

jmblue

December 22nd, 2011 at 3:58 PM ^

What sort of context would be needed to better understand this statement?

 

"I thought he deserved a fourth year," Bacon says. "But I'm clearly not the athletic director."
Unless he was actually quoting someone else, which seems doubtful, I don't think there's much else to decipher there. Bacon comes off disingenuous by denying this. Why not just say something like, "Yeah, I thought that at the time, but I tried not to let it affect what I wrote"?

jmblue

December 22nd, 2011 at 4:37 PM ^

Is it possible?  Yes, but not probable.  Assuming that quotation was transcribed correctly, Bacon would be quoting Bo as saying this about a man who coached after Bo's death. 

Moreover, the arborweb.com article that Raoul linked clearly suggests that that was Bacon's own opinion.

 

Bacon expects to deliver a 300-page manuscript to his publisher, Farrar, Straus and Giroux, by February 1 for publication this fall. What's his own view of the Rodriguez firing? "I thought he deserved a fourth year," Bacon says. "But I'm clearly not the athletic director."

Reader71

December 23rd, 2011 at 5:57 PM ^

Bacon uses the Bo quote for exactly this reason. It gives him some level of deniability. But why else would he use Bo's quote about coaches getting 4th years if not when talking about RR? I know he says he extends it to coaches in general, but let's be real, he's using that quote for a reason. 

Also, I resent the fact that he is trying to give his own personal opinion weight by using Bo's words. I think (could be wrong, but I doubt it) that Bo might have had some problems with RR's regime, and might have been willing to change his stance in the face of all of that losing.

M-Wolverine

December 22nd, 2011 at 4:02 PM ^

from his follow up articles here, I just think you have a different definition of the word than me. From his dismissal of people who have problems being "bias, or haven't read it" (while claiming no bias, and flat out ignoring all factually inaccuracies, even when answering the questions about the situation), and strongly making statement that have just been shown to be flat out false (and rang false when read, as he has insinuated such things, and certainly his quotation of the Bo line certainly gives his perspective...even as it ignores other things Bo said) not only shows him to be so defensive as to be dismissive, but almost to the point of swinging wildly. 

But that was never the main point. If such a claim as this can be 100% untrue...why am I believing any of his other claims?  Some of which are assurdly true...but how the hell am I supposed to tell which ones are?