zach carpenter

Hello: Zach Carpenter Comment Count

Ace
when you see the ball and realize #26 is not on offense [photo via 247]

Now this is how an offensive lineman commits.

Late last evening, at the tail end of a rare busy May news day, three-star Cincinnati (OH) Archbishop Moeller OG Zach Carpenter announced an out-of-nowhere commitment—even Sam Webb was caught off guard—with one word and a hashtag:

You'd be excused for not having Carpenter at the forefront of your mind. His rankings range from middling to high three-star, he didn't add his Michigan offer until last month, and his recent campus visit was overshadowed by higher-profile visitors and a few subsequent commitments, including two on the offensive line.

Michigan's coaches, especially primary recruiter Al Washington and O-line coach Ed Warinner, turned up the heat in recent weeks, however, as it appeared Carpenter was destined for a Clemson commitment. The Wolverines liked what they saw enough to make a strong push, per Sam:

Some are questioning why this didn't go down after Carpenter visited two weekends in a row back in April? My answer is two-fold. First they had to answer the obvous numbers queston above (i.e. would they take another interior guy). The second part is further evaluation. I know that Ed Warinner was in Carpenter's school last week. I also know Carpenter is tipping the scales at about 310 and benching around 430. Pair that with his road-grading film and you have a physical interior guy that fits the the bill by the eyeball test athletically also.

At 6'4", 310 or so, Carpenter joins four-star Nolan Rumler among interior-only commits; the other three linemen in the class—four-star Trente Jones, three-star Karsen Barnhart, and three-star Jack Stewart—could all play tackle or guard, with Jones looking the most likely to be a pure tackle. As Sam noted in the post above, Michigan will continue to pursue another tackle in the class.

Meanwhile, if you're wondering how the Amazon series would impact recruiting, here's a data point from after his visit, via Steve Lorenz:

Cincinnati (OH) Moeller 2019 three-star offensive lineman Zach Carpenter says Michigan's Amazon documentary helped set the table for what was an excellent two-day visit to Ann Arbor over the weekend.

"It really gave me an idea of what Coach Harbaugh was like and how involved he is with the program," Carpenter told 247Sports on Sunday evening. "Getting to meet and know Coach Harbaugh was probably the highlight of my visit. My parents and I have the utmost respect for Coach and what he's about after taking this visit. The time he invested in us during our conversations was more than any head coach has done at any school we’ve visited to date. We truly feel like he treated us like family and are grateful for his transparency and honesty (during the visit)."

That feeling stuck, evidently. Carpenter is the 11th commit in the 2019 class, which sits fifth nationally and first in the Big Ten in the composite rankings.

GURU RATINGS

Rivals ESPN 247 247 Comp
3*, 5.7, #15 OG 3*, 78, #34 OG 3*, 88, #21 OG,
#464 Ovr
3*, #19 OG,
#486 Ovr

Hey, ESPN scouted a guy! Who's not in their top 300, even!

Anyway, Carpenter is either a high three-star—the top three-star guard on Rivals, four position spots away on 247—or a meh three-star (ESPN). ESPN should be taken with at least some seriousness here since they actually got eyes on the guy. That said, the other sites and Carpenter's offer list—plus Michigan's obvious desire to beat Clemson to the punch—are good indicators that he'll at least wind up on that 3/4-star borderline by the end of the cycle.

He certainly has the size for the interior. Carpenter is listed at either 6'4" or 6'5" (I'd guess the shorter end is more accurate) and somewhere between 290 and 325 pounds. While he plays tackle in high school, he projects as a people-moving guard or center.

[Hit THE JUMP for scouting, video, and the rest.]

SCOUTING

Michigan's staff had quite a bit of familiarty with Carpenter before they were actually Michigan's staff: Warinner offered him while he was coaching for Minnesota, and Washington recruited him when he was at Cincinnati. Meanwhile, Carpenter has a good offer sheet and plays at one of the most prominent programs in a big-time football state, where he's on track to be a four-year starter. He's already earned first-team Division I all-state honors, among several others.

There's very little actual scouting out there on him, oddly. Until today, we mostly just had a skimpy ESPN underclassman evaluation:

STRENGTHS: Possesses good size and demonstrates he can play with leverage and be a physical run blocker. Displays good awareness working to second level to get a hat on targets in his track... AREAS OF IMPROVEMENT: Displays limited range and ability to adjust on the move .... BOTTOM LINE: Carpenter is a tough, effective guard prospect

This was the only other thing that qualified in the non-coach-quote category that I could find, from BuckeyeGrove's Marc Givler:

Carpenter will ultimately leave Moeller as a four-year letter winner. That is certainly not a common occurrence at a program of that caliber. Carpenter has experience playing outside at tackle, but his build will probably take him to the interior at the college level.

247's Steve Wiltfong collected the requisite coach quotes yesterday, and they're good ones. Former head coach John Rodenberg, who named Carpenter the first junior captain in Moeller history before stepping down after last season:

"First of all they're getting a very dedicated football player," Rodenberg said. "His grandfather was a CFL coach and a Division II football coach. Zach is a very intelligent football player. He's well schooled in technique. He has a great intensity about him. I remember when he was a freshman, he had no fear. Came in and got his ass kicked a few times, but he hung in there. Just a fun kid to coach. I still talk to him and he's the ultimate competitor." ...

"He can read defenses well," Rodenberg said. "He has a great first step, strong, he is right now college strong. Benches 405. Squats over 600. He's college strong. Played against great competition. I really believe he's the type of guy that can go in and compete early as a freshman."

Michigan hopes that last bit won't be necessary despite Carpenter's apparent physical readiness.

We finally got some real detail today from 247's Ohio guru, Bill Greene, who did a full breakdown in which he said Carpenter reminded him of a couple middlingly ranked interior linemen who ended up thriving under Warinner's tutelage: Pat Elflein and Billy Price. Here's a chunk from the positive side of the outlook:

This is a physical, head-knocking, road grader on the offensive line, and Carpenter fits perfectly to Ed Warinner's system which places a premium on toughness. Carpenter is far more advanced as a run-blocker than he is as a pass-protector, as are most high school linemen. While some offensive line coaches look at size, length, frame, quickness or footwork first, Warinner looks as nastiness first and once that box is checked he will move on to the other qualities.

Greene noted that Carpenter likely needs conditioning work to reshape his body a bit and shed some bad weight. Even when noting Carpenter's potential shortcomings in pass protection, stemming mostly from a lack of quickness, Greene qualifies by saying he believes Warinner can coach him up to be ready to play in his second or third year on campus.

OFFERS

Carpenter held offers Arkansas, Cincinnati, Clemson, Duke, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisville, Maryland, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Ole Miss, Oregon, Pitt, Rutgers, Syracuse, USF, Vanderbilt, Virginia, West Virginia, and UCLA, among a couple others.

Notably absent from that list is Ohio State, which gave Carpenter some looks but prioritized other linemen and didn't offer before Carpenter was ready to make a commitment. He's unlikely to forget that, especially with Warinner in his ear.

HIGH SCHOOL

While Archbishop Moeller hasn't won as much as they're used to of late after back-to-back state titles in 2012-13, which led to their coach stepping down, it's still one of the big-name programs in Ohio and a regular producer of talent. Four-star DT Aeneas Hawkins signed with Penn State in the 2018 class. The school produced four-star tight ends each of the previous two years in 2016 OSU signee Jake Hausmann and 2017 MSU signee Matt Dotson.

Other notables include former OSU DE Sam Hubbard, former MSU LB Shane Jones, former MSU DE Marcus Rush, and former MSU LB Greg Jones. The Spartans have done very well with the Moeller prospects the Buckeyes left behind; Michigan taking some instead would be a nice change of course.

STATS

OL, no stats.

FAKE 40 TIME

None listed—I don't think Carpenter has done many camps. The impressive 400+ pound bench press and 600-pound squat, if true, are much more relevant to his position anyway.

VIDEO

Junior highlights:

Sophomore highlights and single-game reels can be found on his Hudl page.

PREDICTION BASED ON FLIMSY EVIDENCE

Carpenter will almost certainly get a redshirt year. When he arrives on campus, the presumed starting duo of Ben Bredeson and Mike Onwenu will be seniors, Onwenu challenger Stephen Spanellis a redshirt junior, and Joel Honigford and Chuck Filiaga will be in their third years on campus. Cesar Ruiz is locked in at center until he departs, meanwhile, and Phil Paea is reportedly working there too.

Spots on the two-deep really start to open up the following year, however, and there could be even more opportunity for Carpenter if Ruiz ends up as an early NFL entry candidate. As Greene noted, Warinner has done a lot with interior linemen of Carpenter's size, style, and caliber.

UPSHOT FOR THE REST OF THE CLASS

Michigan is up to 11 commits in the class and five on the offensive line. That's quite an OL class already, but as Sam mentioned, the light OL class last year and the team's general desire for more tackles means they'll go for a sixth lineman, almost certainly a pure OT. Four-star RI OT Xavier Truss, four-star IL OT Trevor Keegan, four-star FL OT William Harrod appear the three most likely candidates, with Keegan and Harrod looking like better bets at the moment than Truss.

Here's the class as it currently stands:

Comments

dragonchild

June 1st, 2018 at 6:49 AM ^

I really do.  It's nice to have a nasty streak, but we've been burned so many times that it's painfully clear it's way down the list of priorities.

The linemen we've done well with, for the most part, are those with smarts, motor, and lateral mobility.  Molk, Lewan, Schofield, Cole, Magnuson. . . these guys were good at seeing what's in front of them and staying in front of it.  Yeah you had to be big enough and strong enough as well, but S&C is an assembly line at this point.  You gotta be able to move at that size, otherwise "nasty" won't matter.  And I've seen way too many "nasty" linemen go 4-5 years here and out without getting that far.

I understand that most HS recruits suck at pass pro so I'm not worried about the pickup per se, but (more an aside here, not a response) I get very annoyed by evaluations saying, "Oh, he can just learn pass pro."  How are you so sure?  I would happily sum up a really good O-lineman as a 300-pound ballet dancer, and I sincerely express that as a compliment.  The guys who amazed me the most were light on their feet for their size, with good short-area burst and refined footwork, and the potential for that is not easy to see in a 300-pound HS kid that's mauling people.  You can set up a decent run game with five "finesse" linemen, but you can't protect the QB with a bunch of knuckle-headed "road-graders" that can't pick up a damn stunt.  Often times it's coaching, but sometimes it's the brain or feet that can't keep up.

GarMoe

May 31st, 2018 at 8:40 PM ^

I sense a catch phrase for Warriner’s approach: On the O-line, all problems are solved with nastiness. Damn it would be great to see a wildly expressive and nasty offense similar or what we see in Doc Brown’s defenses after almost every play with all 11 men tearing things up, flying to blocks, driving opponents into the ground or out of bounds and walking that fine line between controlled violence and penalty flags, just like we do on D. Imagine that....... Essentially the anti-Drevno line.

BlueAggie

May 31st, 2018 at 2:06 PM ^

Moeller also produced Vada Murray, if you want to go back a bit (and Barry Larkin if you want to consider M alums famous for things other than football).

BlueChip27

May 31st, 2018 at 2:08 PM ^

But this seems like a good to great pickup. Agree that it's been eons since we had a good punch the opponent in the face road grading offensive line who plays pissed off.....

It'll be interesting to see who is the next OL to commit.....my money is on Harrod.

Alumnus93

May 31st, 2018 at 11:07 PM ^

sorry to disagree here Carlos, but I will say the Warinner hire outranks Brown hire by a wide margin.....  we still went 8-5 with that D... yes, i know, the O blew...  but we had a good enough D with his predecessor Durkin, and won.  So we got by fine without Brown, sorry to say. But the biggest issue since Lloyd left, has been the OL... yep...  and when this is fixed, then you will see Michigan football return...   So its Warinner...and its not even close...

Goggles Paisano

June 1st, 2018 at 6:29 AM ^

"by a wide margin" and "its not even close".  I disagree by a wide margin.  Warinner has been on campus for what a few months?  We haven't seen anything yet.  How good do you think this defense will be when we have an offense that can move the sticks, stop throwing it to the other team, and keep our defense off the field?  Warinner may prove to be a great hire some day, but putting him ahead of Don Brown and by a "wide margin" is nuts.  

Alumnus93

June 1st, 2018 at 9:05 AM ^

You realize, that the program went off the rails this past decade, squarely on a substandard OL, right ? Disagree all you want, but it sounds to me you aren't old enough to have a point of reference, watching the 70s, 80s, 90s decades... ITS THE OL.  This is Harbaughs biggest hire, by far.   And, by a wide margin.

mitchewr

June 1st, 2018 at 10:07 AM ^

I understand what you're saying and I to some extent I agree. Our defense was already really good before Don Brown got here. Whereas the O-Line is a disaster and needs serious reconstruction and development.

 

That being said, I still think it's a bit too soon to make this statement simply because we haven't seen how Warinner's O-Lines are going to perform. If he turns this debacle around this season and we start dominating in the trenches, then I will 100% agree with you.

 

Here's hoping!

Magnus

May 31st, 2018 at 2:13 PM ^

Michigan's OL recruiting is really odd.

There's a story floating around out there about how Michigan's coaching staff said they felt hampered because they were "playing five offensive guards" on the line...

...so they keep recruiting offensive guard types.

I like Carpenter as a guard prospect, but yeesh, let's get some tackles.

TrueBlue2003

May 31st, 2018 at 2:53 PM ^

current recruiting doesn't solve current depth issues. Recruiting is for 3-4 years in the future.  Our lack of OTs on the team for this year (and last year) was the result of

1) 2015 class: Grant Newsome getting hurt, and Nolan Ulizio being the only other OT

2) 2016 class: zero (!!) OTs taken.

You can't have a two year black hole at a position group that needs two starters plus depth and expect to survive.  And we did not survive last year.

Similarly, as you point out, we only have two interior lineman (if you count Filiaga as interior) in the 2017 and 2018 classes COMBINED which means there will be a major hole on the interior in 2020 and 2021 and the coaches will be complaining that they don't have enough interior guys.  We'll be relying on this 2019 class that will be RS frosh to carry the load after Onwenu and Bredeson leave.  Extra trouble if Ruiz leaves after 3 years.  The Emil Ekiyor decommit was a potential killer.

We have a lot of young, promising OTs on the roster from the 2017 and 2018 classes so should be fine there for 2020 and 2021.  The interior is a potential problem.

TrueBlue2003

May 31st, 2018 at 6:36 PM ^

just that there are zero OTs on the roster from that class.

Bredeson was never going to be a OT if he didn't get kicked outside last year when we had emergency level OT play.  Given that, any talk about him competing with Newsome at OT as a true frosh was standard practice hype that meant nothing.

If you want to call it bad luck (Newsome injury, the decommit, missed eval on Bredeson), that's fine as it was a factor, but whatever you call it, that class is a primary reason our OT depth chart is a giant shrug emoji going into this season.

So I'm surprised at Magnus' comments given that he of all people should be aware that recruiting is for 3-4 years in the future, not to address current needs (especially when the kids they're currently recruiting have one more year of HS left!). The current problems were caused by 2015 and 2016 and to an extent 2017 (missing out on 5 star guys that could have played early) and those problems can't be addressed with 2019 recruiting.  That's why we hit the transfer market hard.

We're actually fairly loaded with young OT talent right now between Steuber, Hudson, Honigford, Hayes and Mayfield so that position should be in good hands for 2019-2021.  Add in Jones, Barnhardt, Jack Stewart and probably another OT-shaped object for 2019 and there is no lack of young OTs on the roster (which is very different than a lack of experienced OTs).

There is a serious lack of young interior linemen, though. So this is a nice pickup.

TrueBlue2003

June 1st, 2018 at 2:58 PM ^

for the past two plus recruiting cycles?

Every guy in the 2017 cycle except Ruiz (so 5 guys counting Hudson) was recruited with the length to potentially be an OT.

Every guy in the 2018 cycle was recruited as a 6'5 or taller OT (Mayfield and Hayes).

And with 2 potential OTs (and another possible in Karsen Barnhardt) in the 2019 class already (Jones and Stewart), your complaint about not getting enough OTs because the staff didn't/doesn't like the options for 2017 and 2018 is disconnected with the past couple cycles of recruiting.  I'm surprised you're complaining about taking an interior guy when he's only the third in the last three cycles for a position group that needs 3 on the field at all times.

The problem with not getting enough OT-types existed in 2015 and 2016 but has seemingly been corrected starting with the 2017 class.  Unless you don't think Steuber or Honigford are OTs. 

And if that's the case, are you suggesting we go after more 6'7 true OTs that would have a much more difficult time moving inside? Doesn't sound like it from the previous comment, but I could get on board with that if it increases the likelihood of having great OTs instead of "swing" types.

Also, the assertion that the interior is rarely the problem is some massive recency bias.  2013 Michigan says hello. A team with NFL OTs was awful thanks to interior line play. The interior is a bit less leveraged than the outside but you still need to have experience in both areas, especially the way M plays.

outsidethebox

June 1st, 2018 at 3:28 PM ^

Amen, brother. If your football team is getting blown up along the line of scrimmage on the interior 10-15 feet, either offensively or defensively, you are not going to win many games. In the 2020 season, if I am the Michigan QB and I have Rumler, Ruiz and Carpenter directly in front of me...my confidence level is pretty high.

DeepBlueC

June 1st, 2018 at 6:44 AM ^

We're in the same position with WR right now.  Everyone is gushing over our current roster, but we got zero WRs last year and only one low rated guy this year.  3 years down the road when all of our current guys are gone, we'll be hurting at that position.

JonnyHintz

June 1st, 2018 at 7:27 AM ^

What are you talking about? We got one guy last year at WR (who is probably underrated due to the fact that he didn’t go to camps and there was next to zero scouting done on him) and we don’t have a WR commit yet this year. So both of your first points are significantly off. Then you have to realize WR is a position Michigan routinely trots out only 2-3 guys at a time. So taking 3 WRs every year isn’t necessary. Now look at the seniority depth chart. Michigan currently has 4 guys with Sophomore eligibility and two with freshman eligibility. Barrett is a guy who is looked at as either a WR or a RB at this point, so that number could be 3 guys with freshman eligibility, two of which can redshirt and maintain freshman eligibility for another year. This also ignores the Flex TE position that Michigan is looking to employ. It’s basically a WR/TE hybrid. Think... Devin Funchess. Guys like Gentry and Eubanks are perfect for that position. Obviously I don’t expect them to come out empty handed at WR this year either. So WR recruiting isn’t an area for concern. Redshirting guys can balance out classes fairly easily. You’re complaining on June 1st about not having a WR commit yet and complaining about not having any high school freshmen or sophomores committed yet. Relax. They’re fine. WR is by far our deepest offensive position, with Tight End being the only close one.

Farnn

May 31st, 2018 at 2:35 PM ^

True, though hopefully the fixes at tackle are already on the roster in Hudson,  Stueber, Honingford, Hayes, and Mayfield.  If Michigan is counting on fixes to the lack of tackles coming from 2019 class we're in for a couple of dissapointing seasons.  With no guards in 2018, they need a few younger guards and they should ride the bench until the 16 and 17 classes have moved on.

Space Coyote

May 31st, 2018 at 2:42 PM ^

As was Stanford under Harbaugh. I disagree with you a bit in that I think they have de ent tackle numbers, even if most of them come in the form of “swing” players. But with Harbaugh’s scheme, that isn’t necessarily that off. Sure, they’d love some big time OTs, but short of those guys, I think they got two OTs last year and a few swing guys this year.

Magnus

May 31st, 2018 at 7:25 PM ^

This isn't coming from me. This is coming from inside the program - the staff's best five guys were all offensive guards.

During Stanford's run they've had Andrus Peat, Cameron Fleming, Jonathan Martin, etc., guys who have all played tackle at Stanford and then gone on to play OT in the NFL. Meanwhile, Mason Cole projects as an interior guy, they won't play Bredeson at OT despite a glaring need, etc. So I don't really buy that Harbaugh's system is good with having a bunch of swing guys, because they didn't do that at Stanford, that's not how the NFL sees these guys, etc.

I know the Andrus Peats of the world don't grow on trees, but we're overrun with guards right now.

I'm not a huge fan of recruiting a ton of swing guys. I'd rather recruit offensive tackles, and let the less talented ones move inside to OG.

Alumnus93

May 31st, 2018 at 11:02 PM ^

THANK YOU....  holy cow I thought I was the only one with the underlying frustration these past four years, of all these interior guys and no tackles... best to get the tackles in abundance and kick some inside than vice versa.   Am just shocked how Harbaugh and Drevno didn't see the problem when they arrived and adjusted... or maybe they did and got blocked out of their guys with no real plan Bs

JonnyHintz

June 1st, 2018 at 7:39 AM ^

I don’t think that’s true though. Just look at the guys with freshman or sophomore eligibility. You have 6 guys there, 7 if you include Hayes (coming in as a TE and expected to move). From that list you have: Ruiz: G/C Hayes: TE/T Mayfield: T Stuebner: T Honigford: T/G Filiaga: T/G Hudson: T That’s extremely balanced. Ruiz is the only guy who is strictly an interior prospect. There are a few flex guys and a few guys that are true tackle types. Looking at the 2019 class and you’ve already taken Trente Jones as a sure tackle, Barnhart and Stewart are your swing guys, Carpenter and Rumler are your inside guys (and potential Ruiz replacements), and the staff is looking to take one more true tackle type. It seems like you’re making the mistake of looking at the issues at the starting spots and mistaking it as a roster balance issue. It’s been addressed in the last two classes almost exclusively. I see you say you’re not a swing guy fan, but you’re a fan of moving failed tackles inside. Isn’t that what a swing guy is? A guy capable of playing both? I’d much rather have a guy already capable to play both than have to teach a guy a position he has no clue how to play and doesn’t have the typical skill set to play.

mitchewr

June 1st, 2018 at 10:13 AM ^

I think the implication here is that all tackles have the physical capabilities to move inside and play guard while not all guards have the physical capabilities to move outside and play tackle.

 

Assuming this is the case, the best possible solution would be to recruit all highly talented true tackles and put the best ones on the outside at the actual tackle positions and the others move inside. 

 

But I'm not OP so obviously this is just a guess