Standard for BBall fouls?
So, I'm not a big BBall fan and really don't watch outside of the UM games (and only recently at that). However, I have been watching FB for a few decades now and somewhat couch my basis for evaluating officiating in that (and noting here that technical fouls ARE NOT CALLED IN FOOTBALL... just for reference).
As such, I've found BBall games incredibly frustrating to watch, winning or losing, due to the officiating (specifically, the inconsistency of the calls, game to game and within the same games). Just tonight - plays with the same amount of contact go uncalled most of the game, then are called, then are ignored. There seems to be an inherent problem with the game when the rules are designed (via the bonus structure) for teams to be expected to commit double-digit fouls per game. In FB, there is always the issue of holding and PI judgement calls, but normally it's obvious to most of the fans when it should be called (and there are not that many calls per game).
Maybe I'm just not experienced enough in watching/evaluating BBall games, so people with more expertise please chime in. Is the officiating (generally, not just UM games) really an issue? Are the calls subject to that much of the whims of the crew (TV Teddy instances aside)? Is this just a Big Ten officiating trend or all CBB?
Edit: I implied this in the OP, but I will explicitly state here: I am not putting today's loss on the officiating. In games where UM has won also, the offiating just seems inconsistent or at times arbitrary )as though the officials feel that each team should have about the same number of fouls, even if one team is playing less physical than the other).February 6th, 2018 at 9:12 PM ^
February 6th, 2018 at 9:40 PM ^
February 7th, 2018 at 5:53 AM ^
February 6th, 2018 at 9:14 PM ^
But it wouldn’t be right without the perennial MGoWhine about officials screwing M.
February 6th, 2018 at 9:53 PM ^
February 7th, 2018 at 1:05 AM ^
February 6th, 2018 at 9:22 PM ^
February 6th, 2018 at 9:23 PM ^
February 6th, 2018 at 9:36 PM ^
February 7th, 2018 at 7:18 AM ^
Towards the end of the game, maybe the last three minutes, they called a BS call on D Robinson as well, I am not sure he touched the guy, but I think the ref just anticipated that he was going to and blew the whistle....I just don't get it some times. Refs suck, we just still don't have that guy to take the game over this year, was hoping Charles was going to be that guy, but nope.
February 7th, 2018 at 10:14 AM ^
The ballcarrier pushed D Rob with an extended forearm, and Robinson got called for the foul. I don't think that was an offensive foul, but it certainly hasn't a foul on Robinson.
Then one of the next possession's, the NW ballcarrier literally shoves MAAR (or Z, can't remember) to the ground. That was an offensive foul, but no call.
It was frustrating officiating, but we had some soft calls go our way as well. The main issue was too many missed shots & FTs.
February 7th, 2018 at 10:17 AM ^
February 6th, 2018 at 9:24 PM ^
February 6th, 2018 at 9:34 PM ^
February 6th, 2018 at 9:44 PM ^
February 7th, 2018 at 10:18 AM ^
February 6th, 2018 at 9:25 PM ^
February 6th, 2018 at 9:35 PM ^
I agree with you. That being said, I consider Michigan Basketball to be my third UM sport behind football and hockey, and don't like the sport as much in general (partly for the reason noted in OP). I've loved Michigan basketball my whole life, but really can't stand watching other hoops unless I have a VERY strong rooting interest for a particular team in the game.
I think it is just an inherent problem with the sport that makes it a lesser sport; It's almost impossible for two people to agree on the amount of contact that should be allowed in basketball on a consistant basis. This is why refs are almost inclined to be a baseline of questionable game in and game out. It's also much harder game in general to officiate as you have to use your own judgement significantly more than just follow a rulebook like other sports. Judgement calls exist in other sports, but not nearly as frequently as basketball.
As other commenters have noted, we got bigger problems to worry about when it comes to Michigan winning games. I trust that Coach Beilein can use this setback as an important teaching moment for this team, and we can finish this season in a very strong way, especially against OSU and in the tournaments!
Go Blue, time to get into full work mode.
February 6th, 2018 at 9:29 PM ^
Basketball is the toughest sport to officiate. You want to manage flow, but the rules are written and applied in a way that puts judgement in the refs hands quite often. Like holding in football, you could probably find a foul on almost every trip down the floor if a team shows any defensive effort and intensity.
February 6th, 2018 at 11:51 PM ^
Its a non contact sport. If you initiate contact or impeded someone’s path (if they got there first) its generally a foul. Traveling is an easy call. Out of bounds is reviewable now. Charges can be tough not impossible to get right Whats hard about officiating basketball? If you played the game you can make 99 % of the calls right without thinking.
Football is dam hard ti officiate. Holding, downfield lineman, grounding, catches!!!. Getting fumbles right, forward progress. Spots!!!? My god. Calling balls and strikes or a bang band play is really hard too. Basketball is soooo easy in comparison. What ate you taking about???
February 7th, 2018 at 12:19 AM ^
and if you don't think so, you've clearly never played. But that's what makes it so hard to officiate. Every single drive to the hoop, every single post-up there is contact and the refs have to determine whether the contact was relatively incidental or whether it impeded the offensive player enough to change his path or affect the shot.
Football is really hard too, but there are like 6 refs, each with a different job and section of the field so it's not like that all have all those responsibilities.
They're both hard to ref. In both sports fan bitch all the time (rightfully). Gotta overcome it.
February 7th, 2018 at 5:50 AM ^
I reffed kids rec ball when I was a high school player. It is really a lot harder than it looks and these were just kids. I found it to be the hardest sport to officiate without a doubt.
February 6th, 2018 at 9:29 PM ^
February 6th, 2018 at 9:31 PM ^
February 6th, 2018 at 9:56 PM ^
February 6th, 2018 at 10:22 PM ^
February 6th, 2018 at 10:25 PM ^
February 6th, 2018 at 10:02 PM ^
February 6th, 2018 at 10:57 PM ^
February 6th, 2018 at 9:52 PM ^
much worse than Ugly win.
February 6th, 2018 at 9:55 PM ^
February 7th, 2018 at 5:31 AM ^
February 6th, 2018 at 10:13 PM ^
maybe street ball rules need to be used. No Blood. No Foul.
February 6th, 2018 at 10:14 PM ^
February 6th, 2018 at 10:39 PM ^
February 6th, 2018 at 11:10 PM ^
Am i missing something here? Were there posts removed because this comment makes no sense in response to mine.
February 6th, 2018 at 11:21 PM ^
February 6th, 2018 at 11:53 PM ^
no worries. just confusing.
February 6th, 2018 at 10:20 PM ^
February 6th, 2018 at 10:24 PM ^
February 7th, 2018 at 12:01 AM ^
Apparently you need a high caliber coach to run the former and teams that are athletic and work for inside shots tend to cheat and get put on probation more often so why bother doing that because the Fab 5 proved it leads to decades of misery.
February 7th, 2018 at 5:45 AM ^
February 7th, 2018 at 8:54 AM ^
February 7th, 2018 at 5:52 AM ^
February 7th, 2018 at 10:16 AM ^
The one thing that bothers me so much about basketball is that the refs tend to affect the outcome of the game more often and more severely than other sports. You definitely see it in other sports, but the refs affect the outcome of basketball a lot more often even if not on purpose. It is extremely inconsistant game to game and even minute to minute.