OT: Beaver stadium future possibly in jeopardy.
August 14th, 2015 at 11:31 AM ^
If they do and keep building up, they might as well rename their university "Wayside School".
Maybe 2 people get that reference.
August 14th, 2015 at 11:38 AM ^
The first Wayside School book was written in teh '70s, the last one in the mid-90s. If anything, it should be everyone else surprised that you get the reference.
August 14th, 2015 at 11:42 AM ^
Wow, I thought that was a 90s thing. Those books were all the rage in 2nd grade at my school.
August 14th, 2015 at 11:50 AM ^
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August 14th, 2015 at 5:17 PM ^
Your mom was all the rage last night
August 14th, 2015 at 11:51 AM ^
At least as far as I remember (for it has been many years since I read anything Wayside School-related), "Louis The Yard Teacher" is a reference to Louis Sachar's time helping out in a Berkeley, CA elementary school as that is what the kids in the class would call him when he helped supervise recess.
August 14th, 2015 at 11:56 AM ^
Oh, I remember those books. I didn't know the series continued after the second one (when the cows took over the school building).
August 14th, 2015 at 1:12 PM ^
The 2nd one was written in the 80s.
I was awfully familiar with the Louis Sachar books of that time. That was the author my teachers and parents finally convinced me to read when they determined "he really needs to read some books that aren't non-fiction; I appreciate that he wants to learn about animals, dinosaurs, space, and "How Stuff Works", but he really needs to learn to read fiction."
So Wayside School it was.
August 14th, 2015 at 11:40 AM ^
August 14th, 2015 at 11:31 AM ^
It's spot on. The school's previous 30k-seat stadium was taken apart and moved to the current location in 1960, adding seats to make capacity 46,284. There have been seven subsequent expansions and one reduction of 710 seats to make the place ADA compliant.
August 14th, 2015 at 1:17 PM ^
Beaver Stadium has frankly never been an aesthetically great place, but at least prior to 2001 from inside the stadium one could see a portion of the campus and neighboring Mt. Nittany and Tussey Mountain. It was a fairly picturesque scene.
Then they put the upper deck on the south end zone (an upper deck was put on the north end zone in 1990, before my time). Blocked that out entirely.
If it was up to me, we'd start a new stadium from scratch. I'll just fund that entire $1,000,000,000 bill on my own --- no problem there. :-)
August 14th, 2015 at 2:07 PM ^
on account of aesthetics.
August 14th, 2015 at 8:16 PM ^
The end zone decks don't even match. The south has two decks, the north only one.
Each new section always occurs in a vacuum at Beaver Stadium.
August 14th, 2015 at 11:33 AM ^
Yeah this is super easy to believe if you have ever been to or seen the place, it looks like someone made a stdaium with a set of giant Kinex. Looks like the just took all the junk metal from abandoned coal mines and welded it together until you could sit in it.
August 14th, 2015 at 12:01 PM ^
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August 14th, 2015 at 12:07 PM ^
I mean it did house a mega-felon for many years. State Penn.
August 14th, 2015 at 11:34 AM ^
August 14th, 2015 at 11:40 AM ^
I haven't been there but I have never experienced a concourse quite like our wind tunnels that feel as cold as a cave in Alaska but with 30 mph winds in November or in the spring.
They definitely needed to renovate and add more concession stands back during the 2007 renovation. Unfortunately for me, a guy who adored the stadium's classic bowl look, they went to infinity and beyond with their renovation plan.
August 14th, 2015 at 5:18 PM ^
I like your mom's classic bowl look
August 14th, 2015 at 6:02 PM ^
I haven't been there but I have never experienced a concourse quite like our wind tunnelsHow many stadium concourses have you visited?
August 15th, 2015 at 12:39 AM ^
August 14th, 2015 at 11:34 AM ^
A renovation, even a significant one, would cost probably at most $350 million. If TPC Stadium cost $300 Million to construct, a stadium nearly double the size would probably cost upwards to $450 to $500 million (land would be more easily accessed at PSU, but I have to think that the cost with going bigger isn't necessarily linear).
August 14th, 2015 at 11:43 AM ^
That's a big golf stadium. Did you mean TCF?
It all depends on how big the renovation really is. Our renovation only (only) cost about $250 mil, right? But I don't know how much more involved theirs would be. It's also possible that being in the middle of BFE affects the price compared to Minneapolis more than you think. I don't know, I'm just thinking.
August 14th, 2015 at 12:53 PM ^
you can only repair and fix up a clunker for so long till you have to replace it. Penn State is a rich school with rich alums. They can raise the money if they need to.
Another thing to consider is that major renovations often end up being a significant percent of the price of a new stadium. I think they'll take a serious look at what gets them the most bang for their buck. It's going to have to be replaced eventually. Why not now?
August 14th, 2015 at 1:13 PM ^
For a huge school, they aren't so rich. Our endowment is close to 10 B, there's is close to 3 B, but Michigan does well for a public university.
While their stadium rocks with Penn State fans, when things are going well, it looks like an old stadium that has had sections added over the years, which is, of course, what happened. It just seems like a bunch of pieces that were cheaply thrown together. Michigan Stadium after the renovation (and before), in part to it being a bowl, looks finished.
I think the renovation really made the crown jewel that we have sparkle.
August 14th, 2015 at 2:26 PM ^
In terms of football schools - they're quite rich. Comparing them to us to say they aren't rich is like comparing Mark Curban to Warren Buffett and saying he's not rich. Michigan, in terms of public universities (or really any non-Ivy League school) is extremely wealthy.
The endowment that PSU has is larger than any football school outside a select few (Michigan, ND, Texas, USC, UVa) and handful of others that are within 10% or so. PSU's is $3.4 Billion, and the highest non-Vandy SEC school is Florida at $1.5B. Alabama's system-wide endowment is $1,2B.
I'm not sure this is even applicable to football, but you brought it up. Saying that PSU isn't a rich school is just false. In terms of overall financials and AD financials, PSU is in the top 5-10 nationally.
August 14th, 2015 at 2:41 PM ^
an 850 vs 820 credit score.
The question is how much can PSU finance on a football stadium reasonably?
If the financing is done solely against the cash flows generated by football (who wants to blow the endowment on football intentionally?), then the size of the endowments are irrelevant. I'm guessing, however, that Michigan and PSU would guarantee the debt with the university as a whole to secure a lower interest rate.
Still, the deal needs to make sense on the projected cash flows first, and the assets of the endowment would only backstop the financing in a very unusual event. Using the credit score analogy, 850 vs 820 isn't going to make much of a difference. The annual revenue generated by each football program would be by far the most important determinant.
August 14th, 2015 at 11:38 AM ^
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August 14th, 2015 at 11:43 AM ^
August 14th, 2015 at 11:45 AM ^
Thanks. I just had it stuffed.
August 14th, 2015 at 11:54 AM ^
Curse you, Jack Hammer, for being 3 seconds faster on the draw.
August 14th, 2015 at 12:05 PM ^
only happened to him once...I swear.
August 14th, 2015 at 12:35 PM ^
How do you know, hmmm?
August 14th, 2015 at 12:01 PM ^
I have not seen it in person (only pictures and on TV) but I think their stadium is unique and part of who they are. It is old, antiquated, and an eye-sore but it has been that way long enough, why change it now?
I have always liked the fact you can see all of the lights at night from the outside. Looks like an oil rig.
August 14th, 2015 at 12:20 PM ^
Crisler built the Big House to seat a ton of people to start, and with the foundation to be expanded. That place looks like the vacation house that gets added to in bits and pieces over the years with no overarching plan. And, sounds like there are real "foundational" issues that they should think about. Probably cost $300-400MM to fully fix that dump; you could have a brandspanking new one for not a whole lot more than that, I would guess. And, not have 4-7 years of a stadium under renovation.
Not like history is losing any great edifice if you blow that place up.
August 14th, 2015 at 1:07 PM ^
My guess is $800MM - $1.0b for a complete rebuild.
August 14th, 2015 at 10:54 PM ^
Not even a chance... a stadium in a big city might cost that, with high rates for construction work, but not in State College.
August 14th, 2015 at 1:34 PM ^
August 14th, 2015 at 2:34 PM ^
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August 14th, 2015 at 12:28 PM ^
wait for it.
August 14th, 2015 at 12:48 PM ^
I bet they keep it. They tend to revere their older instituations and no amount of evidence can stop them.
August 14th, 2015 at 2:01 PM ^
No amount of evidence? You mean like covering up raping youg boys for 10+ years?!
August 14th, 2015 at 12:51 PM ^
this is the outside
Looks like some kind of Soviet constructed mess. Can't say it looks tremendously sound either
August 14th, 2015 at 2:12 PM ^
The Blue Streak?
Maybe that's part of the excitement of attending a Penn State football game. Will I die in a stadium collapse?
August 14th, 2015 at 1:16 PM ^
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August 14th, 2015 at 1:50 PM ^
If they build a new one you know they will build it bigger than the big house so I'm pulling for renovate here.
August 14th, 2015 at 1:58 PM ^
With Harbaugh and the largest alumni base in the nation I think we could fill it
Plus they literally are in the middle of nowhere. They have to max out at some point.
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August 14th, 2015 at 2:30 PM ^
I'm surprised they fill up most of the time. It's about 2 hours from anything
August 14th, 2015 at 1:52 PM ^
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August 14th, 2015 at 2:03 PM ^
... and they do a 409 graphic on the 40 yard line numerals... because, ya know, St Joe got his wins back!