OT-LeBron James vs. Michael Jordan
LeBron might still have 5 years left of playing at the level he is right now. His game last night was another incredible display. Relevancy bias aside as I am 47 years old Lebron has the best combination of athleticisim and physichal dominance I have ever seen in person.
MJ had to get past the bad boy Pistons. He also had to play against Magic, Worthy and the Lakers as well as Larry, Parrish and McHale for the Celtics. Though no fault of his own Lebron never faced the level of competition MJ did. MJ had Pippen but MJ helped create Pippen I am not sure the same can be said for Dwayne Wade.
Defensively I will take MJ over LJ all day and this is where most people forget the dominance of MJ.
Interesting comparison here:
http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/j/lebron_james_vs_michael_jordan.htm
Watching MJ and now LeBron is special. The next 5 years will sway many opinion no doubt but it is highly unlikely LeBron plays AAA baseball and comes back for another Championship.
not even a debate
Both obviously have superhuman powers, but Jordan is more competitive, and therefore more effective at getting to the prize, and for that reason will always be the superior player in my opinion. Mike Valenti (yeah, I know) asked this hypothetical on the radio last week, which I felt was on point: if you put LeBron and Jordan in a room and tell them that only one of them gets to walk out, which one is going to kill the other in order to win?
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Though it be worth far less than that:
MJ is the best pure scorer the game has ever seen. You could argue Wilt there too, but there was no one to stand against Wilt in his prime w/ regard to scoring.
MJ could score at will, on whomever he wanted, and he was a true assassin when it came to the Finals.
Lebron is not the scorer or killer Jordan was. He doesn't have that same instinct. What he does have is the ability to make every player around him better. Delly, Thompson, Mozgov, Shumpert, all come alive when playing with Lebron. I'm not sure MJ gets out of them what Lebron gets out of them.
What Lebron also has over Jordan is pure athleticism (as many have already stated). He's just a bigger, faster, stronger dude. Jordan was a much better ball handler, I will say that for sure, but Lebron's vision, passing, defense are all top notch.
I think they have to be 1 and 1a and you could make an argument for either of them being in either position.
I'd still probably take Jordan but that's because I have this moment seered into my mind:
And that's not even his greatest moment ever. Just remember watching that game and being in awe of his command and confidence.
.......this thread SUCKS! is because the OP never had any interest in objective debate, he's just a MJ fanbois who was looking to argue about it.
MJ never beat that "better" competition he faced, he got his rings during IMO the worst stretch of NBA basketball of all time, mostly because of the transition to the "above the rim" style.
Plus MJ got a lot of help from David Stern since he was the "golden goose", LeBron didn't get help from ANYBODY. Hell even his hometown burned him.
And he still wants to bring his hometown a ship, gotta give him respect for that.
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I am very interested in objective debate however I also have my own opinion I wish to share same as you.
The league is watered down and soft compared to when Jordan played. All I have to say is Jordan scoring 45 with the flu to beat a team with two HOFs (Malone and Stockton) and a very strong supporting cast to win his 6th title at time when hand checking was allowed and physical, defensive play the norm.
Now I am not proclaiming Jordan the best of all time because there are peers and players from earlier generations that deserve to be in the discussion, but this Jordan v. James debate is ridiculous.
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i think thats a completely different debate. If we're talking about players you'd take number #1 overall all time, I'd choose Shaq.
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It is difficult to compare players in different eras because the game changes. What I recall is Chicago gained success because Jordan changed his game. The Jordan rules worked because you hedged the jumper. Jordan adjusted such that he became a very good jump shooter. Instead of using his amazing gifts to drive to the basic he realized he could jump over smaller or slower defenders and get an uncontested shot off whenever he wanted to. The second item that helped was the evolution of the 3pt game. Chicago surrounded Jordan with good spot up shooters that when he was doubled got 3 instead of 2. This was the beginning of the era of really serious 3pt ball.
James is never going to be the precision jump shooter that MJ became. I agree the better comparison is Magic. The one area where I think James is better is that he has shown that even in this age of increased physicality he can still post. He can literally run an isolation play starting anywhere up top and back into the paint. No worry about figuring out how to post in the paint. He already has the ball.
Jordan was definitely a better scorrer because he had the more consistant jump shot. However, James has always been the better defender. Jordan especially later in his career was vulnerable to quicker cards. And we of course recall the destruction at the hands of Adrian Dantley when Jordan fouled out in a single half when he insisted he would guard Dantley. James though not a lockdown defender against a pure point guard was far more effective guarding Tony Parker then Jordan ever could be.
But MJ is the best basketball player ever in the history of the sport. Period.
James is a lot of other things...most versitile, may win 1 on 1, can guard the most positions, maybe even the 2nd best player ever in the history of the sport.
But as someone who's studied both...it's really not even a question at this point because LeBron doesn't have this championship with Cleveland yet...if he gets this, he's worth a mention. If he gets two, it's a debate.
Jordan's reign over (a tougher) NBA trumphs anything LeBron's done to this point. The caveat will be winning a ring this year - but LeBron hasn't done that, so we can't just give it to him just like we can't give Tiger however many more majors to pass Jack.
For me it's not about only rings (otherwise let's make Robert Horry an all-time great), it's not about ANY one thing. It's about the combination of everything.
LeBron is trending up, but he's not there yet. MJ sits at a table by himself, LeBron is sitting with Magic, Bird, Dr. J, and a host of others, which is nothing to sneeze at, but it's not Mike.
I think people have a harder time rooting for LBJ. The guys has always been an absolute freak of nature. he could go play WR in the NFL tomorrow and be successful. People want to root for people like themselves. Not to say LBJ hasnt worked his ass off to get where he is today, but there isnt a person on the planet that has more god given natural talent. MJ was cut form his team early in HS and developed into a superstar in college. LBJ was the best player on the court since he could lace up his shoes. People hate that.
never said MJ didnt have a ton of natural talent. never said either player didnt have to work on their craft. alls i sais is LBJ is the most plysically gifted athlete on the planet.
When LeBron goes undefeating in the NBA finals we can have this conversation.
MJ is still the greatest
Jordan wasn't afraid of the dunk contest. He wins.
is that he considers an assist as more important than a basket. He is a team player. When I compare him to players of the past, I see him as more of a Magic Johnson style player than a MJ style player and that is a compliment. Kobe Bryant is the Michael Johnson clone of this generation (and that is not a complement). By the way, I think Tim Duncan is the most under rated player of our time just because he played for a great team in a small market. In fact, I would rate Tim Duncan above MJ as a player that makes a difference in bringing championships to a team. I never saw MJ as the team player that both LeBron and Duncan are.
We Akronites were always proud of LeBron and don't care what Cleveland thought. We are always proud of LeBron (and Curry too!)
I agree with what you said except, I would rank Duncan above Kobe, not MJ on those terms.
NBA Finals
Jordan- 6-0
LBJ- Possibly 2-4 or 3-3 this year
Kobe 5-2
Magic 5-4
Bill Russell: 11-1
MJ couldnt get past the Celtics, Pistons, and Lakers until the prime of those team were over. Magic and Larry were actually really close to retiring by the time MJ took reigns.That said, Jordan is the best ive ever seen in my 33 yrs and if Lebron keeps winning he might take the top spot. Only time will tell.
FWW, I am a diehard Pistons fan and couldnt stand all the MJ love when he was playing. And the shit he pulled with Dream Team still pisses me off to this day.
Both are/were phenomenol, and as others have pointed out, the bigger/stronger Lebron isn't as graceful with the ball as MJ or as tenacious on D. But nobody in the history of basketball has the physical gifts/ complete package like Lebron; and Lebron is on a mission to carry the whole team on his back...and he's freaking doing it! If I had to pick one person in the world with which to build a clone army, I would chose Lebron!
Lb is a great player but not individually dominant like MJ was.
As far as the type of player he is, more comparable to pippen than Jordan. As far as skill level, much more skilled than pippen but that's the type of player he is.
He is, frankly, soft, and just doesn't have the chutzpah to carry a team like Jordan.
I am convinced that if lb and MJ played one on-one, not just in their prime, but RIGHT NOW that Lebron would have another tape to destroy.
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