Bosch didn't want to transfer
January 6th, 2015 at 2:29 PM ^
For as much grief as everyone around here likes to give Nick Saban grief for oversigning and then forcing players out, we sure are immediately ready to give Harbaugh the benefit of the doubt in situations like this.
I'm not saying Harbaugh did anything wrong, nor am I defending Saban's practices. I'm just pointing out how blatently obvious the bias is here. If an identical article was posted about a Bama player, there would immediately be 20 comments about how Saban is running players off to make room for the new crop.
January 6th, 2015 at 2:31 PM ^
Attrition would be expected at the start of a new coach's tenure, so no. I wouldn't criticize Saban for that.
January 6th, 2015 at 2:33 PM ^
You'd have a point if we had more than 6 commits for next year's class so far.
January 6th, 2015 at 2:36 PM ^
So, is it okay if a coach tells a player "you should really transfer" before he signs the new class, but not okay after? I'm not saying that's what happened here, I'm just posing a hypothetical. It seems pretty sketchy to me either way.
January 6th, 2015 at 2:50 PM ^
January 6th, 2015 at 2:55 PM ^
I mean, don't you think the "you should really transfer" statement could easily be couched in a choice like that? I have no idea how oversigning schools do their unofficial cuts, but Bosch's statements make it sound like he really wanted to stay, but felt that whatever these stipulations were, they made it impossible for him to do so.
If I wanted to cut a player, that sounds about how I would do it. Make it his "choice" that really isn't a choice.
Again, that sounds harsh on Harbaugh, and I don't mean to say that I think Harbaugh cut him. I have no idea. But I think we should try to take off the "OMG I HEART HARBAUGH" blinders and try to approach the situation neutrally.
January 6th, 2015 at 3:06 PM ^
January 6th, 2015 at 3:11 PM ^
I agree with you that all of those are more likely. The only point I was trying to make is that we don't know, and we only assume it's one of those options you posted beucase we like Harbaugh. But if the same thing happened at a school we don't like, we would assume the player is being cut.
That's the sort of thinking that makes sports message boards unreadable (e.g., RCMB) and I love this place, so I don't want it to become like that. So when I see it, I criticize it.
January 6th, 2015 at 3:15 PM ^
January 6th, 2015 at 2:52 PM ^
to oranges. It doesn't sound like Harbaugh is forcing him out.
January 6th, 2015 at 3:04 PM ^
Telling a player that they're not likely to see the 3 deep and that you would release them from transfer but won't be renewing their scholarship is very definitely not oversigning, which is offering a player a scholarship, having them commit, and then rescinding that scholarship without warning because you don't have enough slots.
January 6th, 2015 at 3:12 PM ^
That's not what happens in the typical oversigning situation. The problem with oversigning is that you signed too many players, so you cut some older guys who are not panning out in order to make room for the new crop.
January 6th, 2015 at 3:58 PM ^
Lloyd Carr handed Chris Perry his transfer papers at some point during his career at Michigan. That makes Carr as bad as Saban's cutting of players, according to your logic.
January 6th, 2015 at 2:33 PM ^
The two situations are not comparable. Harbaugh isinstalling his culture. A culture that will be very different than Hoke's. Players leave during coaching changes. This one will probably generate more than usual because of culture shock.
What Saban did is run off players HE RECRUITED in order to fill their spots with what he perceived as better players.
January 6th, 2015 at 2:43 PM ^
Of course that's true. I'm not saying Harbaugh is running him off. I'm saying it's possible that Harbaugh is running him off, but people are so biased they would not even consider the possibility. It's this kind of thinking that leads people to justify things like oversigning.
I'm not sure I see the relevance of who recruited the player. Does a new coach have the right to cut a player signed by the previous coach? Again, I'm not saying that's what happened here, I'm just saying we should approach it from a neutral perspective.
January 6th, 2015 at 2:47 PM ^
Cut and run off are two different things. To run someone off is to run them so hard in training that they quit. Cutting someone is simply telling their scholarship is revoked.
Running off sounds harsh, but it's fair. The coach is giving a kid a chance to meet his expectations.Every kid on Michigan have to undergo the same processs. Some will leave(thus ran off) because they cannot handle or accept the challenges Harbaugh has presented them with.
January 6th, 2015 at 2:52 PM ^
Okay. So, doesn't that justify what Saban does?
January 6th, 2015 at 3:12 PM ^
Saban is cutting people regardless of how hard they try just so he can sign better players.
January 6th, 2015 at 3:16 PM ^
I mean, you say that like it's established fact. Do you have some evidence? As far as I know, when you look at statements of players run off by Saban, they never sound any worse than this. Why don't you give Saban the benefit of the doubt that you're giving Harbaugh?
January 6th, 2015 at 3:32 PM ^
...because there is no coaching change. Saban knows his talent and his culture is already instilled. I'm really confused on how you think they are comparable situations.
January 6th, 2015 at 3:55 PM ^
I'm clearly not doing a very good job of communicating what I'm trying to say, so I'll just stop.
January 6th, 2015 at 4:40 PM ^
thread that made sense.
January 6th, 2015 at 3:55 PM ^
and Texas will be a better team for it. That was the first thing Charlie did, was get rid of the Mack Brown air of entitlement.
The team will be much better when all is said and done...
January 6th, 2015 at 5:09 PM ^
Charlie Strong will end his career at Texas:
- with fewer wins than Mack Brown
- with fewer bowl wins than Mack Brown
- with fewer top-5 teams than Mack Brown
- with fewer national championships than Mack Brown
- with more losing seasons than Mack Brown
Let's come back in a decade and compare.
January 6th, 2015 at 2:59 PM ^
January 6th, 2015 at 2:37 PM ^
January 6th, 2015 at 2:39 PM ^
Okay, that's a good point.
January 6th, 2015 at 4:16 PM ^
He lied to his team about pursuing Peyton. Which would have gotten Alex Smith released or traded. That's about it.
January 6th, 2015 at 2:38 PM ^
This isn't about clearing the roster for more promising talent.
Most of the fanbase (at least those that post on this board) and, I imagine, the staff, were looking forward to seeing Kyle on the field next year.
Besides, there is not enough time this recruiting season to take advantage of multiple, new open schollies.
January 6th, 2015 at 2:38 PM ^
This is a unique situation where a player left the program for "personal issues" and no one on this blog (that I know of) knows what they are. He then decided to come back and was told to adhere to certain rules or transfer.
Anyone commenting on the morality of the situation needs to take a step back and wait for all the details come out because there are literally no details that can lead people to jump to any educated conclusions.
January 6th, 2015 at 2:42 PM ^
I completely agree with you. I'm saying "hmmm, that sounds a little weird. Could be something I'm uncomfortable with, need more data." The purpose of my post was to grip that most posters here have already dismissed that possibility.
January 6th, 2015 at 2:43 PM ^
What he's saying is that if this had happened at Alabama, people would be saying the "personal issues" reason is just a smokescreen.
January 6th, 2015 at 3:00 PM ^
January 6th, 2015 at 3:36 PM ^
Yes absolutely sure. how can he judge the talent level of someone he hasn't seen play and compare it to others he hasn't seen play for outside of games which he has stated he hasn't watched much of. This whole argument is absolutely ridiculous. Its a coaching change, it causes attrition, its nothing like Saban cutting players. No one claims to know about the morality because we don't know the stipulations. Nucky was correctly stating it wasn't due to talent.
January 6th, 2015 at 2:40 PM ^
Harbaugh didn't exactly run the kid out of the program. The kid left the team back in September, mid-season, which is pretty damn odd to begin with. Obviously there were some big-time issues to begin with.
It sounds like Harbaugh didn't give him an open door back onto the team--he was going to have to work (or follow special rules, or do SOMETHING) to get back in, and he didn't want to do that work or follow those rules or whatever. Who is to say what the work or rules entailed? Maybe it was unreasonable, maybe it wasn't. But Bosch was the one who left the team in the first place. I have no idea if he left for a good reason or not, but when you up and leave a team mid-season, who knows what is going to happen next.
January 6th, 2015 at 2:39 PM ^
People will neg you but you're exactly right.
January 6th, 2015 at 2:42 PM ^
Bosch left the team under the previous staff and is a promising player in a thin position group. Oversigning is the least of our worries at this point. Replacing Bosch could be difficult.
While you might be right that people jump on Saban whenever a player leaves his program, that's a separate issue based on his documented history. There is no reason to question Harbaugh's motives. Why shouldn't we give him the benefit of the doubt?
January 6th, 2015 at 2:44 PM ^
not because this was anti-Harbaugh, but because it makes no damn sense.
Harbaugh hasn't oversigned anyone. Even without losses, the team needs a few OL in this class. There is zero shady reason why Harbaugh would want him gone.
January 6th, 2015 at 2:55 PM ^
Whoa there Sunshine - didnt this kid leave on his own?
And when he tried to return to a new coach and staff that hadn't recruited him nor excused him to take time for personal reasons, didn't this kid choose to leave AGAIN rather than meet whatever conditions were set down for his return?
Toss your Saban comparisons around a little more cautiously, friend-o. Unless 5 years from now there's either a pattern to point to, OR you'd like to point out that JH has won numerous NC, like Saban!!!
January 6th, 2015 at 3:14 PM ^
I think you're trying too hard to be The Objective Guy.
Each year, Saban signs so many players that he's well over the limit and has to find ways to trim the roster down. This is not the case with Michigan right now. Michigan, as far as we know, does not need Bosch's scholarship. This just seems like a classic case of a player and his new coach not seeing eye to eye for whatever reason.
January 6th, 2015 at 3:35 PM ^
Maybe so. But I find many of the posts in this thread disgusting; either implying or even directly stating that Bosch is soft, a quitter, or otherwise not willing to do the work to stay on the team, when we in reality have no idea what the situation is. And the reason people are willing to say such things is because they are so eager to praise anything Harbaugh does, without even a moment of critical thinking.
January 6th, 2015 at 3:39 PM ^
We have no idea what happened, what was said... nada. So why would you go on with all of these hypotheticals that could explain why Bosch was maybe treated badly? It's just as dumb as people saying that Harbaugh forced him out. We know nothing, LJ.
January 6th, 2015 at 3:42 PM ^
I think people are speculating, something you are also doing in regards to Harbaugh. The only difference is people are starting every post with "I don't actually know, but...". People can speculate that might be a negative in regard to Bosch and in your case it might be a negative in regard to Harbaugh. The sensitivity of people these days, my god.
January 6th, 2015 at 4:12 PM ^
to suggest that Harbaugh is not treating the kid unfairly. First, Bosch left on his own last year. Second, there were reports he left because he was unhappy about playing time. Third, this reports said that Harbaugh said he could stay if he met certain conditions. Fourth, it was Bosch's choice to transfer. Fifth, he is a highly rated kid at a position of need. Sixth, we will have trouble filling out the roster in this recruiting class in any event.
All those things point in favor of Bosch choosing to leave on his own and away from Harbaugh ditching the kid in favor of another recruit (ala Saban).
January 6th, 2015 at 3:39 PM ^
January 6th, 2015 at 2:30 PM ^
has some personal challenges that are not conducive to him being a productive member of the football team. It's impossible to judge without knowing the details, but this sounds and smells like something that's best for both sides. It's too bad when a good recruit doesn't pan out, but Harbaugh is going to HARBAUGH without Kyle Bosch just fine.
January 6th, 2015 at 3:21 PM ^
January 6th, 2015 at 2:31 PM ^
Wonder who else might request a transfer before it's over.
January 6th, 2015 at 2:34 PM ^
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January 6th, 2015 at 2:58 PM ^
"Those who stay...." thing came from.