Level headed thoughts on a lop - sided result.

Submitted by MichiganMan14 on
Well, a long plane ride from Tampa with a kamikaze connector flight from Detroit to South Bend...... $250 in game tix and one shit hotel in Elkhart, Indiana later....here we go. We are still not ready for big time football here at Michigan. Our program is still behind th. Onation's elite. A few years ago in the Bama game I envisioned us being ready by 2014. That vision was dashed tonight. We are at somewhat of a fork in the road here now. Do we ride this out with Hoke and maybe demand a few staff changes? Or do we start again from scratch and lose our footing in recruiting? Neither option is ideal to be honest but we must figure out which one helps our program achieve our goal of being a national power quicker. Let's look at a few takeaways from tonight. The Good Funchess is a boss and could be a force all year long. We actually played decent on defense when you look at the yardage. We gave up under 300 yards. We could not get ND off of the field in key situations and the 2 scores in the last 5 minutes of the 1st half killed us. I thought the Dline held their own and we only gave up 55 yards or so on the ground. If our offense could finish drives....this would have been a defensive performance that we could have competed with. The Bad. Devin Gardner with the bone head turnovers again. At some point it simply has to stop and he has to be accountable. He held onto the football in several occasions that resulted into sacks. His reads are not where they need to be and he plays the postion too dangerously to be reliable. His ceiling is high...but his floor is low. He skirts the floor too often. Our run game was predictable and vanilla along with our play calling in general. Coach Hoke electing to attempt those 1st quarter field goals killed momentum and sent the mmessage that we were here to "hang in there" and not to "Win the game". Coach Kelly went for his 4th and short and got it...which in turn swung the momentum. We still do not have a decided #2 receiver. Somebody needs to step up. We also need a change of pace back more infused into the offense. Our backs are not elite athletically and that hurts us especially with an average Oline. Coach Kelly blew Coach Hoke out of the water tonight and it's beginning to feel like 201 may be as good as it gets under Hoke. I hope that I'm wrong but it's hard to fight that feeling. Solutions. We need to give Shane more playing time. He needs to be ready for 2015 simple and plain. We also need to officially address our OLine. If Funk cannot get kids ready to go in 2 years. ..he is not the man for this job. Other Oline coaches can get kids ready....especially kids as talented as ours. Coach Hoke is now 4-7 against rivals in 3 and 1/3 seasons. We have to ask ourselves if this is good enough. To me it is not. I don't think that now is the time to call for Brady ' s head and there is a chance that we turn it around and challenge in the B1G, as it is seemingly the undisputed worst conference of the power 5. We need to play our best talent and stop accepting this mediocrity of the past 7/8 seasons. No powerhouse should be down as long as we have....so what gives? Thoughts?
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wbpbrian

September 7th, 2014 at 9:04 AM ^

he never is moving his head and anticipating someone is open. He only throws the ball if he sees somebody open. I believe he has trouble identifing where players are at on the field.

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VintageBlue

September 7th, 2014 at 9:22 AM ^

The guy has all the physical tools obviously but it seems that if the first option isn't there it almost always ends in ruin or, at best, a lost play. The offense goes against lesser teams due to sheer talent overall but boy is the contrast stark when facing tougher teams. I know flimsy explanations for things tend to focus on the intangible but there's an "it" successful QBs have and sadly DG lacks it despite his toughness, his commitment to staying and his qualities as all around great dude.

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Mannix

September 7th, 2014 at 11:21 AM ^

I would partially disagree. He made three throws in which he looked off a safety in one direction and threw to the other side, the last of which went right into a ND CB. Clearly, he's being taught to move the coverage, to some degree. Perhaps his problem is his pre-snap reading.

On a lack of details note, Chesson ran a stop route early in the game, drifted toward the CB instead of coming back to ball & it was broken up. If he comes back to ball, it's a 1st dn. instead, they punted or Wile shanked a kick (can't remember).


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wbpbrian

September 7th, 2014 at 12:38 PM ^

but to many times he got happy feet and stopped looking down feild . He just struggles with identfying the defense. I believe too many times he abandons the play where I saw Chesson are Darboh gain a step on their defenders (DB may be baiting him so I don't know if it would be a good decision to throw), but they were second or third targets and he felt he did not get enough time to throw. I felt for how young our O-line is they did an okay job of blocking the main four but, ND blitzed more than the amount of blockers we had. 

Joined: 01/23/2014

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MGoStrength

September 7th, 2014 at 12:24 PM ^

I agree he's not as good at reading defenses and looking off DBs and getting rid of the ball as we would like.  I do want to give him some understanding that he hasn't had a QB coach until this season, so I'm still hopeful he can develop some over the course of the season.  I'm also hopeful Nuss is a little more skilled at developing him and playing to his strengths than Borges was.  But, this is a cautious hope...time will tell.  Ultimately I'm not sure we're gonna win many games when we have to throw all the time and we're behind by 3 scores, given the o-line inexperience.  That sorta is what it is.  Some stats like time of poss, pass yards, rush yards, total yards were really similar...some like TOs, 3rd down off/def were not.  So, we're getting closer, but the execution when it counts is still way off.  We don't pressure well nor handle it well yet.  I'm not all too worried about an early loss out of conference if that means this prepares us for PSU/MSU in Oct. and the team is pressured to develop.

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Leonhall

September 7th, 2014 at 9:05 AM ^

I take from this is that Hoke isn't the guy for this job, it is so clear, he just doesn't have it, he's a MAC coach, that being said, I don't know if that is going to change. I said it a year ago I thought John Harbaugh would be the coach come this January, we'll see, I know he just extended, not sure what it would take to get him. Now, I think it is time to get Shane more snaps and put Gardner back at receiver, I just don't think Devin is a qb, he makes too many mistakes, he looks good sometimes but horrible on others. I love the kid, he is a warrior but he isn't playing like a 5th year senior, nor has the poise, to me he looks skittish and doesn't trust his line, which honestly, who can blame him, but this costs him a lot. Get Shane in there if he indeed is the #2, I don't know if he'll be a ton better, but get him experience.

Next, I would get Freddie Canteen out there. The kid looked good in the spring, and with the defense not feeling threatened by a deep threat. Canteen could change that. I would also continue to give Smith more carries than Green, I always thought Green was better, but Smith is able to get 2-4 yards more consistently. I also think Drake Johnson should get more carries.

Defensively, I bet Jake Ryan grades out better this week, but he looks somewhat lost at MLB. I think we should put him back to his original position and move him around accordingly when we play teams that spread us out. I would like to see Gedeon get more PT, I thought he looked good late last season. As far as DB's go, Countess has not looked the part since his freshman season, I can't understand why he was given #2??? I think at most he is a nickel back, and unless Peppers is hurt badly, move him where Blake currently is.

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An Angelo's Addict

September 7th, 2014 at 9:17 AM ^

Our program doesn't look behind the nation's elite, it looks behind the nation's mediocre teams at this point. Well we aren't going to be able to compete because all of our youth! Oh Notre Dame played 19 true freshman last night? Nvm. At this point it seems blatantly obvious that Hoke is way out of his league and I understand people worried that if he gets fired we will lose high lvl recruits etc. But what's the point in getting those recruits when this is how they all turn out?? Our teams under hoke have always looked weaker, slower, and less athletic than the "big boys" and we have recruited at the same level as them

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Njia

September 7th, 2014 at 9:20 AM ^

I couldn't get worked up about this game or its outcome. On Friday night, the plane in which I was flying came within a few hundred yards of becoming the lead story on the late local news in Toronto (we had tried landing in the severe thunderstorms that were rolling through Michigan and southern Ontario).

Needless to say, while I would have preferred to be home Friday night, I was thankful that the plane made it back to Montreal - from whence we came - rather than getting Randy Savage'd into Toronto Harbor (we were attemping a landing at Billy Bishop).

So, I got some first-hand perspective on life that made the game not terribly important to me. Would have been great if we'd won, but I probably would have been just as philosophical about it.

What will Brandon do next? What will Hoke do? I'm only mildly interested. For now, I know what I'll be praying while I'm on my knees at Mass this morning.

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MGoStrength

September 7th, 2014 at 9:43 AM ^

I'm not gonna call for anyone's head, although I do think Funk should have been replaced last season.  But, I'm not calling out Hoke yet.  I know our record against our rivals, our record on the road, etc. are not where we want them to be.  But, it's early in the season and no season is decided by one game.  And, IMO the excuses still resonate, youth, the inexperienced o-line, etc.  My biggest problem is that I think the coaches run a culture of playing the best practice players and not the best game players.  There is a difference between practice and games and more talented players tend to play better in games than in practice because there is more on the line to motivate them.  So, two guys make look similar in practice, but completely different in games.  I know we want to reinforce hard work and practicing hard, which is important, but I don't think it should be priortized ahead of game performances, which is the point of why we practice in the first place.  We have guys like Pipkins, Wormley, and Kalis sitting on the bench over guys like R. Glasgow, Godin, and Miller.  I'm sorry, but I don't get that.  I also never saw Ross or RJS all game.  Seriously?  IDK maybe that was due to formations ND was running, but all game?  The most talented players have to be on the field.  And, you know what...Beyer may be a solid player, but I'd rather see Taco getting at least as many snaps to develop. 

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alum96

September 7th, 2014 at 10:02 AM ^

The denial is strong on this thread.

I am shocked by some of the "its one game" comments when you have a litany now over 3+ years of similar games.  We have one of the top 5 coaches in basketball so you have a template for excellence and I am still seeing people explain away everything.  It was a joke folks.  Name me one impact player on the defense.  The defense is not "young" - it has young DTs and 1 S - otherwise it is experienced.  It got steamrolled - it had no answers.  Yes we had injuries so did ND. (and suspensions)  Name me anyone on offense not named Chesson or Funchess who you saw good things from. 

I am blown away people think ND is a playoff team.  So Brian Kelly took the team to the NC game 2 years ago and now with 19 FR and RS FR has a "playoff" team out there with 6 guys hurt or suspended?  If you believe that you should be VERY scared of Brian Kelly the next 10 years.  And you should be asking why $4M+ can't get you similar results from Hoke.

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MGoStrength

September 7th, 2014 at 12:36 PM ^

UM beat a better ND team last year and had a pretty disapointing year.  I can't see this year's team being worse than last year's.  I'll give you it was a bad game and reinforced many of our fears...poor play on the road, poor o-line play, poor pass rush, poor decisions by Gardner, no down field threat, etc.  But, the next 4 games are not against great opponents.  If they take care of business against the teams they should beat (everyone minus the ranked teams...ND, MSU, OSU) it may be frustrating to lose to all 3 rivals, but it would still be a successful season at 9-3 and I see no reason why that can't happen.  Do that and head into next year with an upperclassman defense at almost all positions, upperclassman o-line for once, and a upperclassman Morris, Green/Smith at RB, etc. sounds optimistic to me.  Now, if we're still having the same discussion at that point, then OK, but right now there is still optimism going forward IMO.

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SHub'68

September 7th, 2014 at 4:30 PM ^

That it appears our offense is not the type that can be geared to defeat an opponent who is better than us.  What Borges did (sometimes) allowed for that to happen.  Rich Rod, too.

What I saw last night looked like what Alabama does, except we aren't them.  Alabama can pave over the other team in most cases and force them to collapse on the run to open up the field.  This is what Brady Hoke wants us to be.  Except Michigan does not have the offensive line to do this.  I kinda sorta expected some of this.  What I did not expect is that, apparently, when we can't run over someone nothing else works, either (this part worries me).

Maybe we simply have to beat our heads against the wall while our players grow and learn zone blocking.  Maybe it'll take all of this season to do that.  Sam Webb was saying that on WTKA over the past few weeks, but I think rolling over App State blinded us all.  Silly us.

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JBLPSYCHED

September 7th, 2014 at 10:03 AM ^

Last year it became clear that coaching is a problem--there was no other way to explain the constant attempt to run between the tackles despite terrible results. Now we have a new offensive coordinator who is more flexible and less stubborn than Borges. It looked better last week against an inferior opponent but last night was a disaster. It's only one game and counts as only one loss but we continue to insist on running on key first and second downs when it's not working. Don't tell me the yards per carry or total number of rushing yards improved. Those runs that are entirely predictable and lead to 2nd and long or 3rd and long are drive/momentum killers. Our supposed good to great recruits do not appear to be developing as the Hoke years go by. If this loss is indicative of how the season goes--ie. clearly being outcoached and outperformed in big games--it's time to blow the thing up and hire a new head coach. Yes it will cost us 2-3 more years in limbo but if we cannot compete with ND, MSU, OSU, etc then sticking with Hoke and expecting different results fits the definition of insanity.

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MGoStrength

September 7th, 2014 at 12:41 PM ^

We had a previouisly successful coach in RR, he's got Zona ranked, but he couldn't get it done at UM with considerably more resources.  Now, Hoke's struggling with the same considerable resources.  Mattison & Nuss are 2 well recognized coaches with some of the highest assistant salaries in the country.  I find it hard to beleive that it's always the coaches fault.  This is a question I can't say I know the answer to with all certainty, but maybe it's us fans putting soo much pressure and scrutiny on everyone and not allowing the learning/growth process to occur.  Why have so many proven coaches failed here in the past ten years?  They are successful elsewhere with less.

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Maize and Blue…

September 7th, 2014 at 1:36 PM ^

that they have given Hoke.  Mattison makes close to twice as much as RR's O and D coordinator combined.  We have one of the highest paid staffs in the country and get very little from it. 

RR didn't stand a chance here because he wasn't accepted,  I'm pretty sure he is having a good laugh now that his Arizona team has a better record than Hoke's since he has been there plus two bowl wins.  One of those with a QB that had to redshirt at the JC level and did not have a single scholarship offer coming out of HS.

I start a new job in a couple weeks and was upset that my schedule was Friday thru Monday, but after last night I think it might be a good thing for this season.

 

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You Only Live Twice

September 7th, 2014 at 10:32 AM ^

Too early to write off the recruits that we have.  And, make no mistake, Gardner is an elite QB. From most of the analysis/comments, it seems that DG tends to focus on one receiver, so that is a specific area he could work on, but there's no way he can be blamed at this stage when the O line still hasn't gotten to where it should be.

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BlueinLansing

September 7th, 2014 at 11:03 AM ^

3-7 in our last 10 games

 

with wins over Indiana where we gave up 47 points, a complete miracle win over Northwestern where we were badly outplayed for 4 quarters, and Appalachian State.

 

There is no silver lining, positive look to the future bullshit.  This program is in shambles and a LONG, LONG way from being anything resembling a national power.  We might not even finish in the top half of our crappy BIG division.

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MGoChippewa

September 7th, 2014 at 11:55 AM ^

regarding Brady Hoke after the MSU game.  As of right now, I don't have much hope that he can get this team to more than 8 wins.  I like the guy, he's alright, but the Michigan football I enjoy isn't just alright, we all need more.  Last night was embarrassing.

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Bones032

September 7th, 2014 at 1:02 PM ^

During the game, I kept saying to myself that this is a humbling game for the team and fans. But then I thought, we are unranked, coming off a dissapointing year, did we really need to be humbled that much? Probably not.

So today I dismissed that thought, and looked for a different silver lining.

Maybe having this happen early in the season, showed our team and coaches that certain things are not going to work later in the year when we play more quality teams.

Maybe Mattison can see that the press coverage almost every play is not going to work against an offense with a pulse. It might force him to work in some more zone throughout the game, to keep the offense more uncertain.

Maybe it will show Nuss, any decent defense is going to bring heavy pressure on Gardner since he and the line have stuggled with it so mightily the last couple years. So work in some different types of runs and crossing routes and screens to ease the pressue.

We have a couple weeks against lesser teams, and maybe the coaches will use those weeks to work out ways to beat the the things good teams do to us. So when the harder teams on the schedule arrive, we have worked out some of our deficiencies.

That's the best I can do for silver lining.

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