OT: What is going on with Verlander?

What's weird is the Nationals pitchers as a whole haven't walked a guy for ages.  Just thought I'd throw that out there.  Hottest team in MLB.

He is just not as good as he used to be. He no longer has a dominant fastball that makes all of his other pitches that much better. 

He used to be able to hit 95 with ease, and he'd reach back for 98-99. Now he throws 91-92 and has to reach way back for 95. 

It seems like that loss of velocity has caused him to overcompensate (i.e. he's throwing too hard too often) and so his control has suffered as a result.

He's just not the same guy. He peaked from 2009 to 2012. He's 31 now, and just doesn't have the same stuff. His fastest pitch so far this season was 97mph. He used to hit at least that multiple times a game.

To break it down...first column is the percentage of Verlander's fastballs that hit 95mph or higher, and the second column is 98mph or higher

2009 - 43% - 8%

2010 - 35% - 5%

2011 - 27% - 5%

2012 - 21% - 4%

2013 - 14% - 1%

2014 - 5% - 0%

So yeah, we're talking about a dude who used to basically throw 95mph or higher every other fastball with 98mph or higher in his bag of tricks, being reduced to a guy who has no hope of hitting 98, and at this point, can barely even reach back for 95. 

In short, unless Verlander can find a way to become a finesse pitcher with high control, his goose is cooked and the Tigers are going to be saddled with one of the worst contracts in baseball for the next 7 years.

A lot of it is confidence in my opinion. It seems as if our starters enter the later innings more fatigued then usual because they are working harder to keep the game manageable... A lot of this lies on the offense and their inconsistency. There is no excuse for our lack of offensive efficiency because we are one of the best offensive teams in the majors. Not to mention that MLB teams are lucky to have two guys that pitch around 3.40 ERAs. We are lucky enough to have 3-4, yet we can't muster up 5 runs against aging pitchers like Danks. Don't get me wrong, the pitching is annoying, but our inability to get runs after we've driven in those first few runs is despicable. You can't be expected to score just once or twice in baseball... These guys need to stop looking at who is pitching and remember that their job is to hit on a nightly basis.

Bullpen is another story that needs to be completely redesigned. Would it plausible to get a solid bullpen arm and a 3-4 starter in the rotation in return for Verlander?

Got paid, and Kate.

Loss of velocity and inability to throw fastball for strikes consistently (seems like it's always 2-0 on every hitter). I certainly wish we still had Fister, but DD values hard throwers more than pitchers.

to stand up at a game, wearing a white dress & hat, and catch Verlander's attention.

 

 

 

/Roy Hobbsd

I have a stinking feeling that Verlander used PED's. I hate myself for even thinking that, but he doesn't throw nearly as hard as he used to and isn't the same pitcher over all. I know he's older, but he's not that much older. .

out his fastball but the reality is hitters are teeing off on his breaking pitches, which don't seem to have the bite or control they once had.  Either he's tipping his pitches or just isn't getting the same ball movement he once did.

 

We as fans are also spoiled rotten by his two or three year dominance.

Verlander had core surgery, and a lot of people think it takes a full year to completely recover (that is what I have read, not what I independently know).  There was an article a while ago that included videos that showed him pitching in the first few innings and after 90 pitches.  It showed (and even I could see it) that he was not bringing his right shoulder through after ninety pitches the same way that he was earlier in the game and how that affected his control/command.  Give him time.  He will improve as he more fully recovers.

In my opinion, Verlander is on cruise control. He was last regular season as well. He was good in the playoffs last year and I have no doubt that he will ratchet it up for this post season. Verlander was the face of the Tigers for quite a while and carried the team. I think he realizes that he now has decent starters around him and doesn't have to go all out, all the time anymore.

I read somewhere that Verlander has thrown like 1,000 more pitches over the last five seasons than anyone else in baseball; Scherzer is fourth on that list as well.  I know Justin likes to think of himself as an indesctrucible warrior, but that kind of workload is going to catch up to you eventually.  

But he has had sub-par seasons before and bounced back.  He might just need some time and a lower pitch count.

I think his stamina is going downhill fast, I think it really starts from there. It seems like he's alternating between trying to take a little bit off pitches to be economical and, like last night, pitching hard but running out of steam early (He actually pitched a decent game up until the 6th). His mechanics kinda seem out of sync too, maybe that's a result of pitching at different intensities all the time. A lot of pitches were obvious balls before they even left his hand because of how off balance he was, his body seemed to be ahead of his arm and vice versa a lot. He also doesn't seem to have his full repertoire of pitches to keep people off balance.

he had core surgery in the off-season to fix a problem he had last season, probably affected something I would imagine. Miggy had the same kinda thing and also started out slow but he plays every day so hes worked it out by now. JV only gets a start every 5 days or so and getting smoked probably doesnt help his confidence. Giving up 3+ runs every game isnt the same as a hitting slump, gotta be at least part mental.

he will be fine eventually.  He still has good velocity.  Right now it is his control and stamina that are bad.

It might take a while and it might not even come fully back this year, but I think we will see vintage JV again.  He is still hitting 97 on the gun, which is plenty fast to be dominant.  He just has to get his location back.

He's racked up more innings and pitches than anyone in baseball over the last few years. Unfortunately, if that's true, it's unlikely to come back. Johan Santana, CC Sabathia and Roy Halladay were all pitchers with dominant runs as a staff workhorse who basically woke up one day and had nothing left - injuries and workload took their toll. This, by the way, is yet another example of why long term contracts for a pitcher are about like betting on a hard eight (e.g. a crapshoot). As far as the Tigers other issues, the bats look good - Cabrera is rounding into form, VMart is killing the ball, Hunter is ageless, and AJax while cooling off is still decent. Avila still is ok at the plate as well, and Suarez is an improvement of the Vortex of Suck we had before. The bullpen, well. There's a reason you don't bother to sign free agent relievers to anything but extra cheap contracts - pitchers are volatile, and relievers are sweating dynamite even when they don't have age and elbow issues in their past. Basically, if it's not Mariano Rivera, don't bother.