Do you care whether DB forced Coach Hoke to fire Al Borges?
Stephen Nesbitt, who apparently spent two years covering the football team, said on Twitter yesterday that he had to believe that DB forced Coach Hoke to fire Al Borges. Chantel Jennings chimed in that she agreed. Kyle Bogenschutz said that he agreed as well and that, if they were right, this would mean a "major problem" and "far greater issues than anyone knows" for Michigan.
With all respect to Kyle Bogenschutz, I don't see a problem if their take is correct. You would of course ideally like everyone to always be on the same page, but I don't see a big issue with DB essentially saying, "Coach, I know you love Al, and I know you believe in him, but as your boss I have to step in here and tell you that we need to make a change." That's the AD's role at some level, like it's the HC's role to tell, say, his receiver's coach that something needs to change.
Am I missing something? What is the argument for the other side? I don't know any of the people I listed above or have a Twitter account, so I couldn't ask Mr. Bogenschutz to explain.
EDIT: Yeoman asks a good question. Nesbitt's reason for believing Coach Hoke was forced seemed to be - and I hope I'm not putting words in his mouth - that Coach Hoke and Coach Borges were too close for Coach Hoke to have willingly done this.
EDIT No. 2: evenyoubrutus informs us that Sam Webb said he has a gut feeling that this was Coach Hoke's call. FWIW, this puts me solidly into the camp that thinks it was Coach Hoke's decision. Sam has a remarkably accurate gut.
January 9th, 2014 at 5:29 PM ^
If I knew why they were so sure it was Brandon's call I might understand why they think it's a problem.
January 9th, 2014 at 5:32 PM ^
I would prefer it was Hoke's call. That's not the same as wishing it hadn't happened.
January 9th, 2014 at 6:14 PM ^
I agree with those who see Brandon's hand in this. BH and Al Borges have worked together for some time- if Hoke didn't really want him he could have left SDSU w/o him. As it is, BH saw Borges up close at SDSU and liked it enough to brng him. Its not like Al fooled BH or radically changed how he did things while here. Plus- the first years offense with denard was pretty productive. I think Hoke really did see this year's problems as a youth issue. I do not think Hoke has the ability to stand up to Brandon though- DB is the dominant personality in the relationship. That may be ultimately why DB wanted BH to begin with- a back door into DB running the team.
January 9th, 2014 at 7:59 PM ^
I don't know that, when a superior official in an organization gives a directive to his inferior, I would necessarily characterize that as a "personality" issue. That's just the fundamental nature of employer/employee relations and corporate hierarchical structure playing out as it's designed to.
January 9th, 2014 at 6:54 PM ^
I am definitely glad Borges got fired and that the replacement appears to be a significant upgrade. I am extremely concerned if this is a Brandon PR move to excite the season ticketholders and donors in time for the 1/31 PSD renewal deadline. If Hoke didn't believe shit needed to change without Brandon's help, I am extremely concerned whether or not he is capable of leading this program back to the top of the Big Ten and national relevancy.
January 9th, 2014 at 7:49 PM ^
January 9th, 2014 at 11:18 PM ^
watch game films with other coaches besides the football team?
January 9th, 2014 at 5:31 PM ^
It could cause problems between the staff if they carry a grudge about it.
January 9th, 2014 at 5:52 PM ^
January 9th, 2014 at 7:17 PM ^
but only after laying out a really convincing case for the upgrade. "This is Michigan, fergodsakes, and multiple negative or nominal rushing games is not acceptable. The program is bigger than either of us, and we have to produce. Or else we'll be gone.
"Do you really think that we can't find someone better for over $1M per year? Because we HAVE to do better."
January 9th, 2014 at 5:33 PM ^
The idea that Brandon forced Hoke to fire Borges is an oft-repeated theory, but why do people think this? Are there any "sources" making this claim or is it pure speculation?
January 9th, 2014 at 5:36 PM ^
Probably because when asked, Hoke said he had no plans to change his staff. This could have been Fort Schembechler, or it could point that it was DB's plan to change the staff. We can't know for sure...
January 9th, 2014 at 5:45 PM ^
That's not quite what he said. And even if it were, plans can change. Nussmeier wasn't thought to be available when that question was asked.
People read extra words into Hoke's statements, then when the extra unsaid words turn out not to accurately reflect Hoke's actual thoughts, they blame Hoke.
January 9th, 2014 at 5:51 PM ^
I tend to think either (a) that was Fort Schembechler talking or (b) that Hoke wasn't planning on getting rid of Borges until he got word that Nussmeier was looking around. After the Ohio State game, you could have made an argument for keeping Borges and that replacing him with anything but a home run hire would have been a risky move. Well, Nussmeier is clearly a home run hire, and there are plenty of indications that he left Alabama because he and Saban didn't exactly see eye-to-eye.
Keep in mind that Hoke epitomizes the Fort Schembechler mentality perhaps even more than Schembechler himself did. His comments about the staff were in response to a direct question, and he couldn't very well say, "Well, we're planning on replacing Al, but we haven't found the right guy yet." If he had been vague about it, it might have affected recruiting. It's a tricky question to field.
January 9th, 2014 at 7:48 PM ^
He said "I anticipate the same staff coming back." I always thought that word - "anticipate" - left a lot of possibilities open. He didn't firmly commit to anything.
January 10th, 2014 at 6:06 AM ^
Brady has been vague at times but very honest. He may have had no plans feeling that Al could do the job and he still may feel that way. If DB came to him and said that he felt he could get Nussmeier and asked what Hoke thought, he may have said it would be an upgrade.
I have no plans doesn't mean he never will. The rest is conjecture for those who want to portray Hoke as a buffoon and stooge. I have seen no solid evidence this DB forced the issue.
January 9th, 2014 at 5:38 PM ^
Speculation because some people think Hoke is a mindless idiot for some reason.
January 9th, 2014 at 6:06 PM ^
My opinion: DB was the inspiration or even forced it.
Why? I think we can assume Hoke liked Borges and thought he was the man for the job. Michigan is Hoke's dream job, why would he jeopardize that by hiring unsatisfactory employees? He had no issue with getting GMat as DC - so if he thought there was a superior candidate for the OC job, my guess is he would have gone after him originally.
January 9th, 2014 at 5:33 PM ^
If DB did force Hoke to push Borges out the door, would he please also do the same for Funk?
January 9th, 2014 at 6:30 PM ^
Nussmeier, considering the amount of $$$ being paid to him, would probably want to have a chance to evaluate the offensive position coaches. DB also would rather have the new guy do the dirty work for him. Funk, Jackson, and Ferrigno will probably need to keep their CV's updated.
January 9th, 2014 at 7:40 PM ^
January 9th, 2014 at 7:42 PM ^
January 9th, 2014 at 9:54 PM ^
Why is that, nappa18? I tend to think the head of the organization, which is what DB is, should be at something like the announcement of a major new hire. One that DB would have had to approve. If anything he should make the announcement, pass the mike to Hoke to make some comments and then to pass it off to Nussmeier...that's the chain of command. Unless you're OSU where the AD is the puppet and the HC is the one calling all the shots.
January 9th, 2014 at 7:38 PM ^
January 9th, 2014 at 5:34 PM ^
It could mean either that that Brady Hoke isn't in control of his own football team and staff, or that he can't separate what's best for the program (potentially firing Borges) from loyalty (keeping Borges). Either of those wouldn't necessarily be tremendous qualities.
January 9th, 2014 at 5:34 PM ^
I'm not sure I necessarily care, however infighting is never a good thing in a program.
If Hoke and Nussmeyer don't see eye to eye and battle it out over every little issue/gripe, it could trickle down and effect the morale of the whole program. Hard to quantify these types of things, but it wouldnt be good.
I have a feeling both will come together on their desire to achieve wins for the Michigan football program and this wont be a problem. But, football coaches are not immune to this type of drama/politics.
January 9th, 2014 at 5:34 PM ^
January 9th, 2014 at 5:34 PM ^
I don't think Hoke's the kind of guy to carry a grudge.
January 9th, 2014 at 6:01 PM ^
Why won't he wear red again?
January 9th, 2014 at 5:34 PM ^
January 9th, 2014 at 5:41 PM ^
1. It was Hoke's decision.
2. Brandon forced the issue.
3. Brandon and Hoke sat down, discussed things, came to a mutual agreement. It doesn't much matter whose idea it was originally or even if it sort of evolved on its own out of the discussion, the point would be that it was a mutual, uncoerced decision.
#2 is the only one that would be a sign of a problem and there doesn't seem to be any evidence that this is what happened. I'm not sure whether these not-quite-insiders that think it's what happened really think that, or if they include #3 in the category of "Brandon forcing Hoke to do it."
January 9th, 2014 at 6:45 PM ^
Further, I believe 3 is the most likely possibility. Brandon is clearly a hands-on AD, so he is likely to get involved in detailed decisions. I can see Brandon getting into a lot of specifics with coaches when sitting down with them during evaluations, especially to identify actions that need to be taken to improve the program. At the same time, Brandon comes from a franchise corporate background where a lot of big decisions are made by consensus building. So, it's a natural assumption that he and Hoke came to a mutual decision to replace Borges. Or at the very least, Brandon gave Hoke a lot of input and things to consider, and the Coach made the final call. Either way, it was the right decision and I'm fine with it. I just don't see Brandon ramming this course of action through.
January 9th, 2014 at 8:21 PM ^
January 9th, 2014 at 8:55 PM ^
Or sort of under #3, because Hoke would then need Brandon's signoff on the paycheck. But that wouldn't have been a hard sell at all, I suspect.
I don't know who reached out to whom, or how, but I'm pretty confident that you're right that Nussheimer's availability was the trigger for this. The available set of high-level OCs that run a pro-style offense of the sort Hoke is pointing towards is small. The subset that's available for a lateral move is vanishingly small, usually zero.
January 9th, 2014 at 6:16 PM ^
How long are you going to stick with that profile picture?
January 9th, 2014 at 7:45 PM ^
January 9th, 2014 at 5:35 PM ^
January 9th, 2014 at 5:40 PM ^
January 9th, 2014 at 6:00 PM ^
it could have just easily been Nussmeir thinking hmmm what major colleges had offenses that sucked last year? Let me give Michigan a call
January 9th, 2014 at 6:48 PM ^
I can't tell.
January 10th, 2014 at 1:13 AM ^
i'm watching a Duke classic, Red River.
January 9th, 2014 at 5:35 PM ^
January 9th, 2014 at 5:36 PM ^
Because they're close Hoke can't fire him? He's too sentimental to fire his good friend? That's not the Brady Hoke I think I know or the one Dave Brandon knows, either. Yes he likes to be nice but he knows his ultimate job is to win football games. Hoke wouldn't fire Borges because they're too close, even with his own job potentially at stake? He would give up being the head football coach at Michigan, his stated dream, to save one fellow coach, until he was forced by the AD to fire him? I call BS
January 9th, 2014 at 9:01 PM ^
January 10th, 2014 at 10:31 AM ^
Then, since he has integrity, he would not fire him to save his job. Which is admirable but presents a different problem...
January 9th, 2014 at 5:39 PM ^
I actually have some optimism know for the 2014 season... Before yesterday I had none. Hoke is not an offensive mind and would not have made the move unless it got even more excessive than this season. However, Hoke still needs to show me that he can handle games before he has my complete support. I still have many doubts about his game management tactics, the defensive line (which he specializes in), and just his ability to "fire up players."
To answer the question though, I don't care because I was ready to throw the 2014 season before the hire.
January 9th, 2014 at 5:36 PM ^
revivals.
January 9th, 2014 at 5:38 PM ^
January 9th, 2014 at 5:45 PM ^
of an OL that is now getting into upperclassmen terriitory and a QB that now has one full season under his belt.
Not that he is not an improvement and a great get. Just think you would have seen improvement under Broges also.
This move should make us even better.