Should we play Sparty in the last game of the year instead?
I am sure this will be violently unpopular with many, but I can't but think we need to come to grips with the fact that playing Ohio State in the last weekend of the year is hurting our program more than helping it. Getting our pants pulled down in front of the whole country during Thanksgiving weekend is no fun, and having that linger into the "postseason" casts a black cloud over the bowl game where we often seem to get de-pantsed again. This can't be helping with recruiting.
What if we moved the OSU game to earlier in the year and moved the Michigan State game to the last weekend? To be honest, I feel they are our true rival now that we can't compete with the OSU machine. I bet MSU would be on-board as they are stuck playing Maryland in front of an empty stadium, no matter how crappy a season they are having their stadium would be filled for the UM game.
Having the OSU game earlier in the year would make the inevitable throttling less painful since we won't have to stew on it for months and maybe we'd even beat them now and then like how Texas sometimes beats Oklahoma. Having the MSU game as the final game would only enhance that rivalry for both sides.
I know that many would view this action as surrender, but lets be realistic: We can't keep doing this and there is no end in sight. For the health of our program I think this might not be a bad idea.
Any thoughts?
December 1st, 2019 at 9:20 AM ^
Suggested this yesterday. Have them play PSU as the last game of the year and us play MSU.
Michigan always loses to someone early on anyway (Bc teams like Wisconsin and ND have such a HUGE talent gap relative to us on years we play them on the road apparently) so it might as well be the Buckeyes.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:30 AM ^
You and op are both total dbags. Stfu and go kick rocks.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:32 AM ^
Thanks for that.
December 1st, 2019 at 10:20 AM ^
Wow MK...
December 1st, 2019 at 9:27 AM ^
No. But the schedule does need to change. The Game should be the same day as the Red River Shootout (Showdown or whatever they call it from year to year) I believe that is the second Saturday of October. We should play Sparty the first Saturday of November. The last game of the year should ALWAYS be on the road. Alternate between Rutger and Maryland.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:51 AM ^
The last week of the season is for rivalry games. If not OSU, OK (at one time we played Chicago, then Minnesota, in that spot). But it's got to be an actual rival, not a tomato can like Rutgers or Maryland.
One change I definitely want to see is to move the last game before Thanksgiving. It's not fair to students to have the game two days after the holiday.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:55 AM ^
MSU/Maryland. Penn State/Rutger. OK
You obviously haven't been paying attention, this is no longer a rivalry. Next year it should be relegated to BTN.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:59 AM ^
MSU and PSU fans aren't happy with that arrangement. They used to play each other, and I'm not sure why the Big Ten broke that up.
I'm not saying that we have to play OSU at the end, but it should be a rivalry game that week of the season. If not them, then MSU or maybe PSU.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:28 AM ^
Playing OSU earlier in the season won't make a difference IMO. Look how inept Sea and the whole offense looked in Sept and half of October. That means we'd have lost 63-10 or something like that had we played OSU sometime in the first half of the season.
Only way we beat OSU is to have Heisman candidate players on the field. Only way to do that is to have a Top 3 recruiting class loaded with 5 star players plus assistant coaches who can develop that kind of talent. I don't it happening next year, especially playing in the Horseshoe.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:31 AM ^
I understand that it won't really help us beat them, but it will at least be healthier for the program in general. This annual evisceration in the last game of the year is dragging us down and probably hurting recruiting, which makes it even harder to get the kind of talent in here to turn it around.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:47 AM ^
It seems to me if this game is in the middle of the season, less OSU dirtbags will be at the game. There might actually be a functioning student section also, which would be nice.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:53 AM ^
The OSU fans coming out in droves is a new dynamic, something which I think started really happening once the game got pushed back to Thanksgiving weekend. I think a lot of UM fans probably sell their tickets and go out of town. Not as likely to happen on a mid-October weekend.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:57 AM ^
Thanksgiving weekend doesn't help (I'm definitely not happy it's has been moved then) but I think it's mainly that they are more confident about the game than us, for obvious reasons, so they are snatching up a lot of available tickets. We brought a lot of fans to Spartan Stadium in 2016 and '18 for the same reason.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:29 AM ^
I say blow up the rivalry, change divisions, and only play OSU once in a while. Its not a rivalry and no one can see if it ever will be again. Fuck it, I'm not too proud to say I'd rather duck OSU, hope they stumble somewhere and UM can slip into the BIG 10 champioship game from the opposite division. Because UM isn't going through OSU to get to Indy.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:35 AM ^
Agreed
December 1st, 2019 at 9:42 AM ^
This exactly. I loved the OSU rivalry. Best ever in sports IMHO. The 1997 version of the Game was my favorite sporting event ever.
But, it’s time to realize that the rivalry has become so one-sides that it’s almost defunct, and being in the same division as them has blocked us from the BIG Ten CG every year.
We need divisional realignment. something like:
DIV A: OSU, PSU, Min
DIV B: michigan, Wisco, Sparty
Fill in the rest with any combo that makes it close to even (none of the others really matter). In that scenario, we likely go to the championship game ever other year or more.
I hate ducking the rivalry as much as anyone, but we need to live in reality - playing OSU in the last game of the year and being in their division is killing our program.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:52 AM ^
The answer is pods. No divisions. each team has 3 rivals that are protected (for us that would still be OSU, MSU and Minnesota) Then you play 6 teams from the B1G, I think within 3 years you'll have played everyone at least twice. Top two teams play each other in the BTCG. Last year Michigan would have been in the CG vs OSU.
December 1st, 2019 at 10:24 AM ^
So losing to OSU two weeks in a row would be better?
December 1st, 2019 at 10:47 AM ^
Never said that. It would shut down the narrative of not going to the Championship Game. Not sure if you noticed, but it is one of the bullshit arguments made by the bullshit media against Harbaugh.
December 1st, 2019 at 10:23 AM ^
DIV A: OSU, PSU, Min
DIV B: michigan, Wisco, Sparty
Fill in the rest with any combo that makes it close to even (none of the others really matter)
You're showing Minnesota more respect than Iowa, which been a solid program for 40 years, while I doubt Minny will keep it up once Fleck leaves.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:34 AM ^
Michigan nor any other big ten team will beat them regularly. We are all acc losers to their Clemson. Time to shake it up as a conference instead of suffering individually.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:37 AM ^
I don’t really think it is our decision.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:45 AM ^
Well, that is what I was wondering. Who decides this? Does the B1G make the schedule with no input or can the schools themselves decide things like standing rivalry games? If Warde Manuel and whoever the hell the MSU AD is decide they want to play the last weekend in November can they do that?
Traditions die for a reason and I think the tradition of putting UM/OSU the last week of the season is bad for UM and bad for the B1G. A completely one-sided rivalry is no longer a rivalry worth reserving a date for.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:03 PM ^
Exactly. UM bent over and took it playing sparty in EL back to back years. Now they have to visit both EL and that shithole down south next season. If UM (warde) had as much power at OSU does in this conference things would be different. You can bank that wouldn’t happen to them
December 1st, 2019 at 9:40 AM ^
Sometimes the groove you're in gets so deep, it becomes a rut. I know it won't happen, but I vote for changing things up in some way, even just for a few years.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:43 AM ^
You might as well just swap to the Big Ten West, and then "earn" a Rivalry game every few years in the Championship game.
But the idea of elevating Sparty is just dumber than dumb. You want to keep Sparty low.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:44 AM ^
Was it over when the Norwegians bombed Phoenix
Listen, I did some digging and for all our program's foibles, from 1950 on we are still a viable tiop ten team in every major category. That is, until you go from 2000-present. Then we drop to about #19 (Stassen).
Problem was the RR and Hoke years. I'm no Harbaugh fan, but for all of yesterday's massacre--four little things stood out and allowed the floodgates to open: Dropped passes. The offsides on the punt (from what I remember, DPJ took a fair catch on about the UM40), Hassan Haskins missed a huge hole on the left which would have at least allowed him to gain 25 yards, and Bad Shea in the second half.
I honestly felt, for the first time that this game was not nearly as bad as it looked.
Not playing OSU last, or whatever else crap people are suggesting isn't gonna make anyone feel better. Might as well go to the MAC if that's the thing. Conceding that Michigan will never be as good is also stupid.
Right now Harbaugh's recruiting seems messy. Why no one from Ohio? Why are Michigan players going elsewhere? What happened to the way Mo and Lloyd could recruit? RR and Hoke got a lot of Ohio players and they worked out pretty well.
And as for the actual play--something has to change because it is a lot of little things that are adding up. But surrendering, particularly when no one is going to listen to these stupid message board questions and suggestions anyway is really dumb.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:51 AM ^
As much as I despise Dantonio he did make me take notice of MSU and realize what a pain in the ass their fans are. The State rivalry has no doubt been elevated the last 10 years because they became relevant. I don't mind admitting they are our closest rival now, both geographically and competitively. I hate losing to them more than losing to OSU because I have to deal with Spartans embedded in my family, at work, and social circles. The only OSU fan I know is the guy who cleans the toilets at work.
December 1st, 2019 at 2:33 PM ^
Piss off, RCMB troll.
December 2nd, 2019 at 7:21 PM ^
I agree with the Ohio comments and I think a big part of this has been Urban's all-out approach to killing Michigan. He played a big part in crushing Michigan's recruiting hopes in Ohio. It's made things much more difficult.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:48 AM ^
Wow. DB suggested this few years ago and everyone lost their collective minds. Now that the Savior is getting his brains beat in by OSU everyone thinks it’s a great idea. If everyone wants to duck OSU, just leave the BIG and make a public announcement you can’t compete with OSU anymore and then join the AAC or Conference USA. We will never win anything of note again and be the laughing stock of college football, but hey we’ll get to beat up on a bunch of bottom feeders and pound our chest about it.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:57 AM ^
The public capitulation would be embarrassing for a year or so, but getting trounced in the last game of the year for two decades in a row is worse.
December 1st, 2019 at 10:31 AM ^
Or just put it to a vote with the rest of the B1G; either they go or we do. There's no way in hell the Buckeyes would get more votes...right?
December 1st, 2019 at 9:54 AM ^
Running away from the problem is not going to solve anything for us folks. In the end, Michigan has to compete. If you concede to OSU, then we are conceding to LSU, Bama, Oklahoma, and everyone else that runs this offense. Their is a talent gap - yes. Sooner we accept it, the better decisions we can make on it. Need to recruit better. Period.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:10 AM ^
There are lots of ways to solve problems and we will never win in recruiting.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:55 AM ^
No. Stop making excuses. We need to get better.
Start by dropping the guy whose defense has given up consecutive historical highs to them. They won the national title in 2014 and didn’t do this to our 5-7 defense. It’s time to try something else because Brown is not working anymore.
December 1st, 2019 at 10:29 AM ^
WD is spot on here. While I somewhat agree with the OP about trying to balance out divisions and not needing to play OSU at the end of the year, what he is saying here is exactly right.
Don Brown has crapped the bed against OSU twice in a row. It’s an embarrassment. His defense has proven great at stopping most teams, but completely unable to stop - OR EVEN SLOW - teams with equal or greater talent. Some examples:
1. 2019 OSU
2. 2018 OSU
3. 2019 Wisco
4. 2017 PSU
And before anyone says 2019 ND, that game was played in the worst possible conditions for ND (a passing attack). I was there. Constant downpour and heavy wind. Not taking anything away from the win - we found a way to offense in that same weather - but one good D performance in terrible conditions does not overcome 2 years of what I listed above.
December 1st, 2019 at 10:33 AM ^
ND was a solid win over a top-10 team but it was a deviation from the norm against top-10 teams under Don.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:18 AM ^
You're kidding yourself if you think that there are any consistently better defensive coordinators in college football. Elite offenses beat elite defenses in college, period.
It's time to stop living in the 90s. Defense doesn't win championships. Stop thinking you can beat elite teams 24-10.
The 1997 team would lose just as badly to this years OSU.
Don Brown's goal was to:
(1) keeps Fields in the pocket, take away his first and second read, and force him to have to make tough throws down the field. Check.
(2) shut down outside runs by Dobbins and force him back inside. Check.
(3) for the love of God, don't give up any crossing routes. Check.
We got what wanted schematically and they still beat us. We were definitely hurt by not having any elite DTs, but you could have brought in Brett Venables, Nick Saban and Bill Belichek for the last two weeks before the Game and the outcome would have been exactly the same.
I wouldn't trade OSU's defense for ours. OSU doesn't have better defensive coaches than we do. We shredded OSU #1 defense in the first half (but forfeited two touchdowns red zone trips ended in fumble and a dropped end zone pass).
But we are living in an era where teams like OSU are capable of putting up 60-70+ points per game and that's the reality.
Fields and company will put up 45+ on Clemson/LSU during the CFP and there won't be anything Brett Venebales or anyone else can do to stop it.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:56 AM ^
Also keep in mind - Dantonio found ways to compete with OSU without matching their talent. Coaching was the difference. It can be done. But we need coaching that can elevate players into 5*s because we are not getting the se guys to A^2 in masses. If MSU can do it, UM can do it.
December 1st, 2019 at 10:02 AM ^
That's no longer true. MSU has lost its last three games against OSU by 45, 20 and 24 points.
December 1st, 2019 at 10:17 AM ^
Problem with that theory; MSU can catch OSU napping because it’s not a rivalry. Same reason Purdue and Iowa can beat them. Their focus for this game narrows our margin for error more so than those other teams.
December 1st, 2019 at 10:22 AM ^
Yeah MSU the team that beat them twice this decade for championships will catch OSU napping. Get over yourself.
December 1st, 2019 at 10:29 AM ^
OSU specifically carves out time in every practice to prepare for us. If you prefer I use the phrase “less prepared” as opposed to “napping”, fine.
December 1st, 2019 at 6:34 PM ^
Right. But Auburn does the same thing for Alabama, and has the same "talent gap" vs. Alabama, yet Auburn is 4-6 in the Iron Bowl this decade, while we are 1-9.
Look, I do NOT want Harbaugh to go. But player development from his assistant coaches has to be looked at. As well as coaching and culture.
There is no reason Gene Chizik (3 yrs) & Gus Malzahn (7) should be 4-6 against Nick Saban and we should be 1-9 vs. the 4 Ohio State coaches. Malzahn has 3 of those 4 wins BTW.
We can beat those dirt bags. Jim has to figure it out....if Auburn can do it, so can we.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:57 AM ^
This idea is right up there with 'Let's move Thanksgiving from November to August so we can make it a picnic in the park.'
December 1st, 2019 at 10:02 AM ^
No but how about we actually prepare for this game instead of treating it as an exhibition game?
December 1st, 2019 at 10:04 AM ^
Crazy how many cry babies on this board. Last game of year is OSU, you don’t want to play them the last game because we keep losing? What are you people like in real life? You gotta get better to beat the best. Reality is it can go both ways. We win 56-27 yesterday the buzz around us making the playoff would be real. You want the best (championships, elite program, pay big bucks for coach), than man up and try to beat the best. This move the game says we give up. Never in life should you give up.
December 1st, 2019 at 10:10 AM ^
What you are suggesting is like World War I tactics of continuing to charge straight into machine fire over and over again. The world has changed, we cannot take the enemy on with a full frontal assault. We need new strategy to out flank them.