Rational Expectations
This forum went to crap a long time ago. What was once interesting and contributive opinion and commentary has devolved to what I can only describe as what I was accustomed to hearing at the back of the bus on High School away games, over a half century ago.
Reality: We have a very good coach who is devoted to Michigan, with his whole heart and soul. Football teams are cyclical by nature. Unless you can roll the snowball and get the dynasty of recruiting (Some say "payment process") going like Alabama, you deal with peaks and troughs. See: USC, TX, ND, Nebraska, FL FSU, Miami, OK, and even LSU.
The coaches have no choice but to go all in with not only the players, but the staff they have chosen. Sometimes their previous decisions were wrong. And the ramifications are losses. Not unusual: Look at the NFL: If talent selection was anything close to perfect, there would be absolute parity. And the financial stakes there are much higher.
Expecting JH to come in as some kind of Messiah, and the disappointment regarding the failure of not delivering the promised land within 5 years, is on you much more than him. Unreasonable expectations defined.
He inherited a tire fire, by Michigan standards. Yes, he missed on some hires, and recruits. Most recently, I think he saw a Shea in practice who was well above the rest, but never performed as well in games. Either that, or the guys behind Shea are not as good as his projections/hopes. My opinion.
But to suggest that all is lost, Don Brown needs to be replaced by an assistant, or JH needs to go is lunacy. Who do you think is better?
5 years is nothing. The past means nothing. Have some faith in the leadership and their passion for bringing a winning team into the stadium.
And STFU, unless you can deliver Belichick or the like to the sideline.
Happy New Year, and Go Blue!
January 1st, 2020 at 10:08 PM ^
"We have an average to above average coach who likes being is own boss and being the highest paid in his occupation regardless of results"
Fixed that for you.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:11 PM ^
Did you though? A an don’t think so.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:21 PM ^
I mean honestly, it's kinda a sweet gig if you think about it. I know Warde is his boss but you think he's walking in there telling Harbaugh what to do? Harbaugh probably tells Warde to pick up his khakis from the dry cleaners.
January 1st, 2020 at 11:10 PM ^
Warde (figuratively) does, unless Warde decides to pull the trigger.
And if Warde pulls a Jim Caldwell to Matt Patricia move, he is so fired.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:26 PM ^
Your attitude that he is satisfied with his performance and results reflects more upon you, than him.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:43 PM ^
You're logic is completely flawed. To use your own thought process, Clemson should never have fired Tommy Bowden (a decent coach for sure for such a program with a decent past, but no way a historical program like Michigan). They should have just accepted that they are what they are. That Tommy was a very good representative of the Univ...which he was. Ran a clean program...which he did.
But you don't get Dabo Sweeny without firing Tommy Bowden. They took the risk and wanted more for their program. Their risk paid off.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:46 PM ^
So name your pick or STFU. And what if you are wrong? Have we not been there for a decade?
And you write of flawed logic?!?
Mind boggling.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:55 PM ^
Your response is exactly how people respond when they know they are wrong and their thought process has been dismantled.
You want names of Coaches that could do as good and perhaps better? (again, I cannot prove this, this is all pretend, but these coaches could at the very least do as good as JH.)
1. Chryst
2. Day
3. Fleck
4 Franklin
5. Pat Fitzgerald could walk into Michigan and win 8-9 games year in and year out.
There you go. Those are 5 names just from the B10. I could give you another 10 that could do just as good.
I mean it wouldn't be hard to duplicate what JH has done. Win 8-10 games. Lose essentially all games verse ranked opponents on the road. Go 1-4 in Bowl games. Go 0-5 vs your biggest rival. Get the two largest ass kickings by your rival in over 100 years of playing football. These aren't difficult things to do for talented coaches.
January 1st, 2020 at 11:00 PM ^
Man I'm glad you mentioned Pat Fitzgerald. Always thought he was a good coach, did about as much as anyone could at Northwestern.
January 2nd, 2020 at 12:19 AM ^
I am not impressed by Chryst or Franklin.
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:15 PM ^
I'm not sure if this is sarcasm, but I'll take the bait.
1. I don't think anybody would want a coach who is "as good" as Harbaugh now. Even his staunchest supporters wouldn't take another 5 years of the same. Eliminates Fitz, Fleck, and probably Franklin.
2. Would have to be attainable. Eliminates Day and probably Franklin.
Chryst is interesting. Had 1 great year, 3 Harbaugh-type years, and one bad year. Probably about the same caliber as Franklin. For some reason, I feel like Wisco coaches can only thrive at Wisco (probably bc of Beilema and Anderson)
January 1st, 2020 at 11:37 PM ^
On the flip side, you don't get national championship firebreathing Dabo Swinney if you fire Swinney after he loses a bowl 70-33 to West Virginia in year four.
January 2nd, 2020 at 8:38 AM ^
By your logic above, shouldn’t Clemson have fired Dabo by producing similar or even slightly worse results than what Harbaugh has produced in his first 5 years? I have been a Harbaugh supporter for a while now and still believe he is the right coach for our team, but I am also at the point where I am fine with any change that occurs. I believe Harbaugh has done a decent job of turning our program around but I thought we would be in a very different place after year 5 than we are right now. My hope is that Harbaugh continues to be diligent in finding the best position coaches to improve any progress that has been made. It takes one team to change the direction of your program, so let’s make it our 2020 team.
Go Blue!
January 2nd, 2020 at 8:46 AM ^
Goodness for the 100th time Dabo was in the ACC championship his second year Beating #8 Miami on the road in OT!! He also beat FSU that year He won the ACC in his 4th year!
Jim and Dabo are not the same and Clemson wasn’t firing Dabo after those results in first 5 years!! If Jim was even close to that, btw he isn’t, no one would be saying a thing
January 2nd, 2020 at 5:57 AM ^
Ftown can read minds at a distance. So he knows what Harbaugh thinks and likes.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:12 PM ^
Jesus... the cult of Harbaugh is back in full force. The “who you think will be betterisms” taking over for even assistants. Yikes.
Sad times we live in.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:25 PM ^
So name a better obtainable option or STFU.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:34 PM ^
PJ Fleck and Brent Venables
January 1st, 2020 at 10:44 PM ^
So confused with the love for PJ Fleck - he’s had two very good years out of seven - let’s pump the brakes and see if he has a bit more consistency moving forward
January 1st, 2020 at 10:47 PM ^
Hilarious!
Your first choice is a one year wonder from a team that no one cared was coming.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:59 PM ^
You really think that Fleck couldnt do better than Harbaugh. He beat Auburn and PSU with 2 and 3 star talent. He won WMU's first MAC title since 1988.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:49 PM ^
Brent Venables has had NUMEROUS opportunities to take other jobs and hasn't. It's well known that he really likes being a DC at Clemson and, let's be honest, I'm not sure he's recruiting a bunch of 5* DTs at Michigan regardless of how good he is X's and O's. Not that Michigan is above breaking some rules but good lord, OSU fans rag on Clemson for how flagrant they are with money.
Let's see how Fleck does after this year before we anoint him a savior; he went 6-1 in 1-score games this year, and is losing a lot on offense. He's probably a good coach but college football is littered with guys who had a solid year or two but couldn't sustain it when the competition picked up; ask Nebraska is Scott Frost seems like a sure thing.
Harbaugh is not the best coach in college football. But just randomly naming guys isn't proof they'd be better.
January 1st, 2020 at 11:48 PM ^
But there are people who ARE better. And it's the not the responsibility of a board poster to find who. It's ultimately the AD's.
The four best (or most successful) college coaches of this young century have probably been Meyer, Saban, Carroll, and Swinney. Meyer and Swinney weren't coordinators before given the head job and Carroll was a "failed" NFL coach when he landed at USC. Talent doesn't just come from the "hot" coordinator pool. Everyone talks about how bad NFL scouts and front offices are at evaluating the draft. College ADs are poor at evaluating head coaching talent.
I don't know who could do a better job at Michigan than Jim Harbaugh. But I absolutely promise you the answer isn't nobody. And I believe that while the pool might be small, people in it are findable and hireable (i.e. not Bill Belichick).
January 2nd, 2020 at 1:42 AM ^
Every name listed was/is head of a program proven or highly suspected of significant cheating. As Brian and others have pointed out, that is not the pool of candidates Michigan is going to run with.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:45 PM ^
That's your buddy's Warde job numbnuts. You've been conditioned to accept mediocrity. So Sad. "Hey, I'm fine with losing our last two games every year - I mean - who could possibly do better than that for $7 million per."
Loser talk.
January 1st, 2020 at 11:52 PM ^
You still want to kick the tires on Scott Frost?
January 1st, 2020 at 10:12 PM ^
What is Michigan's football identity? When I was growing up an NFL QB was the starting point. Without a stud QB you cannot hope to play even with the talent levels of OSU and Bama.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:25 PM ^
QB, LT, TB. Those are the foundation. I you miss on your picks, or fail to develop them, you cannot succeed.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:39 PM ^
How does one tell? Harbaugh picks his favorite at the beginning of the year and none of the others see the light of day. This is a character flaw or something. There are many things about the QB position at this level that practice does not distinguish who will perform best on the field under live fire. Today, surprisingly and contrary to popular opinion, we saw two teams the that were of very similar talent. But one team had a QB who crumbles under the least amount of pressure and the other stood in and delivered. And we have no idea if Michigan has another QB standing on the sidelines who can deliver-and the Michigan coaches actually have no idea either. Something has to change here if Michigan's on-field performance is going to improve. Just the facts.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:49 PM ^
I have not heard that. I've heard it's open competition, every practice. Meritocracy.
Why a better option was not developed is the bigger question.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:53 PM ^
The offense under Patterson scored 16 points today, in his last game... missed several long TDs.... it is undeniable he misses many throws in the long seam somehow... it is probably being in the pocket and getting rattled... some QBs get rattled and some don't. And it seems when he errs a few times, the rest of team caves... I don't think this will happen with McCaffrey, whether its charisma or moxie or whatever... I think this year Harbaugh had the team almost where he wanted it but the QB play and then the D faltered.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:15 PM ^
What should the expectation be relative to conference championships? “Those who stay will be champions“ means a conference championship every 3-4 years. That way, you have champions in the building mentoring other champions. Is that a reasonable expectation for the program?
January 1st, 2020 at 10:18 PM ^
Another awful OP who seems to be satisfied with being mediocre. Sad.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:51 PM ^
Another juvenile used to participation trophies expecting immediate gratification in a realm that is much more complicated than respected.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:22 PM ^
The "loss" to OSU in 16 looms large.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:28 PM ^
At its peak. As a dynasty. Yes. Not 5 years after a decade tire fire. It wasn't too long ago we lost to Akron and Toledo in the same year.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:32 PM ^
You need to check the archives. Though coming close in 2013, Michigan never lost to Akron. Michigan lost to Toledo in 2008, so I’m not sure where this “same year” stuff came from.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:52 PM ^
Sorry. I'll take your word. Seemed like both......
January 2nd, 2020 at 9:03 AM ^
Akron was winning with 4:46 left, Fitz T. plunged into the end zone with a 1:21 left which ended with a final score of 28-24
January 1st, 2020 at 10:34 PM ^
“At its peak. As a dynasty”
Well, Bo Schembechler made good on that promise in year one against a team every bit as generational as this Ohio State team.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:55 PM ^
And how many NC titles? In todays market, he doesnt get year 5.
January 2nd, 2020 at 12:00 AM ^
If Harbaugh had upset the 2015 Ohio team with all their players returning from a national title squad, we wouldn't having these discussions
January 2nd, 2020 at 8:01 AM ^
Personally, I wouldn't set national championships as an objective. I certainly would love Michigan to win them, don't get me wrong. However, in terms of setting attainable objectives (i.e., those within Michigan's control), B1G championships should be the objective. The B1G champion is likely in the playoffs anyway, where I'll be content to see what happens.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:48 PM ^
Ummm... .that never happened. Michigan did lose to Toledo 11 years ago. That's not exactly the recent past.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:16 PM ^
It depends on what you consider rational. I consider it rational that there are many other coaches out there doing a better job than Harbaugh. Would PJ Fleck come to Ann Arbor and win a big ten championship? Who the hell knows but it is delusional to say for sure that no other coach in America could give up less than 56 points to OSU and this is the best that we can achieve as a program.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:30 PM ^
So your proposition is to blindly roll the dice on someone else for the next 3-4 years. Got it. Sorry, I'll hold.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:42 PM ^
Blindly roll the dice? Of course not. Every coaching change is a dice roll. We rolled the dice on Harbaugh, and it seemed like really good odds, and we have severely underperformed against the expectations we had when he was hired. Almost everyone on this board would have expected a Big Ten Title, a Playoff appearance, and a couple wins over OSU. We’ve had none of that.
January 1st, 2020 at 10:44 PM ^
We know that we arent going to win anything with this staff. Why not roll the dice? Ohio State upgraded with Tressel and Urban, LSU upgraded with Coach O, Georgia upgraded with Kirby. If we keep Harbaugh we will lose the all time series record vs OSU.
January 2nd, 2020 at 12:11 AM ^
Guys who weren't surefire bets but succeeded in the Big Ten: Mark Dantonio, Jim Tressel, James Franklin, Ryan Day, Lloyd Carr, Paul Chryst, Bret Bielema, and Bo Fucking Schembechler.
Not to mention all the names outside the conference that have succeeded without being a sure bet. If you're afraid of risk, you become Iowa with a head coach who averages middling recruiting classes and an 8-5 record (ironically, has a B1G title appearance and a win over Ohio, two things Harbaugh does not). Are we just sophisticated Iowa? Not to me, we're not.
This fanbase is so traumatised by RichRod and Hoke that they can't see that coaching changes don't always lead to decades of mediocrity. The general trend today is to find a young, up and coming coordinator, then groom them into the next prodigy (a la Ryan Day, Dabo Swinney, Lincoln Riley). If only there was a young offensive mind on our staff with a penchant for recruiting and a real knack for technique that could provide a spark for this program (cough cough Josh Gattis cough cough)
January 1st, 2020 at 10:49 PM ^
I guess you're kind of right - I wouldn't trust that lacky Warde with that decision either. Blindly roll the dice - you do know lots of people can with 9 games here and lose to OSU every year, right? Hoke and RR and not the mean.