Monday Basketball Discussion Thread
Big Ten Tourney Week. Congrats to MSU. Impressive season, fought through legit adversary and won some really big games. I think both losses, particularly this last one, will help this Michigan team grow both in this post-season and next season as well.
The Friday midnight tip is going to make this a little bit of a long week, but with Matthews still recovering I guess the longer we wait the better. Hopefully this can make for a little bit of a random discussion depository for thoughts and takes that don't warrant their own thread.
First, who do you see winning the BTT and what is your opinion of our draw. I don't hate the likely Iowa matchup, though I get a knot in my stomach every time Jordan Bohanan shoots a 3. I think Iowa likes to push pace and attack down hill but that is tough to do against our transition defense. We also need to avenge the ref-show in Iowa City so I am fairly comfortable with the matchup. Not much about Purdue scares me (assuming a healthy Matthews), I like that matchup if we get there. Frankly, looking at the bracket, it is hard not see Michigan v. Michigan State Part 3 as coming to fruition next Sunday. Part of me wants it to try to square things on the season to the extent possible. Another part of me hopes the next time we see Cassius Winston on the same floor as Michigan will be at Crisler sometime next January.
Also, maybe it has been posted and discussed, but what exactly is Matthews injury? Is it just a sprain, the dreaded "high ankle" maybe? It surprises me that he both returned to the game in which it happened and has taken this long to recover. I know he practiced and warmed up, which seems to indicate that he wants to play, but with his NBA aspirations a part of me wonders if he is a little apprehensive about pushing his luck. Chances are he is going to have to really impress at the draft combine, etc., and it would not be ideal if he is nursing anything at that time. Have not "heard" anything to indicate that is the case, but given what the injury looked to be I thought he would be back by now. I certainly thought we would see a few minutes from him on Saturday.
In any case, there was a time just a decade ago when our only shot at the NCAA tournament was to try to win the BTT tournament only to give up a wide open half court heave to OSU. And while Saturday was not ideal, we are a looong way from those days. Let it begin. Happy March Madness.
I dunno, X getting called when Loyer absolutely crapped his pants and fell down might be the worst call i've ever seen.
March 11th, 2019 at 10:53 AM ^
Sam's broadcast this morning was all about the toughlove... no ref discussion whatsoever.
EDIT: I like what you're saying, northernmich, sort of, for a change. So I don't know enough about the game to be more conclusive, I just kind of evaluate and question information as it flows along. A lopsided whistle (whatever the reason for it) seems to impact a team's ability to play defense, which then bleeds over to the offense. So I can't listen to extended critiques of the offense without wondering what factors contribute to it being that way.
March 11th, 2019 at 11:31 AM ^
It could work both ways I think. The way you said, where a team gets passive, and generally with this certain Michigan team that seems to be the case. Or, they could take the ball to the rim more and get those same calls on the other end. They let the two teams play pretty physical away from the basket, but once they were at the rim the refs seemed to have a quick whistle. MSU just seemed relentless to the basket and forces Michigan to foul them or they were gonna offensive rebound and eventually get a basket.
March 11th, 2019 at 10:53 AM ^
Bring on the NCAA Tourney - let the REAL season begin. Don't care too much about the B1G Tourney
March 11th, 2019 at 11:00 AM ^
Any chance Cassius Winston goes pro? It would be nice to not have to face him again.
March 11th, 2019 at 11:07 AM ^
He is not even mentioned in the 1st or 2nd rounds of mock drafts, so I would expect him to be back again next year.
March 11th, 2019 at 11:43 AM ^
Izzo won't let him.
He is not going pro. His game is an old mans game. He cannot jump, and he holds off guards with his off hand in the college game he somehow gets away with it. In the pros he not only would suffer offensively but he’d be Loyer’d every possession. He couldn’t hold anyone. He’s a Modern day Mateen with a better jumper. If he ever gets called for those grab-holds X should do much better next matchup.
March 11th, 2019 at 11:01 AM ^
cassius took the game over, cassius carried his team, cassius walks on water.... fuck cassius.
he finished with 23 pts, Iggy finished with 20 and he sat 10 min of the first half and fouled out with 5 minutes to go in the 2nd.
The second half of that game sucked, and dakich is quickly becoming just as annoying as dickie v.
March 11th, 2019 at 11:01 AM ^
I just want MSU to lose and Izzo to go away. That midget bugs the crap out of me.
March 11th, 2019 at 11:03 AM ^
Another part of me hopes the next time we see Cassius Winston on the same floor as Michigan will be at Crisler sometime next January.
I assume he will go pro. Maybe I'm wrong.
March 11th, 2019 at 11:21 AM ^
He isn't going pro. MSU is going to return a lot. They will probably be Top 5 pre-season.
March 11th, 2019 at 11:23 AM ^
Surprisingly, you are apparently wrong.
I kinda thought the same thing, but everyone everywhere is saying he's not even on the NBA radar. Seems weird to me. The NBA just doesn't do point guards anymore? Because what I've seen of him twice this season, I can't believe there are many better right now.
March 11th, 2019 at 11:30 AM ^
The NBA is a different game. Winston is very small, very limited athletically (if he can dunk the ball I am guessing it is not by much), and is relatively poor defender. He is a very "crafty" scorer, but crafty doesn't really cut it at the next level. Do I think he can make an NBA roster at some point? Sure, he could have a cup of coffee and perhaps develop into a depth PG. I don't think he is a "leave early" type guy though.
March 11th, 2019 at 12:32 PM ^
I disagree with pretty much all of that. There are 6-foot point guards drafted every year. I don't know what the definition of "crafty scorer" is, but whatever it is I want one. Winston shoots 41% from three. He has an effective midrange/floater game that has him better than 51% from two.
He's averaging more points than our leading scorer while spreading more assists than our leading assists man. He's by far the most dangerous option on a injury-depleted MSU team that still just became conference champion. Maybe he plays lousy defense, but Michigan couldn't seem to exploit it.
Statistically, he's having a better year than Trey Burke's 2013. To clarify, that's 6-foot-nothing, National Player of the Year and Lottery Pick, Trey Burke. And no, Trey Burke was not drafted for his defense.
I don't care to talk Cassius Winston anymore, but I still have no idea why isn't on draft boards.
March 11th, 2019 at 12:42 PM ^
Fair enough.
Same here, friend. You're obviously not wrong because every draftnik is in your corner.
And I agree with you on not wanting to talk Winston anymore.
Like I said in my OP, I would typically want another crack at MSU but really I just don't want to have to look at their faces again for as long as possible.
He is not a capable scorer at the next level, period. He has a very slow wind up shot and he is extremely slow. You answered your own question,”you do not know why he isn’t on any draft boards!” It’s because he would struggle against all starting point guards in the NBA and in the G league. Sorry but he’s a good college guard and so are lots of other college guards. Trey Burke had to work his way back from the G league to get back into the league. And Cassius has better numbers than Trey Burke on a team with ZERO pro players. Trey had four other teammates who went pro. Very poor comparison of productivity between the two players.
This didn't make any sense. Thanks for stopping by.
Weird
March 11th, 2019 at 11:05 AM ^
MAtthews was healthy enough to wind mill dunk with authority in warmups
March 11th, 2019 at 11:08 AM ^
Saw that too, looked plenty fine to me. I’m sure someone will freak out tell us how being super athletic looking and dunking doesn’t translate into being healthy enough to play however.
March 11th, 2019 at 11:16 AM ^
Something, something, it is different to elevate versus planting, pivoting, changing directions, etc.
Still, that is a positive sign.
March 11th, 2019 at 11:26 AM ^
Michigan Daily reporter in attendance said he was "noticeably limping" pregame.
March 11th, 2019 at 11:32 AM ^
Not sure he goes from "noticeably limping" to full go in a week. That is concerning. I wonder if he tweaked it in warmups? ( Possibly on that very windmill dunk referenced above).
March 11th, 2019 at 11:10 AM ^
MSU will win the conference tounament.
March 11th, 2019 at 11:14 AM ^
..... it is hard not see Michigan v. Michigan State Part 3 as coming to fruition next Sunday.
Actually, I don’t think that is the most likely outcome, as much as I would love to see it.
March 11th, 2019 at 11:19 AM ^
I think with the BTT we either bow out on Friday against Iowa (bad matchup), or make it to the title game and then I'd say I give MSU a slight edge. If Matthews plays, I'd say that game is 50-50. If Matthews is still out I'd say we lose that game outright, which would really sting losing to them three times in the span of a month. Michigan just can't afford to go on long scoring droughts against good teams. Held up as long as we could against MSU on Saturday, but once the proverbial scoring drought came along they ate us alive. But I still can't argue with a 26-5 record during a year that everyone thought would be a rebuild. Spanked Villanova on their own court, and beat up on UNC on national television. Great season all the same.
As far as the tournament goes, not too sure. All depends on who's in our bracket. They could make it to the Elite Eight, even sneak into the Final Four if their December shooting comes back. But then they could run into a high-flying mid-major in the Round of 32, go on a scoring drought and lose right then and there. So I'll meet in the middle and say they bow out in the Sweet 16. So not bad, not truly memorable.
But the stage is set for a very big 2019-2020 campaign. Aside from Matthews, my hunch is that everyone comes back. And that has the makings of a preseason top-10 Final Four contender.
March 11th, 2019 at 11:51 AM ^
Iowa, in addition to being the bad matchup as you said, actually needs a win or two in the BTT. They need some positive momentum. They're going to make the NCAA but they could fall as low as an #11 seed with a loss to U-M.
March 11th, 2019 at 12:03 PM ^
Iowa is also 1-5 in their last 6, and the two wins before that were those crazy games against NW and Rutgers. Yes they need wins, but they also aren't really playing like a team that can get them. It's not a great matchup, but sometimes a team is just bad and their earlier run can't be expected to return.
March 11th, 2019 at 11:30 AM ^
Said it yesterday and I'll repeat it here. I think we'll lose in the BTT Championship game and then make a run to the final four. I dont think most of us realize just what a negative impact the guys who generally officiate B1G games has on our team and how positive the impact it is once we're rid of them.
It's why we generally outperform our seeding in the Tourny
And it's also why MSU & Wisconsin generally under-perform theirs.
March 11th, 2019 at 11:39 AM ^
I agree with the Final Four prediction. However, 1. Any Final Four run is draw dependent, if we get a death bracket I may have to reconsider. 2. We need Matthews back healthy for the BTT to get into a groove with the rotation. If he is out until the actual NCAA tournament it would be a complete game changer.
On balance, I agree though. I think that we will bow out in the Elite 8 at the earliest and I like our chances at a FF appearance.
That’s 100 percent true. See the Winston up and under, travel-walk foul call on Teske. No way does that get called in the Tournament. The Teske walk never gets called because ultimately it,”just plain wasn’t a travel!” We will do just fine. GO BLUE! I’ll also predict that our poor offense somehow gets immensely better because for some odd reason I believe coach Beilein could care less about showing his genius until it really counts. GO BLUE!
I dont think most of us realize just what a negative impact the guys who generally officiate B1G games has on our team and how positive the impact it is once we're rid of them.
Agree 100% with this statement, Oldie! Saturday the starting 5 for Michigan were totally taking it to MSU up and down the floor. The ball was moving side to side, shots were falling, and the guys were playing great defense. Then, Izzo began his whining campaign and everything changed. For some unknown reason, officials who ref in the B10 regular season are intimidated by him and more often than not give him what he wants.
It’s not just that the refs tighten up the calls across the board — they were letting the guys play early — they go totally lopsided and start nitpicking on Michigan. I knew it had begun when Castleton picked up that soft ass foul when Winston drove. No really contact, no disruption of his run, nothing ... but a super quick whistle. MSU’s players have seen it all before, they know exactly what’s happening — their intensity went up, and Michigan’s went down.
The same doesn’t happen — at least not until the finals when we’re playing Louisville — in the NCAA Tournament. Michigan doesn’t foul, and no amount of whining is going to make those officials call fouls that aren’t there, like they do during the B10 season. Coach B needs to tell his players when they sense that tide turning that if you’re going to get called anyway, make the guy remember you’re there and foul him hard.
Call it close, or let them play, but call it evenly. Saturday night was anything but even and it caused Michigan to back off and MSU to push harder.
March 11th, 2019 at 11:42 AM ^
The expectations around here are just so high now. B1G regular season titles, BTT titles, and Final Fours.
Big difference since the 1999-2010 black hole.
And it makes the season so much fun to watch and being a fan of this team, getting to watch the team deep into March is such a joy.
With that said, this team is a good group of guys and whatever they had in November to early December, they don't have anymore.
The team that's been out there without Matthews, is the team we will be watching next year too. Hope the guys put up lots of shots this summer and Nunez and Castelton develop into the next Stauskas and Wagner.
Great year guys, lots of fun watching you!
I simply don't see how they beat Iowa or get lucky and make the final and beat MSU.
Then as a 3 or 4 seed in the dance, I don't see how they make any significant noise.
But that's what comes with a significant jump in expectations, disappointment when the team doesn't win titles. Especially a year like this, where it was there for the taking.
Thanks for the memories boys! Was a joy watching you!
March 11th, 2019 at 11:46 AM ^
The f....? You "don't see how they beat Iowa?"
Shoo troll.
March 11th, 2019 at 11:53 AM ^
Yah, I don't see it.
They are a bad matchup for UM and UM already has lost to them by double digits
And the troll thing is played out. If you can't handle constructive criticism and alternative opinions, maybe stay off the internet. Otherwise, offer your opinion, in order to have a discussion. Saying "troll" is lazy. Try harder.
March 11th, 2019 at 11:55 AM ^
I don't think you understand what "constructive criticism" means.
March 11th, 2019 at 11:59 AM ^
Oh I understand it quite well
Still no opinion of your own then, huh? Need to play pedantic games and call people trolls because you don't like what they say?
Cool - good for you
March 11th, 2019 at 12:06 PM ^
Yes. My opinion is that we can beat Iowa.
March 11th, 2019 at 12:09 PM ^
Well...that... was anticlimactic
Try laying off the troll shit from now on, especially the "shoo troll" move. You've overused it now.
I see that you love to toss it around quite a bit to posters you don't agree with.
Be better.
March 11th, 2019 at 12:15 PM ^
Listen man. You are a troll. You created a new account a couple of weeks ago, you lied about not knowing about the blog before that, and all you do is post inflammatory negative non-sense about the basketball team. So I am not going to stop calling a spade a spade.
MGoWill, if you come across this just nuke this clown.
March 11th, 2019 at 12:33 PM ^
Oh got it. Because I haven't been here since 9.21.2009, I am not as good as you. Got it.
Or maybe if I have 59,800 fake internet points, I could share my mind. Got it.
I am also confused how I lied about not knowing the blog. I didn't know of it. Help me understand how I lied? Do you know something about me that I don't know myself?
I remember that conversation. You're clearly full of shit. Nobody needs to recap it.
Jeez - you guys are pretty hung up on when and how someone discovers the site.
March 11th, 2019 at 12:15 PM ^
Not finding anything "constructive" in your commentary.
You're here to antagonize, Vinny, and this ain't your first rodeo either.
March 11th, 2019 at 12:41 PM ^
Ain't my first rodeo? Help me understand?
How's this for you though?
- Michigan has very little big depth, and while CC has played better as of late in spurts, if Teske gets into foul trouble, Iowa's front court depth will cause big trouble for UM, much like it did in the first game.
- Michigan still goes through multiple scoring droughts a game and doesn't have anyone that can produce their own shot consistently, meaning these droughts aren't a mirage.
- Z still can't shoot and teams will continue to sink and give him that look to take away his strengths - which I believe Iowa will do.
- Iowa is playing for their tourney lives and UM just came off a deflating loss and has to sit an extra day to think about it. Momentum and mentalities matter in college sports - Iowa seemingly has more to play for and their coach is back from suspension now, giving extra motivation.
- Poole is still playing hero ball, which is a detriment to the offense
- Matthews is most likely out (he's out until it's reported he isn't) and that hurts the depth and defensive ability even more.
Now, let's hear your opinion. That's all. No need to be angry about someone sharing their opinions here.
Momentum & Mentalities: I actually agree with this, but it's not lopsided like you say. Michigan has the revenge factor from that Iowa game. I would feel MUCH worse if we had beat them earlier in the season. Michigan is 4-2 in it's last 6 games, Iowa is 1-5.
Iowa not playing for the tournament, just playing for seeding. Michigan in the same boat and angry to prove the haters wrong after a tough loss.
If Matthews makes it back, it could provide a spark for this team.
Michigan has the revenge factor from that Iowa game...Michigan in the same boat and angry to prove the haters wrong after a tough loss.
I can get behind this take. I know Michigan has lost back to back games in what? A year and half, 2 years? Something like that.
As for Matthews, I have heard he was dunking in warm ups Saturday and was limping around. So I don't know what to expect with him. UM plays more fluid on D with him.