English vs. Shafer
I'll be honest with you - I think there should have been a greater effort to keep English. Yes we sucked at rushing defense in 07, but the players always were fired up to play for English. He delivered chest bumps to players on the sidelines, and didn't hole himself up in a booth.
Hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but what do you think?
November 24th, 2008 at 2:27 PM ^
I agree completely. I thought English was a great coach, and it would have been nice to have some semblance of stability in this past season.
November 24th, 2008 at 2:29 PM ^
English: lost to App. St., absolutely HAMMERED by Oregon.
Louisville's D is ranked #72.
November 24th, 2008 at 2:32 PM ^
that's in his first year, give it some time.
We certainly shouldn't have lost to Appy and Oregon, but a few fixes made the D good enough to win 9 games. I honestly wonder if Shafer could have pulled that off. the Purdue loss, honestly, was comparable to the Appy State loss - actually, ASU was probably the better team.
November 24th, 2008 at 2:40 PM ^
that's in his first year, give it some time.
That's so insanely stupid I don't think this needs to be argued anymore.
November 24th, 2008 at 2:53 PM ^
This love of Ron English sounds like some real revisionist history here.
I liked the guy, but '07 really kinda destroyed any credit he earned for the '06 defense.
Unfortunately, I'm really disappointed in Shafer (is it "Schafer" or "Shafer" -- I can't keep it straight) after all the hype I'd read about him the previous two years at Stanford and WMU.
November 24th, 2008 at 3:01 PM ^
o rly? you're right, since this wasn't shafer's first year or anything, his performance is completely inexcusable
November 24th, 2008 at 3:27 PM ^
Arguing against Schafer while defending English with "that's in his first year, give it some time" is so hilariously, mind-bogglingly, ball-shakingly stupid, I can't even explain.
November 24th, 2008 at 2:31 PM ^
RR was smart to replace any coach who had interviewed to replace Lloyd. As a total newcomer to the program, he couldn't have people working for him that wanted his job. Especially considering the politics inside Schembechler, RR needed to surround himself with people he trusted and who were loyal to him. FWIW, I respect RR's loyalty to his staff.
I do miss English's west coast recruiting connections, however. Although the new staff's reach in to places like Florida is most definitely a net gain.
November 24th, 2008 at 3:14 PM ^
but there IS the approach Abraham Lincoln took: show you're big enough not to be threatened by the people who want your job. It brought mixed results.
November 24th, 2008 at 2:31 PM ^
English was the great coach whose defense gave up 34 to App State last year and then 39 to Oregon the next week.
November 24th, 2008 at 2:33 PM ^
but I am not convinced our D would have been any better with him in control. Our 2006 D had a lot to do with awesome talent and less to do with great coaching, imho. English was a motivator, but I didn't see where he excelled in teaching or coming up with great schemes.
November 24th, 2008 at 2:38 PM ^
Yes, we had some really insane losses. But 2006? If he gets the EMU job like Carty suggested (not going to happen) I'd be happy.
November 24th, 2008 at 2:43 PM ^
I have been posting my feelings on Shafer on the blog I contribute to, and count me in the camp who misses English. His defenses improved as the year went on. Yes, the App State and Oregon games happened, but he shut down Juice and OSU after that. Shafer's team had more experience and gave up 48 to Purdue nine games into the season.
Even if they were equal in coordinating abilities, English's recruiting skills trump Shafer's easily.
We gave up 40+ points four times this year; we gave up 40+ points only four times since Bo was hired.
November 24th, 2008 at 2:47 PM ^
is so overrated. who did RE bring in besides DW? johnny sears? chris richards? eugene germany? come on guys
November 24th, 2008 at 3:01 PM ^
This might sound kind of weird, but, I actually believe that Ron English will be a better head coach than he is a defensive coordinator. He seems like a natural leader, which is a very important quality (perhaps the MOST important quality) for a head coach. I know that Phil Callahan over at umgoblue.com has said that Bill Martin and others in the administration at UM are still very high on English.
November 24th, 2008 at 3:05 PM ^
But if RichRod is forced out as many predict, I'm confident English will replace him.
November 24th, 2008 at 3:11 PM ^
I'm listening to 97.1 right now and Terry Foster just said that there are some up in AA that wouldn't mind it if Rich Rod took off to Clemson.
For the record, I don't think Rich Rod is going anywhere for at least another two seasons, that is, unless next season is as bad as this season was. In that case, I think all bets are off.
November 24th, 2008 at 3:08 PM ^
Who's predicting that Rodriguez will be forced out? What the H are you talking about?
November 24th, 2008 at 3:10 PM ^
I didn't mean serious people. Hence why I said I hated talking like an idiot in the title.
November 24th, 2008 at 3:14 PM ^
OHHH my bad. I was wondering who the hell would ever logically think he would be "forced out". Of course, I've heard some media types (cough cough Terry Foster cough cough)say that Michigan "got rid of Lloyd", so apparently there is no end to the stupidity that can be spewed, swallowed and regurgitated.
November 24th, 2008 at 3:26 PM ^
If for some unlikely reason, RR should leave within 10 years that English will replace him.
November 24th, 2008 at 3:32 PM ^
OR...MIKE HART!
November 24th, 2008 at 3:14 PM ^
Nobody is. I'm not sure where you got that from.
November 24th, 2008 at 3:07 PM ^
For all his faults Oregon, App State, USC, and such I liked the way English's defense played better than Shafer's. That being said Louisville is only ahead of Syracuse in pts/g and yds/g in the Big East. I keep holding firm to the Shafer love that GSIMMONS touts. I definitely think it would be foolish to get rid of Shafer, or for RR to micromanage his defense if he doesn't want to run a 3-3-5.
English absolutely has the better name. Any time a big hit, int, or sack occurred you could blurt out "That's Olde English!" or "English 101 Beotch!" I miss this quiet a bit.
November 24th, 2008 at 3:07 PM ^
I'm not completely removing blame from English, BUT...
...why do people bash him so much for giving up 39 points to Oregon?
Oregon was an explosive team who a) had the front-runner for the Heisman and b) were in the mix for the national championship until Dixon tore his ACL.
On top of that, our starting QB missed the entire second half with a sprained knee, and our true freshman QB seeing his first collegiate action couldn't sustain any drives whatsoever. So a portion of those 39 points should be blamed on the offense as well.
We can blame him all we want for Appalachian State, but Michigan was an inferior team to the 2007 Oregon Ducks. We should just admit that and move on.
November 24th, 2008 at 3:30 PM ^
So why does having to play defense for an inept, freshman-quarterbacked team excuse English and not Schafer?
November 24th, 2008 at 4:05 PM ^
Because English allowed 39 points to a senior QB on a potential NC team.
Shafer allowed 48 points to a bottom-dwelling Big Ten team with a redshirt freshman QB who had been playing wide receiver.
I'd say that's a pretty big difference.
November 24th, 2008 at 4:10 PM ^
Where does allowing 35+ to a D-1AA team fit in?
November 24th, 2008 at 4:41 PM ^
1-AA doesn't exist anymore! It's "FCS" now!
PUT THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT
November 24th, 2008 at 4:52 PM ^
Thank you for showing me what I've always assumed - you only read my posts for what you WANT to see, not what's actually there.
Please notice that I said "We can blame English all we want for Appalachian State."
November 24th, 2008 at 5:14 PM ^
addressed here:
"We can blame him all we want for Appalachian State,"
I think his point was that if you want to compare giant fuck-ups between the two DCs, you can legitimately compare App. St. to the Purdue game, but not the Oregon game.
I'll add this: I think a more accurate comparison for Oregon 07 is Illinois 08, or PSU 08, or OSU 08.
November 24th, 2008 at 4:13 PM ^
English was also the guy whose defense gave up 34 to a Div II school the week before giving up 39 to Oregon.
November 24th, 2008 at 4:43 PM ^
It's somewhat ironic that I left the above comment now that I see this.
Can we please destroy the "1-AA/FCS and Division II are the same thing" meme, because it's not true and it really is kind of annoying.
November 24th, 2008 at 4:50 PM ^
Yeah. Mea culpa. I claim an awful Monday and lack of caffeine.
November 24th, 2008 at 4:32 PM ^
I hear your point, but Oregon could have put up 60 if they really wanted to. Wasn't it 32-7 at half?
November 24th, 2008 at 3:32 PM ^
Look for Ron English to be making a return to Michigan.
Eastern Michigan, that is. He's getting some serious talk for their vacancy, and Lloyd Carr will be an aide to the coaching search.
November 24th, 2008 at 3:33 PM ^
He laughs that job off. I know his stock's gone down because Louisville blows, but if he's gone from Michigan, Arkansas and maybe Northern Illinois to EMU then wow.
November 24th, 2008 at 3:32 PM ^
One thing this defense needed was more chest-bumps. Jesus.
Look, I'm pretty sure that I could coordinate a successful defense if you gave me Lamarr Woodley, Alan Branch, Terrence Taylor, Tim Jamison, David Harris, Shawn Crable, Leon Hall, and Jamar Adams.
November 24th, 2008 at 3:45 PM ^
"He delivered chest bumps to players on the sidelines, and didn't hole himself up in a booth."
You know who else coaches from the booth?
The OC at Florida.
And trust me, that offense fucking blows. Just atrocious. Tebow once said they can't score because he doesn't get enough chest bumps during the game.
November 24th, 2008 at 3:54 PM ^
....actually I buy that only because the players knew the system and their roles.....last year, the D had to replace as many starters that got drafted in the NFL than I've ever seen in one year off of a UM D......why anyone is surprised they had troubles early on is shocking to me.
The D got better as the year went on, it went from being rebuilt and possible total disaster to serviceable, borderline good.
One problem this year is we had a lot of veteran guys who suddenly had to do everything different. Everything. Including respond emotionally to a guy who is up in a booth. But everything changed for them and it showed on the field.
I like English.....I have no idea if he is a better DC than Shaffer.....but the D would have been better--this year--with him because it was his crew, his guys. They could have built off of last year's improvement, instead of having to scrape it all and start anew.
In the short term, I think keeping Ron English probably is enough to have kept the bowl streak intact.....but, clearly this guy is a hot commodity......so maybe we would have been better off this season, but what if RR has to spend a lot of time interviewing new DCs because English lands a HC job? Does that help RR build his program?
He went with a clean break and its hard to pick a true contention with that.
November 24th, 2008 at 4:03 PM ^
Apple Pie by Grandma Ople
Link
INGREDIENTS
* 1 recipe pastry for a 9 inch double crust pie
* 1/2 cup unsalted butter
* 3 tablespoons all-purpose flour
* 1/4 cup water
* 1/2 cup white sugar
* 1/2 cup packed brown sugar
* 8 Granny Smith apples - peeled, cored and sliced
DIRECTIONS
1. Preheat oven to 425 degrees F (220 degrees C). Melt the butter in a saucepan. Stir in flour to form a paste. Add water, white sugar and brown sugar, and bring to a boil. Reduce temperature and let simmer.
2. Place the bottom crust in your pan. Fill with apples, mounded slightly. Cover with a lattice work of crust. Gently pour the sugar and butter liquid over the crust. Pour slowly so that it does not run off.
3. Bake 15 minutes in the preheated oven. Reduce the temperature to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C). Continue baking for 35 to 45 minutes, until apples are soft.
November 24th, 2008 at 4:11 PM ^
If this was written by someone named "Grandma Ople", it's gotta be good.
November 24th, 2008 at 4:11 PM ^
Bottom line, Rich Rod was NOT going to retain a coordinator from the former staff who interviewed not once, but, twice for the head coaching job. I doubt English would've wanted to come back to UM under those circumstances, anyway.
November 24th, 2008 at 4:21 PM ^
When he was coaching the defensive backs at Michigan I pointed to English as an up-and-coming head coach.
His first act was to fix whatever was wrong with Jeremy LeSeur, and that impressed the hell out of me. He also got competence out of Markus Curry. And Ernest Shazor.
But there were warning signs. For one, though star recruits like Leon Hall and Ryan Mundy topped the lists, we always seemed to end up thin. Like Grant Mason transfers from Stanford and starts thin. Like Marlin Jackson is moving to safety thin.
His guys could tackle and take good angles. But while OSU was bringing in Ted Ginn, Jamario O'Neal et al., by the time English was promoted to DC, our starting safeties were Willis Barringer and Brandent Englemon, and that's before Angry Michigan Safety Hating God (the ORIGINAL anti-Wolverine being) forced starts from young Jamar Adams, Brandon Harrison and RB switchover Darnell Hood in the Year of Infinite Pain (remember how painful that was?)
Brian has been putting the recruiting downturn the last few years on Lloyd, which is fair, but I posit that the assistants too did a bad job finding and developing talent. There's no proof here that this is all on English. I'm just pointing out a correlation. English inherited a backfield of Marlin, Hall, Curry, LeSeuer and Shazor, and left it essentially barren.
Likewise, he inherited a defense of Branch, Watson, Woods, Woodley, Johnson, Burgess, Reid and Dave Harris, and fell in love with Pat Massey.
It could just be that some high-profile players turned out to be busts, except the exact same thing that happened to the defensive backs over 2003-04 has happened to the linebackers and defensive linemen over 05-07. His best recruits over that time were Brandon Graham, whose brother was already here, Donovan Warren, and it seems Jonas Mouton. Those are some great players at the top, but no depth.
November 24th, 2008 at 4:18 PM ^
Markus Curry and Ernest Shazor were both retardedly highly rated recruits. Getting "competence" from them isn't really an accomplishment.
November 25th, 2008 at 10:10 AM ^
Curry was highly rated, yes, but until English arrived, he wasn't translating that rating to play on the field. And Shazor was highly rated too, but again, before English he was a lost-in-coverage guy with a rap for attitude problems, and afterwards he was bypassed by the NFL and couldn't hack it on the practice squad of the worst Arizona Cardinals team I've ever seen. Yet in between he was an All-American, and perhaps the best defensive back in college football.
I think it's possible coaching had something to do with these two, and LeSeuer (who was also insanely highly rated) changing from disappointments to important assets.
On the other hand, it makes you wonder why he couldn't do this with Mundy.
November 25th, 2008 at 10:15 AM ^
When did Ernest Shazor ever stop being lost in coverage? When was Markus Curry ever anything better than "servicable"?
I'll admit - LeSeur went from nightmarish to legitimately good in the course of a season.
November 24th, 2008 at 5:12 PM ^
the complaint about coaching from the booth is so dumb it has to be a joke.
people can't actually believe that
November 24th, 2008 at 5:20 PM ^
Frankly, I'm not convinced that either English or Shafer is top-notch. There have been too many meltdown performances in the last few years for me to think otherwise. I know we were thin in the back seven this year, but still . . . 48 points to Purdue? 45 to Illinois?