WTKA Roundtable 3/16/2023: All the Coach's Sons Comment Count

Seth March 16th, 2023 at 10:30 AM

Things discussed:

  • Did anyone break down the NIT bracket? Go check the Bracket Assist Tool—it's got all the NIT teams in it.
  • Michigan offseason: Assume the Big 3 come back, what are they, and do they invite back the bad bench?
  • Jett talk: He's not playing winning basketball, team actually plays its best games without him. Well, he looks like a freshman. He shouldn't, because he's a coach's son and an NBA son and an IMG guy, but do the NBA or IMG teach defense?
  • NCAA vs NBA: NCAA you're part of a team, NBA you can shoot threes and ignore defense unless your team is one of the few with a chance of winning a title.
  • Offense is going to take a leap forward when Dug figures out how to point—go look at KSU's point guard. This is a several year process, but he should go from an 21/16 TO/assist guy to a 28/14 guy, to a 32/12 guy, to a 40/10 guy.
  • How to portal: There are SO MANY guys out there. Get a glue guy who can rebound like the guy from Wofford. Get a JT Shumate.
  • Llewellyn? Michigan can afford to keep everyone on scholarship using NIL, but they need to have a conversation with TW, Tschetter, and if they get back Kobe, Llewellyn as well, and say "this is the role you've got, because we're hitting the portal for your position."
  • Bracket talks: Purdue has a pretty easy run to the Elite 8 and is screwed after. Duke is meh, Tennessee lost Zeigler, KSU and Marquette are the best 2 and 3.
  • Craig's advice (via Roundtable alum Ed Feng): UConn over Kansas.
  • Penn State? Like Shrewsberry, love Pickett, but they're so three-dependent, their shot volume stuff is terrible, they're 2nd to last in the country at turnovers and offensive rebounding.
  • Hockey: Go read Alex's article.

[Hit the JUMP for the player, and video and stuff]

You can catch the entire episode on Michigan Insider's podcast stream.

Segment two is here. You can watch the video here:

The Usual Links:

The NCAA doesn't care, except when it comes to Michigan they suddenly care about a hamburger.

Comments

Preacher Mike

March 16th, 2023 at 10:56 AM ^

I cannot believe how Brian, Seth, and the whole WTKA roundtable attacked and disparaged Jett Howard on this podcast. I certainly hope the moderators do the right thing and delete this podcast immediately.

michgoblue

March 16th, 2023 at 11:34 AM ^

Literally nothing said is remotely inaccurate. Jett has a ton of talent and potential. But, he isn’t playing winning basketball, which is why the team was 4-0 without him. He does not put in any effort on defense. That directly impacts the entire team defense. He also doesn’t put in even a bit of effort on rebounds. Those are really important things on the college level. On offense, while he has all of the ability in the world, when he has the ball, he spends half of the shot clock just dribbling and isolating and ultimately ends up taking terrible shots. Even worse, when he doesn’t have the ball, he literally just stands there waiting for the ball. Having all of your players, especially those off ball, active in the offense, setting screens, rotating through their motions, etc stressed the defense and allows for the creation of much better scoring opportunities for the entire team. Bottom line, when Jett is in the game, we are a worse team on both ends of the floor. Moreover, guys like Bufkin and Dug are significantly worse when he is playing. 

michgoblue

March 16th, 2023 at 11:41 AM ^

Sorry, I missed that thread so the sarcasm went right over my head. In that case, as long as people are being respectful and not leveling personal attacks on the character or personal lives of our players, I don’t get why some on this board are getting so bent out of shape by accurate and, frankly, well-deserved criticism. 

MightAndMainWeCheer

March 16th, 2023 at 11:47 AM ^

Jett absolutely is a prime reason for why Michigan was losing those must-win games at the end of the season.  He was playing losing basketball.

On offense, he would just jack up terrible shots (which stopped falling like they had earlier in the season) and ball-movement would just stop as soon as the ball got into his hands (leaving the other four players to just stand around).

On defense, he was still just loafing. He could not stop dribble penetration and would constantly lose his man on back door cuts for easy baskets. He showed zero toughness in boxing out his man and rebounding. The complete lack of effort was the most annoying aspect of him being on the court.

I personally hope he leaves for the NBA. He's a cancer that needs to be rooted out before his lack of effort and toughness metastasizes to the rest of the team.

dragonchild

March 16th, 2023 at 10:59 AM ^

This is a several year process, but he should go from an 21/16 TO/assist guy to a 28/14 guy, to a 32/12 guy, to a 40/10 guy.

Are we sure we want the men's team to go the women's team's route wrt turnovers?

MGlobules

March 16th, 2023 at 11:05 AM ^

Seems like you guys are knuckling down on the negativity about individual players; might be interesting to think whether, instead of resorting to simple and cliched language, you could find creative ways to talk about deficiencies without considering these young men as pieces of meat. We're already living in a world where people, without any self-awareness whatsoever, are "buying" and "selling" (implicitly, stock in) the descendants of enslaved people; this kind of stupidity, too readily engrained in us, further degrades public discourse and our ability to see one another as people. Bad bench? Dunno. I'd want to take that apart. As people at umhoops have noted repeatedly, almost none of Jett's training to date happened with his father. Sorry to have adopted a negative tone re: hoops reporting of late; it's just not mgoblog's forte. I'll lay out going forward.  

michgoblue

March 16th, 2023 at 11:38 AM ^

I have no idea what you are trying to say or how being critical of individual players relates to bullying or selling stock in descendants of enslaved people. This is a sports blog. What makes it great is the analysis of . . . Sports. There is nothing wrong with the authors giving honest criticism of the players on the team. Nobody said these are bad individuals, called their morality into question or called for them to be bullied. 

4th phase

March 16th, 2023 at 11:24 AM ^

I'd love to be wrong, but Baker applying for a 6th year leads me to believe Jett is gone. His most minutes and his only starts came when Jett was out. Jett sat out the Toledo game, immediately after Baker applies for a 6th year....Seems like they expect Jett to go pro and Baker is a starter next year.

Same scenario applies to Kobe and Llewellyn. Llewellyn applying to come back signals Kobe going pro. Llewellyn would be the starting 2.

Something like Dug-Llewellyn-Baker-Reed-Hunter as starters is what I'm preparing for. If Baker or Llewellyn get denied another year, then maybe some transfers. Probably a bubble team again.

Fezzik

March 16th, 2023 at 1:13 PM ^

Other than needing another guard, why do we want Llwellyn back? In 8 starts he shot 31% FG and 18% from deep. Hard to expect a super senior coming off a season ending injury to suddenly dramatically improve his game. A true freshmen can come in and play equally as good as Llwellyn did.

4th phase

March 16th, 2023 at 1:52 PM ^

Idk I'm not claiming he's the solution. Just that I could see him coming back to start at the 2. He'd likely be a Just a Shooter type. He shot 0.386 on 6 attempts a game at Princeton. It's not hard to imagine him being much better than 18%. The only true freshman guard coming is GW3. I'll try Llewellyn first.

bronxblue

March 16th, 2023 at 2:03 PM ^

I think that's a bit unfair to Llewellyn given he only played 8 games and was an up-transfer playing with a lot of new players both in terms of new to him and new to college basketball.  Dug exceeded my expectations as a true college freshman and he was still a mess for most of the year, doubly so early on.  If you look at the first dozen or so games of guys like Smith and Jones before they all struggled to varying degrees before turning it on to end the year.  Llewellyn isn't going to be a star but I still think another year of him is better than taking a flyer on some true freshman especially since this year's recruiting class is done.  So what you're doing is trading him in for another transfer who'd maybe be an upgrade but could also struggle just as much.

jmblue

March 16th, 2023 at 12:12 PM ^

Jett is literally a coach's son, but not in the way that we usually think of it.  He was never coached by Juwan before this season, and didn't even live with him the three previous years.

BTB grad

March 16th, 2023 at 12:15 PM ^

Juwan was coaching for Michigan, coaching for the Miami Heat, or playing in the NBA for Jett's entire life so he doesn't really fit the usual "coach's son" or "NBA son" as his dad was far too busy for him to be that involved in his basketball training until this season. Like a comment mentioned above, Dylan of umhoops has also reported this. So the whole “this is an embarrassment for Juwan and potential hindrance to his coaching career” is a bit hyperbole.

michgoblue

March 16th, 2023 at 1:55 PM ^

While I don't necessarily blame Juwan for whatever it is with Jett that is leading to what appears to be real issues with fundamentals and effort, I also don't think that it's fair to say that just because Juwan was not Jett's coach throughout his HS years (and was off coaching the Heat and Michigan), that Juwan was not involved in developing his son's game.  Juwan was almost certainly home with Jett for much of the offseason and it is inconceivable that Juwan, a college and NBA star bball player, didn't have any involvement with his son's bball development.  Not saying that Juwan was putting Jett through drills and training, but as his father - again, and a former legitimate basketball star - Juwan certainly had the ability to "coach" Jett on things like defensive and rebounding effort, not being a ball stopper, etc.

bronxblue

March 16th, 2023 at 12:37 PM ^

I'm going to plant my flag that Shrewsberry is going to be one of those coaches who gets overhyped because he had an incredibly old team that then hit a bunch of 3s and won some close games.  He might be a good coach but last year he had something like the 14th oldest team in the country and went 14-17.  The fact he sneaked into the tournament with a late-season run shouldn't be discounted wholly but also interested to see what they do next year when he doesn't have a bunch of adults playing children.

I've ragged on Jett a fair bit but let's not be hyperbolic.  He's a freshman and he's developing into a player.  Juwan, AFAIK, never "coached" him in the same way that a lot of "coach's sons" are, and guys like Pat McCaffery were absolutely unplayable as freshmen despite being sons of coaches.  So don't read too much into any of that.  Jett absolutely will get better with more seasoning, and if focused he could be a plus defender.  My bigger concern with him, honestly, was how much of Just a Shooter he became as the year progressed.  He basically stopped trying to go toward the hoop or draw contact and instead just floated around outside.  Not sure if it was the ankle, being tired, concern about his handle, etc. but he became immensely easier to defend and took away from opportunities to offensive rebound or pick up assists/find open guys as the defense collapsed.

dragonchild

March 16th, 2023 at 1:00 PM ^

Re: Jett, I actually think they're being too reserved.  He's playing like, why did he even show up?

I was taught to box out in seventh grade JV in white suburbia.  That's not hyperbole; that's what happened.  It doesn't even require much effort or skill, just whip your arms out and get in the way!  For anything remotely requiring unselfish effort he's not even playing at the middle school white boy cast-off level.  That is the very definition of losing basketball.  He's not unfocused; he has a serious attitude problem.  It's baffling that the NBA apparently thinks they can fix that, not to mention frustrating, because between the draft projections and Juwan still playing him, he's got every reason to believe he doesn't need to change.  I hope he leaves for the NBA so we don't have to watch him stand around while the team loses.

Between his swollen entitlement and HD's heel antics and most of the team not playing defense, this is the least likeable Michigan team I can remember.  I can accept a down year due to injury or rebuilding, but losing because the most talented players on the team don't enough give a shit and have to be shamed into trying makes these jokers the bad guys.  Michigan gets a lot of blind hate because we're Michigan, but bleach the jerseys and these guys are the kind of team you naturally root against.

Denarded

March 16th, 2023 at 1:17 PM ^

If “he was hurt” is the excuse then why did he still get 30 minutes when he returned? It was obvious the splits of him out Michigan was a better cohesive team. +12 vs MSU after his injury, +13 vs Rutgers, beat Wisconsin. Then he returns and it’s L’s with an embarrassment vs Rutgers. Even some of Jett’s games that he went NBA Jam heat seeking mode they were L’s (@Iowa and @PSU) says something about something. 
 

There’s no way it didn’t affect team chemistry and I think it’s blindingly obvious at this point they’re better off as a team without him. Kobe plays better, they play better defense, the ball moves better. The problem is Juwan being so hard headed on his rotations (waited forever to play Frankie over Jones and TWill over Houstan last year) that is a concern going forward. 

bronxblue

March 16th, 2023 at 2:10 PM ^

I mean, they teach kids of all ethnicities to box out and I'm sure Howard was taught that as well.  I don't know if he's got a "bad attitude"; that feels more based on results on the court vs. some actual proof of being a malcontent.  I have heard rumors that there was turmoil in the lockerroom and maybe that's due to Howard, the dynamics of the team more generally, etc.  But I heard from here numerous times that Dickinson was a bad guy with an attitude problem earlier in the year and then suddenly he started playing like an all-conference player and his "bad attitude" concerns disappeared.  

As for Howard, the lack of effort on defense is alarming and will be an issue wherever he plays, but can also just be a maturation process.  I've watched a lot of middle school white boy cast offs also fail to box out despite what appears to be a militant teaching of it by exasperated dads and moms, and oftentimes it's not because the kids stopped giving a shit.  I do believe he'll learn to rebound and play better defense, especially if he gets another year of physical development.

I agree that some of the guys on the team probably aren't the best hangs, but that's true at a lot of schools.  People around here got around to saying these disliked this team (and last year's team) for any number of reasons but it sure seems like that was based on them losing.  Those Moe Wagner teams weren't all that lovable - Poole, Iggy, and Wagner are just as big of assholes on the court as Dickinson or Howard.  But they won and so people liked them more.  My guess is if Michigan didn't go 3-13 in close games but instead was 6-10 or 7 and 9 and comfortably made the tournament people wouldn't be nearly as annoyed with them even if they didn't change the jerseys.

OldSchoolWolverine

March 17th, 2023 at 12:23 PM ^

What convo with Tschetter ?  He came on the last game a bit.  Has a sweet stroke... he needs confidence.  We want him to stay, period.  He should have redshirted, but I think hes gonna be decent.

And TWill... doesn't seem hes being used right, and or confidence was clipped... need him to be an animal like he was vs Tenn.  I also want him to stay.