was this the right combination? [Marc-Gregor Campredon]

The Center Conundrum: Juwan Howard's Choice vs. Oregon Comment Count

Ace December 17th, 2019 at 12:46 PM

I started fielding hoops mailbag questions for this week—feel free to submit yours by email, tweet, or in the comments—and it became clear I needed to devote a post to the end of the Oregon game. 

Juwan Howard made the bold choice to sit Jon Teske for the final 3:48 of regulation and all of overtime in favor of playing Brandon Johns, in the midst of a breakout game, at center, where he hadn't played any significant time this year. This was a risk, and one that didn't appear to pay off if you're just looking at Oregon guard Peyton Pritchard's production over those final minutes of regulation and OT—he went 6-for-7 from the field and 1-for-3 from the line in that stretch with all 13 of his points coming on drives at Zavier Simpson. Up to that point, Pritchard had shot 5/12 from the field.

The two questions at hand:

Whether you call him X or Z, Zavier Simpson is still Michigan's best option to defend opposing guards, full stop. We have over three years of evidence that he's an elite defender. I'm not going to question the choice to put him on Pritchard. The results weren't good, and Simpson's defense played a role in that, but that doesn't mean the decision was bad. Pritchard is a hell of a player who's stepped up his game this year; he's averaging 19 points and six assists while making 60% of his twos and 39% of his threes, remarkable efficiency for a player with high usage, much of which comes in difficult late-clock situations. 

The big issue, then, is whether putting Johns on the court in place of Teske down the stretch made sense. After going through the end of the game again, I found the choice defensible, and given the way the two had played over the course of the game entirely understandable. I also don't think it burned Michigan on defense as much as it first appeared.

[Hit THE JUMP for moving picture evidence.]

The first bucket with Johns on the floor for the final shift of regulation is a great play by Pritchard as much as anything else. Pritchard turns down a high ball screen at the perfect time to exploit M's drop coverage; Simpson has to shade over him or risk allowing an easy pull-up three behind the screener. Pritchard's inside-out dribble is a great move to threaten taking the screen before quickly attacking the basket, then he double-clutches a finish over Johns:

Maybe Teske gets a better contest on the shot; it's far from a guarantee given how well Pritchard took contact and adjusted his body for the finish. Johns could do a better job of positioning himself in the lane to deter the drive but he still manages a viable block attempt.

Pritchard's next basket comes when he doubles back after taking a screen, gets by Simpson, and hits a running floater. Johns had stopped the initial drive and recovered to his man; there's not much he can do about that shot. Ditto the next Pritchard score, a pure spread isolation on which Simpson hits the deck; if Johns anticipates Simpson getting beat and comes over, Pritchard can slip a pass to his man for a dunk. Pritchard's next point comes at the line when Simpson fouls him on the perimeter, which takes us to the end of regulation.

Pritchard's overtime exploits seemed even less on Johns. Simpson gets beat so quickly to the baseline on Pritchard's opening shot of the extra session that even if Johns comes over it's going to be a layup:

Once again, Johns help would open up a dunk opportunity, too. When the floor is this spread out, allowing blow-bys is going to be trouble.

Pritchard's next basket is on a fast break following a Simpson turnover; X isn't able to get back into the play and David DeJulius provides only token resistance on the way to the rim. The next Pritchard possession is a pick-and-roll that Johns plays beautifully:

Teske couldn't execute that any better.

Pritchard's final basket is another isolation on which he cleanly gets by Simpson. It's unreasonable to expect Johns to anticipate Pritchard getting completely past X in a couple steps. There's no good decision here:

Help and it's a dunk. Don't and maybe Simpson recovers to poke the ball away before a layup. In this case, the worst happened, as X allowed the layup and fouled Pritchard; Michigan was fortunate he missed the free throw.

Looking back, this feels like an uncharacteristically poor performance by Simpson combined with great shot-making from Pritchard. We've also only been evaluating the Teske/Johns decision on one side of the floor so far. Add in the offense and I can see why Howard went with Johns:

  • To get shooting on the floor, take advantage of Johns's offensive rebounding, and maintain sound transition defense, the best option was to play Johns at center. Otherwise Michigan would've been devoting two players, one of whom isn't the fleetest of foot, to crashing the boards, opening up potential fast break buckets for Oregon.
  • Teske had been passive all game, going 1-for-3 from the field with no offensive rebounds in 24 minutes. Johns had four offensive boards in only 22 minutes and had a hand in multiple "team" offensive rebounds (when the ball is knocked out of bounds by the defense, it's credited as a team rebound).
  • In the final moments of regulation, Johns scored four points, two on a possession he kept alive with a rebound and two more on a feed from Simpson to send it to overtime. He had two more offensive boards in overtime, nearly tipping in the second to win the game at the buzzer.

Johns didn't play perfect defense, and it's fair to argue that Teske could've done better on a couple of those baskets. At the same time, Pritchard was simply getting the better of Simpson down the stretch to a degree that was both difficult to predict as a coach and tough to react to as a help defender.

Given what Johns was providing on the boards in a game where Michigan needed every extra possession they could get, I don't fault Howard for going with him down the stretch in a big game. Even though Michigan fell short, Johns played well, and this should add to his growing confidence. That may be the most important thing to come out of this game when we look back at the end of the season.

Comments

dragonchild

December 17th, 2019 at 1:11 PM ^

The point I'm getting at is more that, just looking at the results, it might be that Pritchard has better endurance than Z.  I'm horrible at absolute evaluations but I generally consider "heating up" to be draining shots from looks that weren't falling before, not so much suddenly blowing by the same guy who's been guarding you all game if the latter wasn't tired.

Anyway for the sake of argument let's say I'm right and Pritchard outlasted Simpson, mostly because if Pritchard was flat-out better and it just took him thirty minutes to realize it then there's nothing to be done about it.  Going forward, if the worst problem we have with Z's defense is that you only get ~35 minutes' worth, I mean. . . most coaches would love to be in a position to worry about something like that.  Heck, that's something Howard can plausibly manage -- again, assuming it was a thing.

blueboy

December 18th, 2019 at 6:44 PM ^

Did X guard Pritchard the whole game? If so, that's a pretty tough ask, even for a player as good as Simpson, to guard a high usage player and run the offense for the entirety of a game.

I'm a Bulls fan and during the Tom Thibodeau years, when facing star players like Lebron, Thibs would always try to throw multiple defenders at him over the course of the game. Partially to keep guys fresh and partially so Lebron or whoever would have to adjust to different styles, preventing them from getting comfortable.

I wonder if switching up the assignments and having Brooks or DeJulius cover Pritchard a bit more over the course of the game would've made things tougher for Pritchard and given X a bit more pep in his step towards the end of the game. 

ak47

December 17th, 2019 at 1:23 PM ^

Pritchard played most of the first half with two fouls and got spotty minutes because of it. When they were both on the court in the second half Pritchard was dominating Simpson most of the time. I don't know if it was just a bad matchup or a bad day but at no point did it really feel like Simpson had the better of that matchup.

Edit:

I just went back and looked and this post starts when Teske went out but the defensive issues started well before that. Oregon didn't miss a shot from the floor in the final 8:23 of regulation (there were a couple of turnovers). The defense wasn't a Teske vs. Johns issue which is also why they scored at will for a period in the first half with Teske in. If you want to say there was a coaching flaw I'd say not running more sets for Livers at the end of regulation was the biggest mistake. Its just tough for Howard to draw those sets up because Simpson is a useless off ball player, its tough to draw up sets for too many players when Simpson has to have the ball in his hands.

JonSnow54

December 17th, 2019 at 1:24 PM ^

Great write-up, Ace, I appreciate the thorough analysis and clipping the plays.

I'd prefer for Johns to help more aggressively on most of those plays to force the dish off, because forcing a pass is usually a higher percentage play for the defense (it's easier for the offense to screw up a pass, catch, and dunk sequence than it is to screw up a layup with no help defense) but there are multiple defensive philosophies on that, and that may not be what the staff is asking him to do.

Teske is so good at helping aggressively and seeming to guard both the driver and his own man at once, so I'd agree he would probably be a bit better than Johns there, but these are all minor quibbles - giving up clean penetration is death for a defense.  That's by far the most concerning issue, but it hasn't cropped up much to this point, and I trust Simpson will get back to his usual dominant defensive self.

Scoman169

December 17th, 2019 at 2:05 PM ^

JonSmow54, agree 100%.  I wish the last bucket (the and-1) had been inserted to this post as a video, like the others were.  John's stood there like he never even saw Pritchard.  A hard help should've come simply bc Pritchard was killing us.  You have to make someone else beat you at that point.  

Also, would've liked to see someone with length try to guard Pritchard at some point, although can't argue with trying to ride your best defensive player on him.  

Great analysis, though.  All this said, Pritchard made some really tough shots.  

Kilgore Trout

December 17th, 2019 at 1:54 PM ^

Two thoughts / ideas.

1. Would it have made sense to let someone else have a shot at Pritchard at some point? Maybe Frans or Livers just to change the look?

2. Would it have made sense to have Simpson drop off a bit to encourage Pritchard to take a few threes? He's obviously a good three point shooter, but he was in such a rhythm going to the hoop that I wonder if having him take a few threes would have thrown him off a bit.

Kilgore Trout

December 17th, 2019 at 3:39 PM ^

In most situations I would agree, but when over the course of 9 minutes of game time a guy goes 7-8 from two and 1-2 from the line, that's 1.67 points per possession and I'd say it was a disaster. He would have to go 5-9 from three to equal that, so I don't think it would be unreasonable to change up the philosophy in this specific scenario. 

WolverineMan1988

December 17th, 2019 at 2:01 PM ^

Well done Ace, as always. 

The only thing I would disagree with, and this is nitpicking, is your assertion in the first clip that Johns "manages a viable block attempt."  It's actually what I would call lazy defense by Johns.  He jumps in the air and completely turns his back toward Pritchard and by the time Pritchard releases the ball, all you can see is the back of Johns jersey.  I completely agreed with the decision to play Johns, but this is a specific example where Teske most definitely would have maintained verticality and forced a much tougher shot from Pritchard. Johns essentially bailed on the play and did the old "slap the backboard to make it look like I tried to block it."  I would hope that this is something that gets pointed out to Johns in a film session.

True Blue Grit

December 17th, 2019 at 2:40 PM ^

This has been my theory since watching the game, although I have not heard anything said about it.  Otherwise, I don't understand why such a good and experienced defender and shot blocker was not out there during this critical period - which clearly cost Michigan the game.  

Otherwise, why not put Teske AND Johns out there at the same time, with Johns playing the 4?  I'd rather take the risk of them taking a three vs. having layup after layup.  

Also, why are we not trying to draw more charges?  When guys start doing these drives into the paint constantly, one way Beilein would deal with it is having guys get in the way of them.  We needed to do something, and the frustrating thing was just seeing it happen on every trip for Oregon.  

ak47

December 17th, 2019 at 3:23 PM ^

Are you just ignoring the first 35 minutes were Oregon was also scoring consistently with Teske out there? Oregon didn't miss from the field from the eight minute mark and Teske was in there for the first 4 minutes of that. If your guards get beat cleanly on the perimeter against a team that can effectively space the floor you aren't going to stop them. Bringing in Teske would have heart the offense and not fixed the defense, it didn't make any sense to do

TrueBlue2003

December 18th, 2019 at 12:57 AM ^

Oregon scored 22 points in the first 10 minutes of the game when Michigan decided they wouldn't try to guard a 50% 3pt shooter / forgot the scouting report (?).

Then they only scored 28 points in the next 24 minutes.  That's an extended period of time scoring barely over a point a minute.  That's very bad for Oregon and excellent D by Michigan.  Admittedly Johns was in for a good portion of that with Teske in foul trouble / on the bench.

But then Oregon scored 21 in the last 11ish minutes when they simply went iso with Pritchard. And hats off to Pritchard for taking over.  Teske wouldn't have been able to do something about some of that but Johns missed a few rotations that he needed to make.

AC1997

December 17th, 2019 at 2:12 PM ^

My comments are similar to others.  In general I think your conclusion is supported by what you saw - Teske was having an off-game offensively and on the boards, Johns didn't do anything terrible on D, Pritchard gets a tip of the cap, X was not his usual defensive self.....

But a couple of follow-up thoughts from me:

  • I do think Teske would have done better in some situations because of his ability to guard both men.  He can dissuade the pass and still contest shots as well as anyone.  Johns was "fine" but that advanced defensive instinct, especially at center, isn't there.  
  • I agree that Simpson is our best perimeter defender and should get first crack at any opponent.  I also know that last year they would have put Matthews on him late in the game, especially when X kept getting toasted so easily.  So I think a play or two with Brooks or Livers would have been worth a shot.  
  • I think Oregon, per UM Hoops, changed their offense late in the game to iso and ball-screen Pritchard more than they had early in the second half.  Perhaps we didn't react well enough
  • I do think Simpson's defense has slipped these past two years from his Sophomore year elite status.  I think that's a direct relationship with the amount he's doing on offense.  He's playing 30-35 minutes, the entire offense runs through him, he's getting an elite defender on the other end, etc.  Something to think about if this comes up again.

Needs

December 17th, 2019 at 2:38 PM ^

I wonder if it would have made sense to go offense/defense with Johns and Teske down the stretch, particularly when Pritchard seemed to be getting to the rim regularly. I know that doesn't happen nearly as much in college as it does in the NBA, but UM had enough TOs to make it work. 

The conversation around this game is incredibly different if the last shot goes, though. If it does, then we're probably talking about the new lineup flexibility that Johns's breakout allows and Franz beginning to find his groove. 

Scoman169

December 17th, 2019 at 2:56 PM ^

I said the same thing in a thread as far as going offense Johns and defense Teske.  It will be interesting to see what happens next time we are in a close game, although it could change based on opponent.  Oregon was really athletic, so I get going with John's for that reason. 

Bodogblog

December 17th, 2019 at 2:41 PM ^

You say if he helps it's a dunk, but that assumes Pritchard gets the pass through Simpson and Johns.  If both are concerned about his drive I'm sure that's much easier, but it seems less a foregone conclusion than allowing him unimpeded access to the basket to go over Simpson.  Or maybe the scoring probabilities are the same, but it seems like if the choice is to pass through two defenders (who are admittedly occupied with stopping a shot, but are still closing on the passer/shooter) or allow a fairly uncontested shot or path to the basket on or over Simpson, the former is more difficult to execute. 

Also, what does this mean going forward?  Are we going to see more of Johns at the 5?  If yes, then what was with all the offseason talk about Johns getting to move back to his more natural position (i.e. not having to play the 5).  Not pointing you out specifically Ace, but that was a thing. 

TrueBlue2003

December 17th, 2019 at 2:58 PM ^

This is exactly correct.  Help defense is meant to stop the clearest (and highest probability) threat.  The ball scores.  You have to come over and help and force a pass to be made instead of giving up an easy layup.

Your assumption, Ace, that help = dunk is not necessarily correct.

On a couple of these Johns had a clear responsibility to help and he's big and long and 1) could deflect a pass or 2) if the pass gets through, help could/should be coming on a rotation to deny the pass to the recipient or at least defend the dunk/shot.  See your last screen shot for an example of the latter.  If Johns helps, Livers steps around to deter or intercept the pass or defend the recipient.  That's exactly how help defense works.

You have to negate the 95% chance to give up an 80% chance.

ESPECIALLY given the game situation.  Pritchard was in hero ball mode.  He wasn't looking to pass much.  On the play Johns switched on the pick and got the stop, Pritchard had the roller but was dead set on challenging Johns.  That could have been the case on other help situations and you have to find out.

Johns played great on offense down the stretch and I don't know that having him was the reason for the loss but he's not as sound on his rotations as Teske and still has to learn when to go and when not to go. 

I also think the coaching staff is probably coaching them to be too risk averse with their help here.  And I think this is from having an NBA mindset, similar to them being too averse to threes.  In the NBA, the players are so good that help does mean dunk with probably 95% likelihood because the ball handlers are less likely to make a bad pass and the bigs are more likely to catch and finish and the help from the perimeter is less likely to come on the rotation because the corner gunner is further away (and a better shooter that needs to be guarded more closely).

But in college, if you extend plays and create more havoc the offense is more likely to make a mistake than in the NBA.

Alumnus93

December 17th, 2019 at 4:41 PM ^

I don't know enough about basketball to understand why not play both Teske and John's at same time, down the stretch of that game.  

TrueBlue2003

December 17th, 2019 at 9:22 PM ^

Well, you can only play 5 guys, only three of which could potentially sit in favor of Johns.  Livers is untouchable.  Wagner would be the only other option to sit if you want to play Johns and Teske.  Wagner was playing an excellent second half.

The reality is that Johns played well while Teske was in foul trouble and was a spark for the come back.  Teske came back in and immediately drew a foul, hit both free throws and then finished off a pick and roll so he was playing well too. I was surprised Johns came back in and Juwan maybe should have quit while he was ahead but that's hindsight speaking.  It's not certain it was the wrong choice because Johns did play well on offense such that it maybe offset some plays that Teske probably would have defended better.

orbob

December 17th, 2019 at 5:13 PM ^

I disagree. The O bigs had difficulty handling dishes. And Pritchard is an AA type and get the ball out of his hands. and, as we saw dunks aren't automatic.

93Grad

December 18th, 2019 at 1:46 PM ^

Sorry, but I just don't buy that there was nothing that could be done to stop Pritchard from scoring every single time down the stretch.  Of course there are trade offs in having Johns or Teske slide over to help, but you just can't let a guy beat you over and over and over and over and over and over down the stretch like that.  

maquih

December 18th, 2019 at 3:02 PM ^

Not to invalidate a lot of writing and effort, but I'm pretty certain Teske was just gassed and/or under the weather.  There's no way in East Lansing a fully healthy and rested Teske sits down the stretch in a big game.

WestQuad1982

December 18th, 2019 at 4:07 PM ^

Ace: Why can't we play Johns & Teske at the same time? What am I missing?

I see advantages in a line up that has Teske (5), Johns (4), and Wagner (3). Think of the shoot blocking and rebounding that would give us. Then you'd have Livers and Brooks alternate at the 2.

Does anybody think Livers is a genuine 4? I love the guy, class act, but we've seen him for 2+ years now, exactly what part of his game says "small forward"? Isn't he a shooting guard who happens to be on the tall side. (Not a bad thing.)

There's some reason we aren't doing this. Enlighten us.

 

 

blueboy

December 18th, 2019 at 6:48 PM ^

I think that playing Johns and Teske for periods of time is certainly a viable option. But those lineups will have inferior spacing compared to lineups with Livers at the 4. 

It's fundamentally a tradeoff between having another dangerous shooter/ballhandler out there vs. having another big guy who can grab boards.

At the end of the day, you want the best 5 players out there. That's probably Simpson, Livers, Teske and then Brooks, DeJulius, Franz and Johns are competing hard for the last 2 spots.

 

DMZBlue

December 18th, 2019 at 6:53 PM ^

They cleared out to give Pritchard 1v1 on Z and without any help (or late help); even a great defender like Z is going to struggle without backside help.

In that situation, I'm not sure how you can justify sitting your 7 foot senior who is one of the better pick and roll defenders in college basketball for a guy who was giving them great energy, but isn't nearly as nuanced a defensive player as Teske.  

I'll reserve my judgement, but that decision baffles me.