Integrity is worth more than Les Miles
January 7th, 2011 at 3:52 PM ^
Is it possible that the Big 10 signing rules (whatever they are, ESPN mentioned them in that piece), could keep Miles from cutting kids? He wouldn't be allowed to go outside those rules.
January 7th, 2011 at 4:02 PM ^
The Big Ten does have rules against over-recruiting and then cutting. It has a strick 25 sch.per class policy, even when you lose players to transfers. This also includes any JUCO transfers and transfers from other colleges. With those rules and his love for the way Bo ran things I think he would be fine.
Also, this is simply the way things are done in the SEC, because they permit it. I mean at least he is not trying to buy Cam Newton.
Les is the guy for the job in my mind now that Harbaugh is out. He is a guy that can recruit and win immediately.
January 7th, 2011 at 4:40 PM ^
Ah, so the "everybody is doing it" defense.
Just because it is the norm in the SEC doesn't mean some coach couldn't have taken a moral stand and said "no, I will not lie and betray 18-22 year old kids."
Les had a chance to do that and be a leader - instead, he's just a follower. As cheesy as this will sound... At Michigan I want a leader not just someone who wins games.
January 7th, 2011 at 5:57 PM ^
Get off your high horse. If you are a head coach at a high profile D-1 school and want to keep your job, you have to win. And in the SEC, if you want to win, you need to play by the established rules. Could he have taken the high road and done it the "right way"? Sure. But it is likely he would have lost several more games and it would have cost him his job.
It is hard to be a leader if you are putting your career in jeopardy. Why should he play role of martyr?
January 7th, 2011 at 9:29 PM ^
So you think it's fine to cut these kids whose parents he's looked in the eye and promised an education, football and an environment that would look after their son's best interests? I mean come on man, once you've lost your word you don't have much left.
January 7th, 2011 at 4:15 PM ^
If we expect every coach that comes to Michigan to be a saint than we will turn into Notre Dame. An old coworker of mine in Baton Rouge is close friends with Miles and his family. He says that they are good honest people.
January 7th, 2011 at 4:23 PM ^
Sorry, I'll trust Miles' actions towards his players to be a better judge of his character than an "old co-worker" of yours.
January 7th, 2011 at 4:45 PM ^
Given the "sanctions" against UM over the past couple of years stemming from some pissed off players, can't we at least acknowledge that A) there are multiple sides to stories and B) just because an issue is brought forth to the news doesn't mean that the coach is an awful person and that every other program in the country doesn't do the same thing?
January 7th, 2011 at 4:49 PM ^
Every other team in the country does not do that, because the University of Michigan does not do that. Stretching too much is mildly different from cutting freshmen from the team right before the season starts. Recruiting way more players than you have slots for... really doesn't leave much room for interpretation; it's just shitty.
January 7th, 2011 at 4:47 PM ^
Rodriguez had "questionable" character at West Virginia but was damn near a saint once he got here. Miles wouldn't be allowed to oversign here. I don't care about how someone acted in the past, as long as they represent U-M well. I believe that Les Miles can do that and would be willing to change his opinion on "cutting" players should he come here.
January 7th, 2011 at 4:50 PM ^
What players did Rodriguez screw over at WVU?
January 7th, 2011 at 6:33 PM ^
grumble grumble grumble "Pacman Jones" grumble grumble grumble
January 7th, 2011 at 4:55 PM ^
I want Michigan football to be fun. (Winning is a big part of making it so, but not the only part.) I'm wary of the oversigning stuff, but perhaps it is not a pattern, or something that would happen here. On everything else, Les "Phewer" Miles would make Michigna football fun.
January 7th, 2011 at 5:21 PM ^
Of course, talk of Miles brings a slew of brand new posters to the board.
Miles is literally the only feasible candidate they could hire that would anger me. I think he, Saban, and Houston Nutt are the only three coaches I'd reject out of hand, as I think they're the three largest pieces of shit in NCAA football.
Hire Miles, I buy Northwestern Tickets. I would not watch a game he was on the sidelines.
January 7th, 2011 at 5:59 PM ^
That would help with that three-year backlog of season ticket requests.
January 8th, 2011 at 12:19 AM ^
Every know-nothing, no morals, just started posting fan are the one's saying "Miles slimes kids, but wins!!", and it's all the established posters saying "Uhm, at Michigan that's not how we do it".
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<br>Ok, it's not that amazing.
January 7th, 2011 at 5:32 PM ^
If you don't want Miles and I understand the arguments against him and by no means am I defending him and you do not want Hoke....what options are left? Patterson, maybe but not holding my breath, plus not a "Michigan Man" whatever the eff that means. Face it, we need a coach who wants to be here. Harbaugh...nope, Fitzgerald...nope, Patterson....?, what other options do we have left?
I hear many names such as Gruden, Stoops, Peterson and Whittingham but not likely. It is time to find someone who wants to actually coach here and quit chasing pipe dreams.
January 7th, 2011 at 7:08 PM ^
Are you under the impression that Michigan couldn't sign 35 kids if we wanted to?
January 8th, 2011 at 12:17 AM ^
Nope. I'm sure we could if we wanted to. Not the point of my post.
January 7th, 2011 at 7:51 PM ^
I'd take hoke a million times before I'd consider Miles. Football is a GAME at the end of the day. These kids should not be collateral damage due to a desire to win games.
January 8th, 2011 at 12:28 AM ^
I agree with you....kids should be made into men while playing a great game. Many coaches do that well.....RR seemed to do that well but he did not win enough, so he is out the door. Now we are looking again for a coach to be the leader of men and win football games and unfortunately, we do not have many viable choices who want to coach here. It speaks to me on how the head coaching job is lookied at without the maize and blue colored glasses we all wear.
I hope we find the right fit and that is all. Be it Hoke, Miles, Patterson or any other random coach that has been thrown out on this blog the last couple of days.
January 7th, 2011 at 5:35 PM ^
Please just hire Hoke and get it over with. I have no desire to live through season of M fans mocking our coach for not being a "Michigan Man" and not observing every damn Michigan tradition to the tits.
Hire Hoke and give him a blank checkbook to hire the best assistants money can buy. If we can't inspire recruits with our coach, let's just dazzle with with our staff.
Go Blue, OK?
January 7th, 2011 at 6:17 PM ^
All of this "red flag" garbage is coming from the LC contingent at UM. Get a grip, it's 2011... if you think the baggage Les brings with him is the worst stuff out there, you are sorely naive and even more pathetically ignorant.
Les Miles is a proven winner who his players would run through a brick wall for. He's won a national championship, and fought back tears the last time he almost became our head coach. (Which would have happened if not for the background BS from Lloyd Carr and the ineptitude of Bill Martin.)
This is the #1 problem with Michigan fans--they want to win with some messiah from the heavens who has never said a bad word in their life or yelled at a player or cut a player or said anything controversial. There's a place where that exists--Candyland--you all can have fun there.
I can't wait for Les Miles to come on board so we can run a train through Ohio State, bring the pride back to Michigan, and turn the tables on them. GO BLUE.
January 7th, 2011 at 6:25 PM ^
I'll preface this by saying that I don't know Lloyd Carr, nor am I part of his apparently large, complex, mud slinging apparatus, nor am I connected to it:
Les Miles is scum. He oversigns kids, cuts them from the team, doesn't tell them about, then refuses to hold a conversation with them about it when they find out. He has presided over more than one academic scandal. He has only the faintest grasp on end-of-game clock management, and has a long history of mind-numbingly terrible end of game decisions. College sports are for those playing them more than the rest of us - someone who treats his players that poorly is morally unsuitable to be a college coach. If he were the coach of my alma mater, I would be ashamed.
January 7th, 2011 at 6:48 PM ^
Yes, I can count on one hand the number of end-game issues he mismanaged. I can also count on my entire families hands the number of wins he has.
For every end of game management issue you bring up, I can match with either The Horror, The Weekend Following The Horror and games of "playing not to lose".
Miles is the best coach for Michigan right now that is seemingly interested and has the pedigree to return us to the "leaders and best".
I ask any doubters to submit the name of a better coach that is willing to come here that hasn't already declined to discuss it or hasn't signed with an NFL team.
January 7th, 2011 at 6:53 PM ^
I see the slurping of Miles has begun.
January 7th, 2011 at 7:00 PM ^
Is Lloyd Carr a candidate for the job? No? Did I endorse Carr? No?
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<br>Then what is the relevance of a thing you have said?
January 7th, 2011 at 9:32 PM ^
...was that most coaches have an issue that can be brought up as a negative.
I chose Carr because most agree that he did a great job at Michigan but he too had a few bad moments, as I mentioned above.
Given their individual gaffs:
Lloyd was 122-40 at Michigan with a winning percentage of 75% and a National Championship.
Miles is 61-17 at LSU with a winning percentage of 78% and a National Championship.
With those winning percentages, it's easy to overlook both of their game mismanagement issues.
January 7th, 2011 at 6:33 PM ^
while at WVU. Rich didn't even boot him. How's that for integrity. How do I know this? My best friend was the team manager there for 4 years. What's my point? Every coach has skeletons in their closet. Get over yourself. This program is dying and we need a winner.
Les over signs because everyone in the conference does. He wouldn't do that here. He prob won't get to coach here because of the uppity attitude of our fanbase in the first place.
January 7th, 2011 at 6:42 PM ^
"ethical when required" is not the same thing as "ethical".
January 7th, 2011 at 7:07 PM ^
Chitown has hit the nail on the head.
I find it funny that the Miles to Michigan Mafia want Les because he is a, "Michigan Man," while at the same time, overlooking the volumes of slimy and underhanded things he has done in his career that spit in the face of what it supposedly means to be a, "Michigan Man."
January 7th, 2011 at 9:18 PM ^
Volumes of slime is naive and an overstatement. We as fans insist on winning records, B10 Championships and occasional national championships. Then when we find out how the sausage is made we say "oh no, not us." I'm sorry, but this is so naive. If you want a winning program, hire a winner. Les Miles is a winner. Please understand, I am not condoning breaking rules, but oversigning in the SEC is not breaking the rules. Change the rules (they are). Blame the SEC, not Miles. He has just done what he was supposed to do, and what we crave. He has won buckets of games.
January 8th, 2011 at 12:23 AM ^
Even if it means you screw over your players that the program is supposed to be about. Bo would punch you in the nards.
January 7th, 2011 at 6:56 PM ^
Haha this has to be a joke..
LM cuts kids because TOO MANY WANT TO PlAY FOR HIM. I am sure that kids and their parents know, or should know that they're kid could get cut. And here's some bitter 18-21 year old saying Les didn't even talk to me and everyone assumes its a fact. But when Boren transfers and calls out Michigan/RR everyone calls the kid an idoit and dismisses his comments..Nice double standard.
That being said, Les Miles coming to Michigan is exactly what this program needs.
January 7th, 2011 at 10:02 PM ^
"LM cuts kids because TOO MANY WANT TO PlAY FOR HIM."
Les Miles cuts kids because they sign more than 25 on signing day, which is an irresponsible practice, since they are required to have less than 25 scholarships handed out per class. They know this. It's an egregious practice that is completely incumbent upon the head coach.
You're a fool if you think there aren't "too many kids who want to play for UM." We don't sign more than 25 per class, period.
January 7th, 2011 at 10:33 PM ^
Our current recruiting class is overflowing with the opportunity to play for MIiiichigan...
Get real. Yes its a terrible practice and I feel awful for the kid, but a coach adapts to his surroundings. It was perfectly acceptable practice in the SEC, and as we all know that conference is brutal to win week in and week out. I truly believe he'd have no problem with that in Michigan, if he came.
January 7th, 2011 at 10:49 PM ^
"I truly believe he'd have no problem with that in Michigan, if he came."
Then you're desperate and naive.
Our current recruiting class is not a fair comparison, for that matter, since we're in the midst of a coaching search. Come on.
January 7th, 2011 at 11:25 PM ^
Every year thousands of student althetes from football to tennis lose their scholarships or are cut. It is the coaches job to recruit players and if they are determined to be good enough, offer them scholarships. From there it is the athletes responsiblity to EARN and up hold their end of the deal. If the coach believes the player is underachiveing or has limited potential their offer is pulled. Bottom line is, playing in a cut throat conference like the SEC, there is a good chance this could happen.
And as far as Michigan, of course thousands of kids want to play for Michigan. But how do you know we don't sign 25+? Oh thats right because were Michigan and we don't do anything wrong. A few years ago we could say "Michigan never practices more than the allowed time"
January 7th, 2011 at 11:51 PM ^
Thousands? Um, okay, can you verify these absurd stats you are throwing around?
I guarantee you there are not "thousands" of full-ride scholar-athletes that lose their scholarship every year to reasons other than:
- Graduation
- Choosing to leave school (that is, the student-athlete choosing)
- Serious injury
- Choosing to not continue playing the sport
- Breaking a code of conduct that carries the penalty of loss of scholarship
I'd bet anything that in sports other than football and basketball the scholarship "pull" is almost non-existant.
January 8th, 2011 at 12:09 AM ^
Hrmm maybe I should have been more explicit, the lost of scholies/status with the team was for all the reasons you just stated and some additional ones..And of course I don't have a fact to back up "thousands" that was simply a figuritve speech, take a deep breath.
January 7th, 2011 at 11:55 PM ^
You would be getting a -1.
January 8th, 2011 at 12:12 AM ^
Not that I would care, (or even notice), but I still have to ask why?
January 8th, 2011 at 12:28 AM ^
You have no morals, don't understand Michigan Football at all, and everyone would be better served if you went to root for another team that would make you happier. Saban and Alabama are probably right up your alley. Win a lot, cheat a lot, don't care about their student-athletes. You'll be much happier with them.
January 8th, 2011 at 12:42 AM ^
Haha rightttt. Show me where I said I don't care about student athletes and let me know when you do. I simply stated a fact, countless athletes lose scholarships or are cut for many reasons. Plus you're in a conference where it is widely done. These reasons would lead a coach to over-sign. Not saying its right, and sure I feel bad for the kid who gets left out, but it happens. And worse yet, it may even be happening here or may happen at some point (which is why i referenced the practice violations).
And as far as not understanding M football (or other Michigan sports), I've watched the team my whole life, scarped pennies through college to watch them play, followed them around the country, and haven't doubted my loyalty to the team even in the darkest of days. I could go on but I know I'm preaching to the choir, I mean look at some of these posts counts ;) ..Michigan football is about winning, and doing it with pride and class. All three things I believe can be done with Miles (assuming he drops the oversigning antics), however if he's not hired I hope the next man can get it done. Now let's make it happen DB.
Thank you, nice try, and come back soon.
January 8th, 2011 at 2:06 AM ^
If a kid is screwed over, oh well, that's how they do it in the SEC. And you may have been watching Michigan, but you weren't listening. Bo wouldn't have allowed it, neither would have Lloyd. Just because you don't know if Michigan did stuff like that or not doesn't mean it happened, it just means you're ignorant to how the program was run. Yeah, I get it. You want to brag to all your buddies that the team you follow is winning. But you don't care about the program beyond that, but those that care about the program knows it means more than that. So it just seems you'd be happier with one of those SEC teams that are one that screws over "thousands" of student athletes, because that's how they roll, but win all the time. You'll be happier, and Michigan fans won't have people happy to corrupt their program for a few more wins. Bye.
January 8th, 2011 at 10:11 AM ^
You're responses are riddled with holes and cheap insults, all of which I have already adressed (on multiple posts). At this point your responses are like a broken record, stating the same old lines over and over despite already being addressed.
Yes I care about wins, after all who would want to win two games a year?? And equally as much, I care about integrity.
Living in Ohio I've been enjoying the whole tattoo-gate but the response is the same "at least we win". Sure that's a shitty attitude, and a blackeye on tOSU. So in a sense, they've got 1 of the 2 things right. But how nice would it be for Buckeye fans to have nothing to say because Les/Hoke/whoever is killing them AND doing it with class?? Thats what I want to see, not winning without class, not losing but being classy, winning and doing it with class.
And please, I have stated over and over I love this program and University, but that doesn't mean I don't have the right to CONSTRUCTIVELY criticize it or as you say, go cheer on an SEC team. I don't want to see kids get cut. I do want to see this team (and other programs) win, but win in a manner which Llyod or Bo would approve as you said. If you plan on responding with the same old song and dance you've been saying to me all night, don't waste your time, I've addressed it enough.
January 8th, 2011 at 10:12 AM ^
Double-post-palooza!!1!!1
January 7th, 2011 at 6:57 PM ^
People defending Miles keep saying that everyone does it. Not true. They screw their players over in the spring or summer, when there's time to react. Screwing someone over after they move into the dorm, so they're really hosed...Miles owns that trick. That's probably why the video is about him and not someone else.
...and not being willing to man-up and speak with his players about it is a classy touch.
January 7th, 2011 at 9:24 PM ^
Come on. Miles coaches in the SEC, the most competitive conference in the country and he wins. That conference permitted oversigning. Want to compete with Tressel? Want to beat Dantonio? Really? You sure?
January 7th, 2011 at 11:12 PM ^
As much as I think Brandon is screwing the pooch from a timing standpoint, he clearly understands that being the head football coach at Michigan is MORE than just about wins, or beating OSU. Sorry to break that to you.
You sound like you'd be much happier being an SEC fan. Go for it!