cc: Brady Hoke - opinions?
Since the assumption seems to be that RR is gone, and Harbaugh is going to have a tough decision between M and the NFL, it is a non-zero possibility that we will end up with Coach Brady Hoke. I have always liked BH (as I will now refer to him). From his days in the mid-1990s, the guys I knew on the team loved him. Seems that his current players do, as well.
His rep is as a good to very good recruiter. And, while I think that the whole Michigan MAn thing was blown way out of proportion with RR, in these times of a factured fan base, having someone with ties to better times couldn't hurt.
But, the common opinion on this board is Hoke = DOOM, please no.
Can anyone please tell me the reasons that Hoke wouldn't be a good choice?
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:55 AM ^
like who? The only one that sticks out is Les Miles off the top of my head.
Mack Brown I don't think will coach after Texas and there's zero reason for him to leave.
I'd rather keep RR than go with Big Game Bob.
Urban Meyer could become the Brett Favre of CFB coaches and TBH I'm not entirely opposed to him coming here.
I honestly can't think of another big name candidate. Maybe Randy Edsall?
Looking at non-CFB guys we have Gruden. Call it retarded but I love him too much on MNF. I listened to him today without Jaws for a bit and he's so much better. But he turned down fun in the sun and a low pressure job at Miami. Why he would come here, I have no idea.
Dungy would be awesome and a local guy but that's never gonna happen.
January 2nd, 2011 at 3:03 AM ^
If DB doesn't have his plan completely mapped out after a month of preparation, then he is just as culpable as RR is for M's poor preparation for yesterday's bowl game. If DB is not 95+% certain right now as to what is going to happen, then he is a failed executive. But I don't think he is.
January 1st, 2011 at 11:46 PM ^
Because he has ties to Lloyd, so gosh, all his staff was so laughable, because DeBord wasn't great, so they all must have been yuk yuk. But not all coaches have the same rep. If you're saying Harbaugh or Hoke (which, really, is ANYBODY?) then sure Harbaugh has done more. For the same reason, if you really feel like going that way (you meaning Brandon) there's probably not much reason not to stick with Rich another year, see if his track record pre-Michigan can finally show up at Michigan, and if you still want Brady, get him then. He, unlike Harbaugh, will be available. If for some reason you think the situation with Rich is untenable, because of what you've seen behind the scenes, and JH doesn't want to come here, for whatever reason, then he's a real candidate. Would we bet better off trying to get a Patterson, or someone like that? Sure. But as we saw last time, and from many a ND coaching search, writing a big check doesn't mean you automatically steal some other name coach. If that doesn't work, we could do worse than Hoke. The truth is, nobody knows how any of these guys will do, because everyone thought Rich Rod was a knock it out of the park pick, and it's been 3 disastrous years. So who knows?
January 1st, 2011 at 11:49 PM ^
Randy Edsall should be getting some love IMO.
January 1st, 2011 at 11:59 PM ^
I see what you're getting at with the way his team is playing tonight, but I can't get past the image of his team getting pasted in the Big House a few months ago.
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:30 AM ^
Randy Edsall and the other UCONN coaches didn't have the benefit of film on Denard 2.0, (they would have probably been better served had they watched film of RR coaching Pat White). Later "good teams" pretty well found a way to at least slow Denard, and make him less effective.
January 1st, 2011 at 11:53 PM ^
In all honesty, I think the biggest reason this board widely feels that Hoke = DOOM is because Brian said so.
Hoke has a better resume then Moeller or Carr did when they got the job. His trajectory at the jobs he's had is very similar to those of Harbaugh and Rodriguez. Take over a down trodden team, struggle for a year and then start to make serious progress towards upper echelon conference finishes / titles. Hoke has done it twice at FBS schools where Harbaugh and Rodriguez have done it once, but also have success at lower level schools. The thing separating Harbaugh / Rodriguez and Hoke is that the former have done it in a BCS conference.
Are there other "big names" out there that would be better than Hoke? Probably, but to write him off as a ridiculous possibility doesn't really make any sense to me.
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:24 AM ^
It took five seasons for Hoke to field a winning team at Ball State (7-6). No doubt SDSU had a nice 2010 season, though.
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:34 AM ^
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:06 PM ^
In Hoke's sixth (and final) season, Ball State went 12-1 under his direction, winning 12 straight before losing to Buffalo in the MAC Championship Game. He then left for SDSU before BSU's bowl game (which they lost).
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:26 AM ^
His actual record is why he shouldn't be a viable candidate. Yet.
January 2nd, 2011 at 2:31 AM ^
In all honesty, I think the biggest reason this board widely feels that Hoke = DOOM is because Brian said so.
Bullshit.
Yes, it's very annoying when the board tries to parrot all of Brian's opinions. But Hoke = DOOM is so obvious that I seriously doubt Cook's take has had any effect on most. You'd have to be very dense or a true Michigan Man snob to think that Brady Hoke would be an acceptable hire here.
The debate about him should begin and end with the fact that he has a losing record in eight years of coaching non-AQ schools.
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:50 AM ^
January 1st, 2011 at 11:57 PM ^
He would not have a clue on how to use our current roster. The next three years would make the last three seem like a stroll through Disney World.
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:11 AM ^
He wouldn't know how to use a successful offensive line with four returning starters? He wouldn't know how to use two quarterbacks with a year of starting experience or another who was considered the top QB in his high school class? He wouldn't know how to use four receivers (two of the slot and two of the outside variety) with multiple years of experience? Maybe you were saying that he won't be able to match the defensive output of the last three years?
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:23 AM ^
To be very clear and plain, he would have no clue how to use Denard or any of the myriad offensive weapons that we have acquired and trained for the past three years to run the spread offense. It is agreed by all that the defense is a rebuild at this point. With Hoke, the offense would be as well as it is retooled to run schemes that Hoke comrehends.
At least with Harbaugh, I believe he would be able to use the weapons available to him on offense in a coherent manner.
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:29 AM ^
I'm not sure our current staff knows how to use them.
January 2nd, 2011 at 8:53 AM ^
Even if we played D, 14 points will not cut it. Whenever, we ran into a good D the Offense disappeared. Case closed.
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:09 PM ^
Roy Roundtree singlehandedly made sure it was only 14 points by dropping two of the most insanely easy passes I have ever seen. Not that it would have changed the game's outcome, but still, just sayin'.
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:01 AM ^
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:33 AM ^
SDSU was a spread team before Hoke took over including their 2008 season. Y1 with Hoke was 4-8 with shitty players left over from Chuck Long. Y2 was this year's 8-4 making Hoke 13-12 (including bowl game) with a former spread offense. I think he could do the same or better with higher caliber athletes.
Being a good head coach is more about getting the players and personnel in place to win than x's and o's imho. X's aand O's are the coordinator and position guys. This is why I think of RR as a great OC and a head-coach-in-training. Shafer has gotten it done before and after AA. GERG was fail before and has certainly been fail at AA.
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:46 AM ^
No offense, but I am not looking to 4-8 for next season. That would be unacceptable. I would rather proceed with RR, and a new defensive coordinator who is allowed to bring in his own position coaches.
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:59 AM ^
I don't think anybody goes 4-8 with the athletes we have (or may have). That was the point of my post. I don't think just because we change systems we go back to that again. Hoke transitioning SDSU from the spread shows that he has experience doing just that and it wouldn't be 4-8 again.
I think with a good coach not named RR we go 6-6 or 7-5 with the kids we have now...assuming the DC doesn't have a flowing maine of perfect hair.
January 2nd, 2011 at 1:39 AM ^
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I think 4-8 is probably a good estimate of what you would get out of him if he tried to transform this team next year to his system. In other words, disaster. He would have better talent at his disposal, but would be up against much more severe competition that he is used to at SDSU or Ball St.
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:03 AM ^
January 2nd, 2011 at 1:39 AM ^
Coach Rodriguez, is that you? Man, no wonder your teams underperform - you spend way too much time posting here.
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:08 AM ^
First of all, Tom Brady, despite my man crush on him, was not all that in HS. IIRC, he wasn't exactly a prized recruit.
Gene Chizik was also on the Auburn staff that went undefeated and got hosed out of a chance to play for the NC. He also co-DCed (along with GERG I believe?) the 2005 Texas sqaud. Despite his failures at ISU (it's ISU for crissakes, how they're in a BCS conference I don't know) he had a damn fine resume. As for the whole Cam Newton ordeal, you still have to get out there every gameday and execute. All the money in the world can't make you do that.
That said, I'm hesitant to give Hoke the job. I don't know enough about him or his offensive schemes but I'd rather give RR and Denard with another year under the belt a shot before him.
January 2nd, 2011 at 1:41 AM ^
Brady was something like the #10 pro-style QB in the country in one of the rankings. He probably would have been a four-star recruit in today's system.
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:53 PM ^
link or am I supposed to take that at face?
January 3rd, 2011 at 3:45 AM ^
You're supposed to just know that Brady was the equivalent of a four star back then.
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:10 AM ^
He left his alma mater, a place where he was successful and loved. He gave that up to be a part of something bigger. RRod is a Michigan Man.
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:38 AM ^
would take responsibility for his errors and deficiencies. RR has not ever, not once, done that. There are problems with execution. There are problems with the defense. There are oh so many problems that have nothing to do with he or his vaunted offensive staff.
I am sick of it.
I think the reason Brandon says Beilein is a stand up guy, is that Beilien is a stand up guy. He takes responsibility when it's necessary. He's innovative, but responsible. He understands offense and defense. Granted, easier in basketball than football.
Rodriguez is the opposite. He accepts no personal responsibility. He's a decent coach. He's a great offensive coordinator. Of all the football teams in America, we are maybe the last program that can afford an offensive coordinator as its head coach.
A head coach, must and will be, more than gap blocking assignments on the o line. It's about the team. The Team. THE TEAM.
Where does the THE TEAM include the coach blaming players every tough game about the lack of execution? Maybe a couple times. Maybe a game or two. Its every stinkin' game we lose.
Good luck at Clemson. I wish you well.
I look forward to the Fighting Harbaughs next year.
January 2nd, 2011 at 1:15 AM ^
Players seem to love him and respect him. Do you know some gushy details about RR that the rest of us don't know? Does he eat aborted fetuses for dinner? Does he tell his players that if they don't perform "he'll send them back to the ghetto to get shot like their homies"?
January 2nd, 2011 at 1:43 AM ^
Well, some players love and respect him. Many of the others transfer.
January 2nd, 2011 at 1:54 AM ^
I would not reduce it to "some". A handful of transfers out of 85 scholarship players does not mean only some love him.
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:32 AM ^
about RR's sincerity to his players or their appreciation for him. Look, every team loves its coach, and vice versa. But look at the rest of the job. This is a CEO position for all intents and purposes. How did he handle the media, how did he handle the alumni, how did he handle the football bust, did he take responsibility for the team's failures?
People like to rag on Lloyd 3 years ago. Fact is, that Lloyd Carr was a great coach. He is ready to retire, and didn't have the energy to go balls out for the last couple ,years. Yet, in 06 we almost played for his second shot at a national championship.
I'm not saying that the new coach has to be a Carr Clone. But, Rodriguez was a "splash" hire who turned out incapable of managing a bigtime program. It's that simple, really.
It doesn't matter that, as a person, I think he's genuine, or that I like him. What matters is that he hasn't done his job. Before this year, and before the Ohio State game, I was ready to give him another year, with a new coordinator, and see what he could do. Bring in Shannon, or Casteel, and let him have a last hurrah. It's now beyond that. The offense scored 14 points yesterday, and was throttled by OSU and Wisc.
I'm sick of setting bad records with this coach, and I'm sure that Brandon and Mary Sue are, too.
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:37 PM ^
It's kind of hard to handle the media and alumni when they're against you from the beginning. Carr was not a good coach. Good coaches don't lose at home to App St as the #5 team at home. Good coaches adjust after getting their asses handed to them by Syracuse and Oregon (not in 2007). Good coaches don't lose as many bowl games as Carr did. Good coaches don't lose to OSU as often as he did. Good coaches make changes. Stop living off 1997. If he really didn't have the energy to go balls out for the last two years then he should have retired right then and there. He did a great disservice to the program if he wasn't giving it his all.
Frustrating? I don’t know if that’s the correct word. We just come to work. I mean, one thing I’m proud of the players and the staff is we have not cheated the University of Michigan a day of work, and I wouldn’t allow it and I wouldn’t let our staff allow it, wouldn’t let our players allow it and never have in my entire coaching career. And we’re paid to do a job, and we did it as hard and as well as we could with some obstacles, but everybody is going to have obstacles.
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:29 AM ^
This whole Michigan Man thing is getting to be a destructive crock of shit. The message is being sent out loud and clear that you can't come here and be successful if you are not already somehow "from here". This is not what the University of Michigan is about and it should be stopped before it goes any further. It already has damaged the program under the current coach and it shouldn't be allowed to continue.
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:31 AM ^
I'd love to see Loeffler make his way back. That would be awesome on its own, regardless of how I feel about CC.
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:35 AM ^
If we dump the spread and go back, I hope he's brought back quickly.
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:45 AM ^
I was thinking about this the other day, will Loeffler be retained at Florida? Probably not if Weis is hired, I would guess, so he should be available.
Edit: @Steve in PA: Loeffler has been coaching in a spread offense for the past two years at Florida.
January 2nd, 2011 at 1:00 AM ^
Florida has a different flavor of spread than ours. Guess I should have been more clear on that.
January 2nd, 2011 at 12:43 AM ^
January 2nd, 2011 at 1:02 AM ^
Can you tell me why?
Have you not watched the defense and special teams?
That said, I'd rather have RichRod than Brady Hoke.
January 2nd, 2011 at 1:12 AM ^
We're close to something really good I think. People still forget, Denard was a first year starter. Yes our offense stalled at times but it also looked damn good at times. I'm not ready to blow this thing up yet. The defense has the pieces to be good and the players love him. These are guys that spend all day, everyday with him. I'm willing to take that into consideration before I listen to some old fart on a message board bitch and moan about how he's not a Michigan man (not saying you are, just in general).
January 2nd, 2011 at 1:35 AM ^
But the defense scares me. I'm a 33 year old Michigan fan, I was born and raised on defense first, and I must admit, I arrogantly thought that when RichRod came, the defense would stay the same, but the offense would change... It all changed, and while for the good on offense, the defense just shows me no signs of being a Michigan defense. I like Martin, Demens, and Roh, but I don't see much else that gets me excited. The secondary, while young, never showed any improvement, not even a glimpse. As long as Ray Vinopal and Jordan Kovacs start, this won't be a Michigan defense. It won't be good enough for the Big Ten. Today, they looked lost out there, and that scares me, cause this should have been the game, four weeks to prepare, your defensive and head coaches jobs are on the line, and you look --- lost, confused, and out of postion... I can't take that, I'm sorry. Like I said, like I am sure so many other people, I thought RichRod taking over, the offense would change, and I think we all know the conditioning would change, but never in my wildest dreams would I ever think that a Michigan defense could be ranked dead last in the Big Ten, not to mention amongst the worse in the nation. I see defensive bodies, but not a couple of five star blue chippers, which is what this defense needs, along with so much more ... and wow, I didn't even bring up the special teams, but, well... I don't know. I hate being negative, but I hate losing more. All the offensive signs, by the way, that this offense has shown glimpses of, we're against weak competition... Sad to say, against top tier teams, this offense didn't show much of anything. We have to admit this isn't working.
It sucks to say it, but... We need to move on.
January 2nd, 2011 at 3:19 AM ^
Agree the defense and special teams are a total nightmare and one that we've all unfortunately had to live through. That said after watching the Rose Bowl tonight, I don't think we need 5 star recruits to have a Michigan defense again. Sure it would help, but TCU shut down Wisconsin with a bevy of 2 and 3* guys. This gives me hope that with a good d-coordinator that a true-freshman like Ray Vinopal could develop into a Tank Carder. I realize it will take a miracle, but it's not completely beyond the realm of possibility and that gives me at least an optimistic glint of hope.
January 2nd, 2011 at 1:48 AM ^
We're close to something really good I think.
Did you watch today's game? Keep in mind that we had a month to prepare for it.
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:30 AM ^