Tate Forcier: Good at everything, Great at Nothing

Submitted by Bb011 on

Obviously we have our starter this season. It isn't even a debate like many thought it would be this year. But it got me to thinking about tate last year. I was watching some of the highlights(and lowlights) of last year and i got to analyzing it and it became easier to see why denard has emerged as our #1.

 

Tate is mobile, but not "fast". Hes got a decent arm, but not all that accurate on the deep ball. He has decent throw power, but not enough "zip".  Its obvious that denard is much faster. Denard runs like a RB and tate runs like a mobile qb. This becomes obvious when you watch the two run, look at tate who has the ball in one hand while juking and running while denard has it tucked in like a RB. No wonder tate fumbled it! Ball security was not tate's best attribute.

 

But the part that i truly started to see when comparing the two, was the difference in throwing. Denard has WAY more zip on the ball when he throws it. Throwing a bubble screen is effective this year because drob gets it there much quicker than tate could get it there. There was always a reputation that tate was the better passer, but while rewatching the highlights from last year he made some very bad decisions, and to go along with that didn't have the arm power to hit long passes.  I feel that Denard has surpassed tate in the sense of "throwing" in this scheme. We do a lot of shorter curls, and screens and it needs to be accurate but it also needs to be thrown fast so the defense can't react, and in that sense, Denard is THE MAN.

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Maize and Blue…

September 20th, 2010 at 7:15 AM ^

Zip is important, but so is accuracy, WR blocking (much better this year) and not leaving your WRs hung out to dry so they killed ala Roundtree twice this year. 

As for never seeing Tate's accuracy on deep balls maybe you forget the bomb to JR against WMU or the one against Indiana (to Odoms) that he left the field with his arm dragging at his side.

2 yards per rush is decieving because of the sacks and the 4 bad snaps in the IU game that went sailing by him.  He is definitely not Denard, but he is acceptable.

Denard has many advantages going for him this year.  Players in the third year of the system,  another year of experience and Barwisizing, Molk is healthy (Tate was all world last year too when he was at center and Tate's shoulder was healthy).  I give him the credit as he put in the work in the off season and won the job. 

 

Joined: 03/15/2009

MGoPoints: 6750

Sambojangles

September 19th, 2010 at 8:27 PM ^

Everyone's comparing sophomore Denard to freshman Tate. Denard improved a ton over last year, and I think Tate probably improved a lot too. We just haven't had a chance to see him. Denard has been great, but we're probably still 3-0 with Tate. I'm assuming his decision making, accuracy, and strength improved with a year of working out and practicing with the team. Which is why I find it hard to believe Gardner is really ahead of Tate. We saw last year how hard it is for freshman to make good decisions on the zone read. Gardner is probably really good, really athletic, and really smart, but it should be really hard for him to get up to the Robinson/Forcier level so soon.

Joined: 12/15/2008

MGoPoints: 10985

Yooper

September 19th, 2010 at 8:28 PM ^

This is a really unfair post. Tate's performance last year matches up well with any freshman anywhere the fact that DR is the man this year is no justification for this unfair post

Joined: 09/01/2009

MGoPoints: 11269

asianballer31

September 19th, 2010 at 8:28 PM ^

I don't think it's fair to say that Tate is necessarily "great at nothing."  He was extremely dangerous when rolling out, with great accuracy on the move, and he also had a knack for converting tough 3rd downs.  I never had the "doom is coming" feeling on 3rd and 12 with Tate at the helm.

That said, he also isn't "good at everything" either, with most of his deficiencies being mental, not physical.  He may not be powered by dilithium and he may not even have the arm strength to throw a pass to tacopants, but his main problem is his impatience in the pocket, which negates the prowess of our o-line and leads to increased chances for sacks, fumbles, interceptions, etc.

I think that is the main reason denard is the starter. he seems like he is less prone to improvisation, which, though exciting sometimes, can lead to awful plays (ohio state) as well

Joined: 09/19/2010

MGoPoints: -4

BlueGoM

September 19th, 2010 at 8:51 PM ^

but not all that accurate on the deep ball.

I am facepalming so hard right now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igsmIi4V0EM#t=8m51s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUvieRvK_wI#t=7m53s

EDIT: you may have to right click and open in new window or tab since the auto pop up is not moving the videos to the particular moments in time in the videos for some reason.

EDIT AGAIN:   And oh by the way that deep ball throw in the Indiana game was after he injured his shoulder.

Joined: 08/25/2009

MGoPoints: 7997

Gerald R. Ford

September 19th, 2010 at 8:41 PM ^

I am perplexed.  What is your motivation to write this? 

You just joined two weeks ago, and this screams of someone with an agenda or a ninth grader.

Tate is a valuable member of the 2010 Michigan Football Team.  End of story. 

Go back to Red Cedar Tailgate or Bucknuts or Study Hall or wherever you regularly dwell.

Jeeeez.

Joined: 12/17/2008

MGoPoints: 2043

Wolverine Convert

September 19th, 2010 at 9:17 PM ^

Why would we not have Tate hold for extra points? We have used a true freshman and had problems. Tate is used to the pressure and handling the ball, plus it gives us options for fakes or if the play breaks down.

Could we be saving him for a redshirt this season??

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 498

Firstbase

September 19th, 2010 at 9:40 PM ^

facts are stubborn things. Fact is, Tate played quite well pre-injury and exhibited one of those intangibles quarterbacks covet -- the ability to improvise.

I still think Devin as #2 is a mistake, but what do I know. As a fan, I'd feel much more comfortable with Tate coming in to put together a winning drive than Devin at this point.

Joined: 09/30/2009

MGoPoints: 9411

bronxblue

September 19th, 2010 at 10:36 PM ^

I think the larger reason is that as this site has become more prominent, the quality of posts have gone down and that has led to the general snippy-ness.  It is okay for people to voice their opinions, but 20 posts about how "I think the team will win if the offense scores and the defense stops people" is just grating.  Plus, some of the posts on this board scream Freep/mLive/Rivals quality, and frankly this is one of few places on the Internet where intelligent sports conversations seem to happen.  People are just getting annoyed with it. 

I know that I do not often post in the MGoBoard or diary sections because there are so many smart people here with better ideas that I would rather let them start a conversation and then comment rather than regurgitate a couple of half-cocked thoughts just because I can.  If I have something intelligent to say in a post, I'll create a topic; I won't create a topic and then hope it becomes intelligent after the fact.  And yeah:

 

Joined: 11/22/2008

MGoPoints: 171752

Tater

September 20th, 2010 at 1:50 AM ^

...is probably going to be a coach someday.  I don't see anyone his size getting much of a shot in the NFL.  I'm pretty sure Drew Brees is seen as an outlier, and NFL talent scouts aren't lining up to scout QB's under 6-4. 

No matter what you think of the media-created "pouting episode," Forcier gave everything he had to the team last year, and probably kept it from being a duplicate of 2008's 3-9 record.  He is on the sidelines, rooting the team on, and staying prepared.  Forcier, unfortunately, is a half-step slow for this offense and a half-foot too short for a pro-style offense, but he is able to figure out how to perform in either. 

I think he still may be the best fill-in option if the unthinkable happens to Denard, and I hope the part of the fanbase that is much more classless than they accuse Forcier of being decides that he is worthy of their admiration.  It can't be easy for him to have played all of those games with a concussion and a torn labrum, only to come back this year and get beaten out by a possible Heisman Trophy winner.   

AFAIC, Forcier is still a part of the team and has done nothing to warrant personal criticism.  If anything, he is owed a debt of gratitude for giving so much to the team last year and keeping his mouth shut under trying circumstances this year.

Joined: 08/13/2008

MGoPoints: 30584

Communist Football

September 20th, 2010 at 10:49 AM ^

Forcier had one exceptional quality, as exemplified by his last drive against ND: he is great at looking downfield and identifying receivers while scrambling with defenders in his face. I give him credit for that.

Joined: 09/18/2010

MGoPoints: 18944