Michigan Lacrosse
I was on http://mgobluelacrosse.com/ and looked up the Michigan Lacrosse home page and I must say that they have some awesome uniforms. I really like the maize jersey and the shorts they wear. Plus the Winged helmet just makes it look even more badass. On top of the uniforms I didn't know how good this team really is. They have won almost every CCLA conference title since 1999. I take it CCLA means central college lacrosse association. And they have won back to back in 2008-2009 MCLA finals. Has anybody been to any games this year? What are they like?
How is Michigan Lacrosse OT? Tim posts info about them on the main page. This is about as on-topic as you can get regarding Michigan sports. I don't know a ton about Michigan Lacrosse either, but I know enough to know that they are one of the top club teams/programs in the country. I wish they could go to D-1.
MCLA national championship game is tonight against ASU in just over an hour. Can't have picked a better time to start following the team. Watch it on FCS or here:
http://msn.foxsports.com/video?vid=393c5a66-6491-49f2-845a-74cce389c21c
Holy shit our team is impressive! Is their a reason why we aren't division 1? I would imagine if any school would be it would be Michigan!
Well, that one loss ended an unbeaten streak of about two and half years. And a win tonight would be the third straight national championship.
Holy shit our team is impressive! Is their a reason why we aren't division 1? I would imagine if any school would be it would be Michigan!
Damn it my bad.
I was scurrying through the world wide web trying to find out what would be the reasoning for us not being Division 1.
Im pretty sure its because of Title IX
Please explain the relevance of Title 9 to the Michigan's Men Lacrosse team being Division II.
Michigan lacrosse is a club, non-scholarship sport (not just a sport oddly playing in a lower division) that gets either limited or no funds from the University or the athletic department (not sure which is the case). The Title IX implications arise because in order to add lacrosse as a scholarship sport, UM would also have to add a women's sport (or maybe even get equal numbers of athletes, I'm not really sure how the math works). Either way, it seems like more of a money or athletic department priority issue to me, but Title IX does put up something of a speedbump if UM had a desire to make lacrosse a scholarship sport.
What about women's lacrosse? Doesn't Michigan have a women's team (club), and couldn't both then become scholarship sports? Could it have anything to do with the fact that the midwest (and thus Big Ten) is not a big Lacrosse region, unlike the East coast?
Women's lacrosse would seem to be a prime candidate as the matching women's sport addition. I'm not really familiar with where Michigan would fit in as far as the national lacrosse landscape is concerned. I think most Big Ten schools play at the club level if at all and I know that the national scene is dominated by East Coast and Mid-Atlantic schools like Princeton, Syracuse, Virginia, Johns Hopkins, etc.
The Title IX issue factors into the calculation for the folks at Michigan because they can't just decide, "Should we make men's lacrosse a scholarship sport?" but rather, "Should we make both men's and women's lacrosse scholarship sports?" Since the latter costs more money it makes it less likely that either sport will be added. Unless there is some indication that men's lacrosse could become a revenue generator in the future (not sure if it is at big time lacrosse schools, even) or there is a big influx of athletic department cash I don't really see it happening any time soon (though I suppose a demanding public could influence things).
While I agree with everything that you said in regards to title IX, I do want to point out that although dominated by East Coast schools, Northwestern has won five straight NCAA championships.
... i hate them MSU used to have an NCAA lacrosse team, but when title IX was put into place lacrosse was the odd sport out, i think around 2001
That would be for some reason other than Title IX. Unless they are REALLY slow in East Lansing.
According to MSU's Club Team's "History of Spartan Lacrosse" page (http://www.msu.lax.net/info.php), it was eliminated due to Title IX, FWIW. They actually had a very good team. I think it was more that at that point, pre-Izzo success, the AD wasn't making much money, so they had to cut sports. Because of Title IX, they had to cut two.
But wrapping it up in Title IX makes them sound a little less lame -- our school was too poor to fund lacrosse -- I guess.
Damn those women, anyway! Taking everything good away from the laxbrahs!
Thanks PurpleStuff for the information.
http://sun.menloschool.org/~sportman/ethics/project/topics/title9/
Here's one take on the pros and cons of title nine. It's unfortunate that a positive step for women's sports has been in some cases a negative step for men. Perhaps the law needs to be re-looked at. But the intentions were right. Women and girls need to have the opportunity to play sports and be competitive on a national level. I can tell you that when I was growing up, most girls didn't play sports. I wasn't encouraged by my parents, and wish that I had been. My daughter is 7 and plays some of the same sports my son does: basketball, baseball, soccer. I don't want her to think that because she's a girl, she's not capable of doing the same things as him. She sees my son having fun and wants to have as much fun as him. And that translates across all areas of life, not just sports. I grew up believing that my brother plays sports and I do art and play with dolls. Now, my son plays sports, and so does my daughter. And I think it's largely because of title nine.
MCLA Champions. 2008 2009 2010. Very impressive GO BLUE!
You get softball and women's gymnastics. If you are counting national championships you get lacrosse and men's gymnastics.
It's all good. I will take any championship, be it of the B10 variety or of the national flavor.
Hail to the Victors!
I'm not particular.
And women's tennis, too, with a Big Ten title. Water Polo also won yet another conference title.
Tim linked to this interview with coach John Paul a month or so ago but its very interesting and touches on the 'lacrosse going to varsity' topic for those of you that are interested. This quote in particular:
"412: Is the ultimate goal to be a Division 1 team?
JP: It is. I never would have said that a few years ago with my professional background. I knew the realities here. I knew our old AD was not interested in that. So, it wasn’t something worth pursuing for us.
There are a lot of things coming together that make it a realistic goal. That doesn’t mean its going to happen. It just means the stars are aligning and we have a small window in the next year or two to see if we can make something happen."
whole article here. pretty interesting stuff and id recommend the whole thing. Doesnt really touch on the whole Title IX thing but as the athletic department has been running large budget surpluses for at least the last 5 years it seems likely that they could financially swing adding two more varsity sports. i dont have any real inside info though. Another national title cant hurt the the odds...
Do you (or anyone else for that matter) have any idea how competitive a Michigan program could be nationally at that level? I looked it up and see that there are 61 D-1 teams (a few more than hockey) but the elite are a very closed bunch. Either Virginia, JHU, Syracuse, or Princeton has won every national title since 1992, and only three other teams have ever won (compared to hockey where 11 teams have won the title in the last twenty years).
So I guess my question is, is it possible for any new (or established) program to be more than a spectator at the national level in lacrosse?
Michigan beat a D-I team this year that finished over .500, in Bellarmine. In previous exhibition games in previous years, they were whipped badly by Army (a much better team than Bellarmine) and lost by 4 or 5 to Johns Hopkins 2nd stringers (at the time, a national powerhouse).
Lacrosse is definitely a game of "haves" and "have nots" - while there are 61 DI teams, there are about 10-12 that are on a completely different level than the rest of them. For instance, in the first round games in yesterday's DI tournament, which only takes 16 teams, UVA was leading the lowest seed, Mt. St. Mary's, by 16 before they took their foot off the pedal, and relaxed their ride.
Also, because the game is expanding, there are a number of newer D-I teams still in the "developmental" stage - PSU and U of D come to mind.
So, right now, with this roster, Michigan could go D-I and win a few games. At this point, they'd probably slot into the ECAC conference, which had some "OK" teams this year in Loyola and Denver. Bellarmine, who Michigan beat, finished 3-4 in this conference.
So, your answer - this Michigan team could probably be a lower-rung D-I team as currently constituted. That said - the sorts of players we'd get if we offered scholarships and the sorts we get now are obviously different. While I think guys like Parras and Zorovich could probably play on solid D-I teams, there are others that couldn't.
It's worth noting that Brother Rice high school has been sending players to play at some of the big boys out east for a few years, and is starting to get some recognition nationally as an elite high school program - so there is an in-state source of talent. Of course, Michigan would have a hard time competing for some of those guys if teams like Syrcause come in and offer.
The state of Michigan is up and coming in high school lacrosse, but it's true that Brother Rice is in a league of their own. Rice is 27th nationally in HS Lacrosse, only the second team outside of the East Coast and California on the list. However, Detroit Catholic Central is the second highest ranked MI team at #340 (this is all from laxpower.com)
That said, if we went varsity, I imagine UM lacrosse would be a lot like UM baseball - rarely a national contender (based on the region) but would be able to pick up the few elite in-state players and would be able to draw in a handful of solid out of state players based on the school quality and overall athletic reputation. We could compete with and occasionally dominate the midwest (Big Ten?) competition, but probably not a lot more in most years. But based on the growth of lacrosse across the country, we might not be at the disadvantage to the east coast school for long, like M baseball is to the southern/west schools. After all, Colorado and California are starting to get very good lacrosse as well.
True story: Brother Rice's imprint on lacrosse is probably the most extensive of any high school in the country. Warrior Lacrosse was founded by a Brother Rice alum and named, of course, for his alma mater's team, the Brother Rice Warriors.
While you raise interesting points about baseball/lacrosse, I do think there is a key difference.
Baseball has been around forever, and has, at times, been the most popular sport in America. Lacrosse, on the other hand, is relatively new to the mainstream, and could gain popularity in the midwest.
Michigan has had consistent success in other sports that aren't strong in-state on the national level, such as softball and water polo, so there's a chance that lacrosse could do the same. Of course, the Michigan brand also probably has more chachet on the East Coast than the West Coast, perhaps an even further advantage.
Yeah, I really like your comparison to softball and water polo for M. M is the only school west of the Mississippi to win a softball national championship (that may end this year though, with the emergence of the SEC teams). M is also one of the only major water polo teams outside of California. So there's so saying this rule can't apply to lacrosse as well.
However, those are both women's sports. Often times, the same rules don't apply to men's sports as women's sports. Here's to hoping we can break the "East Coast Only" trend in D1 lacrosse.
If you look at the D-I tournament this year, only 2 of the 16 teams aren't on the east coast - Denver and ND. Denver was bounced by Stony Brook - a tiny school that maintains a traditionally strong program year after year.
Notre Dame, really, had no right being there - they somehow made the tournament despite having worse records, and a worse Big East Record, AND lost the head-to-head to Georgetown. ND won the season opener at Duke, and beat Loyola at a neutral site (who smoked Gtown) and rode that all the way to the tourney, whiile GTown left the regular season losing to UMass.
So what I'm saying - quality Lax players don't really leave the east coast. ND is an occasional tournament entrant, though they didn't really deserve it.
Though I concede that Notre Dame should have given way to Georgetown, it's worth pointing out that 1) ND did bounce Princeton and 2) it may be that only two of 16 tournament teams are west of the Appalachians, but that's two of the five or six (depending on how you figure Penn State) that actually exist out there. Notre Dame is actually more than an occasional entrant, and OSU, PSU, and Denver all have made their share of appearances.
Quality lax players don't leave the east coast because there are so few options out there and only so many of them can.
A big part of that is because most of the quality lacrosse players come from the East Coast. This, however, will begin to change. As for Michigan (because that's where I went to high school) - when the college LAX players who are seniors now were starting high school, half the high schools teams in Michigan didn't exist. 10 years ago, there weren't a lot of 10 year olds in MI with a LAX stick in their hands, so it there weren't many playing at an elite level, but this is no longer true. This is the case for a lot of the non-EC states. Based on how much LAX has grown in Ohio, for example, I wouldn't be surprised if OSU's team improves quite a bit over the next 5+ years.
There is nothing innate about the East Coast making it better than the Midwest, it's just where the game started. It will probably always be where a lot of the top teams are, but that gap will also start closing rapidly with the growth of the sport in other areas.
Believe me, I'm not arguing Lacrosse can't be successful at Michigan. I wrote a long post at WLA saying why it can be successful. I just think that if you're looking for an NCAA tournament berth in 5-6 years, you're probably not going to get it.
Yeah, I agree 5-6 years is way too early. It will probably take a couple years to get to D1, and another 4 until we get a full team of scholarship players. It's probably 5-6 years before we are much over .500 in D1.
A berth in 10 years is doable.
They did last year. I'd be surprised if shirts weren't available this year as well.
They were sold on MCLAmag.com, but that site only has merchandise from last year's championship. Not sure if they're going to sell this year's shirt as well.
Not sure if this is the place to post it but wasn't sure if it deserved its own thread. I went over to www.umvarsityblue.com to see what was still there and one of the last posts was the Great Heisman Campaign where we voted on Michigan players against other Michigan players to crown the eventual "Heisman of the team"
Was wondering if there were any plans to do this again to help pass the time. The winner, Brandon Graham, was eventually crowned in July of last year so this definitely happened in the off season.
I am always for hypothetical speculation over random OT threads. Any thoughts on this? Would anyone else take interest in doing this over at MgoBlog? Maybe it could even be reader generated.
Also, Mods, feel free to move this post elsewhere or even just delete if you feel necessary. Don't want to hijack this thread.
I've considered it. Probably not front-page worthy, but I'll talk to Brian and see what we can do.
Maybe it would work best as a Diary series. I am glad you have carried over the Big Ten Recruiting Class Rankings. I always enjoy reading those.
Since apparently I live in the same town as a guy named Con Bro Chill, I figure a Michigan Lacrosse Threepeat t-shirt definitely needs to be added to my wardrobe.
According to the MCLA website, we lost tonight.
On the MLCA website. They have us listed 12-11 loss. What the hell? Wonder if they had some ASU alums as moderators.....
DAMN beat me to it!
Go Blue! Nice job, boys.