MGoPodcast 9.6: I Don’t Eat My Friends
1 hour and 6 minutes
[Bryan Fuller]
We Couldn’t Have One Without the Other
We can do this because people support us. You should support them too so they’ll want to do it again next year! The show is presented by UGP & The Bo Store, and if it wasn’t for Rishi and Ryan we’d be talking to ourselves.
Our other sponsors are also key to all of this: HomeSure Lending, Peak Wealth Management, Ann Arbor Elder Law, the Residence Inn Ann Arbor Downtown, the University of Michigan Alumni Association, Michigan Law Grad,Human Element, Lantana Hummus and new this week introducing Ecotelligent Homes
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1. The Offense
starts at 1:00
That’s the O’Korn we remember from Indiana. Right tackle is a massive hole. Think this team needs a receivers coach and needs to adjust better to what it cannot do. Drevno what exactly do you do here moment.
2. The Defense
starts at 27:47
Dominant again: State’s one successful power play was surprising because we never see a normal play work against them. Hurst was mighty. State got just about everything on frippery and luck, which was in abundance. Michigan will be in every game as long as the defense plays like this.
3. Special Teams and Feelingsball
starts at 39:09
Michigan got close to blocking a bunch of punts and got to one of them—first time this year that it looked like a solid special teams win. Maybe go for it on 4th and 2 but when your offense is butt and you’re in a 1950s game that’s fine. Don’t take the ball out of the endzone on kickoffs please.
4. Around the Big Ten with Jamie Mac
starts at 48:20
All bad blowouts. Ferentz decides to coach this week. Barkley had –7 rushing yards in the 3rd quarter. Minnesota-Purdue was probably the most interesting. Is Purdue going to challenge Wisconsin for the West or is that just the Badgers’ birthright still?
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MUSIC:
- “This Night Has Opened My Eyes”—The Smiths
- “Nineteen Years Old”—Muddy Waters
- “Everyday is Like Sunday”—The Smiths
- “Across 110th Street”
THE USUAL LINKS
October 9th, 2017 at 10:19 AM ^
Agree. Maybe they can "see what they have" in the second half of the Rutgers game.
October 9th, 2017 at 10:22 AM ^
he might be the fourth best QB on the roster. Unless you weren't counting Speight, due to injury....
October 9th, 2017 at 10:37 AM ^
If he's the 4th best, or even the 3rd best, and O'Korn is as bad as we've seen.... how bad is Peters??!? And how is a highly touted QB playing so bad?
October 9th, 2017 at 10:25 AM ^
October 9th, 2017 at 11:47 AM ^
At this point Michigan still controls their destiny unless Sparty runs the table, so "throw it all out and build for next year" is premature. Unless you really think Peters is as good or better (just like "O'Korn can't be worse than Speight!") then that was really #HOTTAKE territory.
October 9th, 2017 at 3:41 PM ^
that others have remarked on is that if we do this, then we risk wrecking Peters as he runs for his life. I saw enough of that with the Devin Gardner show.
October 9th, 2017 at 10:13 AM ^
October 9th, 2017 at 10:19 AM ^
Is that Brian's take on the rain in a general sense not being that bad is terrible. That shit was coming down in sheets for more than just a commercial break (which were obviously longer b/c of the night game). The monsoon was in full effect when the ball was in the center's hands multiple times. Nature was in a fucking mood.
October 9th, 2017 at 10:56 AM ^
Yeah, I wasn't there obviously, but that was certainly longer than a single commercial break.
October 9th, 2017 at 11:05 AM ^
Yeah, that's insane. The rain dominated that game for a good 10 minutes, including two of O'Korn's interceptions. You can do some things on offense in rain like that, but it's pretty damn difficult.
October 9th, 2017 at 11:40 AM ^
Sure, but it really was more like 10 minutes of game time, not the whole game. Sort of like treating the last crappy O'Korn outing as "the blizzard game". There was certainly bad weather, but it wasn't the whole (or even half) the game, and it wasn't the decisive part. The offense had already showed it was perfectly capable of sucking while the conditions were just fine.
October 9th, 2017 at 10:55 AM ^
I'd hoped we'd beat MSU, at home, after they had a hellacious season. I think at its root if Speight is starting we win, barely. But, I have several concerns:
A) Why in year 3 (or 2 according to the podcast, I'm fine with that) do we have huge recruiting holes in the O line, that have led us to have a shitty O line. Again.
B) Are the O linemen showing personal development? It doesn't sound like it. And why is it that MSU can have a shitty off season, come in with a walk on on D and a Freshman on the O line, and perform as well as they do? Why is it they can coach up folks?
C) Why in year 3, after recruiting a ton of QB's, are we still mired in shitty QB play?
D) This is more of a meta, why when one of the MSU guys cheap shots us, don't we blitz adn destroy the MSU QB. Hard. Tit for tat.
I have full faith in Harbaugh, but these questions are unsettling. Brian has eased my mind a bit, but I'd feel better to see some reaction to this game by the coaching staff that shows some positive result.
I'll be unpopular with this, but my hope is the O line gets its shit together and starts to play better, and Speight comes back and gets back on a good development track. That gives us hope for next year.
Because right now, next year doesn't look much better than this one.
October 9th, 2017 at 11:24 AM ^
A) The podcast tried to address that this morning. It's been a bad run of OL recruiting. Hoke struck out. The staff probably mishandled the Swanson recuitment in '16. Followed by a significant decommit (name escapes me).
B) I don't think MSU is the best example. Their OL wasn't spectacular in this game and we handed the ball to their defense 5 times. I'd look to Wisconsin as the comp.
C) See A. Otherwise not the worst question.
D) I thought we hit Lewerke hard all night. There was a 4th quarter hit when we doubled up and slammed him hard enough for Lewerke to look up at the ref for help. Then it appeared that Lewerke kind of remembered the shots OKorn had been taking and just walked away.
October 9th, 2017 at 11:38 AM ^
A) Not all year 3s are created equal. Michigan was rather devastated by vacuums in O-line recruiting, as well as high attrition, that basically restructred the O-line to develop in pulses of young talent. I'm kind of getting sick of this whole "year 3" thing. Harbaugh's year 3 at Stanford was an elite offense and a bad defense and they went 8-5. Now we have an elite defense and a bad offense. Yeah yeah Michigan is not Stanford but I'm sure that among all things the latter was not part of Harbaugh's plan, which is why I think he's kind of going Nussmeier on them and making them essentially rep inside zone in games. They need to get good at something, and this game essentially proved him right. It's just not happening fast enough but the alternative is to go full Purdue/Borges and only rep frippery which our own defense demonstrated is unsustainable. Harbaugh has a very difficult choice to make here, balancing practice time between fundamentals and frippery. Each game is on a knife's edge so I knew it was a matter of time we'd get cut. Just too bad it was that one.
B) This is a very difficult question to answer without very disingenuous and mean-spirited speculation. Developing people isn't something that happens on a predictable schedule unless you want to sound EXACTLY like the sociopathic bosses we all collectively hate because they treat their employees like robots with infinite capacity for effort, stress and abuse. Now, yes, other teams are doing better with lines of comparable age. But when you're dealing with people it's not always as simple as comparing one small group to another small group and admonishing them for not getting it. But that's why I really want an answer from the coaches, because they're paid the big bucks to be accountable. We won't get anything back, but it is appropriate to point at the elephant in the room, even if everybody already knows it's there. WHAT they're doing, we're not going to be told and shouldn't be.
C) Because our QBs suck. Or rather, only so many people are capable of doing it to Harbaugh's expectations. QBs are even more of a small sample size and hit-or-miss than O-line. Luck, Smith, Kap and Rudock (hell, even Speight) gave us plenty of evidence that Harbaugh is second to none at getting the most out of a talent, and identifying talent. What it did NOT do is guarantee future results. Even Harbaugh will miss because it is inherently difficult to project how a high schooler will fare when asked to make a tremendous leap in difficulty. What he does is find recruits who are more likely to succeed at that level relative to his peers, but the sample size here is so ridiculously small that no one should be bewildered at a few coin tosses that so far came up tails. FFS he nailed it with Rudock and that was only two seasons ago, but he's not going to find an Andrew Luck every year or Andrew Luck himself would've had more competition.
D) Um, no. Though we agree that that concern IS unsettling.
October 9th, 2017 at 3:38 PM ^
I know these are the type of 'Why can't we have nice things' questions that are easily asked, but complex to answer. But it does put my mind at ease a bit. It's easy to get down after a loss like that, but now I can have more faith in the process.
October 9th, 2017 at 11:49 AM ^
A) Why in year 3 (or 2 according to the podcast, I'm fine with that) do we have huge recruiting holes in the O line, that have led us to have a shitty O line. Again.
Beause offensive lines take time, because they're filling huge holes from attrition and the late-Hoke crater, and because they've done a bad job at recruiting and developing these guys.
Hoke's 2013 O-lIne class should all be 5th year seniors right now. That's Kugler (a mediocre center), Dawson (grad transferred), Bosch (a good OG at West Virginia who transferred for personal reasons), Samuelson (flier, injured, medicaled), Chris Fox (medicaled after injury early in career), and Logan Tuley-Tillman (kicked out).
RS seniors for 2017: Kugler, who's mediocre.
Then 2014 OL recruiting was down because the conclusion of the 2013 season put Hoke's long-term viability on the line, and OL in particular look for stability since they usually don't play until the're in their 3rd or 4th years. They got Mason Cole and Juwann Bushell-Beatty. The first worked out, the second was a flier who didn't develop.
Seniors/RS juniors for 2017: Cole, who's good, and JBB, who isn't.
Then because Michigan couldn't hire Harbaugh until late December there was no time to rescue the 2015 class. They inherited Runyan,, and Grant Newsome a 4-star who was tucked away in Ivy League territory. Newsome was good until he was injured on a cheap play that should be outlawed. The staff added Ulizio, a flier who lost a year of development to illness and injury.
Juniors/RS sophomores for 2017: Runyan and Ulizio, who's more like a RS freshman..
The 2016 class would then have find some stars to fill most of the positions as redshirt freshmen, which is the first year you can really plausibly expect linemen to be serviceable. This staff (and it's not hard to pin this on Drevno) screwed the pooch on its 2016 OT recruiting. They lost Devery Hamilton at the last second, and held onto Swenson long after they knew they didn't want him: neither guy was replaced. Once Newsome was injured alarm bells were sounded about the 2017 OTs. They wanted 5-6 guys and got three, none of whom were OTs (unless Bredeson can become one).
Sophomores/RS freshmen for 2017: Ben Bredeson, Michael Onwenu, Stephen Spanellis.
So that meant tyring to find grad transfers or true freshmen to fill starting spots. They failed. Michigan lost Leatherwood to Alabama, had Isaiah Wilson flip to Georgia at the last second for the reason you think, lost Kai-Leon Herbert because they were pursuing so many top-tier guys over him, and who knows what happened with Mekhi Becton because they had him then suddenly lost him, and now he's the #1 true freshman to PFF. When Mecton fell apart they doubled down on Filiaga, who they hoped would be ready and wasn't. Also they hoped Stueber would be a Mason Cole but he isn't. The other guys were always development prospects.
C) Why in year 3, after recruiting a ton of QB's, are we still mired in shitty QB play?
Because the o-line sucks. and the first guy Harbaugh scouted and recruited is a RS freshman they probably don't want to ruin behind the line that sucks.
D) This is more of a meta, why when one of the MSU guys cheap shots us, don't we blitz adn destroy the MSU QB. Hard. Tit for tat.
Because we wouldn't respect ourselves in the morning.
October 9th, 2017 at 3:33 PM ^
That does clarify things; but I guess what bothers me is that you hear here, and on the board elsewhere, that other freshman (State had one) are playing pretty well. If we have young guys, I guess I'd hope for 'mediocre' with a good coaching staff. We are getting 'Shitty' and the prognosis isn't real good.
As to the blitz and destroy the MSU QB, I'm not saying do anything illegal. But you can play tough football and say 'They gave our guys a cheap shot, we'll drill their QB next time'. Not a cheap shot, a clean hit. Just hard.
October 9th, 2017 at 4:59 PM ^
State's OL is in shambles. They were demolished last night.
Ohio State's OL is their problem too. The only difference is Ohio State's skill position players are vastly ahead of ours.
No team in the conference has a good OL this year except perhaps Wisconsin and maybe Iowa. The offenses that are doing well have some great athletes doing crazy stuff. Nobody on this offense is a Saquon Barkley or even a J.T. Barrett or Parris Campbell.
October 9th, 2017 at 10:56 AM ^
the fact that Harbaugh did better with Hoke's players than his own?
Look, I know he's not going to get fired.
I know he's not going to leave before he's been here at least 5 years, maybe 6, that's his m.o.
But did anyone really expect this? Probably finish 4th in the Big 10 East this year and there is absolutely no reason to believe a Harbaugh coached team will do better than 3rd in the Big 10 East next year.
15 years of mediocrity. Damn.
October 9th, 2017 at 12:26 PM ^
The problem is that he should still be doing better with HOKE's players. The team (particularly the OLine) should be stuffed with Junior, Senior, and 5th year talent, but it isn't because of the late-Hoke crater and the abbreviated transition class.
OL and QB are basically the places where Harbaugh hasn't managed to make up for 3 lost classes with great young recruits and good coaching. We're lucky it's not worse, frankly.
October 9th, 2017 at 11:02 AM ^
I will also say that I categorically disagree that the team isn't going anywhere after this loss. It was a loss in an insane game. Let's say Michigan struggles early but then wins by 3 in the end, I doubt the sentiment is "burn it all to the ground and start over", even though the entire game plays out 95% the same way.
It's not a great team. It wasn't going to the playoffs. They still have a good shot at winning 10+ games. Pump the damn breaks going over the cliff a bit. I expect that level of overreaction from us goobers in the stands, but you'd think the guy who convinced himself RR's tenure at Michigan was working until it 100% wasn't would be able to look at this fucking game and be like "shit happens, let's not lose our heads."
October 9th, 2017 at 11:02 AM ^
On ALL THREE of JOK's interceptions there were blitheringly WIDE OPEN checkdowns with acres of open turf in front of them:
1) First INT has McKeon leaking out into the left flat UNCOVERED
2) Second INT has Chris Evans completely UNCOVERED leaking out into the middle of the field three yards in front of JOK's FUCKING FACE. Evans' first job was to pick up any blitzers. There were no blitzers so he leaked out as a checkdown. Evans would have had the whole right half of the field open in front of him.
3) Third INT has Perry uncovered on the sideline. Instead he shot puts it to Gentry who is double covered.
Were the coaches screaming at JOK to just throw the easy pass to the uncovered checkdowns? If not, then THAT is what we should be criticizing.
October 9th, 2017 at 11:27 AM ^
October 9th, 2017 at 11:37 AM ^
It's ironic that the trolls spew their crap on a podcast that directly calls them out for being dipshits. Did you all not listen to the podcast, or are you simply trying to underscore Brian's point? If so, Bravo!
Also, I find it hilarious that people claim that Dantonio is a better coach than Harbaugh, citing the fact that this is year 3 for Harbs and that Dantonio won with the remnants of a 3-9 team.
If Harbaugh goes 3-9 TEN FUCKING YEARS into his tenure while embarassing the university with a loss of control, he would probably resign on his own because that would be below rock bottom. Dantonio has had some impressive moments, but I can't imagine we'd ever sniff a losing season with Harbaugh leading this program.
We lost the game and that's a shame. We lost by 4 points with a turnover balance of -5. Hat's off to that trick screen play that they probably rep'd for months just for us. Harbs clearly has some coaching and personnel tweaks to make, and he will.
October 9th, 2017 at 12:06 PM ^
thank you for this podcast, I think eveyone on this blog should listen to this and I hope they do. Too many people jumping off cliffs right now and the comments are crazy.
Harbaugh has yet to play with his QB, with his OL, and eveythign else that is his is too young....people need to stop freaking out.
Brian you nailed the explanation on how this is really year #2 for Harbaugh and HIS players..i had a hard time articulating that until i hear you spill it..well said.
He had no time to recruit in his firt year here because of the NFL season...so bascailly he has been still dealing with Hoke shit every day he has been here. I didnt think we were going undefeated this year, but I thought we should win this game...but Okorn is okorn, our OLine play is bad and our WRs are just too inexperienced. (gotta catch that ball though Eddie)
So it is what it is, but for all who are starting to give up on JH...hahaha..cmon man Rome was definitley not built in a day
October 9th, 2017 at 12:07 PM ^
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