Rostering 2017 Comment Count

Seth

By timeless tradition, going all the way back to the very first post-Harbaugh offseason at Michigan, our people recount the story of Jake Rudock’s exodus from Iowa, update the Grand Google Sheet, and see what it can tell us about this year and the future.

Whereas, at the end of the 2014 Iowa football season Kirk Ferentz released an unprecedented post-bowl depth chart just for the sake of putting C.J. Beathard in front of most-of-the-time starter Jake Rudock. This accomplished several things: Beathard’s dad, who’d put some transfer noise in a local Tennessee paper, was placated, and the People of Rudock took the hint to grad transfer the hell out of Egypt. After wandering in the desert, the spiritual, spiritually 40-year-old Rudock was chosen by Harbaugh to lead the people of Ann Arbor to the promised land Citrus Bowl.

In honor of the old Pharaoh’s great dick move, I present this year’s post-bowl Foe Film diagram, now with 100% more mustache.

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[Click to biggen make]

I’ve also updated the great spreadsheet of players going back to the class of 1993, with all that recruiting and attrition and start data.

Use as you like—I’ll keep it updated as the offseason progresses so you can use it for diaries or fact-finding.

[Hit THE JUMP for a chart party.]

For example it can show attrition was high among Hoke’s old players but it hasn’t hurt the APR because most of those guys are leaving with degrees:

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Or if you plug in some numbers you can see how many returning starts just graduated, and how little experience is coming back.

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That’s before attrition, i.e. with Peppers returning, and Clark getting a 6th year, and no more attrition among guys with a few starts (Kugler, Ways, Harris, JBB) who are near to getting their degree and likely to be passed on the depth chart by younger players. It also includes Newsome, whom a lot of people think might not be able to play this year. On the other hand it’s overstated, as Rashan Gary, Khalid Hill, and Tyree Kinnell have played extensively, and Maurice Hurst is a returning starter in all but the official box score.

That’s still extraordinarily low. If Newsome doesn’t make it back this year (my impression just from what’s been publicized about his injury) the 2017 team is functionally looking at between 125 and 150 starts worth of returning experience, with just Mason Cole among players with more than a season under his belt. That’s a hole that takes two years to climb out of: the only time they were ever under 200 was Rodriguez’s first season.

This happened for many reasons: Hoke’s classes had low attrition until many of them grad transferred, allowing the last few teams to get relatively old together. The classes of 2014 (when Hoke had few spots to fill and had lost his momentum) and 2015 (that Harbaugh had just a month to put together) were really small. Then some guys who could have gone pro stuck around for what looked to be a special season. And as Harbaugh guys seized playing time a few hangers on got their degrees and ceded scholarships back to the pool, which Harbaugh filled with back-to-back massive classes.

As a result Michigan goes into 2017 with just 30-ish players old enough to buy a beer:

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projected based ~30 new guys and normal attrition

That doesn’t mean next year will be THAT bad: 2008 was special in ways that aren’t applicable to Harbaugh’s third year, and Ohio State made it to the playoffs this season with a roster nearly as green as Michigan will be. It almost assuredly means they’ll take a step back, and that 2018 will be better.

Table of stars

We can also see how recruiting has gone under Michigan’s coaches in the modern era. Since Carr took over as head coach after the 1995 class was signed, and because reliable recruiting data don’t exist before anyway, I started him off with 1996. Not sure if the mouseover will work on every computer but if it does you can look who’s counted in each grouping. (UPDATE: they work if you’re on a computer and visit the sheet.)

Which do matter

I put it in a tweet because I followed with some stuff about the dichotomy between the 4.5-stars and the consensus 5-stars. My method for stars is to try to convert all sites’ rankings and ratings into a sliding 5-star scale and average them together. The 4.5-stars are Top 100 types: the 5.9s to Rivals or mid-90s to 247. Michigan’s hit rate on those guys has been indistinguishable from that of the standard 4-stars. Gardner, Manningham, and the best offensive guard of all time are in there, but it was super hit and miss. For example out of five cornerbacks in that range the only two to see the field with regularity were Donovan Warren and James Whitley. The super 5-stars on the other hand were just about can’t-miss, the exceptions being Pat Massey and literally half of every 5-star running back in the country to not work out.

Comments

Ty Butterfield

January 5th, 2017 at 1:28 AM ^

I honestly don't care what the record is next season. Find a way to beat Ohio State. There is no way you can spin 0-3 against OSU. It is completely unacceptable.

RobSk

January 5th, 2017 at 3:30 PM ^

is, what does that even mean? "Unacceptable"? So if Michigan loses 18 starters, Peppers, Newsome, and OSU has a 5th year senior in Barrett, and we lose. You do what? Fire Harbaugh?

At this moment, it looks like that game is damn hard to win, even at home. OSU loses good players, but keeps their QB, and their o-line is a year older. I'm not saying it's unwinnable, but it's a very tough game to predict a win, IMO.

      Rob

tlhwg

January 5th, 2017 at 11:35 AM ^

My 2 cents:

QB - there should be a QB competition in the spring.  If Peters is even close to Speight, the rule is that Peters gets the start.

OL - with the loss of 3 RS SRs, expect regression.  Only point I'd make about new starters is: if Ruiz starts, your O is in big trouble.  Yes he's the #1 C, but in comparison to other #1 Cs in the recent past, he's not one of the best.

WR - loss of 2 SRs, expect regression in methodical passing game, with a potential increase in explosive passing (esp. with a new QB).  The more young guys on the field, the more boom/bust is the O.  Note: this (explosive passing game) isn't a bad thing at all.

TE - I don't expect a whole lot of dropoff from Butt to Bunting (plus increased PT for Wheatley & Asiasi)

RB - By the end of 2016, wasn't Evans as good as Smith?  Also, (Evans is proof) RB is a position where young guys (true FR) can contribute.

DL - loss of 4 SRs (Glasgow, Wormley, Taco, Godin), expect some regression.  Still the DL will be top 15.

LB - loss of 3 LBs (including JP here), expect regression.  LB is a position, however, where young guys can contribute early.

DBs - loss of 4 SRs, expect regression.  I have no idea who will start, how much PT back-ups got this season.  Anyone care to elaborate?

DairyQueen

January 5th, 2017 at 1:59 PM ^

This is actually why I'm bullish on next years offense being just as good (albeit very different), if not better than last year's offense.

Since Jake Butt was more of a Flex-TE and Bunting seems to be in more in the Flex-TE mold than not, it will be interesting to see what Harbaugh has planned with Asiasi and Wheatley as much more Traditional TEs (so much so that Wheatly as an OL/OT are even tractable).

It's a little bit obscurant, but still more revealing, that these are only just beginning to be Harbaugh's guys he's playing with here. 

Harbaugh seems to have a great eye for talent and so far, just as good at development, and has no qualms putting in a younger guy over the more senior player. I actually don't expect much of a drop-off at all.

We haven't been able to say this for almost a decade but, we truly do have a coach where we can say "another off-season = another year of development".

It's been a while.

Bertello NC

January 5th, 2017 at 2:43 PM ^

I agree. And there are so many unknowns for next years team.
Will Newsome be available?
Will Clark be available?
How we wrap up the recruiting year.
Who wins the QB battle? Does Peters develop enough to unseat Speight?

I obviously think the two biggest question marks are the defensive backfield and Oline and in that order.

If Clark is granted a 6th and hits the ground running that would help immensely. And you have Watson, Metellus, Hudson, Kinnel, and Hill who have some snaps under their belt.

The Oline who knows. For all we know it could be better. We could have better run production. Running backs should be solid and have both FB's and a stable of solid TE's. Maybe Eubanks makes a splash.
But I'm with you, I think if the Oline gets worked out we will have enough talented skill players(some of whom could be freshman that contribute) that I don't think the offense will drop off.

Look at basketball. Who would have ever thought that Dj Wilson would be doing what he's doing right now? I sure as hell didn't. Last year he couldn't of fought his way out of a wet paper bag. So guys like Onwenu, and even Spannellis, could make serious strides. Hate to sound so overly optimistic but I can't see much of a dip on the offensive side. Now our pass D- that may take some time.



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BlueLava009

January 5th, 2017 at 12:12 PM ^

Let me Preface this by saying, I love Harbaugh as Michigan coach, please don't get me wrong at all…

 

Bama, Osu, two teams we as a fan base consistently compare our coach to their coaches, and there is a great deal of us around here who believe Harbaugh is the best coach of these three.  Granted the situation Meyer walked into was beyond Perfect, very much unlike Michigan and what Harbaugh was dealt, but Saban’s was very similar.  2 years removed from an SEC champ, surrounded by many many average seasons, including a 2-6 record in the SEC the year before Saban arrived. 

If Harbaugh truly is as great a coach as we all think he is, shouldn't we expect only a slight drop-off?  Its not like the guys taking over next year have 0 PT, they have undergone 2+ years of training in the Harbaugh program.  I’m not talking a NC season, I am talking just as good as any team in the Big Ten Season.  I understand we lose a lot of starters, primarily on Defense, but again, as we say around here, the cupboards shouldn't be bare.  So what is a drop off in production??  From the 1 defense to the number 10 defense??  20-30 higher??  By that same Tolkien should the offense not improve??

 

Saban went 7-6 his first season at Bama, since then no season has had less than 10 wins.  I guess this is what I was hoping when everyone was so giddy about the Harbaugh hire….