Willis Ward

June 23rd, 2015 at 12:25 PM ^

I really wish we would stop doing this. I know this is the internet so saying mean things and arguing is kind of what it is for, but why do we have to trash a wildly successful former coach of ours every time his name is mentioned? His record speaks for itself, his rings speak for themselves, the players that love him speak for themselves, 2007 and some weak late career performances against OSU speak for themselves, as does a drop off in recruiting. Then there is a story about how Lloyd torpedoed Rich Rod and destroyed the program by some combination of action and inaction that has been peddled by some people but not commented on by Lloyd. As some have said here and on 9 millions other threads that turn into this, with only one side of the story we don't know anything and even if we did...guess what folks, just like most things in life it's probably really, really complicated and when a fuck up as large as the last almost decade happens it's usually more than one persons fault. Lloyd could have won more. Lloyd should have supported Rich Rod more. If Mo hadn't fucked up he would have won more. Lloyd shouldn't get credit for 2006 because we almost lost to Ball State. I don't care about '97 because I* was 4 at the time. Blah blah blah. Look at where we were before him (lots of success but not reaching the pinnacle even during Bo's time and the era of no scholarship limits so much less parity) and have been since. Blame him for whatever you want but can we stop shitting on our one coach that achieved relevancy for this program since 1990? I get it and agree...Moeller was and would have continued to be a great head coach...but he didn't get to be. Let's stop tearing down the guy who was our coach and won for us. If you need to blame Carr for Rod's failures based on gossip, go ahead. But you can't blame him for Hoke's. And after 7 years of watching our coaches trip over themselves I would have thought maybe people might have started to realize that we had something pretty darn good from 95-08. * not me, but I have a suspicion that a lot of the people that hate Lloyd don't have real memories of 95-03 and certainly don't remember the 80s when Bo lost a shit load of openers too. With top 5 teams even. If 97 was the beginning of your fandom, you expect it every year and wonder why it hasn't happened yet. Trust me, if you lived through Bo's career you would realize how special 97 was and not cast 97 aside as simply as many of you do.

Joined: 08/25/2011

MGoPoints: 286

Njia

June 23rd, 2015 at 1:14 PM ^

All day long.

I was a huge supporter of Bo's (I became a Michigan fan because my Buckeye mom insisted that if I wasn't going to root for OSU, I was going to root for Bo because he was one of "Woody's Men"), but watching his teams get clobbered in bowl games killed me as I was growing up. Mo and Lloyd mostly turned around the perception that Michigan couldn't win on New Year's Day. Still, I am beyond privileged to have seen Bo coach his last game in Michigan Stadium as a senior at Michigan.

1997 was both the year of the NC and the year my daughter - who will be a first-year student at Michigan this fall - was born. I remember crying tears of joy over both events; it was among the happiest years of my life.

If the past 7 years have done little else than remind all of us that we should take nothing for granted, it will have been enough. Lloyd was successful for most of his tenure and any school (except perhaps the Buckeyes) would have been damn lucky to have him as its head coach. We did. Even Pete Carroll commented to a Detroit sports reporter before the 2007 Rose Bowl that he couldn't understand the anti-Lloyd vitriol that dogged our coach throughout his career.

But that's just, like, my opinion, man. It's time to move on. We have a great head coach in Jim Harbaugh - whom I am also privileged to have seen his last game as a Wolverine. I'm looking forward, not back.

Joined: 09/15/2009

MGoPoints: 35773

Jack Harbaugh

June 23rd, 2015 at 3:27 PM ^

What drop off in recruiting? He recruited absolutely fine up until the day he left. It's not his fault that RR wanted to keep none of the position coaches, and therefore kids wanted to leave because no one they signed up to play for were still there. Stop with the cupboard was bare bullshit. It's been proven false time and again.

Joined: 10/31/2014

MGoPoints: 2216

PeteM

June 23rd, 2015 at 10:05 PM ^

Whatever the real story was about the RichRod era he still is clearly one of Michigan football's greatest coaches -- the national championship in the modern era plus 2006 are both amazing accomplishments. 

Joined: 09/15/2008

MGoPoints: 3471

flashOverride

June 23rd, 2015 at 1:29 PM ^

HOT TAKE: I'm with the crowd that takes the nuanced view on Lloyd. I don't fault him for not switching to a "modern" offense. I do, however, fault him for fielding defenses that seemingly had no answer for a modern offense. I don't think he tried to screw RR. I don't think he tried to help him much either, though. 

Carr will always be someone I associate with a happy time of my life (I was in eighth grade his first year as coach), and 1997-2000 in particular was a great time to be a Michigan fan. And, a little curtness with the media and a few eruptions on officials notwithstanding, Michigan would never be embarrassed by Lloyd Carr. No NCAA violations, no Coke ticket giveaways (that of course is on DB, not Hoke, but the on-field product helped make it happen), no apologizing to rival coaches for the gamesmanship of 20 year-olds. And, in fairness, he occasionally got some bad luck. Having Henson starting the UCLA game in 2000 maybe changes the season, provided of course that A-Train hangs onto the ball later that year in Evanston (and obviously the Purdue game was nuts, too). A Henson-led 2001 team probably starts Jim Tressel off 0-1 in The Game, thumps MSU far beyond Spartan Bob's ability to help, and possibly plays for a National Championship again. Shit happens, that's football, but the guy did seem snakebitten at times. Of course, some of that was also because he didn't like to deviate from the script much, and that's often how you make your own luck. 

To me, though, the issue was that he was more a steward of Bo's program than a progenitor of his own. Yeah, they threw the ball under Carr a lot more than they did under Bo and Mo. But it does seem like he stagnated starting about 2001. And I think because that kind of dragged out for a long time, people got crazy expectations over how it was going to be once he was gone. And instead it got a lot worse. People tired of Carr's competitive losses to Tressel were now treated to RR's blowouts and Hoke's lone victory over Fickell and heartbreaking collapses against against Meyer. Having MSU establish itself as a Top 10 program under a spiteful jackass added another dick stomp. It wasn't always fun when he was here, but for the most part it hasn't been much fun since. It's been about a decade-long dark age when you count Lloyd's decline and the rollercoaster ride of his successors, but I think we're finally back on track. I hope.  

Joined: 08/04/2013

MGoPoints: 9070

charblue.

June 23rd, 2015 at 2:48 PM ^

helping undo the Rich Rodriquez transition remains as baffling as ever.

And other than that, I've always liked him. He had a terrific HOF career at Michigan.

He was hired by Bo after a lunch in downtown Ann Arbor that was primarily remembered that day because Bo nearly got into it with a guy who honked his horn at their car as they were leaving to go back to campus. Later, Gary Moeller asked Lloyd if Bo had told him he was hired, and Lloyd said he wasn't sure. The rest is history. 

We all have our foibles. Lloyd was a pretty damn good coach and he won an NC. Nobody else can say that. 

Joined: 05/25/2010

MGoPoints: 11420

blockm97

June 23rd, 2015 at 5:06 PM ^

Just my opinion, but if I am looking to blame someone for the UM debacle I point the finger at Bill Martin.  I always liked LC.  Good morals, seemed to be in the profession for the right reasons, intelligent beyond a football-sense, etc.  Never wanted RR or approved of his UM product, but I think he is a good guy and I wish him the best.  I had huge expectations for Hoke and...well.....I was wrong.  

Anyway, I've never understood the LC distaste.  He strikes me as the scapegoat for the RR apologists.    

Joined: 11/14/2012

MGoPoints: 216