Our fanbase is truly amazing. (re: Vinopal)
Michigan has always prided itself on being a family. Win or lose, success or failure, both the Michigan fanbase and the Michigan football team always seemed to be sewn together as one entity. We're not unlike any other football fanbase in that regard. When things are good, we're happy. When Michigan loses to Illinois 38-13, you sleep all day with your hands in your pants begging for Alyssa Milano to rape you out of your misery(Well, I do.). That is how things go
However, when I logged in today and saw the latest commit coming from a kid thrown around our recruiting mills for a while now - Ray Vinopal - my immediate reaction was to applaud and welcome this kid to the Michigan family. However, my joy quickly turned to dismay when I saw his listed rankings on each of the guru websites.
2-star, 2-star, #68 ATH
Oh.Fuck. I saw it coming: Immediately perusing the MGoBoard and comments section of the commit article, "fans" were actually jettisoning this kid and praying for an alternate reality where he didn't commit. A great football player from one of the best football powers in the country that our coaching staff wanted is, apparently, Not Good Enough for many a MgoIdiot.
Michigan has been through enough the past 2 or 3 seasons. Our biggest problems, obviously, lie in the lack of depth on defense. The coaches really wanted this kid and(according TomVH's abridged transcript) are excited about him joining our family, and instead of adulation for his commitment to our team, program, and fanbase - he is instead scorned for not being that 4-star black safety we'd like to believe we're due for. Just as Drew Dileo disappointed the shit out of so many people when, fuckbeans, we can get better! We're Michigan!
I really can't bother myself to get that in-depth on the sheer audacity and dickheadedness of so many of you simple-minded ninkumfucks downplaying each and every recruit our coaching staff targets that you don't think is up to snuff, but I just want to assure Mr. Vinopal, Mr. Dileo, Mr. Williamson, and every other kid in this class you guys have hoped would die a fiery recruiting death - there are many out there who value what it means for you to have committed to our favored university. Welcome to the Michigan football family, and may RichRod and co. cultivate you the same way they have cultivated guys like Omameh and Odoms into great football players.
Seacrest. Out.
December 5th, 2009 at 9:22 AM ^
Also, Cortland Finnegan is stealthily Irish.
December 5th, 2009 at 5:56 PM ^
I would have never negged you for saying this, and the fact that you have -10 for posting something like this shows there are a lot of people in our fan base living in the world of lollipops and gum drops.
I seriously understand "don't come on here and outright say 'X recruit sucks'". But this isn't that type of post. Neither was mine in this thread.
I think more than a few people on this board need a dose of reality.
December 5th, 2009 at 6:29 PM ^
no (four letter word).
December 4th, 2009 at 8:06 PM ^
Dear Mr. Vinopal,
Welcome to Michigan! Congratulations on helping lead your team to a state title in Ohio HS football. We don't really know much about you but since your are now on our favorite team, we're hoping you succeed in helping us get back to where we want to be.
You have to understand a funny thing about the internet. People can anonymously criticize the commitment of some kid, like yourself, based on his star ranking and lack of approved guru evaluations. You see as a fan base, we're not used to our team losing and we are disappointed with W-L results from recent seasons. Sorry to say, there are a few fans who have a rude tendency to express their disappointment towards 18 year olds. They are not thinking that your or your family might be reading this board.
The fact the coaching staff has spent more time evaluating the player than the scouting services means little to the star chasers who don't like complications or gray areas of recruiting. They just want results that look good on paper.
These naysayers have never seen you play or know nothing of your character, but then again they have nothing to lose since no one will remember their complaining and bitching three to four years down the line. On some level, they feel intelligent 'sagely' observing that you are only recruited by MAC level schools and M should be getting at least 4 star players at your position. Unfathomably, they don't seem to even be willing to give you a chance.
Instead, they can rant and rave about their 'informed' sense on how a player will turn out or 'what our team should look like'. The secret is, 'They don't really know how you or any recruit will turn out'. But you see, they've sifted through the data and know the data over the decade from scout and rivals (we even nod to ESPN on occasion too). So, if you could add a star (or two) their sense of hope would be encouraged.
Again that losing thing tends to bother people, please understand it's not personal. Also, please understand that many fans will be glad to see that you are the 6th DB in this year's class and you add another chance for us to solve our back 7 issues over time. Finally, consider that many fans are just not that LOUD or outspoken. So, many of us are glad that a person like yourself is interested in fine school like M.
Personally, I like the way that RR and his staff are working hard to get a full class and looking at everyone they possibly can. I really get the sense they look at what the player can do and get to know players rather than just click on the talent evaluator like we do when we play NCAA '10 football. Not being a coach or talent evaluator, I can only respond as a fan of M.
So, I say welcome to you, our new recruit. Glad to have you aboard and I really hope you can help our team get back to where we want it to be.
Sincerely,
Average Michigan Fan
December 5th, 2009 at 7:27 PM ^
Ray,
Looks like if you are in fact gay (I don't think you are, just saying), this guy is definitely willing to give you a ZJ whenever you get to Ann Arbor. He probably lives in south quad (as a sophomore), so hit him up.
Peace,
Beavis
December 4th, 2009 at 8:02 PM ^
i see this guy being thatscrappy player that can do anything, but will be playing offense
December 4th, 2009 at 8:22 PM ^
Ah, yes, the age-old fight between Blind Fandom and Freedom of Speech.
Look, the coaches are capable of screwing up. I hate this stupid idea that we, as fans, can't criticize the coaches' decisions to give offers/accept commitments from some kids. If you watch this kid's video, he has limitations. If you ask scouts/recruiting services, he has limitations.
Yet with 4-star safeties on the board - Sean Parker, Rashad Knight - we take this 2-star kid...
...and we're not supposed to be able to voice our opinion on it?
I don't like the commitment. There are better players out there and, frankly, even if we weren't going to get one of those 4-star safeties, I'd take a kid at another position before I'd take Vinopal.
That being said, I haven't seen anyone say that they hope Vinopal will fail. Personally, I hope he becomes the next Ed Reed. I will root for him to succeed every single day he's in a Michigan uniform.
Until then, I'm going to hope that we get a better free safety in this class, because I don't think Vinopal is going to be a good college player.
December 4th, 2009 at 9:03 PM ^
Amen. In addition, Michigan fans are no different than fans of any other fan base. Does the OP think OSU, USC or PSU fans would be excited about a 2* safety commit? Give me a fucking break.
December 5th, 2009 at 9:25 AM ^
I needed someone to make this argument. I've spent last night and this morning feeling like I'm taking fucking crazy pills on this message board. If one more person makes the argument that it doesn't matter what recruits we need because they all represent Depth, I might have punched myself in the eye.
Thanks for being a voice of reason. I agree wholeheartedly.
December 4th, 2009 at 8:25 PM ^
this was posted on Rival's. I thought it was A + :
"The trolls are gassed up and on the board, baby! I love reading this stuff. So many unhappy people, venting their spleens, talking out their rear ends. Makes me feel happy, smart and well adjusted reading this drivel.
hey, if you think i'm referring to you, I AM!!!!!!
btw, my wife is hot and the F LION is coming out tonight, we're celebrating the Vinopal commitment because that guy is a stud and we're lucky to have him."
December 4th, 2009 at 8:34 PM ^
Yeah, rankings to do matter and in a perfect world every recruit would be at least a 4 star. However, non-walkon warm bodies matter even more when it comes to defensive depth. Players get injured, fake sell cocaine, and expose themselves to strangers but the number of stars you had coming out of high school won't keep any of those things from happening. He might be a "project" but after a redshirt and a few years in the program, who knows what this kid will or will not accomplish.
December 4th, 2009 at 8:37 PM ^
...then I'm all for him. Kick ass Ray! If you come and work hard, you'll be a champion...no doubt.
December 4th, 2009 at 8:41 PM ^
I quit reading the main post when I came across this:
"A great football player from one of the best football powers in the country that our coaching staff wanted is, apparently, Not Good Enough for many a MgoIdiot."
Wow, way to sell your post by belittling your readers. Good job, Huss; you must feel real special and better than everyone else.
December 4th, 2009 at 9:22 PM ^
it is truly amazing how so many of our fans here on mgoblog know so much more about football than our highly paid coaches too, isn't it??
TRUST ME, they know that vinopal shouldnt have been offered. scout and rivals told them so. and they are never wrong.
plus, he's white, i mean, come on...
cooooommmeee,
on
December 4th, 2009 at 9:34 PM ^
Sorry but it will be about the 99teenth before such wisdom as yours is appreciated.
December 4th, 2009 at 9:36 PM ^
about the same time that someone doesn't think your picture is stupid.
December 4th, 2009 at 9:42 PM ^
Well now them are fasting words
December 4th, 2009 at 9:54 PM ^
You know who I wasn't a big fan of coming out of high school? Boubacar Cissoko. He didn't pan out, did he?
You know who I was a big fan of coming out of high school? Michael Williams.
Now, it turns out I was probably right about Cissoko. He didn't pan out. Maybe I was wrong about Michael Williams, who hasn't panned out yet, although he still has two years left.
What does that show? I'm not perfect. I'm human. But those are two players that the coaches offered scholarships to, and neither one has panned out. You can toss in Avery Horn, Artis Chambers, Cobrani Mixon, etc., etc., etc. There are a TON of recruits out there who don't pan out. Some fans are right, and some fans are wrong. That's the cool part about being a fan - you can make predictions, test your knowledge, and see if you're right.
Does it mean we know more than Michigan's coaches? No. But we are capable of being right sometimes.
December 4th, 2009 at 9:34 PM ^
from a South Carolina Gamecocks assistant coach on ranking's and how he feel about them.
“I can take a three-star and make him a four-star, and I can take a four-star and make him a three- or two-star with the contacts I have,” Lawing said. “That’s how ridiculous recruiting on the Internet is. I took Chris Culliver (USC safety) from a three- to a five-star in three weeks. All you’ve got to do is talk to the right people.”
http://www.thestate.com/gogamecocks/story/799999.html
I'm not sure how I feel about the ranking system yet, I appreciate both sides to the argument. As for Vinopal, I'll take our coaches word for it and like Magnus said, hope he succeeds every minute he is in a Michigan uniform.
December 4th, 2009 at 9:38 PM ^
yeah, magnus is awesome, i wish he would date me.
December 4th, 2009 at 9:46 PM ^
I'm taken.
December 5th, 2009 at 2:24 AM ^
Maybe its because Im completely trashed, but I just upvoted all your posts
December 5th, 2009 at 3:03 PM ^
drinking alone: not surprised.
December 5th, 2009 at 3:14 PM ^
This guy is worse then Mcfarlin, not even close
December 5th, 2009 at 3:41 PM ^
the windsor bar of choice last night???
December 5th, 2009 at 3:46 PM ^
I started out at The Lions Head in Riverside to have a couple drinks with my Dad, then me and couple other people hit up the LCBO and just chilled at a friends house for a few hours. Then to cap the night off, we hit up McDonald's
December 5th, 2009 at 4:25 PM ^
lions head = riverside staple... its right up there with riverside tavern.
December 5th, 2009 at 4:27 PM ^
mgpoints!!
December 5th, 2009 at 5:36 PM ^
please?
December 5th, 2009 at 5:35 PM ^
I grew up on tavern pizza
December 4th, 2009 at 10:12 PM ^
Can't wait to see you smack a Buckeye. I'd rather have guys of your ilk who bust their ass, know their assignments and make plays than a bunch of soft "elite" commits who checked their work ethic at the door (e.g., Cissoko). I don't really care if you're a step slower than some 5* so long as you're in position to make a play when we need you.
Go Blue - damn glad to have you.
December 4th, 2009 at 10:15 PM ^
It looks as if we will finish with a recruiting class in the top 20, probably around 15 by most sites. I'm sure the coaches must see something they really like in this kids, and I'll trust the coaches and ignore the negative posters! Welcome Mr. Vinopal!
December 4th, 2009 at 10:51 PM ^
I have seen Bob Sanders in person. And the guy is a monster. I used to play Defensive Tackle. And the guy looked scary big to me. I mean, he is almost as wide as 2 men put together.
When I saw Sanders, the guy could barely walk through the bar because his shoulders were so broad that, as he walked, he kept bumping into people on both sides of him. I thought there was going to be a bar fight until the guys he would bump into would turn around and see who it was.... and how big that dude is. Then it was, "excuse me Mr. Sanders". Literally the broadest, widest human being I have ever seen.
So, I think we can safely do away with any comparison of Vinopal to Sanders.
Regarding any comparison to Troy Polamalu.... suffice it to say that the only similarity I see between Polamalu and Vinopal is that they may be somewhat close to the same height. But Polamalu is a freak athlete. Polamalu does things on a football field rarely seen.... if ever. A surefire future Hall of Famer.
In looking at Vinopal's film, there is nothing about the way Vinopal plays that reminds me Polamalu. Vinopal is a hitter to be sure. And he looks like he has good speed. But his overall athleticism doesn't remind me of Polamalu. As I said before, Polamalu is a very rare, fluid, freakish type athlete.
Vinopal will have to be a first. And that does not mean he can't be good. But throwing out lofty comparisons to Hall of Famers and exceptionally built human beings should do nothing to make us feel better about this pick-up.
I say that if you feel good this pick-up, feel good about Ray Vinopal being the first Ray Vinopal.
As for me, I thought it was a bit pre-mature to take this commitment with so many big names still on the Board. But I also trust the coaches. So far they have been successful at uncovering diamonds in the rough. I can only that hope Ray Vinopal is another one.
December 4th, 2009 at 11:34 PM ^
"Literally the broadest, widest human being I have ever seen."
You are either a liar or you live in a gated community for anorexics.
If you used to play football, you've literally seen broader, wider human beings.
December 5th, 2009 at 1:41 PM ^
I'm really not all that impressed with Vinopal's hitting in those videos. He's willing to make the hit, but he gets knocked backwards or dragged down the field a yard or two on a lot of those plays. The only really big hits I saw were on relatively vulnerable receivers.
December 5th, 2009 at 1:43 PM ^
+1 to you for having good eyes.
December 5th, 2009 at 2:33 PM ^
Yes, but since the Michigan coaches offered him, it obviously doesn't matter that he gets dragged by HS football players in nearly all of his highlights. We're just a couple of idiots I suppose.
December 4th, 2009 at 11:00 PM ^
Forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't our safety depth pathetically thin right now? Last year we had, what, 1 or 2 safeties on scholarship that weren't true freshmen or walk-ons? If Vlad, Wilfolk, Williams, Kovacs and Gordon improve and if Robinson looks good, this kid will be the depth that we so badly needed this year. Best case scenario, this kid is better than anyone thought and he beats all 6 of the others out. I can't believe that I am really reading posts from people that somehow can't understand that we aren't going to get a plethora of 4 star recruits at every single position every single year.
December 4th, 2009 at 11:31 PM ^
The problem isn't that we got a safety commit.
It's that there are still other safeties out there like Sean Parker and Rashad Knight, who are better players. So this either means the coaches like Vinopal as much as those two (which is probably a mistake on their part) or that if either one of those guys wants to commit now, then we have to slow-play a current commit into decommitting in order to make room.
I'd be fine with offering Vinopal if it's mid-January, it's clear that Parker and Knight are going to go elsewhere, and other recruits have decided against Michigan.
Remember, this commit comes the day after this entire board was elated that players like Parker, Torrian Wilson, Rashad Knight, etc. were going to visit. A day later...even if those three guys wanted to commit, there's not enough room.
December 4th, 2009 at 11:46 PM ^
I was more getting to the fact that we already have a 4 star safety recruit on board this year to go along with a 3 star and a 4 star from last year's class. How do you know this safety prospect isn't the best one out there our coaches thought they could get?
December 4th, 2009 at 11:54 PM ^
Knight and Parker have both made plans/expressed strong interest in visiting Michigan. Both are better than Vinopal. That's how I arrived at that conclusion.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:55 AM ^
both are better according to your friends at Rivals/Scout..until the revision on Vinopal next week, that is. Come on Magnus, I usually like your work but the over reliance on guru ratings on here is incredible. There is a highly rated safety commit already, you have the Impaler on the roster (who has to get better this off season) and the coaches clearly wanted this player given the timing of his offer.
Without a doubt they will sign 27 or 28...look for either decommits, grey shirts or qualifying issues.
Best wishes
December 5th, 2009 at 1:48 AM ^
Have you seen film on Parker and Knight? They're better. No doubt about it. I'm not relying on gurus and star ratings. I base my opinions from what I see on film, which is why I don't have a strong feeling about Carvin Johnson one way or another - because I haven't seen but a couple plays.
I don't care that the coaches wanted this player. I really don't. People keep saying "Well, the coaches wanted him." That's fine. They're running the show. They've been wrong before. So have I. But I think they're wrong about this one.
And we can't sign 27 or 28. We can only sign 25, unless TomVH's source in UM's compliance department is wrong.
December 5th, 2009 at 10:28 AM ^
I don't disagree with you that Parker's and Knight's films may better than Vinopal's, but I'm not convinced that they'll end up being better than this kid. I'm sure you could go back and look at Woolfolk's and Williams's recruting films and say "yeah, I'd rather have one of those guys than a Tyler Sash", but I doubt anyone would say the same thing after watching our secondary this year.
I agree with you that Parker and Knight would be great gets and appear to talented players, but given the number of holes in our defense, there's something to be said for filling a spot with a Sash-type player who appears to always be in position to make a play.
December 4th, 2009 at 11:53 PM ^
Maybe the staff knows it is unlikely that all of the players mentioned really are going to show up for a visit, or commit, or make it through the Clearinghouse?
Or maybe they really are that stupid.
December 4th, 2009 at 11:57 PM ^
Oh, something's definitely up. I'm 99% sure that this means there's an impending decommit or a guy who isn't going to qualify, or something along those lines. We just don't know what it is yet.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:08 AM ^
We need a full class. I sincerely doubt Michigan is headed down the Alabama path.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:26 AM ^
With Vinopal, we have 23 commits.
Likely additions to this class: Furman, Grimes, Murphy, Knight.
That gives us 27.
Other possibilities: Torrian Wilson, Sean Parker, Kenny Shaw, Johnathan Hankins, Quayshawn Nealy.
Which of those guys would I prefer to have instead of Vinopal? All of them.
December 5th, 2009 at 10:06 AM ^
But Magnus - I'm not going to argue that the coaches are omniscient - they can be wrong about their chances to get ids like Parker or Knight, and they can be wrong in their opinion of Vinopal. But - if they think that Knight and Parker are better, AND they think that there is a legitimate possibility of signing one of them, AND they think that they can only take 1 more safety, why on god's green earth would they take Vinopal? I think, to argue such a decision-making chain is to argue that we're being coached by morons. It's almost certain that Rodriguez didn't say "Well, Sean Parker is better, and loves Michigan. I can only take one more safety...but I'm going to take Vinopal instead." Right?
So, either Rodriguez likes Vinopal more (I am not qualified to judge kids on highlight tape - you say Parker/Knight are better, I'll respect your opinion), Rodriguez knows something about the recruitment of Parker and Knight that we haven't been able to divine from Scout or Rivals (entirely possible, IME), or one or more of our current commitments isn't going to last to their enrolling date - whether it's a result of a decommitment or failure to qualify. But it's almost certain he didn't use his last spot in the class on a kid he thinks is inferior to players he thinks he can get.
December 5th, 2009 at 1:16 AM ^
To me, the sad thing is that instead of people merely disagreeing on this site, those who find any fault with RR, recruiting, strategy, etc. are greeting with a flurry of name-calling and how-dare-ye mock indignation.
Who cares that this kid is white? And why the hell even mention that in your post? It only highlights any ignorant posts about which you complain. Most of the I-don't-like-this-recruit posts I've seen mention nothing about race and everything about a lack of available slots and better players on the board.
As for the 2*...the problem is not just the low rating; instead the problem is that (despite his attending a prominent high school and being fully scouted) NO major school offered him a scholarship. Just us. Just RR. Maybe he sees something that no one else in the nation does (except Kent and BGSU). I'm more inclined to think that the offer went out early and the kid smartly snatched it up.
We need depth...absolutely correct...but we're still in the hunt for higher rated defensive players who are aggresively being recruited by other major programs. Some of these kids are on campus now. We also have silent commits already locked. There just isn't room for everyone unless we do some shady casting off of players to whom we made a promise. That doesn't sit well with me. If we continue on this course, maybe we'll catch up to Kent and BGSU sooner rather than later.