In support of Brady Hoke - three years and a positive direction
With the tide of negativity right now about Hoke and the program, hopefully we can allow a thread with the alternative point of view - the first three years of the Hoke era have been a success.
Hoke inherited a program that was fractured. Many alums, former coaches and players, boosters, high school coaches, and others felt alienated. In short order, Hoke restored many of these relationships.
The team was a wreck. In the last three games of the 2010 season, we had been embarrassed by Wisconsin, OSU, and Mississippi State by a combined score of 137-49.
Immediately, the program on the field was transformed into something we could take pride in by Hoke. The team went 11-2 with a win over OSU and a BCS bowl victory. We were praising the very coaches many demonize now. Hoke's first full recruiting class was top drawer - a trend that has continued throughout his tenure.
But Hoke's initial success depended largely on the recruits of Lloyd Carr still populating the upper classes. As those players graduated and the remnants of Rich Rod's classes moved into the upper ranks, there was a growing void of talent at the top - exactly where the strength of the team should be in terms of quality and quantity. In this regard, we bottomed out in the 2013 season. The very upper classes were from the RichRod era. We can argue the merits of RichRod as a coach, but what's left in those classes clearly wasn't what we need to compete at the highest levels. In fact, given the void in the upper half of our roster, being competitive and bowl eligible is an accomplishment of sorts.
Depth takes time to build, and the elite classes we continue to bring in will provide that. The trend now will be upward, as the depleted classes graduate and are back filled with new players of the quality and type we need. Replacing the staff now would likely derail the direction toward the type of team to which we are accustomed.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:46 PM ^
Eh, for me the problem is that "warm and fuzzy" is all I see in Hoke. He's the immensely likeable small-town high school football coach and phys ed teacher who's a friend to everybody.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:51 PM ^
We talking small-town high school coaches who are friends to everybody?
Hey'all.
December 30th, 2013 at 8:20 AM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 10:14 PM ^
thinks we are headed in a "positive direction" , he is most certainly not watching the same Michigan team i have been seeing.
This team is not good. Not in any area. Its also not getting better. In fact it has gotten much worse in most area's since the season started.
There is a growing realization with Hoke that he is what his record says he is....medicore/average at best and in way over his head at this level.
There is just no way he is now or ever will be in the same class as Urban or even Dantonio.
There are plenty of coaches in just this league that do a lot more with less talented players.
We are just now starting to see the recruiting going south as we lose prized players that we thought we had locked up.
Get real people. We are winning NOTHING with Hoke as coach.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:34 PM ^
@alwaystrueblue - you officially have the largest divide between username and message contained in your post i've ever seen
December 29th, 2013 at 10:39 PM ^
I have to have an opinion that is all unicorns and rainbows and alternate reality in order for me to use that moniker?
You are a jackass.
December 30th, 2013 at 12:26 AM ^
yes.
I disagree with your jackass comment, though.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:16 PM ^
this has nothing to do with talent. There were too many games this year we shouldve won. plus you throw in Uconn and Akron. This was the easiest schedule i can remeber.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:18 PM ^
Two years ago, we heard how good the 2014 D would be once guys like Ross, Bolden, Morgan, etc. had time in the system. I haven't lost faith in Mattison that he can't fix what was screwed up at times this year.
Really, the D cost us the Ohio game and perhaps last night (not sure if we'd win anyway) and maybe PSU game (though Gardner handed them two easy TDs). The Indy game was a shootout.
But our D kept us in the MSU game and was the main reason we were in the game at Iowa. Same thing at UConn.
INCONSISTENT play
Develop a Top 10 O-Line and this D could be decent enough to win 10 games.
December 29th, 2013 at 11:55 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 10:19 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 10:21 PM ^
Thank you for the summary of the last few years, but I completely disagree. Other coaches at big time programs take over fractured programs and succeed. Hoke has not succeeded. In my opnion, this shows that he will NOT succeed.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:22 PM ^
The problems on this team go farther than just youth and depth. Ross said himself the team wasn't ''totally into the game''. Who's responsible for that?
It has been the same ALL SEASON. Hoke and co do not get the players properly motivated for games. Period. We will see the same thing next year.
December 30th, 2013 at 12:19 AM ^
Honestly, I got the sense from the player rotations that the coaches were treating this game as an exhibition game to help players get ready for next year and help decide who should start in the future. I don't know if this was the intent or not, but I don't know how else to explain some of the substitutions and downs some of the 2nd and 3rd stringers were playing.
December 30th, 2013 at 4:34 AM ^
They were missing assignments, missing tackles and not being aggressive.
December 30th, 2013 at 12:19 AM ^
Honestly, I got the sense from the player rotations that the coaches were treating this game as an exhibition game to help players get ready for next year and help decide who should start in the future. I don't know if this was the intent or not, but I don't know how else to explain some of the substitutions and downs some of the 2nd and 3rd stringers were playing.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:26 PM ^
If Hoke wants MANBALL, he can start by having some more real hitting next Spring and not pretend walkthroughs, using the "depth" excuse for limiting it to a glorified flag football contest.
Tackling last night and much of the season was AWFUL - guys have from April to August to heal.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:26 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 10:26 PM ^
Now that the season has been put to bed, we'll see how the coaching staff reacts. The powers that be (e.g. the AD) clearly didn't like what he saw with RR. Next year's schedule isn't that attractive for fans but it may be critical for this staff. They need a good result.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:27 PM ^
Must have a lot of noon kickoffs next year. I love Tim Horton's glazed donuts. MMMMMMM!
December 29th, 2013 at 10:39 PM ^
It's going to be comical how empty the student section is next year.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:28 PM ^
In the mean time if I was DB i would start looking and keep my options opened and start talking to some agents, because Hoke is not the HC we are looking for..he can be part of the staff but thats it...IMO
December 29th, 2013 at 10:30 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 10:47 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 11:01 PM ^
Fitting young guys into an experienced team is one thing but that's not what Hoke had to work with. He had basically a first year QB, with a young line, WR and TE. He had maybe a bit more on the defensive side but let's not kid ourselves...the defense was declining under Carr and criminally neglected by Rodriguez. Look at the depth chart...Hoke has had to basically rebuild the entire defense. This hasn't been about adding a young stud to a solid defensive backfield, linebacking crew or defensive line.
December 29th, 2013 at 11:08 PM ^
A first-year quarterback? Even if he spent a year at wideout, Devin Gardner has been in the Michigan football program for four years. Devin Funchess is a sophomore who managed to be the best TE in the freaking conference. Young WR's? Gallon was a senior. Dileo was a senior. Chesson is a RS freshman. Jeremy Jackson is a senior. Reynolds is a RS senior.
Honestly, these facts are really something. You should try them.
December 29th, 2013 at 11:55 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 10:30 PM ^
I think calling Hoke's first three years "a success" is a stretch. He himself said he wants Michigan to compete for Big Ten championships, and so far we haven't even been in that game, Even worse, the trend so far has been away from rather than toward it. So Hoke has been a failure by his definition, not so?
I want Hoke to succeed because I want Michigan to succeed, and he's our coach. But I'm having a hard time seeing a big change of direction at the moment, especially if he keeps the staff as is. I certainly hope another year of experience enbles the players to be coached up so they can execute. But at the moment I'm still in the depression stage.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:32 PM ^
I would agree that Hoke should be given a full 5 years, but after this season if we have another implosion like this year, then some heads need to roll. If Hoke isn't willing to let underperforming coordinators go, then DB needs to end it after 4 years. And for the next coaching search we need to get out of the whole "Michigan Man" mindset for hiring a coach. Get the best man for the job, not the guy that everyone loves initially. If he wins, no one will care if he's a from the family tree.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:42 PM ^
I completely agree with this post. Hoke has been sending out competitive squads with teams full of mostly first and second year players. RichRod was was getting blown out on a semi-consistent basis, yet some are mentioning he wasn't given enough time, while at the same time saying Hoke and company need to go. Quite a counterintuitive line of thinking.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:44 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 11:44 PM ^
Please tell me, why hasn't Glen Mason divorced your ass? :P
December 29th, 2013 at 10:47 PM ^
I support Hoke. He is still getting his players into the program and we are young. Maybe I'm more patient than most people. Look at his time at Ball State. His first four years were pretty bad then he went 7-6 and 12-1. It takes time to build a program.
December 29th, 2013 at 11:18 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 11:26 PM ^
Hoke had 1 good year at Ball State and 1 good year at SDS. He didn't stay long enough to be credited with building a program at either place. He had never been a head coach or even a coordinator at a major college before getting the Michigan job---and I appreciate the same could have been said about Bo (Hoke ain't Bo). I am all for giving him 1-2 more years, but let's not delude ourselves into thinking he has somehow earned it. Keeping him has much more to do with how we want to run a program than anything owed to Hoke or his staff.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:48 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 10:52 PM ^
can say essentially the same thing i was saying without anyone bitching about what your user-name is.....lol.
I better change mine to....Glen Masons Hot Piece On The Side.
December 30th, 2013 at 12:38 AM ^
Whiner
December 29th, 2013 at 11:15 PM ^
about "derailing" the progress we've made. First off, what progress? We have gotten worse every year since Hoke got here. Second, why is everyone acting like difficult transitions are some immutable law of nature? We had a rough time with RR because of the system, and allegedly we're having a rough time with Hoke because RR didn't recruit O-linemen. This does not mean that a potential new head coach be destined to have trouble. Michigan has had two awful transitions because the administration decided to play fast and loose with their coaching hires.
The sure bet was hiring Les Miles. That's what a top-tier program like Alabama or OSU would have done. But either because Bill Martin is worthless piece of crap or because Carr has some mysterious vendetta against Miles, we whiffed on that one and headed to the slot machines.
Hiring RR in 2007 was a gamble; he was a young coach from a crappy conference operating a system that required a completely different set of personel than we had. On top of that, we balked when it came to paying for the DC he was used to - that more than anything is the reason RR is no longer here.
Then Brandon decided to follow in Martin's footsteps of incompetence and went ahead with the inane decision to fire RR after the freaking bowl game (because seriously that blowout loss to the cowbells told us so much more than our blowout losses to MSU, Iowa, Penn State, Wisconsin, and OSU).
Another elite coach, Harbaugh, was well within our grasp, but we balked yet again for unclear reasons. So Brandon goes out and gets a MAC coach with a below .500 career record with only one season of double-digit wins. A guy who cares so little about offensive strategy that he doesn't see any need to wear a headset, and has bet his entire career on a journeyman OC who can apparently only run a decent offense when his entire backfield is future NFLers. And not only that, but the system the staff wants to run is another complete 180 from RR and requires an entirely different set of personel.
It doesn't need to be this way. But if you hire second-rate coaches there's a chance you'll end up with a second-rate program. Michigan didn't need to play the lotto on their last two picks for HC, but they did anyway.
December 29th, 2013 at 11:29 PM ^
I know a lot on the board will not like this opinion, but Miles was the ideal coach after Lloyd retired. He was a high profile coach that wanted to be here. He had a big name that would have sold well with recruits across the country and his teams were somewhere between spread and power teams. He had an approach on offense and defense that was far more aggressive and condusive to Championship caliber football. He was the perfect transitional coach. The Program would not have missed a beat.
No sense debating it now!
December 30th, 2013 at 3:18 AM ^
Martin, never offered Miles the job. Herbstriet was full of BS. Yes, Martin was on a sail boat but never intended to call Miles. Miles used Herbstriet BS to get a pay raise. Carr and others in the Michigan AD did not want Miles as coach.
The panic of not finding a good coach lead Martin to offer RR the job after Schiano turned him down. I thin we would have been in a great place with Schiano as coach.
Miles would have ran a cleaner program here at Michigan, no doubt about it. He would have probably turned the program around fairly quick and would have been a good to great coach for us, much like Gary Moeller.
Now we are stuck with DB good friend Brady Hoke. I really hope Brady can turn the program around but he is not an elite coach like Miles would have been. I guess getting back to 9 to 11 wins will not be bad with a few B1G championship game sprinkled would not be bad. But people expecting Hoke to win us a series of B1G titles are in for some disappointing years.
If DB was willing to spend the big bucks, JH would be our coach but I think after 5 or 6 years he would have left for the NFL but those 5 or 6 years could have been great. Instead DB went with his friend and Michigan man Brady Hoke.
At this point our best option is to go with Hoke for a couple more years and hope his good recruiting continues and he can develop the players he had already recruited. But DB will give his friend Hoke through 2015 no matter what his record. I would like to win a lot of B1G championships and NC but we do not have the coach to do this. But compared to where Michigan football has been the last 9 years, I will be happy with consistent BCS bowls and perhaps a few B1G championship games.
December 30th, 2013 at 12:00 AM ^
December 30th, 2013 at 12:26 AM ^
If Brandon had fired RR after the OSU game like he should have, we would have been in the game for Harbaugh long before SF lured hm in. It's a testament to what an awful salesman Dave Brandon is that he couldn't get Harbaugh to return to his alma mater. Along with how cheap the Michigan AD is that they wouldn't shell out 1.5x whatever SF was offering to pick him up.
As for Miles, no team the guy has coached has been put under sanctions or even on probation. If you are looking for a squeaky clean, well mannered coach who can dominate NCAA football in the modern era and has no skeletons in his closet, you will probably be looking for a very, very, very long time.
December 30th, 2013 at 12:42 AM ^
December 30th, 2013 at 3:27 AM ^
I'm sure if the price was right he would have told the 49ers that he is now the new Michigan coach, case closed.
DB was not willing to pay JH that kind of money. I'm 100 percent confident Hoke was his man from the beginning and the limited search was just a gesture. He wanted his friend and Michigan man Hoke as his coach.
Not saying Hoke will not be a good coach for us but he is definitely not an elite coach.
December 29th, 2013 at 11:05 PM ^
December 30th, 2013 at 3:33 AM ^
To win the B1G. They are at least 2 season away by judging after this past season. We will have another 7-5 or 8-4 season and Hoke will be around for 2015 where he should do much better, probably good enough to keep his job and get a contract extension. This will be just 10 wins and may not include a B1G championship!
December 30th, 2013 at 3:33 AM ^
To win the B1G. They are at least 2 season away by judging after this past season. We will have another 7-5 or 8-4 season and Hoke will be around for 2015 where he should do much better, probably good enough to keep his job and get a contract extension. This will be just 10 wins and may not include a B1G championship!
December 29th, 2013 at 11:09 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 11:19 PM ^