Mailbag: Slowing Down Offenses, Henry At NT, Smith Vs Green, #1 Jersey, Onside Piracy Comment Count

Brian

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Brian,

As I sit here watching Missouri and Auburn roll up and down the field, with the only defense being turnovers, I'm wondering what can be done to curtail the wave of offense in football so that defenses have a chance again.  Maybe people are fine with all of the offense, but it seems like it is so tough to play defense (get held on nearly every play, called one in 30 times) that I would love to see something to help even things up without drastically changing the game (such as 3 downs instead of 4 or having to go 15 yards for a first down instead of 10, etc.).  I think I figured out a simple change that may help:  with offenses spread out to make one on one match-ups all over the place, what if there is a rule that all of the offensive players have to line up between the numbers?  This wouldn't be such a drastic change and it would allow defenses to be a little less spread out at the snap.

What do you think?

A loyal reader,
Ppudge

Despite the attempt to not seem drastic, that seems kind of drastic. That would affect a lot of teams from spread to, uh, concentrate. And I'm not even sure what the impact would be. If teams just stack two guys up at the numbers is that better or worse? It doesn't seem to have a huge impact. Apologies, but thumbs down.

If we're going to change football to slow down the offenses, my suggestion is to simplify and liberalize pass interference by making it a (nearly) arms-only offense. I can't stand it when a defender gets nailed for the WR trying to run through him; some of these back shoulder things are basically prayer ducks relying on the fact that the DB isn't looking and hoping he'll run over the DB. In the hypothetical world where I am king, whiskey is free and pass interference is a thing that can only happen when a defensive back uses his arms in an unfair fashion or blows a guy up early. No more of this stuff where the DB is running in a direction and the WR changes his path such that the DB is now impeding the WR. You have a right to your momentum. In exchange, offenses can have full NFL penalties for flagrant you-tackled-that-guy offenses.

Not that any of this will do much to slow down Auburn, which just runs and runs and runs and runs. They beat Alabama and their QB threw for 97 yards. They got outgained by 100 yards, but they also ran for 5.7 yards a carry against Alabama. It boggles the mind.

Moving Willie Henry?

Brian,

OK, there are many candidates to play the DT next year, but few candidates to play NT if Pipkins doesn't come back strong after injury. You and others are very high on Henry at DT, but I haven't seen him mentioned at a possible NT. His weight and height look fine, but is there something about his build that makes him not well suited to play the nose?

Rod

Henry is a very plausible NT with his size and strength. Michigan lists him at 6'2", 306, which is about ideal NT size, and we've seen him throw away more than one OL this year. In an ideal world, Pipkins is full-go by late spring and playing well in fall camp, allowing Henry to continue doing his thing at three-tech.

But if that's not happening I bet we do see Henry slide over to the nose. Michigan's other options there are Richard Ash and redshirt freshman Maurice Hurst Jr, which doesn't sound too appealing. At three tech, Strobel, Poggi, and Glasgow are returning and Michigan has the option of bumping either Godin or Wormley down from SDE with Beyer the projected starter there.

A Henry move is 50/50 right now.

[After the JUMP: Smith vs Green, annual #1 jersey speculation, and evaluating a potential onside kick in The Game.]

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Green was getting more PT for a reason. Was that recruiting hype? [Fuller]

Green or Smith?

MGoBlog,

Am I the only one who saw De'Veon Smith as clearly better than Derrick Green?  Smith ran harder, broke more tackles, and was more decisive than Green.  Green was billed as a power back, but rarely did we see that power.  Green had far more opportunities than Smith and never got going.  There are several examples, but his goal line carry against Ohio State was especially soft.

When these two came out, Green was the higher rated player but that seemed to be more based on his size and speed combination than his film. Smith played in Ohio, a higher level of competition than Virginia, and was more productive.  Remember Kevin Grady a few years ago, 5 star recruit, lots of hype.  Remember who played over him all those years?  Mike Hart, 3 star recruit.  I think we have a similar situation on our hands, where the lower rated guy is actually the better player. 

Sincerely,
Jon from Cincinnati

It's hard to tell based on just a handful of carries for each that didn't get snowed under at the snap because of OL/blitz issues. We're basing this on not much more than De'Veon Smith running through a couple of bad tackle attempts from Ohio State and Green not doing so. The jury is still out on both.

That said, I tend to agree. Smith has a Hart-like leg drive that will serve him well in the YAC department and Green does seem to go down on first contact almost all the time. Smith's run through more tackles in fewer opportunities, and if you'll remember that was his calling card as a high schooler. At this point I prefer Smith.

That doesn't mean Kevin Grady should be invoked here, though. Green's already shown better vision and quicker feet than Grady ever did. Green's been able to find backside creases and get to them; Grady just blasted forward every time he got the ball no matter what was in store for him. He's shown some promise and if he can enter fall camp at the same weight he played as  a high school senior, good things could be in the offing there. This kind of offensive line is the worst situation for power backs to be in.

We'll get a more definitive resolution next year when the two figure to platoon for about 90% of Michigan's tailback carries.

Derring-do!

Brian,

Always enjoy reading your game theory bits, but I was wondering about something my friends and I discussed in the stands. Do you think Michigan should have gone for a surprise onside kick after they tied it at 35 with 5 minutes left? I guess it's possible that OSU was expecting it. But the success rate on those tends to be high, we couldn't stop them, and even failure gives you the ball back down 7 with 4 minutes left instead of 2 (plus the same red zone defense opportunities you'd have in either situation).

Or would failure have led to leaving the OSU offense too much time after Michigan potentially tied the game again at 42? I was just curious what you thought since you're always on top of the math on these decisions. Keep up the good work, Go Blue.

Eddie

This did not occur to me at the time but does seem like a pretty good idea. We saw MSU attempt an onside kick in the Big Ten championship game, one of those sideline popups. MSU almost certainly should have recovered it but balls bounce funny and the thing managed to get out of bounds at the OSU 41. In exchange for at least a 50% shot at a bonus possession, MSU gave up 16 yards of field position. That is a quality gamble.

If Michigan had something like that in their back pocket, and chances are they do, that would have been an excellent spot to pull it out. You seize the initiative late on success; on failure you haven't given up much and actually increase your chances of getting the ball back for a final possession. Maybe you give yourself time to try to force a field goal once OSU gets in a goal-to-go situation.

You decrease your chance of holding OSU scoreless, yes, but what were those chances? With both offenses moving up and down the field—especially given OSU's ability to hand it to Hyde for 7 yards whenever they wanted—field position becomes much less important than who's got the ball. I say put on the eyepatch and board that kick return team. Hyyarrr!

Number one.

Brian,

Do you think there's any chance Funchess wears #1 next year? I'm not sure if this has been covered elsewhere. I'd say it's time to bring the jersey out of retirement--and I think Braylon Edwards might agree.

Go Blue,
David Cassleman

It would be tough to change Funchess's number two straight years after he's become a prominent member, especially since he's got a legends jersey. Or at least you'd think so. I thought it would be tough to change Jeremy Gallon's number from 10, or Jordan Kovacs's number from 32. I was incorrect about both of those.

Even if they decide to stop Funchess number rotation they should just hand the damn #1 out now, though. Give it to someone, and stop with the semi-retirement of the thing. Darboh or Chesson or…

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…yeah. For real. I may have an irrational attachment to short guys.

Comments

gbdub

December 10th, 2013 at 2:31 PM ^

Even relatively aggressive coaches (and I'd count Hoke in that category) seem to have a particularly hard time getting over their lizard brains when it comes to "the importance of field position", especially late in contested and/or high scoring games.

Granted, it's probably tough to empirically quantify on the fly, but there seem to be certain games where "playing for field position", except in extreme circumstances, is a sucker's bet. The shootouts against Indiana and OSU obviously fit this mold. We were having so little success stopping the opposing team that any chance to get the ball back / extend a drive, whether with an onside kick or going for it on 4th and medium, starts to make a lot of sense.

I'd also argue that the end of the PSU game fit this, at least when it came to the decision to play very conservatively and then punt on our penultimate regulation possession. In that case, an interception, turnover on downs, or a missed field goal would have had minimal downside - basically a 60 yard field to drive instead of 80 - for the potential upside of sealing the game with a score or a first down to run out the clock.

umchicago

December 10th, 2013 at 3:04 PM ^

i was calling for that pooch kick against osu too.  you're only risking about 15 yds of field position.  also, i was watching the BIG title game with a bunch of spartys and when their try didn't work, i explained to them how that was a great call and why.  i think they came around, but they kinda have lizard brains too.

jmblue

December 10th, 2013 at 3:11 PM ^

Disagree about PSU.  They had scored six points in the first 29 minutes of the second half, so there was no particular reason to be afraid of their offense with 50 seconds and no timeouts left.  The end of regulation was pretty much a miracle for them.

Go Blue in MN

December 10th, 2013 at 3:25 PM ^

I'm sure we've all seen many games where a team that has done nothing offensively for most of the game begins to move the ball on its last drive while trailing.  Often a big factor is the fact that punting no longer is an option.  So the offense goes from needing 10 yards on 3 plays the rest of the game to needing 10 yards on 4 plays, which makes a huge difference.  I'm not necessarily sure this applied to PSU's drive, which as I recall mostly consisted of a long bomb to Robinson, but the 4-down reality should affect offensive strategy when deciding how aggressive to be when you're up 7 points with a few minutes left.

gbdub

December 10th, 2013 at 3:26 PM ^

But "are you afraid of their offense?" is not the relevant question. The relevant question is "Are you significantly more afraid of their offense scoring a TD from their own 40 vs their own 20?", I submit that the answer to that is (or should be) no.

With 50 seconds and no timeouts left, down by a TD, they are going to need to hit a low percentage big play, maybe two, unless you're giving them the ball in the red zone. Big plays are highly variable - a busted coverage or missed tackle can lead to an 80 yard score just as easily as a 60 yard one. And in any case you usually defend that situation by playing soft on short to medium routes and runs, so your 20 yard initial field position advantage can get eaten up fast. Which is exactly what happened. Basically we sacrificed a chance to seal the victory for 20 yards of field position we didn't plan to aggressively defend anyway.

Keep in mind that in that particular case I also would have favored running more aggressive plays to get the game-sealing first down, so "kick a field goal or punt" is not the only point I'm arguing.

Space Coyote

December 10th, 2013 at 4:03 PM ^

We were right on the edge of conservative FG range until we backed ourselves out with a penalty. You are also assuming the kick is going to go into the back of the end zone, which was another costly mistake for a punter that hasn't made that mistake fairly often. And 20 yards is a significant chunk that likely takes off about 10 seconds, even more if you get tackled in bounds, against a FR QB that was struggling and hasn't seen that situation. I think a 20 yard difference in that situation is big. A 30 yard difference would be huge. 

gbdub

December 10th, 2013 at 5:57 PM ^

It wasn't a penalty, it was losing yardage on consecutive plays due to conservatism (just run and be safe even though it hasn't been working) that really pushed us out of plausible field goal range.

Where's mathlete? He did an analysis of this before but I recall it being quick and dirty.

The main thrust of my argument is that the change in win percentage for your opponents probably small considering the difference in field position. Either way the shaky freshman QB has to do a number of unlikely things in a row. Trading a say 30% chance to end the game utterly (long FG) for 20 yards / 10 seconds seems questionable. Trading an opportunity to win the game with a first down (by say throwing a short in bounds pass, or otherwise running your "normal" offense) for 30 seconds and a timeout is also questionable.

Anyway I don't think the opposite position is indefensible - I suspect the odds either way are close. But I think the average coaching lizard brain doesn't even admit that it's close, and thinks "obvious run x3 and punt" is the ONLY play there.

Space Coyote

December 10th, 2013 at 6:15 PM ^

The point I'm trying to make is that there really isn't an indefensible position here. Certainly, the other method could have been better. To some degree it could have been just as bad and the odds may have supported it as worse. There is logic that is solid and realistic to both arguments and it can't be made either way that the other side is completely nuts.

I think there is a very legit argument to be made that running was the correct choice. And just as there are people claiming that running and punting is the only method, there seem to be people that think that that is automatically the worst decision ever and you should automatically throw the ball there.

FWIW, the delay of game pushed that FG from a 44 yard FG (within Wile's range, and even within Gibbons range from earlier in the game) to 3rd and 14 from the 32. Not only did it push Michigan out of range for the FG, it pushed them out of range to even surprise PSU with a pass and be able to pick up the first down. Before that delay of game I think there is a better argument for passing on 3rd down similar to the way Iowa played Michigan. After it I have a harder time with it.

westwardwolverine

December 10th, 2013 at 3:40 PM ^

It really comes down to whether or not you wish to play for a win or hold out for a win. When you have the ball and you decide to attempt the things that guarantee you a victory (first down, points) you are playing for the win. If you have the ball and you decide to do the things that definitely give Penn State a chance to win (run the ball into the line three times with your ineffective running back) you are holding out for a win. 

Space Coyote

December 10th, 2013 at 4:05 PM ^

Both are playing for a win. You play your odds. Ask Weis about the difference between holding out for a win and playing to win. You play to the odds which you believe, as a staff and team, give you the best shot to win. It's not play to win or play to hold out for a win. 

westwardwolverine

December 10th, 2013 at 4:27 PM ^

No, its not. 

Playing to keep the ball in your hands so that the other offense is rendered useless is playing for the win. Its very simple. Michigan did not do this, instead choosing to give the ball back to Penn State. When your defense is on the field, unless you have an ironclad unit like MSU's, you are holding out for a win. Is Michigan's defense on par with Sparty's? No. 

Your example is laughable (like almost every argument you make on this site). You are referring to the 2009 Michigan-Notre Dame game. Even if Notre Dame had run the ball into the line like Michigan three straight times, Michigan still would have gotten the ball back with over 2 minutes to play. Weis was correct in his thinking: He attempted to end the game rather than hold out for a win. If he had gotten a first down, he flips the field, forces Michigan to use their timeouts anyway and runs the clock down. As it was, having those timeouts was helpful to Michigan, but they are not necessary in a sport where the clock stops for every first down. 

Stick to exceedingly long posts about how Al Borges is a good offensive coordinator. Its your bread and butter and your comfort zone. Don't wander outside it into anything else as you are exposed as a one trick pony. 

Erik_in_Dayton

December 10th, 2013 at 5:12 PM ^

...of the reasons I'm not excited by Brian's meta post the other day.  People seemed to think it would make the board a more civil place.  I'm not seeing that so far, and I don't remember M-Wolverine saying anything nearly this pointless, wrong-headed, and mean-spirited. 

Go Blue in MN

December 10th, 2013 at 4:17 PM ^

but you should do whatever gives you the most chance of winning.  Sometimes that might be playing aggressively (the so-called playing to win); sometimes it might be playing conservatively (the so-called playing to hold out for a win).  You will see coaches who are strong in end-of-game management do both, depending on the circumstances.  Coaches that are not strong in end of game management tend to err on one side or another, usually on the conservative side IMO. 

westwardwolverine

December 10th, 2013 at 4:38 PM ^

Okay, but gaining a first down almost guarantees you a win. Considering that DG was tearing up Penn State in the second half, why not give him the opportunity to end the game? 

Instead, (assuming Michigan actually thought about attempting to achieve a first down) Michigan chose giving Penn State the ball back with no timeouts rather than wrapping up the game or giving Penn State the ball back with a timeout or two and slightly more time on the clock in probably the same field position. The difference there (comparing a failed attempt to win with crashing the ball into the line three times), in a sport where the clock stops every first down, is minimal. 

 

Space Coyote

December 10th, 2013 at 4:50 PM ^

Let's not even go with the worst case scenario in which you throw a turnover, let's just say it's an incomplete pass. So now PSU has 1:30 with a TO, which is significantly more time, if not more with the aggressive style of play.

You've been limiting PSU to small chunk yardage all game on defense, you have an inconsistent QB on offense. I get it, you like being aggressive and "going for the win". I think there is a very legit argument that it isn't in the teams best interest to throw there. But you make this pretty much frivolous distinction and add a negative connotation to the other argument and think that makes you right. It doesn't. But like all else, this point is "laughable", despite that I have yet to see you show any real football acumen, and maybe this "one trick pony" just doesn't understand.

I get it, some people actually take some things I say relatively seriously or at least with a small grain of salt (as they should) even if they disagree with my conclusions. You got banned from this site and came back and think you're absolutely correct about everything and you come back and troll me again like you did under your previous account. I get it, you don't like me. You don't like this staff. Everything is the worst and will forever be the worst because, well, gosh-darnit, you watched a football game and the results went against us and you have the ability of hind-sight. No, no, I get it, it's fine. Keep on keeping on coasta... westward.

westwardwolverine

December 10th, 2013 at 9:00 PM ^

Let's think this through.

Michigan could do what you advocate, which is:

Run the ball with Fitz (a pointless endeavour all game that has yielded around a yard per carry) three times and kick a field goal (let's assume we don't take the penalty)/punt. Assuming the carries end up the same, we'd be facing 4th and 12 from the 30. So the options become a 47-yard field goal or a punt. 

This is basically what happened, so this left Penn State with 50 seconds and the ball at the 20. Your upside here is a long field goal in a hostile environment to win the game or a perfectly placed punt to pin Penn State deep in their own territory. The downside is Penn State with the ball at the 20 or the 37 with no timeouts and 50 seconds.

If we use what I advocate, we're looking at Devin throwing the ball perhaps once on third down and Penn State having the ball in the same spots with 1:30 seconds as a downside. If he gains the first down, we win the game. A turnover is about as likely as the perfectly placed punt, so one of the upsides from your scenario is about as likely as one of my downsides, fairly small. 

So let's review:

Your upside is an extremely unlikely perfect punt or victory with a difficult field goal from 47 yards. Your downside is Penn State getting the ball back at the 20 or 37 with 50 seconds left. 

My upside is a victory with a first down or a difficult (possibly less if yards are gained) field goal. My downside is Penn State with the ball at the 20 or 37 with around 1:30 or an extremely unlikely turnover. 

When you know that ten yards wins you the game and you attempt to get that ten yards, you are playing to win. When you know that ten yards wins you the game and you don't try to get that ten yards, you are holding out for a win. It's really that simple. You advocate for conservative play that allows Penn State a chance to end the game on their terms. I advocate for the opposite. 

Lastly, your final paragraph is gibberish. If you're going to simply declare someone's opinion stupid, you are going to get called out. Such is life. Grow up. 

 

Space Coyote

December 10th, 2013 at 9:38 PM ^

40 more seconds is about 5-6 more plays for PSU. That's pretty significant and allows PSU to pick up first downs and that's enough, rather than forcing them to chuck the ball down the field (90 seconds ives them about 12 plays to pick up 80 yards, or about 6.67 yards per play, where as 50 seconds gives them about 7 plays, which is about 11.42 yards per play, which is very significant). One allows you to basically pick up a first down once every 2 downs. The other forces you to pick up large chunks or else be perfect, which is much more difficult, and even more difficult for a true FR QB when you know they have to pick up yards in huge chunks rather than giving them options. So yes, by being aggressive you have about a 30% chance of getting the win by getting a first down (though I'd say it's less than that under the circumstances, because you'll run a safe pass play with only one or two routes at most). After that you've significantly increased the other teams chances if you don't succeed. By taking the clock down you have significantly decreased the probability that the other team can win.

I have no problem with the opinion that being more aggressive is the better approach. I disagree in that scenario, which, fine, but I am perfectly content with someone having that opinion and I wouldn't knock that opinion in and of itself. You fail to even try to understand the logic of the opposite side. My only contention was that you made an unnecessary and pointless distinction about the coaches playing to win, and gave a negative connotation to try to use that as support against the opposite argument. You argue that playing to win and playing to win are not both playing to win, which is your way of arguing semantics, which is par for the course.

I called a distinction "stupid", which I shouldn't have, I should have said "pointless", "inane", "unimportant", or something along those lines to make it less insulting. For that I apologize. But then you went and attacked me personally when I did no such thing. This is also par for the course. But I appreciate the fact that you think I'm the "one trick pony" between us and that you believe you've added more value to this blog, Michigan blogs in general, and to the added knowledge about football in general.

FWIW: In a complete vacuum, where PSU doesn't have a true FR QB, only 6 teams have pulled off a TD drive under the circumstances Michigan gave PSU. The win probability was 99%+ by doing what Michigan did, according to Mathlete. So doing any different is anywhere from an extremely marginal difference and a significant difference the opposite way.

westwardwolverine

December 10th, 2013 at 10:41 PM ^

You insulted my opinion, I insulted your general opinions you've expressed overall. Hardly a difference considering you decided to be rude in the first place.  

The reality is this: Be it 1:30 from the 20 or 50 seconds from the 20, Penn State probably needed a miracle to win (which they got). What is the one way you can avoid a miracle all together? By obtaining a first down and never letting them touch the ball. 

In that vacuum you describe, how many won in 1:30? Did it jump to 1,000 teams in that added 40 seconds?

Again, very simple: If you are playing to win, you would attempt the option that guarantees you a win. And if you don't get it, you're still facing a freshman QB in unfavorable conditions.

I also don't do hindsight, I stick to my opinions. I wanted Hoke to go for 2 against OSU. It didn't work, but I stand by that call. I wanted him to go for it on both 4th and 2 calls. One worked and one didn't. I didn't cheer the one that did and rail against the one that didn't. When it comes to game time calls I'm as consistent as they come. 

I find it odd that you claim I'm "trolling" you, yet you were the one who initially replied to my comment in a hostile manner. 

 

Space Coyote

December 10th, 2013 at 11:31 PM ^

I don't have the NCAA database, so we'll utilize an NFL win probability calculator. To account for the fact that NFL doesn't stop the clock on first downs, we'll assume in each scenario you have about 50% more time to work with. In general, I think this favors you as NFL QBs are much more successful at executing this. We'll assume that converting on 3rd down is a 35% probability. So in both cases I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. We'll also assume running on 3rd down gives a 0% probability of picking up a first down, though that's not the case (Fitz's long was 12, but again, benefit of the doubt assuming the probability is pretty low).

Now, running the football: 1* 0.94 (probability at 75 seconds) = 94% win probability

Throwing the football: 0.35 * 1 + 0.65 * 0.85 (probability at 135 seconds) =  90.25% win probability

Lets give you further benefit of the doubt because there is a 2-minute warning in the NFL.

Thowing the football: 0.35 * 1 + 0.65 * 0.88 (probability at 119 seconds) = 92.2% win probability.

These seem pretty close and within reason to argue either side (for what it's worth, your break even point for assuming running the ball gives a team an NFL equivalent of 75 seconds is 100 seconds, so by adding 25 seconds to the clock by running the ball, you can only add 10 seconds to the clock for failing on a 3rd down conversion for the odds to break even; this does not account for the higher possibility of a turnover and general is kind to your argument over the argument to run the football on 3rd down). So you can try to twist this to fit your agenda or you can admit that either case is only at best extremely marginally better. And that's looking in a vacuum, not with a QB that's turnover prone on an obvious 3rd down play where you'll be conservative with any pass call in a hostile environment against a true FR QB playing for the other team that you have almost always held to only picking up marginal yardage all game.

Also, I apologized for calling your distinction "stupid" when I strongly disagreed with it. You called me a "one-trick pony" amongst other things you insinuated that were clearly intended to be more personally insulting. That's fine, I'm not really offended because I know my standing, but your willingness to attempt to justify your side to great extents undermines your own credibility.

If I would have remembered at the time who you were before getting banned, I never would have responded to your comment in the first place, because I know how this argument always goes between us. So I apologize for that as well.

Good luck in your future endeavours and happy holidays.

westwardwolverine

December 11th, 2013 at 10:46 AM ^

Personally, I find it hilarious you think that only one person can disagree with your take on things as well as be annoyed with your posting style. But believe what you want. 

Its fine to agree to disagree. The real problem with your argument is that it hides behind the vacuum rather than confronts the situation at hand, but its pointless to go on as I've already said my piece. 

Space Coyote

December 11th, 2013 at 11:41 AM ^

Obviously other people disagree with my take on things, look around this place. Many people that disagree can accept the style that I post with and the methods I use to back it up and still disagree, which is fine. Others (like you) don't like me, which is fine too. But you're the one that is often the most vocal about it.

I also find it funny you say I'm arguing in a vacuum. You mean the vacuum of not realizing you have a turnover prone QB that has been making mistakes and is in a hostile environement? You mean the vacuum of going up against a FR QB? You mean the vacuum that the defense at that point had been very successful at stopping big chunk plays against PSU and the rest of the season? You mean the vacuum that supports that either decision is hardly significantly different than the other, yet it likely supports running the football just a little more? Oh wait, you ignored that last part and decided to go after the straw man... again.

You always point out this "vacuum" I post in when my reasoning is anything but. My reasoning has always been that there are countless other factors and variables and that makes this much more difficult and complex than most people are making it. If anything, the issue with my POV, is that it takes it too far beyond a vacuum. What vacuum am I stuck in? Because I break things down to a fundamental level (concepts within a play) and try to pull it back out to look at all the other factors? So I'm stuck within the vacuum of football, and a football season, etc? Do I not put enough weight on what a player ate the night before a game? Do I not take relationship status under consideration enough? What vacuum are you talking about? I'm sure you'll answer that with some BS or strawman, and that'll be funny.

But keep using your strawman arguments. Keep taking veiled shots at me in other posts that I have nothing to do with. Keep exaggerating my point of view to try to make me seem out of touch. You calling me a "one-trick pony" compared to you is absolutely "laughable". What have you added or provided to this board or any football board that is of any substance or consequence? All you do is the same thing over and over with multiple people, not just me. So keep making your strawman agrument. I know you will. You've already said that piece numerous times.

UMQuadz05

December 10th, 2013 at 1:21 PM ^

Co-sign 100% on changing that rule.  There's also a safety benefit- if a DB has more leeway, he has more options to defend a pass than "wait until the catch and then attempt to concuss player".  If unstoppable TE seam routes and 50 PI penalties continue to increase in the NFL, this is a move that could actually gain traction.

skegemogpoint

December 10th, 2013 at 1:25 PM ^

like em both.  No need to knock either guy at this point.  Pipkins imo has been a minor disappointment  thus far.  We really need Pip to get well and improve significantly.  He and Willie can be a great combination next year.  Still need a stud DE.  I hate Da'Shawn Hand.

Erik_in_Dayton

December 10th, 2013 at 1:28 PM ^

I'd like to see No. 1 go to Drake Harris.  It didn't used to be given to players only once they'd proven themselves, and it generally worked out fine.

Re: NT, I'm a little surprised Coach Hoke and Co. have only the very small number of guys that they have who can play NT.  You'd think you'd recruit one or two per class given the importance of the position and the miss rate on those types of guys.

Space Coyote

December 10th, 2013 at 4:07 PM ^

Which is what they get with both Pipkins and Henry. Both can play either shade. This gives you more flexibility in your fronts, shifting, etc. I think this is the direction they are trying to go but haven't had the bodies yet. I think you start to see more of that next year, but it is probably still 2-3 years away before Michigan can do that consistently.

JeepinBen

December 10th, 2013 at 4:58 PM ^

I think that Michigan wouldn't mind the flexibility, but also there are generally 2 types of NTs - Planetoids and penetrators. Ideally at least 1 DL takes up a double team, usually the NT, but this staff has shown that they like being able to get penetration from the nose spot. Between Mike Martin's awesomeness and playing a 280lb Black at the nose, combined with having Pipkins drop a bunch of weight, I wouldn't be surprised if that's where they're heading.

Ron Utah

December 11th, 2013 at 11:40 AM ^

It's always a tricky thing to pick a position for a defensive player in college.  Usually corners stay corners, but every other position has a tendency to move "down and in," meaning you get bigger and stronger; safeties become LBs, LBs become DEs, DEs become DTs, and DTs become NTs.

In our base defense, the closest positions on the line are really the SDE and DT.  The coaches will probably continue to shuffle those guys back-and-forth.  But when you have a guy with the quickness and strength to play DT that is also 290 lbs or more, he can probably hold-up as a NT as well.

Players' bodies change drastically in college, especially on defense.  Frank Clark is big enough to be a SDE at this point--I would not have guesses that would be possible.

I'm not sure the coaches are looking for interchangeable parts at DT and NT, but if you have the size/strength combo, you can probably play both.

French West Indian

December 10th, 2013 at 1:29 PM ^

What if we just went to touch football & got rid of the tackles? That'd cut down on the concussions too and might even save the sport for the future.

crazyjoedavola

December 10th, 2013 at 1:32 PM ^

To me Smith and Green looked like they did on their high school tapes, Smith is a tougher runner with ability to break tackles, Green has better vision, speed, and size.  Their current problem is that the OL in front of them is no better than what they had in high school, while the defenses they are facing are a lot more formidable (excluding Indiana of course).

club2230

December 10th, 2013 at 1:33 PM ^

I do not think changing rules like that in order to promote either offense or defense is a good idea.  Adjusting enforcement of existing rules seems like a more apt way to level the playing field.  

My big concern is the enjoyment of college football.  The spread offense, in its many forms, in a sense, level the playing field talent wise.  Taking spread concepts out of football can serve to reduce upsets and make lower-tier teams less capable of pulling off an upset.  Who wants that?  

 

club2230

December 10th, 2013 at 1:47 PM ^

I understand that rule changes to benefit the offense may have happened, but when ideas such as changing down and distance, substitution, and spacing requirements seem quite drastic.  

As long as a team is not winning through legitimate trickeration like taking advantage of jersey numbers, I am quite alright with the game.

Teams like Indiana that run a very up tempo offense often lead to questions regarding the substitution rule.  However, if a defense such as MSU can have quite a bit of success in their base set without substituting then why should a new rule be made to accomodate those teams that can't deal with it.  

There will be negative externalities, many of which cannot be accurately predicted, to changing the rules so drastically, so much care shoudl be taken with regards to entertaining these ideas.

jmblue

December 10th, 2013 at 2:54 PM ^

The rules have at times been changed to help defenses.  The "too many men in the huddle" rule, passed in the '90s, is an example.  Gary Moeller's teams used to make use of that loophole (putting sometimes 14-15 men in the huddle before breaking) before it was closed.

I do think something needs to be done about defenses not having enough time to substitute against hurry-up offenses.  A fairly simple rule change would be to require the playclock to go down to say, 15 or 20 seconds before the ball can be snapped.  (There would be an exception for the final minute of a half.)  That would still allow teams to operate at a fairly brisk pace but not the hyper-fast " jet" pace that pretty much forces a D to never substitute.

Alton

December 10th, 2013 at 6:49 PM ^

That idea (the mandatory 15-second wait) would make a well-run 2-minute drill much less thrilling than it is right now, and would make a 2-minute drill too dependent on ball carriers getting out of bounds, which isn't really an exciting football skill.

Perhaps only mandate the 15 second wait if the offense makes a substitution.  If the offense keeps the same package on the field, then the defense can't complain that they don't have time to make their substitutions--they should have already made them the play before.

Although I personally think the hurry-up is not the problem--the problem is that the offense has too many other advantages (including the use of hands on the offensive line and the way pass interference is called, as others have mentioned).

MGoMarc

December 10th, 2013 at 1:38 PM ^

Once I read "3 downs instead of 4 or having to go 15 yards for a first down instead of 10" in the first e-mail I fully expected to see a "/s" at the end.

Ranch Doritos

December 10th, 2013 at 1:44 PM ^

I think if Funchess did not change his number from 19 to 87 this year, then he would have been given number 1 next season. That dude is just a fucking beast and cannot be covered by the average to above average CB or LB.

MattPat

December 10th, 2013 at 1:55 PM ^

While the jury may still be out on the young backs, a few things are apparent. Derrick Green's style of running is not suited for a 235lb body. I expect him to be about 225/220 next season. He's much more of a slasher, jump cut type back then a power runner. Smith on the other hand, could probably benefit from weight gain (not that he needs to). His balance is what stands out to me, he's very hard to get on the ground. And while his top end speed isn't great, his vision and fluidity between the tackles is impressive.       Regarding nose tackle, considering Pee Wee's injury, Bryan Mone will be an immediate factor, has the size and strength to play now. Is he enrolling early?