Why the NFL can't hold a flame to college Football
Disclaimer
I'm going to preface my case for why NFL football can never hold a flame to college football by saying that it is entirely possible my perception is warped. I grew up in/near Detroit. The Lions have been god awful the vast majority of my life. Michigan has been bad for one year of my life. This surely skews my fandom of NFL football versus NCAA football. I haven't paid much attention to the Lions for five years now since following Art Regner's lead and being "Lions free."
Also: I don't necessarily think I'm going to convince anyone of my position, nor do I want to necessarily. I just feel the need to explain why the NFL is a relative bore as compared to college football.
Rationale
There are probably dozens of reasons I could come up with if I sat here and just thought and thought and thought about this and just typed them as they came to me. However, what follows are the main thoughts that have lived with me for several years now.
1. The NFL offenses/defenses are just boring, anymore.
Maybe I was spoiled and turned off of the pro-set offense and the 4-3/3-4 offense and defense combinations by the Carr/DeBord era but I have trouble watching NFL games anymore because of the sheer boredom. There are three types of offense (or so it seems in the NFL) the power run game , the spread pass game, the west coast offense. The most innovation that has come out of the NFL in the past decade is the wildcat and the implementation of the spread offense in the passing attack (see NE Patriots). I theorize this is the case because of the fear of losing one's job and/or the relative level field between all the different teams' talent so that you don't have to make up for your roster of 2 and 3 star talent versus mostly 5 stars. Nothing was more exciting to me than watching a WVU game when RichRod was there, or watching Florida or Oklahoma do their thing or Nevada and the pistol or GaTech and the triple option resurgence. coaches are willing to mix things up in college either due to necessity or lack of prsssure or whatever it may be. It makes the games a lot more entertaining... it even makes picking games/previewing games more interesting...there are infinitely more matchups in terms of offensive styles vs. defensive styles to account for in college than the pros and its fun to see which way it will all shake out.
2. The traditions. The NFL has traditions, sure. But it seems like so many of them are just soulless and more a fun novelty than an actual carried on legacy attached to a program or team.
3. Rivalries. The NFL has rivalries, sure.... Denver and Oakland, Green Bay and Chicago, Indianapolis and New England, the NFC East. But the rivalries feel so muted and more novelty than reality when you take into account the college game. M v. MSU, M v. ND, M v. OSU, OU vs. Texas, Florida vs. Florida State, Miami (that Miami) vs. Florida State, etc. these are games that we live and die by, these are games that some people remember forever. There's so much more history with these collegiate programs and their rivalries than the NFL ones.
4. No Fun League. Some people think some of the things players do (see: Ochocinco) are over the top and should not be a part of the game. Some of his and TOs antics I would agree, don't belong in the sport. That's not to say that celebration or the natural release of emotion after a huge play or a huge victory doesn't belong. I see there being a difference between MANY NFL players and the celebrations that occur in college. The NFL celebrations seem to calculated and designed and directed at creating controversy and attention rather than just being elated at the fact that you scored or that you're helping your team's cause. The NFL takes itself very seriously and a lot of that kills the joy in it for me. The contract nonsense of holdouts and trade demands etc is just ridiculous. There's no loyalty or pride (in the good sense) from either the management/coaches or the players.
Conclusion
I still watch NFL football a lot of the time. I will not go so far as to say that I dislike it. However, largely I watch it for fantasy football. I really enjoy that aspect of it. I feel no attachment to any NFL team, probably because of the Lions awfulness for my entire life. I just watch as a bystander in every NFL game with no vested interest. My fantasy team is the team I root for...That's a lot less satisfying than cheering U of M on Saturdays. Or listening to the radio when I'm at work and not wanting to miss a moment of it. and rushing home after work on Saturdays to watch my DVR to see exactly how everything went down. I'm not sure there's anything the NFL could do to persuade me back to their side of the argument. College football's product is better, its more fun to watch, it has more creativity, more passion, and more risk taking than the NFL has had for decades. Saturdays are the holy days to me. (and no, I'm not a jew)
I'm going to preface my case for why NFL football can never hold a flame to college football by saying that it is entirely possible my perception is warped. I grew up in/near Detroit. The Lions have been god awful the vast majority of my life. Michigan has been bad for one year of my life. This surely skews my fandom of NFL football versus NCAA football. I haven't paid much attention to the Lions for five years now since following Art Regner's lead and being "Lions free."
Also: I don't necessarily think I'm going to convince anyone of my position, nor do I want to necessarily. I just feel the need to explain why the NFL is a relative bore as compared to college football.
Rationale
There are probably dozens of reasons I could come up with if I sat here and just thought and thought and thought about this and just typed them as they came to me. However, what follows are the main thoughts that have lived with me for several years now.
1. The NFL offenses/defenses are just boring, anymore.
Maybe I was spoiled and turned off of the pro-set offense and the 4-3/3-4 offense and defense combinations by the Carr/DeBord era but I have trouble watching NFL games anymore because of the sheer boredom. There are three types of offense (or so it seems in the NFL) the power run game , the spread pass game, the west coast offense. The most innovation that has come out of the NFL in the past decade is the wildcat and the implementation of the spread offense in the passing attack (see NE Patriots). I theorize this is the case because of the fear of losing one's job and/or the relative level field between all the different teams' talent so that you don't have to make up for your roster of 2 and 3 star talent versus mostly 5 stars. Nothing was more exciting to me than watching a WVU game when RichRod was there, or watching Florida or Oklahoma do their thing or Nevada and the pistol or GaTech and the triple option resurgence. coaches are willing to mix things up in college either due to necessity or lack of prsssure or whatever it may be. It makes the games a lot more entertaining... it even makes picking games/previewing games more interesting...there are infinitely more matchups in terms of offensive styles vs. defensive styles to account for in college than the pros and its fun to see which way it will all shake out.
2. The traditions. The NFL has traditions, sure. But it seems like so many of them are just soulless and more a fun novelty than an actual carried on legacy attached to a program or team.
3. Rivalries. The NFL has rivalries, sure.... Denver and Oakland, Green Bay and Chicago, Indianapolis and New England, the NFC East. But the rivalries feel so muted and more novelty than reality when you take into account the college game. M v. MSU, M v. ND, M v. OSU, OU vs. Texas, Florida vs. Florida State, Miami (that Miami) vs. Florida State, etc. these are games that we live and die by, these are games that some people remember forever. There's so much more history with these collegiate programs and their rivalries than the NFL ones.
4. No Fun League. Some people think some of the things players do (see: Ochocinco) are over the top and should not be a part of the game. Some of his and TOs antics I would agree, don't belong in the sport. That's not to say that celebration or the natural release of emotion after a huge play or a huge victory doesn't belong. I see there being a difference between MANY NFL players and the celebrations that occur in college. The NFL celebrations seem to calculated and designed and directed at creating controversy and attention rather than just being elated at the fact that you scored or that you're helping your team's cause. The NFL takes itself very seriously and a lot of that kills the joy in it for me. The contract nonsense of holdouts and trade demands etc is just ridiculous. There's no loyalty or pride (in the good sense) from either the management/coaches or the players.
Conclusion
I still watch NFL football a lot of the time. I will not go so far as to say that I dislike it. However, largely I watch it for fantasy football. I really enjoy that aspect of it. I feel no attachment to any NFL team, probably because of the Lions awfulness for my entire life. I just watch as a bystander in every NFL game with no vested interest. My fantasy team is the team I root for...That's a lot less satisfying than cheering U of M on Saturdays. Or listening to the radio when I'm at work and not wanting to miss a moment of it. and rushing home after work on Saturdays to watch my DVR to see exactly how everything went down. I'm not sure there's anything the NFL could do to persuade me back to their side of the argument. College football's product is better, its more fun to watch, it has more creativity, more passion, and more risk taking than the NFL has had for decades. Saturdays are the holy days to me. (and no, I'm not a jew)
September 29th, 2009 at 3:13 PM ^
using "chic" in conversation is almost as bad as using "classy."
And for the record, I essentially watch football Thursday through Monday, and could give two shits on a debate between the merits of the NFL and NCAA.
September 29th, 2009 at 1:42 PM ^
1. They run what works. Guess what? The option won't work in the NFL. It's been tried. It's never going to work on a fulltime basis. There is no need to create the spread option when you have just as good of players as your opponent.
2. Explain to me, seriously, what traditions Michigan has that are something more are full of soul or aren't fun novelties.
3. Why would you expect cities of several million people to be as devoted to a single team and thus to that team's rival as schools of several thousand? To actual, serious fans of NFL teams... the kind who devote as much attention to, say, the Lions as we do to Michigan are as serious about beating the Packers as we are about OSU.
4. Do you honestly think if Tate Forcier wasn't on a short leash that he wouldn't celebrate just like TO or Ochocinco? You can discipline an 18 year old, not so much a 30 year old.
September 29th, 2009 at 1:44 PM ^
I agree that it is all subjective and there is really only one person on this thread that seems to have any interest in trying to pursuade everyone that his opinion is right.
I am simply going to say that I am a much bigger fan of College Football. I can't really explain why, I used to be a fan of the NFL but just lost interest. It may be that in college there is a feeling that the kids are simply playing for the love of the game where the pros are after their pay cheque. This is true to a degree but the reason most of the kids are playing so hard is so they can get to that point so they too can get paid.
I think it is the rivalries that put it over the top for me. The little brown jugs, Paul Bunyan trophies, the game etc etc etc are what set the two apart IME.
I just find it more exciting and intense. I rarely even watch the NFL anymore and when I do it is usually just to follow former wolverines. I am probably too passionate about them should truth be told.
FYI I live in Nova Scotia Canada so there are no major pro or college sports teams to sway my convictions which may also factor into it. Anyway, it is college football all the way for me.
September 29th, 2009 at 1:48 PM ^
i'm not trying to convince anyone that i'm right. but i hate sitting here and have something i truly enjoyed belittled by a bunch of people who think you have to have a marching band to have a real football game.
it's absurd when a blog full of people who don't know what a flag route is and are entranced by the most basic football term primer ever try to tell everyone that the NFL is somehow "lesser" of a game than the college level.
fucking beautiful.
peace.
September 29th, 2009 at 2:13 PM ^
1. my diary was not a mandatory read.
2. "blog full of people who don't know what a flag route is" - now who's issuing blanket statements? Just like the rest of society there are varying degrees of understanding and knowledge on this blog. Brian, Tim, etc have way more football knowledge than I, admittedly, I have more knowledge than a lot of the dudes in the UFR FAQ thread who don't know what a "flag route" is.
3. I could give a fuck what you love. I'm telling you why I think pro football is boring. If you're that hypersensitive to people's opinions that are contrary to yours I finally understand why you're the dickiest user in the history of the internet and I suggest you don't hang out on blogs which you don't author since they are -gasp- opinions and may run afront to yours.
September 29th, 2009 at 3:10 PM ^
i don't follow.
you posted an opinion.
i stated a dissenting opinion.
i should leave because i can't handle dissenting opinions, because my dissenting opinion pissed you off.
is that the gist?
September 29th, 2009 at 11:02 PM ^
your general douchebaggery is what pisses me off.
I could care less that you prefer NFL football to college...I just think if you're going to get all worked up about about us saying why we don't like it you should step away from the internets.
oh and before you say you didn't get worked up... you posted the first post with "you're not going to convince me of this" despite my disclaimer... and you also said you hated sitting here while people bashed something that you enjoyed.
September 30th, 2009 at 9:42 AM ^
Why should everyone else care that you prefer college football to the NFL? You posted on this first. Are we all supposed to sit and nod in agreement?
September 29th, 2009 at 2:54 PM ^
Now everyone that disagrees with you must know nothing about football or obviously they would see things your way. That's fucking beautiful.
I think this grand poohbah thing is going to your head.
September 29th, 2009 at 3:07 PM ^
your right, the guy who thinks people that use "classy" in any conversation should be castrated isn't a very "classy" guy.
i don't care if people like college ball better. you are missing the point. just because you like something better doesn't mean pros are mercenary jackoffs and only idiots like watching the NFL. i don't like hockey but i don't call everyone that watches it a french speaking eskimo fucker. i just don't like it. it's a great sport probably. but i don't skate and i've never played and it doesn't interest me.
i like how i'm the asshole but the people who essentially say that anyone who likes the NFL is a soul-less, boring drone are bastions of tolerance and open minded thinking.
September 29th, 2009 at 3:15 PM ^
I know you have been a user of this blog for a long time so you know how it works. Maybe you should channel your frustration towards those who are actually making those comments instead of just throwing them in every direction. I never said anything bad about people who watch the NFL or that it sucked or anything like that. I simply said I would rather watch NCAA football, period.
September 29th, 2009 at 3:34 PM ^
i get a little wild with my swings sometimes
September 29th, 2009 at 1:50 PM ^
Oh please. I hate this love of the game nonsense. They're playing because it's the only way to get into the NFL. Tate Forcier is at Michigan because he wants to play in the NFL. Pryor is at OSU because he wants to play in the NFL.
Maybe some kids are in it for the education, but "love of the game" is way down the list.
September 29th, 2009 at 2:44 PM ^
If you aren't responding to me I am sorry for the misunderstanding, if you are than perhaps you missed this:
"This is true to a degree but the reason most of the kids are playing so hard is so they can get to that point so they too can get paid."
Again, if your response was to someone else than sorry, but if it was at me you should read the entire post before you call what I say nonsense.
I would also challange your "way down the list". If I always wanted to become something in life it would likely because I was passionate about it. I would wager that many of these guys do love the game they are aspiring to make a living playing.
September 29th, 2009 at 4:31 PM ^
Agreed. I find it impossible to believe that any human being would put up with Barwis only because they want to make it to the NFL. To go through the sheer hell they do, there must be a real passion in their lives for football. That's what RR says he looks for when he recruits, "players who love football". Money only motivates to a certain degree, and I'd have a hard time staying motivated for four years only under the hope that I would one day get paid.
That being said, I'm sure there are plenty of players who love football in the NFL. But it's such a business I think it takes some of the joy out of it for the average player. What started out as fun can become more drudgery after a while. Do I have any real evidence to back this up other than players' quotes that "it's a business, man"? Not really, other than the subjective feel I get from watching the players' emotions.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:10 AM ^
Perhaps they go through Barwis's training because they think it will make them more likely to earn millions of dollars? I think making an accusation like "Well, he's getting paid he clearly loves the game less" is absurd to the highest degree.
September 30th, 2009 at 7:40 AM ^
You are the one that said the love of the game is way down the list...........
September 29th, 2009 at 1:57 PM ^
Plain and simple, college football and Saturdays in the fall cannot be beat, IME. I love the debate and love to hate the BCS rankings. I love the quirkiness of college, how a flea flicker, statue of liberty play or a wacky spread offense can be successful. I love how a team can win 70-7 one week and then lose 10-2 the following week. College = variety = excitement. School pride, great rivalries, traditions built over 100+ years, etc. It's just great.
It seems like when Sunday rolls around I'd rather be playing golf or fiddling around with some other hobbies, rather than watching NFL football. I have tried watching and liking the NFL but it seems impossible for me to generate an affinity towards it. Maybe because it is streamlined, commercial and vanilla? I don't know. Field goal kickers rarely miss inside 45 yards. NFL overtimes are predictable (win the coin toss and you generally win the game). The mic'd up crowd noise on Fox & CBS gives me a headache. The NBA is sort of in the same boat for me.
September 29th, 2009 at 4:03 PM ^
I completely agree. But I have to admit that part of my apathy about the NFL is most games are on Sundays. It's hard to get excited knowing you have to work the next day. Saturday college games have no strings attached. Have fun knowing you can party or do whatever you want that day. I know that's part of it for me.
As for the NBA, I've been a Pistons fan for years, but when U-M basketball is "on", I prefer college. I've been out of it for the past 10 years or so as U-M went to the b-ball wilderness, but as I return I realize the excitement of March Madness beats anything the NBA has to offer. With all the talent the NBA has, it's boring, pure and simple. I will watch the Pistons due to an emotional attachment, all the while being bored by the style of play. There's just something about a college atmosphere...
September 29th, 2009 at 2:00 PM ^
its not 'hold a flame' its hold a 'candle' you moran.
geez.
potato salad.
September 29th, 2009 at 3:04 PM ^
"moron," you moron.
September 30th, 2009 at 10:02 AM ^
Hi, welcome to "Internet Memes 101".
Now who's the moran?
Now who's the moran?September 29th, 2009 at 2:22 PM ^
high school football and college football get me way more exicited than nfl. friday and saturday are the best days of the week, and i get to watch football on them too! sunday just has that "aww crap tomorrow is monday" feeling. and there's also the feeling of school pride.
"...after this you will never play for a team again, you'll play for a contract, you'll play for this, you'll play for that, you'll play for everything except the team..."
September 29th, 2009 at 2:45 PM ^
is watching my boy on his JV team start at center and linebacker. Then going to the Varsity game. Then going to every Michigan home game together. I don't even turn on the TV on Sunday.
September 29th, 2009 at 2:23 PM ^
Meaning
To compare badly to an known authority - to be unfit even to hold a subordinate position.
Origin
Apprentices used to be expected to hold the candle so that more experienced workmen were able to see what they were doing. Someone unable even to do that would be of low status indeed.
September 29th, 2009 at 2:41 PM ^
Maybe the reason there appears to be more excitement in college football is the fact that in a college season there are more than 700 games plus what 34 bowls in div 1a (FBS) alone. In the NFL there are only 256 games plus the postseason. That's almost 3 times as many games and thus three times as much chance for an exciting ending or seeing something new. I'm more of a college fan myself, but I definitely wouldn't sell the NFL short. That game is exciting. Those are men at the absolute peak of their physical lives performing the best they ever will.
September 29th, 2009 at 3:54 PM ^
I grew up in Detroit, so I am a Lions fan. I was there when the Lions hired Bobby Ross and got so excited I bought season tickets for a couple of years. But, then the Lions being the Lions, I could not take it anymore. For the last five years or so, I like you, have been uninterested in the Lions. They've been terrible, so I just didn't care.
However, this last weekend, I watched the Lions-Redskins game since I live in DC. I was stunned, of course, that the Lions won, but besides that, I noticed a familiar feeling I get when watching NFL games: boredom. Now maybe it's boredom because I just don't get emotionally involved in the Lions anymore, but I think it's more than that. Having attended two years of Lions games, I know it's more than that; I felt the same feeling then. In fact, I fell asleep a couple of times at Lions games during that long stretch. So for me at least, the NFL is not close to college football. I enjoy a random college game much more than a random NFL game. Here are some of the reasons for me:
1. Low-scoring games. When I look at the scoreboard of college games and compare them to NFL games, it seems that usually there are a lot more points scored in college games and many more of the "shootout" variety. The defenses are just too good in the NFL.
2. NFL coaches are much more risk-averse, usually choosing to reduce variance by punting on 4th and 1 at their opponent's 40. In college games, going for it in this situation is at least as common as not. NFL coaches seem to have a similar philosophy to Big 10 coaches, being very conservative and playing field position football. There are exceptions, but in a league where talent is roughly equally distributed amongst the teams, it seems the best philosophy (to keep your job at least) is to play things by the book. Take no unnecessary chances or the talk radio machine will destroy you the next day.
3. Nostalgia. Watching college football on a college campus reminds me of when I was a student on a college campus. The emotional impact of this cannot be underestimated. There is nothing equivalent in an NFL game.
4. Enthusiasm of the players. This is very subjective, but it's real. Contrast the bench in the Michigan-Indiana game to the bench during the Detroit - Washington game. The college benches are lively, with smiling players, high-fives, genuine emotion being plainly obvious. Watching the Lions game, even with the Lions winning, I noticed very little emotion at all on the bench. The players looked like robots. Same on the field. They seem to do their job, collect the check, but don't really look into it. I realize given the Lions' losing streak this is a poor example, but I notice this in most NFL games I watch. Monday Night games seem to be a little more lively, but the closest thing to the college atmosphere the NFL has is the playoffs.
5. Pageantry and history. College football has centuries-long rivalries, playing for trophies like the Little Brown Jug. It has bowl games each with a unique history, including (ugh) parades and such. It has legendary coaches and legendary stories. And it also has many more teams, thus that much more of this than the NFL. The NFL has some similarities here, but really rivalries and legends are its strengths. The Super Bowl is relatively young and it's a single event.
I'll admit that my current bond with Michigan is much greater than with any other sports team so that might prejudice me some. But I did grow up with the Lions and I was a Lions fan as much as a U-M fan for years. The Lions lost me along their journey to the land of suckitude. But I still remember enjoying random college games more than NFL games, so I'm convinced there's something about the NFL that just doesn't do it for me.
September 29th, 2009 at 6:05 PM ^
On risk aversion: one thing no one has brought up is that college players are younger (duh) and less experienced than pro players. This means they are more suceptible to mental and momentum factors than a group of pro players. So a college coach has more to gain going for it near midfield as the psychological boost to his team is much greater.
Also, the age/experience factor might explain why a singular personality like Bo can take over a program from top to bottom in college and lead it single handedly whereas this is much rarer in the pros (Belichick, and Parcells with the Fins are counterexamples but those are exceptions that prove the rule.)
On the excitement on the benches: I have read that NFL teams today are basically two teams - O and D, which practice apart and are essentially uninvolved with one another during the day to day operations. This contributes to teams not being up on the bench, they just don't know their teammates like they do in college. This may be happening in college as well, but I don't think it is anywhere near as severe.
September 29th, 2009 at 3:24 PM ^
"I feel no attachment to any NFL team, probably because of the Lions awfulness for my entire life. I just watch as a bystander in every NFL game with no vested interest."
I think this is it. It's the level of attachment that defines CFB fans and NFL fans more than style of play or tradition. We love college ball because we sort of have a vested interest in it. Many of us grew up with it, have family that was interested in it or attended the school. There's many others that don't have that type of connection, so they form an attachment to their local team instead. Some are lucky enough to have both. I think it's more a fan's exposure to a team than the style of play, tradition or rivalries. Just my $.02
September 29th, 2009 at 3:33 PM ^
see, that's all fine. some people DO have an attachment to NFL teams though.
i'm not accusing you guys of doing this, but MANY people like to paint with a huge brush and say that since THEY don't have an emotional attachment to the NFL that no one else can either.
i have a tremendous, no question Jim, amount of respect for anyone that makes it to the NFL level. i enjoy watching these guys work hard and play their asses off. i enjoy the fact they are the very best in the world at playing football.
and yes, i get pissed when people try to paint all NFL fans as mouth-breathing idiots. i like football, so why wouldn't i like watching the best football players?
September 29th, 2009 at 4:30 PM ^
I'm not disagreeing with you at all. Heck, I'd plus 1 you if I could. I don't agree with the original poster's opinion, but he mentioned something that I think gets to the real issue. He originally mentioned things like play style, tradition and rivalry, but then he mentioned attachment and so-called vested interest. He doesn't have an attachment or vested interest in the NFL, so fine. But that's different than play-style or any of those other things he first mentioned. It goes back to what got him interested in the first place.
I mentioned things that influence a fan in becoming attached to a team in the first place, like family, local teams, attending the school, etc. Sometimes those influences creates CFB fans, sometimes it creates NFL fans and sometimes it creates fans of both. They all end up having an emotional attachment to that team.
So yeah, people can definitely have an attachment to NFL team just as much as any other team. I have no doubt about that. And they are not mouth-breating idiots. If that's what you took from my comment, that's definitely not what I was trying to say. I think we actually agree with each other even if I'm not very good at getting my idea across.
September 29th, 2009 at 4:32 PM ^
I didn't mean to imply that you thought NFL fans were idiots. I liked your post.
I was going to reply at the bottom and reference it but the filter here was working up so I couldn't - I had to reply to your comment to get a post on the thread. I should have mentioned that, not everything I was saying was meant at you.
September 29th, 2009 at 11:19 PM ^
I can not say I don't respect NFL players, or that NFL fans are any less of human beings or any less intelligent than any other type of fan out there....
hell soccer fans murder people if a game goes against them and I don't think any less of them. You like what sports you like. I was never trying to call anyone out for liking pro football. I'm glad you and other NFL fans have an attachment to a team. Like I said in the OP...I may not have the same opinion if I had that attachment. I didn't have much desire for any NFL team after Barry Sanders retired. I enjoyed watching LaDanian Tomlinson in his prime, I love watching Brady, I fucking hate Peyton Manning with a passion but he's an amazing machine out there because of how good he really is...I just don't have it for any team. I watch it for fantasy football. I can NEVER claim that I'm right you're wrong when it comes to this because the NFL is the single biggest sports league in maybe the entire world.
You just piss me off because you throw daggers at everyone for everything and get away with it. Maybe I'm jealous, maybe I hate it...I don't know. You're borderline troll and people love you. Makes no damn sense to me. I have nothing against you personally, you just piss me off when you e-punt people in the mouth and its completely unwarranted AND have a following for seemingly doing just that. Truth be told some of the WLA stuff that I've read is pretty damn classic. Some if it is stupid. I think no less of any of you..I just think you all need to CHILL THE FUCK OUT sometimes.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:08 AM ^
This ignores some facts:
1. A very small number of college football fans have a vested interest in the schools they cheer for. Most fandom in college sports is based on the same thing pro sports fandom is based on: location.
2. The majority of football fans prefer the NFL and all numbers bare this out.
September 29th, 2009 at 4:52 PM ^
the end of game and variety arguments are legitimate as to why the nfl is better, but the "passion for the game" is bullshit. if you've ever watched "hard knocks" or watched the behavior of NFL players, they clearly care very much about whether they win or lose.
obviously, this is a college football message board, people are not going to like CFB more that the NFL. all the arguments about the lack of rivalry, tradition, innovation, etc -- that's just a lack of knowledge by people who admittedly don't follow the NFL very much. its natural that people who watch more CFB like CFB.
if you go to a NFL team message board and ask the same question, i'm sure it'd be the same answers, except reversed. there's no point in arguing about it here when the userbase is incredibly slanted in one direction.
September 29th, 2009 at 5:17 PM ^
seems a little more sterile than college. I am a Colts fan through and through but if the Colts lose I am hardly upset about it. When Michigan looses I am upset for days. I enjoy Nfl football and I don't play fantasy football, because it is a major waste of time, but there is something missing from the Nfl game that college has, Atmosphere plays a big factor, and the atmosphere is good in the NFL, but nothing like Saturdays at the big house.
September 29th, 2009 at 6:20 PM ^
This brings up another issue. Here we have a Colts fan, but he will have to argue with a Baltimore Colts fan over which is the "real" Colts fan.
Michigan football ain't never loading up the semis and moving to another state. No how, no way.
That might be another piece of it - CFB is a mint for the sickeningly over-plated college sports enterprise, but the NFL with its CBA, free agent discussions, draft finances, stadium deals etc etc exposes America to the business side of the league on a daily basis. And even capitalistic people are sometimes disgusted when they see the "sausage being made" of successful businesses.
Bill Martin has to make sure UM athletics is in the black (or is it blue?) but John Clayton doesn't camp out and report on it.
September 29th, 2009 at 7:39 PM ^
One reason I like college football more is that with few exceptions (Boren, Mallett) the players that I cheer for on Saturdays will start and finish their career at Michigan.
September 29th, 2009 at 8:27 PM ^
I know this isn't practical.
I know it's never going to happen.
But all you'd need to do to make NFL ball as exciting as NCAA ball is adjust the size of the field to account for the speed of the players. If you had MLB pitchers throwing on a tee-ball field, or NBA athletes dunking on eight foot rims, you'd have a dull game, right? The structure of football even acknowledges this, if you consider that the hash marks shrink from HS to college to the pros. There is an understanding that as players grow in speed and strength, the dimensions of the field of play must grow accordingly to preserve a constant range of tactics.
If we didn't have legacy fields in place, I'd suggest that NFL fields grow by 10% or so in length and breadth, to stretch the field, to make a sweep more likely, blah blah blah.
September 29th, 2009 at 8:42 PM ^
i actually don't hate this idea
September 29th, 2009 at 8:57 PM ^
Point 4 is an extremely valid criticism of the NFL. It seems like any time a player tries to have a little fun (not even offensive fun), the NFL steps in and "regulates" the celebration. It's sickening. After all, you have to remember that you are in the entertainment business. This has become so bad that Chad Johnson, frustrated at not being allowed to have a little fun with his jersey, went to the extent of legally changing his name (for the record, I think Ochocinco is retarded, but if the NFL had just let him have his fun, he might not have done that).
However, 1-3 are wrong. I think this is just your perception having grown up in Michigan. I grew up very close to New York City as a die-hard Eagles fan. I have been to a Giants-Eagles game in the Meadowlands (with a divisional race hanging in the balance) and OSU-Michigan in the Big House, and I can tell you the intensity was pretty much the same. The same holds true for rivalries across the NFL. Patriots-Jets has a similar intensity, and fans remain upset for days after the results of these games.
As for the offenses and defenses being boring, this is rapidly changing. For one, look at the development of the Wildcat formation. For another, offensive sophistication exists to a large extent (look at the Patriots, the Eagles, etc). Innovative offenses have changed the game. In fact, I would argue that offenses of some teams (Saints, Eagles, Patriots, Colts) are more creative than some boring college offenses (the triple option, anything from Ohio State, Iowa, Wisconsin, etc). And defenses in the NFL are MUCH less boring than in college. I grew up watching Jim Johnson terrorize opponents with his vast array of blitzes, and it really was a thing of beauty. You have less gimmick offenses in the NFL, but much more sophistication and even creativity.
And ask Green Bay fans if they don't have tradition. The Lambeau Leap is still alive. Ask rowdy Philly fans on South Street if they don't still sing Fight Eagles Fight every Sunday. Ask Oakland fans in the Blackhole if they have tradition. Ask the hogs in Washington (insert obligatory Lions beat Redskins joke here) if they are just a fun novelty.
But all that aside, the two reasons why the NFL owns college football are:
1. Quality of Play. Simply put, these are athletic freaks. These are the best players in the country and they are capable of things that push the limits of humanity.
2. Playoffs!(?) Yes. The BCS has ruined college football for me. The Super Bowl Champion is undisputed. The Super Bowl and playoffs are a ton of fun to watch. Bowl games are just a way to pass the time during winter break (unless Michigan is on, of course).
September 29th, 2009 at 9:37 PM ^
"I have been to a Giants-Eagles game in the Meadowlands (with a divisional race hanging in the balance) and OSU-Michigan in the Big House, and I can tell you the intensity was pretty much the same. The same holds true for rivalries across the NFL. Patriots-Jets has a similar intensity, and fans remain upset for days after the results of these games."
...but you just killed your own point. UM-OSU is HUGE no matter what the stakes are. Ditto Army-Navy, Alabama-Auburn, etc. Without that divisional race, Eagles-Giants is just another game. If Miami and Buffalo take over the AFC East, there's not going to be the same intensity to the Pats-Jets series.
Hell, the supposedly-hot Eagles-Bucs rivalry featured a game where the Eagles sat all their starters because they were going to play next week in the playoffs. That would NEVER happen in a college rivalry.
"For one, look at the development of the Wildcat formation."
It sounds like you sort of parachuted into this thread without a decent knowledge of college football...what became the Wildcat at Arkansas had been developing in the college game for a decade until the NFL pretended they invented it last September in the Fins-Pats game. Also, the Wildcat is not a "formation." Unconstrained by the fraternity, free agency and paranoia, college schemes evolve faster and more naturally.
"are more creative than some boring college offenses (the triple option"
I find the triple option quite exciting - unless you don't care for running backs breaking long runs down the sideline and defenses doubling over themselves in confusion. I do, however, find a chuck and duck, 40-passes-a-game NFL offense, punctuated by field goals and endless commercials, pretty dry.
"But all that aside, the two reasons why the NFL owns college football are:"
The NFL does not "own" college football. The NFL has a broad-based national appeal, but the economy is showing how fickle they are as franchises lose ticketholders. Key: more people watch the top ten college games in person than watch the top ten NFL games. College attendance at the top is greater by considerable margin (at least five NCAA stadiums are larger than the largest NFL arena).
I never bought that "The Super Bowl Champion is undisputed." The 15-5 Giants were better than the 18-1 New England Patriots. Right? Wrong, and everyone knows it, so while I might accept the playoff system for reasons of expediency, I ain't gonna believe the best team wins it. Back when it was just two rounds, maybe, but four rounds introduces way too much noise. In fact, all extended playoffs do is make proven teams work harder than they should by playing against second-place competitors who blew their chance to show they were the real deal.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:03 AM ^
"It sounds like you sort of parachuted into this thread without a decent knowledge of college football...what became the Wildcat at Arkansas had been developing in the college game for a decade until the NFL pretended they invented it last September in the Fins-Pats game."
Jeez, you'd think you'd back yourself up with some facts here, but nope. The Wildcat was invented 100 years ago, run in all levels of football for decades and then abandoned as the forward pass came into it's own. That it resembles the spread option RichRod "invented" should be a clue as to how little innovation there is in football.
September 30th, 2009 at 10:06 AM ^
No sport determines "the best team". The NHL lets in practically every team to the playoffs. MLB has the best regular season for determining "best team" because it has the largest sample size, but the champion is determined by wildly unpredictable 7 game series. College excludes over half of the FBS teams before the season begins practically and only then two teams get to play for the "title".
The Super Bowl Champion isn't, and never was, supposed to crown the "best team". It crowns the "Super Bowl Champion".
And frankly, you are some sort of delusional if you think comparing the top ten attendances each week tell you what the more popular sport is. For one, the NFL games charge more money and make more money from ticket sales than college games despite a smaller attendance. Two, the NFL absolutely murders every other sport in the country in terms of television ratings, ad revenue, and exposure.
NOTE: THIS DOES NOT MAKE THE NFL "BETTER" THAN ANY OTHER SPORT
But it is undisputed fact. I defy you to find a number that proves the NCAA football pulls in more cash than the NFL. For instance, from Forbes Magazine:
"Pro football is also the most profitable sport on the planet (mean operating income in 2006 was $17.8 million on $204 million in revenue). Although its television ratings have slipped in the past decade, the NFL still beats the daylights out of other prime-time programming, including every other sport. Nearly three out of every four Americans watched an NFL game on television last season."
Again, THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT BETTER but to say the NCAA is even comparable to the NFL in terms of business is widly inaccurate. When the Big Ten gets a multi-billion dollar TV deal maybe you can make that assertion.
September 30th, 2009 at 10:09 AM ^
Not to mention that the NFL doesn't have a stadium that seats as many as Michigan, Tennesee, Penn State, the Rose Bowl, or a number of other college stadiums.
September 30th, 2009 at 10:15 AM ^
Jerry's World pulled in 105k for their season opener - if that monstrosity proves to be a moneymaker I guaran-fucking-tee you'll see other owners eventually follow suit with 100k+ stadiums.
September 30th, 2009 at 10:23 AM ^
18 of the 20 largest football stadiums in the nation are in college:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_football_stadiums_by_capa…
That doesn't have Dallas's new stadium on it, previous to this season, college had 19 of the 20 largest football stadiums.
But, your insistence on saying "in person" skews the argument unreasonably in your favor, and ignores the overall popularity - more people watch each NFL Wildcard game than watch the NCAA Championship.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:38 PM ^
the history of college football (of all football, actually), with the most famous stadium, fight song, etc., prefers college football and all of its pageantry over the NFL. It is quite understandable that the college game "sings" to you, particularly when the local pro team has been the poster-child of futility of the NFL for something like forever.
If this was written by, say the Duke or Temple fan (and I haven't met either one of them, yet), it would be a little more remarkable.
Personally, I like (and dislike) both for different reasons.
There may be more games and more rivalries in college, but there are an abundance of games, year after agonizing year, of absolutely uncompetitive games. The major programs schedule home games against FCS teams, and often have only a couple of games through an entire year that where the outcome is in doubt before the kickoff (although this has gotten much better since the 1970's).
For every great rivalry game (Oklahoma-Nebraska), there are dead games like Oklahoma or Nebraska versus anyone not named Texas, or say Notre Dame-Navy. Then there is any game that Duke, Baylor, Vanderbilt, Temple, etc. play.
There is no denying that the pro games are much more competitive overall year in and year out; and the teams that are good change much more often than the college game. I guess that makes the pro game a little more democratic.
I like the variability of the offenses I see in the college game - that makes it a little more interesting. I like the more consistent, better play in the pro game. I like the running game, in all of its manifestations, in the college game. Is there even a running game in the pros?
I like the fact that I can continue to enjoy watching many of the college players I liked after they graduate.
Without the NCAA, the pro game is not the same (or even exists). But without the NFL, I think the college game would be drastically different as well; they are interdependent. For me, I just don't see the two as an either/or.
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