Open Friday Manti Te'o Thread: What would convince you that Te'o was duped? [New info]
For me it's pretty simple: the receipt for those white roses and his phone records. They should be pretty easy to produce. In fact, I bet he has already done so for that independent investigation paid for by Notre Dame. Either that or we can't trust Jack Swarbrick any more and that's just incomprehensible to me.
[ED - PGB: Put all of your Manti Te'o related comments here rather than starting new threads and bumping other content off the front page. Thanks!]
Mod edit two: BILG found this new piece on ESPN. I'd say it's big enough to go in the OP up here, but falls just short of needing a new one. If Te'o or ND has something to say, that should be a new thread; try to keep anything else in here. JGB
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8857057/friend-says-ronai...
January 18th, 2013 at 3:10 PM ^
The only way this could be better for Michigan fans who hate ND is if it turns out that it was Braxton Miller posing as Lennay Kekua and then Miller and Te'o get into an epic fist fight of the ages only to be simultaneously destroyed by Bo Schembechler riding on a Wolverine while Brady Hoke screams TREMENDOUS.
January 18th, 2013 at 11:18 AM ^
Unfortunately, I think the biggest sports story of our lifetime came from PSU.
January 18th, 2013 at 12:41 PM ^
Uh, no. The Jerry Sandusky thing.
January 19th, 2013 at 1:06 AM ^
January 18th, 2013 at 11:08 AM ^
January 18th, 2013 at 11:34 AM ^
There are theories out there that he would really enjoy it...
January 18th, 2013 at 11:15 AM ^
I mean, if I had a nickel for every time I either created a fictional woman and claimed she was the love of my life or called a woman I'd only met online the love of my life even though I was dating other girls and then made a big deal of her death on national television either while believing that she really did have a grieving family out there or while knowing that I was asking for sympathy for the death of a fictional person and then asked for even more sympathy for her death either while still knowing that she wasn't real or after learning that the woman was neither who I thought she was nor dead...Well, anyway, we've all been there, right?
January 18th, 2013 at 11:18 AM ^
Don't forget, she was the most beautiful girl in the world, not just her physical beauty, but her character.
January 18th, 2013 at 12:46 PM ^
The only way I can cut him some slack is he is terribly naive and was talked into creating this "girlfriend" as a rube, at first. Then as it went along he was kind of forced to keep playing it because it was like a practical joke. Even his teammates knew it was b.s. Then, boom, the other people pulling the strings on this thing KILL the bitch and make it this big national story. Now he's hooked and can't get out without a scandal. So he just keeps digging...
January 18th, 2013 at 11:09 AM ^
January 18th, 2013 at 1:45 PM ^
only if the purpose of it was primarily just to raise awareness
January 18th, 2013 at 11:09 AM ^
nothing at all. He was in on it. Notre Dame was in on it. What a mess.
January 18th, 2013 at 11:12 AM ^
I suppose I have watched too many crime movies and tv shows, but it reeks of criminal activity.
January 18th, 2013 at 11:16 AM ^
What personal gain did anyone make from this? What crime did anybody commit? Show me some money changing hands, and then the FBI can get involved.
January 18th, 2013 at 11:26 AM ^
None of us know that facts. And why is your tone defending anyone involved in this? would we defend you? would your colleagues defend you? are you serious? This will be investigate by every news outlet and the authorities, and it's naive to think otherwise.
January 18th, 2013 at 11:24 AM ^
maybe an intentional/negligent infliction of emotional distress? Hmmmm, hard to prove alone and usually only an element of a larger case. How much money was spent by Te'o? Did he buy her gifts? Did he pay for a plane ticket to Hawaii?
January 18th, 2013 at 11:38 AM ^
January 18th, 2013 at 11:33 AM ^
Perpetrating a hoax is not itself criminal activity. To be wire fraud (which is a federal crime), the use of the wires has to involve a "scheme or artifice to defraud," and that scheme has to directly involve the aquisition of money or property. Even if we assume the worst about Te'o's "scheme" was designed to obtained good will, which is not fraud. You could TRY to argue that his scheme was designed to increase his draft status, and therefore to obtain money, but there is no way that charge sticks. Besides, the use of the wires has to be done to accomplish an essential part of the scheme or artifice, and here the existence of phone calls to this fake person was not essential to, nor did it form part of, the scheme.
Now, if someone did perpetrate this hoax against Te'o to obtain money or something else, that might be textbook wire fraud.
(For reference: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1343)
January 18th, 2013 at 11:51 AM ^
Start rounding up Congress and the late night infomercial people.
January 18th, 2013 at 1:59 PM ^
now, I don't know all the details around it, but I'm pretty sure they did raise money at one point in this... not sure they collected the money on behalf of and who it went to though.
January 18th, 2013 at 2:54 PM ^
People began fund raisers to raise money for cancer awareness, but that didn't go to Manti, that went to research centers.
"Dan Tudesco set up an online account at fundraising website indiegogo.com on Jan. 9. His goal was to raise $5,000 for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society in memory of Lennay Kekua... He says the more than $4,300 raised will still go to the leukemia group." (ABCNews)
"Tudesco said he and three friends got the fundraising idea after seeing a video that went viral of Tudesco holding his head in dismay during the Irish's 42-14 loss to Alabama in the national championship game on Jan. 7.
The goal was to turn the loss -- and the player's sudden popularity -- into something positive.
'I think we were all kind of disappointed in the result of the game ... and the Manti story was very inspirational,' Tudesco told The Associated Press on Thursday....Tudesco said he doesn't know Te'o personally and had no contact with him or Notre Dame before setting up the fundraiser. He said money raised by his fundraiser will be held in reserve by indiegogo and released directly to the charity at the end of the campaign." (ESPN)
January 18th, 2013 at 11:12 AM ^
January 18th, 2013 at 11:13 AM ^
How would the phone records prove anything? Because it would hard for him to call a phone number, leave his phone next to the bed and hang up when he woke up in the morning?
You can't prove he as duped; you can only prove that he was in on it. Really, until there is some actual evidence that he was part of the hoax, people should probably just leave him alone. You know, innocent until proven guilty, and all that.
January 18th, 2013 at 11:20 AM ^
of those super long calls from his phone bill would prove he was complicit. but you are correct, if they are there they can be used to say that he was in on it and did that as part of the hoax, or that he was not in on it and was duped. but if they aren't on there then he was duped for sure.
What i'd like to hear is from his roommate (if he has one) - did he ever see Te'o make those calls?
January 18th, 2013 at 11:39 AM ^
January 18th, 2013 at 12:29 PM ^
This was not a super sophisticated hoax designed to hold up to serious media scrutiny. The girlfriend was a Stanford student - easily disproven. She could have simply been a fan attending the game. There was no attempt to plant a false obituary notice anywhere. Given that, I'm not inclined to believe Te'o would have done the detailed planning needed to show he was the innocent victim of a hoax in case it unraveled. I wasn't asking what would constitute absolute proof that he was duped, only what would make us believe it.
Upon reflection, the phone records might not make the best evidence. Of course the absence of those long calls would be damning, but I'm not sure how much their presence would mean. Manti implied that his family was paying his AT&T bill. If the fake girlfriend was an invention to fool his family, he would have anticipating their seeing those calls on the bill.
Innocent until proven guilty is for the legal system, not for the court of public opinion. We lack subpoena power.
January 18th, 2013 at 11:15 AM ^
Because he is not stupid. After all, ND fans keep telling me that ND's football players are so much smarter than everyone else. Maybe your typical D1 football player could fall back on the "I was duped" defense, but not a ND scholar athlete.
January 18th, 2013 at 11:20 AM ^
It is particularly odd that it happened to ND's heisman runner-up star linebacker.
I could see a player doing something stupid like this...but in these circumstaces there's gotta be more to it. Doesn't smell right.
I'm personally in favor of the "fake-girlfriend-so-I'm-not-outed-and-then-she/he-blackmailed-me-because-I'm-about-to-make-millions" theory...but who knows.
January 18th, 2013 at 11:29 AM ^
Right now, I think he was in on it to some degree. It's just unclear whether he was in it from the beginning or found out later and decided to keep running with it.
The only way I feel bad for him at all is if he is gay and either made it up to cover a relationship with a guy or was somehow being blackmailed. I would actually feel sad about our society if he felt like he needed to create this hoax because of the pressures of being a Morman athlete at a Catholic school in a sport that may not be the most welcoming to homosexuals. I still think lying is wrong in this situation, but I would feel better about his reasons for doing this than if he was just lying to help his Heisman campaign or because he was embarassed about the hoax.
January 18th, 2013 at 11:16 AM ^
that he didn't need the girlfriend story. He was already a hero to the ND fans. Why continue it?
Well, I guess a fake girlfriend is cheaper than a real one....Birthdays and anniversaries and what not.
January 18th, 2013 at 11:45 AM ^
Don't forget about fucking Valentine's Day.
January 18th, 2013 at 11:55 AM ^
However, Sweetest Day was invented by Hallmark and should be ignored.
January 18th, 2013 at 12:31 PM ^
At first I took this as a reply to goblueattorney's message above. But now I recognize this is simply a (somewhat random) public service announcement.
It would be nicer if you said "don't forget about making love on Valentine's Day" but it's a thoughtful reminder all the same.
January 18th, 2013 at 2:03 PM ^
Because Hubby and I don't celebrate it. It's a total racket. Florists jack up the prices for one week. Absurd. Our rule: whoever finds the funniest card, wins.
But you are right, Manti probably sent old fakey some crap for Valentine's Day as well as Sweetest Day....He seems pretty sappy.
January 18th, 2013 at 2:42 PM ^
You are a woman after my own heart. Also, sorry about my crass language. Just the thought of Valentine's Day makes me cringe. But no excuses - sorry about the f-bomb.
January 18th, 2013 at 11:23 AM ^
January 18th, 2013 at 12:16 PM ^
let this be true and let it come out.
January 18th, 2013 at 2:55 PM ^
January 18th, 2013 at 3:17 PM ^
You know, that was my first thought when this whole thing came out. I think he was just trying to add fuel to the "Te'o for Heisman" flames...
Certainly helped, you can't definitively say he wouldn't have finished second otherwise, but likewise you can't immediately dismiss the possibility that he might have ridden this story to New York either.
January 18th, 2013 at 11:26 AM ^
The fact that its been 2 days and he still hasn't spoken indicates he is trying to make up a plausible story to cover this up. Which at this point is impossible.
January 18th, 2013 at 12:04 PM ^
January 18th, 2013 at 12:14 PM ^
Signed,
Lance Armstong, Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire etc.
January 18th, 2013 at 12:23 PM ^
January 18th, 2013 at 11:26 AM ^
Maybe, but OTOH, if the "beard" hypothesis is correct, then him sending flowers wouldn't be evidence of him being duped - he could have just sent them to his boyfriend.
January 18th, 2013 at 11:32 AM ^
Even if the address belongs to a dude, how do we know that he is someone who catfished Te'o instead of Te'o's boyfriend.
January 18th, 2013 at 11:35 AM ^
January 18th, 2013 at 11:43 AM ^
January 18th, 2013 at 11:45 AM ^
He accidently outed himself as a Michigan fan (WolverineInABag) pretending to be a Tide fan.
January 18th, 2013 at 12:00 PM ^
I am happy that I am rich, successful, handsome, have any woman I want, and everything I touch turns to gold. Damn, it feels good to be a Michigan Man.
January 18th, 2013 at 1:19 PM ^
I dig it, TB...sucks that you had to share playing time with Henson all those times.