September 26th, 2009 at 3:16 PM ^
You sir, are a tool!!! Both MSU and Iowa aren't juggernauts on offense, plus they have to play defense as well!
September 26th, 2009 at 4:13 PM ^
there sunshine
September 26th, 2009 at 3:17 PM ^
You sir, are a tool!!! Both MSU and Iowa aren't juggernauts on offense, plus they have to play defense as well! Sorry about the double post! Unintentional!
September 26th, 2009 at 3:24 PM ^
Also, being a fan doesn't mean blindly praising everything your team does. That fact, combined with my Level III fandom badge from sitting through every second of that damned '08 NW game, gives me the right to tell you to kiss my ass.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:21 PM ^
Or someone with working eyes? If Tate hadn't gone in to what I call "God Mode" again, this game wouldn't even be close! Is IU an offensive juggernaut?!?!
September 26th, 2009 at 3:32 PM ^
Or if Moosman wouldn't have had to start at center. That would have helped as well.
September 26th, 2009 at 4:11 PM ^
Hopefully the coaches get him straightened out and fast. It's gonna be a tough 4-6 weeks while Molk is out.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:25 PM ^
Are you kidding? Next week is going to be a cripple fight. Michigan vs. Michigan State, Big Ten Network at noon. MSU is going to lose though. They're sort of the worst team in the Big Ten.
By the way, Indiana got jobbed on that call.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:32 PM ^
Jobbed? Depends on how you looked at it. Im not saying this just to stick up for my team but Warren looked like he intercepted the ball as they were going down to the ground. Like any WR is going to do, he tried to get it back. In the video you could clearly see on the ground that Warren had the ball fastened in his arm. Bad camera angle only showing the backside of the players doesn't really tell you much.
They had time to review the play and decided it was still an interception. Bad call or not they had time to review it and overturn it. Can't complaing much about it.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:38 PM ^
Sorry but you can't intercept the ball on the way to the ground. It was a mutual catch when the ball was there and a mutual catch when they both hit the ground. To call it anything else just makes me laugh.
But I guess I shouldn't complain, it makes ND's loss one game better.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:43 PM ^
How pissed would all of us Michigan fans be if we were the team on offense in that situation? I'll take the win happily, but I think that call was a little off.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:44 PM ^
a camera angle from the other side of the field we don't know who caught the ball. TV had 2 view from the michigan side line and one from behind the play. they did not have a view from IU's side of the field. so when the ref called it a pick, and when they went up stairs to review it, that made the job of that ref so much harder because there was no way he over turn the call on the field.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:46 PM ^
It should never have been called on the field to begin with. There should not have even been a booth review.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:51 PM ^
kind of right. the ref probably made the call a hoped the booth review would bail him out. thats one of the problems with booth reviews in college. but like magnus said below, along with stating the rule, no one could tell who had the ball before they hit the ground. the only people that truely know are the 2 players and whoever else was near the play.
September 26th, 2009 at 4:00 PM ^
Right but that is the point, unless the defender has clear possession its a mutual catch which goes to the offense.
September 26th, 2009 at 4:08 PM ^
From that replay, what exactly makes you think Warren didn't have clear possession? All you see is Warren's arm wrapped around the ball and Turner's (or whoever the IU receiver was) arm wrapped around Warren's.
It's not just a mutual catch because they fell down with the ball between them - the guy actually has to have it in his possession, which Turner (or whoever) did not, at least not from the replays available.
September 26th, 2009 at 4:31 PM ^
This is the way I looked at it. The pass can 1) fall incomplete, 2)be intercepted, 3A) Caught or 3B)Mutually caught (which has the same result as 3A).
From the replays they showed on TV it obviously did not fall incomplete, and it wasn't "Caught" outright by the receiver. For it to be intercepted the defender has to have clear possession of the ball before going down. With where the receiver's arms were and where Warren's arms were I didn't see Warren establishing possession of the ball until after the play was over.
Thinking back if they deemed it a mutual catch which was fumbled on the way to the ground and then recovered by Warren, I would have to see the replay again, maybe. But the ref said it was an interception and I did not see that.
September 26th, 2009 at 4:38 PM ^
First, let me say that I appreciate your comments here. Tomhagan hinted that you should leave, and I disagree. I like your perspective and the info you provide.
Second, the only possession we could see was Warren's.
So I agree to disagree.
September 26th, 2009 at 4:09 PM ^
you fighting this so hard??? its been made perfectly clear that without a camera angle from the IU side line there is no way to tell who caught the ball before they hit the ground. and it has also been said that the first time the ball is seen on TV it is warrens arm.
September 26th, 2009 at 4:19 PM ^
I didn't think I was, just responding to people who respond to me. It has no direct impact on me and honestly not really concerned with it, just one of those college football moments to talk about.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:55 PM ^
Warren had possession Jackass.
September 26th, 2009 at 4:03 PM ^
Thanks for that, you have always impressed me with your ability to articulate.
September 26th, 2009 at 4:08 PM ^
Name calling not cool.
September 26th, 2009 at 4:13 PM ^
Unfortunately so did Belcher and tie goes to the offense.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:45 PM ^
Maybe, but the refs whiffed on at least 5 holding calls against IU. So in the end, whatever.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:54 PM ^
Why you still here Irish?
September 26th, 2009 at 4:05 PM ^
Why are you still here tomhagan?
September 26th, 2009 at 4:07 PM ^
He is a good poster who contributes another viewpoint and he has been doing so since well before we played Notre Dame this year. Also that call should have been overturned. Maize and Blue glasses and all I think that IU got absolutely robbed.
September 26th, 2009 at 4:12 PM ^
"Sorry but you can't intercept the ball on the way to the ground. It was a mutual catch when the ball was there and a mutual catch when they both hit the ground."
Actually, the definition of a catch is possession of a thrown pass. Part of the definition of possession is that you are inbounds and come to the ground.
It isn't a catch, either way, until someone comes down. Therefore, if the both simultaneously "caught" the ball, but Warren was in sole possession when he hit the ground, then it is a catch by Warren, and an interception.
I haven't seen the replay, but those are the rules and what they were surely considering while replaying.
September 26th, 2009 at 4:17 PM ^
Honestly, you can't listen to what the commentator says. I know he was bitching about how the ball was in the hands of the receiver, but did anyone actually see simultaneous possession? No. You didn't see it. Because no camera angle showed it. And to claim otherwise is to claim that you have an angle or view of the ball that you didn't have.
Had that call on the field been a completion for Indiana, it should have stayed that way. However, as it was called, it should have remained an interception.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:36 PM ^
I don't think Wisconsin got enough credit, they seem pretty good this year. I don't think MSU is THAT bad, and they'll definitely be all good and pissed off at home next week.
September 26th, 2009 at 4:07 PM ^
Why would they be any more pissed off this week than they were last week and this week? That anger sure didn't help them at all.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:44 PM ^
If MSU can continue to come back after another close loss next week I think MSU will pull it out. Playing at home, MSU has a good passing game paired against UM's weak secondary. Remember that this will be UM's first away game and it will be a hostile environment.
September 26th, 2009 at 4:19 PM ^
Gee, really, Irish calling for a Michigan loss?
September 26th, 2009 at 3:30 PM ^
For example, last week I thought ND's Floyd had a TD cause he had the ball all the way to the ground. But it popped out on ground impact, and it was ruled a incompletion.
It looked to me like the two had joint possession, which I initially thought would go to Indiana. But if the ball did transfer to Warren on ground impact, by the same logic that Floyd's play was an incompletion seems to lead to this play being a Warren INT?
I can't say that I know any more about the rule than what I heard for the explanation of Floyd's incompletion.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:33 PM ^
This is exactly my logic. The ball had transfered in to Warrens possesion as the 2 players hit the ground.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:35 PM ^
The only thing that gives me any hope (that's not really the right word) that the officials got the call right, is that everyone looking at the ball seemed to think Warren had it. That was the angle the official had who made the call and the angle that wasn't shown on replay.
We still probably got a lucky break, but I guess it sort of makes up for not getting a single pass interference call to go our way the last two weeks.
In the end, I don't think it would have mattered. Outside the 85 yd TD run, I thought the D actually played pretty well in the second half, and I believe they would have stopped the last drive.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:55 PM ^
The defense got us into trouble in the first place by not being able to stop IU, but when the offense sputtered it was the defense that kept holding the Hoosiers to field goals. I would say there's almost an argument that they won us this game.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:34 PM ^
Let's hope Tate is ready to go next week. And Williams too. Kovacs took some bad angles. Floyd played well though. Moosman, let's not even go there.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:36 PM ^
Floyd played like shit.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:44 PM ^
I don't remeber seeing him give up big plays. It's not like Cissoko is awesome. But is he hurt or just was playing bad so they took him out?
September 26th, 2009 at 4:05 PM ^
He should have made a play on that 85-yard TD run by Willis.
He also went for the INT on that pass to the left sideline in the 2nd quarter (I think) where he missed completely and the IU receiver scored a TD.
I won't put all the blame on him for that long run, but he's arguably responsible for two of the three IU TDs.
September 26th, 2009 at 4:01 PM ^
Kovacs not so much.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:34 PM ^
I'm still trying to figure out how ND didn't score more on us. Does not compute.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:34 PM ^
"ARTICLE 8. A simultaneous catch or recovery is a catch or recovery in which there is joint possession of a live ball by opposing players inbounds (A.R. 7-3-6-II and III)."
The first chance we could see the ball in the replays, Warren had it very clearly in his right arm. It's really hard to say what happened prior to that. Just because a receiver has his arm hooked through the corner's doesn't necessarily mean they have simultaneous possession. Nowhere in the replay (at least from what I saw) did I see where the IU receiver had his arm around the ball.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:40 PM ^
and I think that is exactly what the refs and the review guys were thinking. The only shot I saw had Warren with the ball and the receiver fighting to get it from him.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:56 PM ^
Ray Bentley was showing off his stupidity in the broadcast. While it seemed to me that it was a simultaneous catch, there was no INDISPUTABLE video evidence to show it. I was yelling so loud because Bentley kept saying that the ball should have gone to Indiana. Pam Ward was the other announcer. Could they have had a worse announcing crew for this game?...
September 26th, 2009 at 3:37 PM ^
He was out there at the end of the game, but you can clearly see that his right arm/elbow/shoulder was really bothering him.
He got slapped on the back on the sidelines after his TD pass and he yelled out like Tom the cat after getting his tail caught in a mousetrap.
This is going to be the big story of the week, unfortunately.
As far as the game is concerned, they can learn from a game like this. Lots and lots of mistakes and bad execution yet they still found a way to pull it out.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:37 PM ^
I'm hoping he got a stinger and not some sort of separation/dislocation.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:45 PM ^
It's definitely his shoulder. But he did throw a strike to Odoms on that last TD pass so he probably bruised it.
I felt like cradling him in my arms like his mother so the bad people won't hit him anymore. It scares me every time he tucks the ball under and takes off.