I am not saying he will be hired or anything like that but I just want to know why everyone is so set against Miles coming here if he was to be hired. I mean people act like he is a terrible coack. So he likes to eat a couple blades of grass now and then, So maybe he has a couple boneheaded clock management issues during games. I can take losing a game or two by bad clock management if we are playing in BCS bowls year after year like LSU does, not to mention making it there from a conference liek the SEC. I know he's a little cooky bt he can coach. LSU shredded Texas A&M last night. Anyways I was just wondering what the problem people have with him.
Why the big problem with Les Miles
I read it all over the internet. Bad ambassador for U-M.
Considering there are whole threads arguing, no matter tons of posts.
But it did remind me that last night the arguments with all that "Brandon can watch over him and make sure he obeys the rules stuff" were like saying "yeah, he was a child molester before, but if he's supervised, he can babysit my kids".
He does have sex with homeless women. Just right there on the street in exchange for a po boy sandwich. Disgusting.
So sick of this unsubstantiated rumor being constantly thrown around. And not looking forward to it continuing to be thrown around for years to come.
Or at least the guy who posted it online did. Les Miles masturbates on public busses. That is how he unwinds after games. The Baton Rouge PD covers it up because he wins games.
His over-signing of kids and cutting them after they are already on campus (in one case) and opennly lying about another, on camera, and throwing the kid under a bus as if he wasn't cutrting it in another. What is unsubstantiated about that?
EDIT: I think I missed a /s in there somewhere
Read the post I was responding to. The rumors of Miles having an affair with the wife of a (widely varying) former Michigan assistant or head coach have been floated for years with ZERO concrete, substantiated proof.
My post had nothing to do with oversigning.
but I think the sexual deviant thing was a /s, not a reference to the suypposed 'incident'
no neg from me BTW
FWIW - substantiated or not, the Moeller's wife thing shouldn't have any bearing on whther or not he gets the job. there are plenty of real and pertinent reasons for that, this is not one of them.
But he does pee on people. That's what he's into. The guy is a total pervert.
With all the Michigan blogs and journalists and with all the stories being written, is nobody willing to actually go there? Doesn't anyone at The Smoking Gun or the National Enquirer care even a little bit? Is there any Deadspin scuzz money for this gambit? If you could explain the entire past three years of Michigan football by confirming one single rumor, why not go for it?
Granted, I appreciate sleazy, good journalism more than many. Or rather, I don't think good journalists should retreat from sleaze if the story leads them there.
you know the whole story? Nobody does. Everyone in the SEC oversigns, he has to to stay competitive. It is not against NCAA rules. It might be morally wrong, but in case you didn't notice UM does not have a coaching staff, and are a laughing stock right now. There is not a canidate left that everyone will agree on. So relax, the man has a NC, and can recruit, and in case you didn't notice UM is running out of time.
Mullen, Georgia, and Florida do not oversign. Stop with this bullshit that he has to do it to be competitve. Tell that to the kids who were cut from the team.
We all know everything on the internet is true
of his quarterbacks.
I agree he would be bad for U M, thankfully he ain't coming. I think that in his contract with LSU he is to be the highest paid coach by 1 dollor in the sec. So any coach that get a raise for more than Miles makes Miles gets a raise.
Why he is hated has nothing to do with anything you posted. He is a shady coach and has bent the rules to the point I am not even sure he knows what they are. Exploiting 17 year old kids who are making the most important decision of their lives is unforgivable in my opinion. I would rather lose than win with him.
It would be VERY hard to cheer for M if he was the coach...
It is never hard to cheer for our Wolverines. I would just hope that Les doesn't bring the SEC recruiting mindset to Ann Arbor.
Isn’t kind of funny how all us totally moral people can tear LM up? when we cannot produce any of this list of stuff against him as fact its all been rumors.
Fact:LSU is losing scholarships
Fact:LSU signs more recruits than they have scholarships for
Fact: He was doing shit at Oklahoma State
That is all fact, so stop that it's all rumors.
There's also the fact his players have quoted him as saying, last night, that he's staying at LSU. I lived in Seattle when the Rick Neuheisel deal went down from Colorado to UW. Right before he signed with UW, while he was negotiating, he told the players he wasn't leaving. Call me self-righteous, but I'm not comfortable with a coach who will out and out lie to players because it's in his self interest.
I think Harbaugh did the right thing refusing to answer questions and asking for patience instead of issuing mendacious denials.
that Les Miles informed his team of his intention to do anything, whether it be stay or leave. I can almost guarantee that what he did say was the same thing he's been saying to the media since about two hours before last night's game:
"(LSU) is a wonderful place. I love it here."
This is in no way a commitment to returning to LSU. Considering this is what he has said REPEATEDLY for almost 24 hours now, I can only imagine it is, verbatim, what he said to his players. If they are misinterpreting this information as a commitment to LSU, then that's their problem, but as of right now, no one is saying anything about confirmed quotes from the meeting.
On the other hand, if Miles is leaving he's apparently not only not told his players butbluntly lied to them:
Russell Shepard just told me Les Miles assured team he's coming back. Not going to Michigan. … So have many others.
He did cut that one guy with a form letter so maybe they haven't checked their mail recently.
I've made my opinion clear on this: Miles is old, has enthusiastically adopted the tao of SEC, and just saw his program take a more serious hit from the NCAA than Rodriguez did. Even if it works out in five years Michigan is going to be saddled with a coach exactly as old as Carr was when he retired and will either get to experience the extended senescence of a guy who's already wacky or experience yet another transition. I would prefer Brady Hoke.
I'm probably alone in this, I know.
UPDATE: More from LSU players:
"He said, 'They have rumors going around about (me) going to Michigan, but it's not true,'" Jefferson said. "'It's nonsense.' He said hasn't spoken to anybody, anything about Michigan. We're going to stick with that and get ready for next year." …
"He told us this is his football team and this is where he's going to be," Ridley said. "We respect our coach, and this is our coach for right now, and we're going to enjoy him as long as we can. Coach Miles is a Tiger. This is his group of guys, and he's proud of us. I think this is where he will be next year."
Seems fairly unambiguous there.
hadn't spoken to anyone yet
He said the rumors (of him leaving) are not true, which is true since he has not signed any contracts with UM. That does not mean that there aren't some feelers going back and forth.
The same goes for "he hasn't spoken to anybody" as his handlers are handling it.
Unless he says something equivalent of "I have no desire to go to UM and even if they ask, I am going to say no", I would say it is still ambiguous.
but these quotes are paraphrased to the point of almost unreadability. Is the writer quoting Jeffries quoting Miles? Is the writer quoting Jeffries paraphrasing Miles?
They have rumors going around about (me) going to Michigan, but it's not true.
Ok, great. The rumor was that he had already accepted the job at Michigan. He says nothing about not accepting the job tomorrow.
We respect our coach, and this is our coach for right now, and we're going to enjoy him as long as we can. Coach Miles is a Tiger. This is his group of guys, and he's proud of us. I think this is where he will be next year.
"For right now..." "I think..." Great kid, no one asked you what you think. We want to know what he said.
Very poorly thrown together if you ask me. Even if Miles addressed his team with these quotes, they still read as more nondenial-denials than actual denials.
And he only won one national title with Saban's recruiting class.
I don't like the idea of Miles either but to say that he won that game with saban's kids is like saying that RR took LC's kids to the Gator Bowl this year. Miles was in his 3rd year there.
I guess I should have included the sarcasm tag. I don't really subscribe to that inane viewpoint
yet he's had four 11 win seasons and is 5-1 in bowl games
If he's hired, it will blow over. By September, the very people who are trashing him now will be his biggest supporters. Some fans are just manic-depressive. Just look at how the board has reacted to Jim Harbaugh over the past six months.
So don't speak for us. Les Miles is a terrible human being. And it has nothing to do with him fucking peoples wives, being a complete dumbass of a coach, and eating grass...no, those are all completely independent from why he's a horrible fit for a university trying its best to make the right, clean hire.
The man baldly lies about kicking a deserving kid off the football for no other reason except to make room for somebody else. He's been culturally-engrained with the SEC style of oversigning a full recruiting class every cycle, and he would have no problem booting every single kid off Michigan's roster if it meant a "better, younger" prospect would commit. He's not a Michigan Man by any measure anymore, for those of you who actually care for labels like that. He's a sleezebag. And that wont change. His actions will get Michigan the death penalty in the Big Ten one day.
You really think he'll get michigan the death penalty? The big ten rules are clear regarding oversigning. You really think that the fanbase/alumni would stand for booting off seniors to make room for recruits? Why don't you step back from the ledge and take a breath.
this rabid, wounded fanbase/alumni wouldn't turn a blind eye to any sort of infractions right now if it meant winning 11 games a year? Please. Like most would ever give a shit if Ray Vinopal was mysteriously given a medical redshirt in order for Joe 5-star to enroll. I do. A lot of good Michigan fans do.
I'm not standing over any ledge. There's just no rational reason to bring in Les Miles with the program already on probation. His success at a school that would be hugely successful with or without him should mean nothing.
Funny, I don't recall LSU being "hugely successful" in the 1980s or '90s. Saban was the first coach to win big there in ages.
As for the ethics stuff - if Mary Sue Coleman and David Brandon are okay with the guy, who the hell is anyone else to speak otherwise? It's their reputations on the line.
They were hugely successful.....before...Miles...was hired...right...dumbass? This web of BS you're weaving is silly. Les Miles took over team that established its prominence in the NCAA with a recent national title and a plethora of top-ranked recruiting classes. He carried on Saban's "hugely successful" run at LSU. Are you really trying to nitpick at something like this? Try again, dude. Noone's talking about the 80s and 90s.
And Saban left LSU five years ago. They won how many games this year with just Miles' recruits? You think this guy is Coker just because he followed a successful coach in Saban when reality doesn't really vibe with that. He's a hell of a recruiter and very probably a good coach.
sure of that?
Les is good at hiring coordinators that make him look good, if he doesn't have that package under him, strictly coachingwise, he wouldn't do well.
Ask yourself this, why do 95% of all the LSU fans want him gone?
The problem I have with the NEW COACH biz and Miles is that we do not have a team anywhere near the caliber Miles had when he took over at LSU. All he had to do was not screw up. We need somebody to clean up a toxic waste dump first, then build. We're not at a Notre Dame nuclear waste dump yet ( though oddly enough making s---- out of good recruits never seems to hurt them at the next recruit-o-thon ), but mess this hire up and we will be well past that benchmark. We need somebody proven to make something out of little to nothing. Miles has not done that. His hiring would be a BIG crapshoot. We should not be afraid to take a chance on a turn around coach. Sweater vest was a fairly big leap ( though he started out with a good basic team ) at the time.
She let BM set the pace and terms last time and although I don't believe RR was the wrong hire, meeting at a Denny's in Toledo is not the best way to bring in "new blood" to a school like UM. It did not help RR that he did not know or research what he was getting into...which he didn't.
As a matter of fact, no, I don't think that they'll turn a blind eye. If that were to happen, I think miles would have the fanbase breathing down his neck.
There's no doubt that what he did was wrong, but there are a different set of standards to follow in the big ten. He's a qualified coach on the field (no matter what LSU fans might tell you) and I for one would not be offended if he were hired.
I understand what you are sayng but, I live in a SEC state and I can tell you that he is looked at the scumbag of the SEC. The way that he treats the kids on the team is (for lack of a better word) classless. Miles is probably the luckiest son of a b$#ch I have ever seen, and I attribute a lot of his wins to that luck. I know the old saying "I would rather be lucky than good", but I think his luck is probably about to run out. Keep in mind that at the beginnng of the season there were a lot of people in LA that wanted hm to be fired.
By September, you'll be as obsessed with defending him as you are with attacking him now. I've seen how this goes.
You pretentious diick. Reading some of your drivel around here makes me wonder how you even manage to put one foot in front of the other every day standing knee deep in your own bullshit.
Les Miles has a lot of blackmarks and a lot of us are aware of that. Him becoming Michigan's coach will no expunge him. He's still ruined enough kids lives, and many of us will never feel good about our success with him as coach. What you think of peoples motives is completely irrelevant and ultimately just you believing your own bullshit. Have at it, little guy.
Personal attacks. Nice.
You were personal first, no? Weren't you implying that Hoss lacks integrity?
I know nothing about his/her personal integrity. I simply suspect that he/she is behaving irrationally right now.
You're unaware of what an asshole you're coming off as questioning the moral values of people on a message board whom you don't know. Man up and realize that.
As opposed to questioning the moral values of a football coach?
Do news reports detailing what an asshole Les Miles is for booting deserving kids off the team have no effect on you, or are you intentionally being dense?
I'm not calling Les Miles an asshole for the fun of it. I wasn't against his hire in 2007. But, you know, the research and FACTS and his own SOUND BYTES others have exposed from him kind of 100% confirms the guy is an asshole. Read more, dude.
Take a couple of deep breaths man.
You really think insulting people is the way to get your point across? This is a sports message board for Christ's sake
LLLLLLLEEEETTTTSSSSS GEEEEETTTTT REEEAAAAAADDDYYYYYYY TOOOOOOO RRRRRUUUUUUUMMMMMBBBBLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Now you brought religion into this discussion.
By the way does anyone know if TCU is a religious-based school?
I agree with you that we don't want Les Miles running the program in Michigan, but, seriously, take it down a knotch. Terms like "pretentious diick " and "knee deep in your own bullshit." are probably a bit over the top. We are all rooting for the same team here and should be able to get along with a morticum of civility and self control.
Kind of like how you were with Rodriguez.. Oh that is right, you continued attacking him, so don't expect people to forgive Miles and pat him on the back. Many of us supported RR and will hold the new coach to the same standards that RR was.
I have never suggested that RR should be fired for the NCAA issue, or any other off-field problem. He needed to be fired for his record, and for the fact that he was losing support of fans and players.
If you want to hold Miles to the same standards as RR, that's fine with me. People in this thread are currently holding him to a different standard, which is unfair.
What about RR signing players that had no chance in hell at getting into Michigan or handle the course load? That's just as bad as what Miles is accused of doing.
this is ridiculous.
did you watch the OTL piece?
RichRod trying to vouch for kids who come from horrible backgrounds in horrible school districts(all the while the kid KNOWS the whole time that he may or may not get in depending on Admissions or Clearinghouse) is the same as Les Miles lying to kids about their opportunity to play at LSU....when they're already at LSU and living on campus? Are you sick?
Oh, I love this argument. RR, by signing Demar Dorsey, was actually doing the right thing. Yup. He was doing it all for the kids. Were you actually laughing when you wrote your post?
As Dorsey had a lot of talent, but let's remember that it was his education that prevented him from coming to M, not any kind of criminal past.
Please see RR's history of taking kids from bad backgrounds, talented of course as it isn't charity, and keeping them in line and turning them into great players and people. PacMan and co. under his watch were never discipline problems.
I don't remember his name, but at WVU he took a recruit who had a felony charge on his record that many schools steered away from......the kid became a starter and an honor student. Fact.
So, yes, I do think he tries to give kids a chance who might otherwise not get it.
Trying to get kids into school is worse than kicking them out? How do you figure?
Was it good judgement for the needs, and success of his program? Probably not. But I'm not sure how you equate trying to give a kid a chance to get into a school with waiting till he's in school, moved into the dorm, then telling him to take a hike.
Got on my case about any criticism at all. Then he suddenly decided midseason Rich could do no right. Kinda like the flip-flop he's predicting everyone else to do. Ahhhh, now I know why he thinks it will happen....
Topeka, I think you have got it.
This is a pretty silly mischaracterization here. I thought RR deserved a chance, but I never thought he should be blindly supported. And I'd feel the same about Miles. If he screws up at U-M, he should be criticized. But until that happens, he should be given a fair shake.
Honestly at this point, I will take anyone, just for the sake of stabilizing the program. Who ever ultimately is hired will have my support. Miles isn't coming anyway.
It's not like we're talking about people with no track record. Miles has had a chance to run a clean program...he's chosen not too. We're not judging him on what he may or may not do here...we're judging him on what he HAS done. Michigan Football is not a place for second chances. You make it seem any coach could be picked to come coach Michigan. Pick X (x=most corrupt coach run out of the most scandal ridden program); so X can come coach at Michigan because he hasn't done anything wrong at Michigan, and we'll have Dave Brandon (who seems to be having a hard time tying his own shoes right now no more watching over a shady coach) watch him?
Goes back to my original post here. Michigan Football is our baby. And I'm not risking it by giving second chances to the guy who's been convicted before. A clean guy could come in and cheat too; (or treat students like crap). But at least we'd have no warning. Here it's happened, and we're saying..."eh, so, we don't care about that anymore".
... to know the moral integrity of a stranger on a message board. Not everybody's moral composition is so easily moved by the acts of 18-21 year old boys playing a game.
I never personally insult people, but if someone chooses to assume what my or anyone elses morals are that they don't know...well then that person has earned anything coming their way. If jmblue had a shred of dignity he'd apologize, but I think we can more or less expect to him to just keep replying to posts trying to earn the last word.
Do you know Les Miles?
So you never personally insult people, except when you do.
If you are being logically consistent, when did Les Miles "choose to assume what [your] morals are"? You don't seem to have a problem personally attacking him.
Look, it's an internet message board, and we're all Michigan fans here. All this stuff is silly. If I said anything that got you that worked up, I legitimately am sorry. But I would advise you to leave the "You're a dick" reply out of your repertoire.
I guess that means we had better not be looking at any head coach, coordinator, assistant, S&C coach, etc. from the SEC as potential hires for any UofM position.
What if he wins, but he pulls the same oversigning nonsense that he has been pulling at LSU?
Big Ten rules forbid that sort of over signing.
we allow players to sell school property, take cars frpm boosters, beat up students and still play football ! Don't think we want that stuff happening at UM. I think if Tressel and Dantonio could oversign, they would do that too.
not even close, even IF he won.
About the state of mind of the larger fanbase, if nothing else. The desperation for a "name" coach, who comes from the Bo coaching tree, with a proven record of success in the SEC will be quite enough to outweigh ethical issues that the average fan is not well-acquainted with. Brian has made the readers of MGoblog quite well-educated regarding how sleazy SEC oversigning is, but I would doubt the average M fan knows (or cares) anything about it.
I think it all stems from voting against us in the coaches poll to play in the NC. After that I think it's a combination of treating his players improperly while taking the Lords name in vain.
I wouldn't Winning cures all.
I would rather have Miles a proven SEC coach than Hoke.
He's shown time and again that his ethics are questionable and I think a lot of people don't want to go down that route but as I told the A&M fans I sit near at work - I know full well that he's made a deal with the devil because there's no way he has the record he does with all the stupid things he's done without it (the deal) so, ya know, after the last three years I'll take a minimum 8 win campaign and when he retires in 5+ years we can convince Urban Meyer to come out of retirement or something...
Watch this video repeatedly until you understand. We'll wait right here for your answer.
He has done the SEC oversigning grey shirt stuff. But I don't blame him in a sense. You play by the rules of the area. The SEC cheats like hell. If you don't you wind up on bottom and you get fired. So when in Rome...
In the Big 10 and at Michigan, it isn't tolerated. And I think Les would conform to the standards presented him. I don't think he'd have an issue in that area. Plus knowing that the Freep Creeps are out to get you will make you watch out even more.
I agree with you. He's a good coach. Year after year LSU is in the top of a very good conference. People may say that the SEC isn't the best or isn't way ahead of people, but they can't say it's a bad conference. It's a very good conference and he wins in it all the time. That should mean something.
coached and had great success in the SEC, and they never had to sign a 30 person class to do it. Try again.
Everyone conveniently forgets that he had upwards of 30 kids arrested while he was at UF, don't they? Selective memory at it's finest.
that is an Urban Meyer discipline issue, not a Les Miles/SEC oversigning issue.
Not to defend the massive over signing but I live in Texas and I know a bunch of rabid college football fans and none of them (save for the displaced Big Ten fans) seem to care that much about the over signing so I can only imagine how little they care in SEC country.
I'd put 50% blame on the coaches and 50% blame on the atmosphere in the SEC.
Between 2005 - 2010, Miles brought in an average of 24 kids per class, Meyer brought in an average of 23, Richt brought in an average of 22.
They're all playing "by the rules" SEC style. I hate the SEC over recruiting, and it's morally grey at best, but it's within the rules.
And FYI, Richt has been bringing in fewer and fewer kids over the last couple of years and they've been less and less competitive in the SEC. FWIW.
For what it's worth, Lloyd Carr grayshirted the occasional recruit. Joey Sarantos was one.
All of these guys have their warts.
on how Lloyd and Rich are far and away better than Les Miles?
Why is grayshirting okay for Carr but Miles? I'm curious to know the distinction.
There's a big distinction: Lloyd came up with an open agreement for the recruit to greyshirt prior to his arrival on campus. Miles decided to greyshirt a recruit after he was already on campus thinking he was going to be a redshirt freshman like any other kid. That means the kid had to pay his own way the first semester and couldn't practice with the team.
is a common practice for marginal recruits that want to attend a particular school/play for a particular program. It is a perfectly legitimate practice anywhere when it is done up front and above board and the recruit understands their status from the beginning.
Getting kids on campus and pulling their scholarship before they ever have a chance to contribute/pan out, or after they get to be juniors and seniors and don't necessarily pan out, is entirely different and ethically challenged at best, pretty scummy at worst.
The issue with Les Miles and greyshirting isn't that he asks kids to greyshirt-- there's nothing unethical at all about greyshirting, provided everyone understands the arrangement. The issue is that Miles oversigned a class, had to cut his numbers, and went about it by telling a kid already on campus to greyshirt or leave. That's not OK in my book. Is it an automatic disqualifier for this job? In my mind, no, but if I were Dave Brandon, I'd ask Miles about that situation, and I'd pay very close attention to the answer. I don't think Michigan can afford to hire anybody with a cavalier attitude toward ethics at this time.
That's fair. I agree that he should be thoroughly vetted on any ethical issues. My main point is that if he is, and Coleman and Brandon can tell us that they're comfortable with him, then we should be, too.
Yes, you're right. When leadership tells you to ignore ethics and morals, you should obey and follow suit.
Heavens to Betsy, jmblue.
that his NCAA problems are bigger than RichRod's; that he is strongly disliked for serious moral transgressions by our most eminent "Michigan men"; that he oversigns and lies to his players about it; since he is far more corn-pone gee whiz than the country (but intelligent) coach we just fired.
But hey, I'm one of the wierdos that thinks it was nuts to fire a guy that won 3, 5, then 7 games and finally had everyone coming back and no more excuses--especially if you didn't have someone in--ahem--January. (Next year would have been the time, no?) So what do I know. . .
I'm with Brian--Hoke over Miles. The fun part is that now we're vying with Stanford for a coach, too.
Those Motown hits just keep on coming!
Hoke thinks the spread (run by the two teams in the BCS bowl this year...) is "basketball on grass". He's a smash mouth guy. Do you really want to go back to the dark ages? Both Harbaugh and Miles except creativity in their offense. I will miss Rich and was a ranting supporter of him and still am, but he did choose the D coords (2) and apparently ignored the kicking game (Bo did it too one time, 1979 I think). It was a mistake to fire RR so soon but I'm for Miles, best proven track record, M man, excellent recruiter than can open up LA to us. Insert here "SEC excuse" about his behavior there... Athletic dept needs to get over themselves re. angst against Les.
that I prefer even him to Miles.
... [Miles] is strongly disliked for serious moral transgressions by our most eminent "Michigan men" ...
Yes, there is a very vocal but small minority that is anti-Miles. Brian blasted Sharp and Rosenberg (and all the RR haters) because they would not even give RR a chance. And you are doing the same thing with Miles, ironically before he is even hired.
Fortunately, there is a large base of alumni and former players that support Miles (and those alumni and former players know him far better than you do). Sadly, RR did not have any such base of support at Michigan to fall back on when he needed it. I do not know if we will get Miles, but if we do I hope we can expect better from the Miles-haters than we got from Rosenberg and Sharp and the other RR-haters. But based on the comments on this board, I am not very optimistic.
was there a rational, substantiated reason to NOT support RR 3 years ago?
No one is perfect. And I am certain the RR-haters could provide you with a long list. I was a RR supporter, so you are asking the wrong person.
coaches and staff that can't stand him too. If we're trying to get someone to unify the department, no more the fanbase, Les isn't it.
Everybody has both their fans and their critics.
At this point, who has more of the former than the latter as far as this hire is concerned?
Thank you. The RR cultists would have you believe that RR was the only coach who arrived on campus to universal approval. Every new coach at every school faces a faction of doubters and critics. Any coach M picks will face the same degree of doubt. Maybe even more.
You should know me of all people has hardly been a Rich "cultist". He got fired because of stuff on the field though. I have no problem with having a coach who we have doubts about on the field, and giving him a chance to prove those doubts wrong. But if we have doubts about character and honesty, that's something I don't want to take a chance on. I'll take a chance on losing games, but I won't take a chance on being crooked. Rich had a lot of problems on the field, and in the PR area; but I don't legitimately think caring for his kids was one of them.
Not sure why you aren't getting posbanged for this. Definitely a +1 from me for pointing out everything I've thought about Michigan since I was about four.
Although (and this isn't some hidden RR insult) I always believed nice guys could finish first.
There isn't anyone that everyone will go YES!!! on. So it's ok to be open to a variety of candidates. That doesn't mean you can't eliminate any either. And I draw the line at the reputation of the program as one that does things the right way. I thought you did too. There may be some who have complained about every candidate, and there are problems different people have had with any candidate. I haven't. I've had a problem with one. Les. Because he doesn't do things the right way. I'll support anyone they chose, as long as they do things the right way. Saban, no. Hoke? Sure. Someone else they find with no skeletons not so in the closet (I mean, we already knew about it, but it was on ESPN!), sure. They don't have to chose "my guy". They just have to chose someone who hasn't already shown himself to be wrong for Michigan.
No such individual exists. JH was not wanted by everyone. Nor is Hoke. When you capture the magical unicorn, let me know.
Brady Hoke. The whole department would love to have him. The fans would freak, but no one behind closed doors would.
There is not someone for everyone in anything. But you were the one claiming Miles would be fine because a lot of inside people back him. But the problem is, a lot of inside people don't. And nothing the fans said really did Rich in. Lack of support within the program could have harmed him though.
That's why frankly I feel they should go with someone who doesn't have the baggage one way or another. A Mullen or someone, that people won't feel strongly about one way or another.
Well, if you're talking Athletic Department ...
No, I was not.
The Michigan Family is much bigger than the small number of people currently in the Athletic Department. And, although I do not purport to be able to read Dave Brandon's mind, when he said one of his primary goals was to bring together the fractured Michigan family I think he meant something broader than your limited definition.
the violations and oversigning are, for me, deal killers. (No need to tell me I'm not deciding.)
You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. But it is impossible for DB to satisfy everyone (and he more or less said this the other day during the press conference).
Just your answer. I think there's a big difference between having a problem with x's and o's (BH and my opinion) and having a problem with the moral values of the person in question.
Will I shut the fuck up and watch M play SMASHMOUTH football? Yes.
Will I sit quietly and watch the team become the win-at-all-costs-SEC-north? No.
I would have concern about a Michigan program currently on probation hiring a head coach whose current employer just had to dock his program scholarships in an attempt to ward off more severe sanctions from the NCAA. LSU basically had an assistant pay for a player. The assistant got caught and resigned, but it's certain that LSU will be facing some sort of NCAA probation for the incident.
The secondary issue is Miles' unethical behavior in oversigning players-- yes, everybody in the SEC does it, but kicking kids off the team with form letters and telling kids already on campus that they can either greyshirt or transfer is not how I want the head coach at Michigan to be treating his players. The Big Ten has stricter rules on oversigning than the SEC(which up until recently hardly had any), so some of this Miles couldn't do at Michigan, but still, it's a reason for concern.
My primary problem with him is over signing players (don't give me the SEC excuse, it's wrong to do to student athletes.)
SEC football players are also students? I'd like to compare this to the B1G and other conferences.
He has to play by their rules or Saban wins. Yes it is wrong and he won't do it at M
that the 'everyone does it, so it is okay' argument holds no water when we were looking at too much stretching time under RR?
It seemed to me that everyone wanting to throw RR under a bus (not necessarily you) had a fairly strict code of ethics in that instance and the violations were to be taken seriously no matter the environment they occured in and seemed, at that point to be the responsibility of the HC, no matter what.
Now it seems that code is a little more flexible to some and that being unethical is okay, as long as Saban was doing it?
Anyone who came down on RR (again, not necessarily you) for Stretchgate and pointed to them as a reason for dismissal cannot legitimately argue that the current LSU sanctions and the oversigning that Miles has been a part of (especially the lying, mealy, form-letter way he went about it) don't matter.
I feel like I'm one of these people. I was a RR supporter who was very disappointed with Stretchgate, but I could never stand Miles and the things he's done. I think there's a big difference between misinterpreting something and (being too much of a coward to) look[ing] a kid in the face and saying that your promise didn't actually mean anything.
Does anyone else feel like we will have a decision from Miles one way or the other by tomorrow? LSU surely is not going to let their recruiting class go to hell like ours.
Michigan is already on probation with the NCAA. Bringing in a coach who has NCAA compliance issues would not seem to be a prudent move.
Agreed. Miles would be a big risk/okay reward.
For a lot of people I suspect this is all about RR. RR to Miles feels like a retrograde move.
Miles has demonstrated that he can handle all three phases of the game - and he's never been accused of cronyism in his hiring.
I agree. Going from an overachieving Big East coach who tanked a big program to a MNC winning, SEC Damn Strong Football coach is a total upgrade. Aren't the RR supporters the ones that think yards mean more than points, too?
As a RR supporter, I rather go 0-12 every year with Miles as coach. Miles is a POS.
And if Miles plays by the rules while in Ann Arbor? You want the guy to go 0-12 then too?
I'm not arguing that Les Miles can boast a spotless record, but give the guy a chance. He inherited a program from Saban that was already being run on these expectations. It's ultimately about winning, the NCAA is full of shit when they say it's about the student athlete. Their academic records aren't generating any revenue. He's just a product of the system. If he comes to UM, and obviously thats a big if, he at least deserves a chance to prove he can be morally upstanding while winning games. But 0-12 is something you should never wish upon Mich
Stop with the bullshit that he's just a product of the system. He was doing shit at Oklahoma State. Look, if Miles somehow is clean at Michigan, I'll change my tune, but I wouldn't bet on it. I wish/hope Michigan goes 0-12 if Miles is the coach. If Hoke is the coach at SDSU next year, I'll be cheering for them against MICH if Miles is coach.
So within the last week, this board goes from Miles is scum to well Miles won't do that at MICH. IDC about winning when people/coaches are out there fucking with kids and I do not want a shithead who does that coaching at Michigan. Sorry I'm not a win at all cost type of guy.
Miles has demonstrated to be a complete dirtbag. Who gives a shit about the phases of the game and shit dude. The well being of student-athletes is greater than winning.
People say these things without knowing all the facts. What do you know about how he treats his players, beyond the little shreds of info that get out to the national press?
HAHAHA are you serious? Let me see, cutting players because he feels they are not good enough, then sending the kid a letter because he is not man enough to tell it to his face, and then lie to the media about it. Yup a great father figure Miles is.
How do we know Miles "lied to the media"? Do you automatically assume that every kid who badmouths a coach is speaking the truth?
Watch the video. Miles is all ugh, oh, uh, he didn't want to work. I cannot believe you are defending the man's actions.
Miles isn't the most articulate guy. No one's going to argue otherwise on that.
Every program has disgruntled ex-players who claim the coach did them wrong. I think it's potentially dangerous to pass judgment based on individual cases like that.
What I am arguing is simple: if Mary Sue Coleman and David Brandon are comfortable with Miles, there's no reason why we shouldn't be. And if they're not, well, then this is academic.
LSU has a huge built-in recruiting advantage, since all the best players from Louisiana go to LSU, and there are a lot of good players in Louisiana.
The question to me is if he would match his LSU recruiting at Michigan. He's 57, and he's going to have to work harder on recruiting than he ever has before. Is he up for it?
Plus all the other stuff...
Not all the best in Louisiana go to LSU:
The state of Louisiana has historically been a sieve - the best players often left. Saban was the first guy in a long time to keep them home. Miles has done the same. That can only be a plus in his book. He would come here with strongly established ties to that state.
Here's what's silly about the criteria Brandon set out: there are too many.
There should be one, and it should be, "Find a great, winning coach."
Nothing else matters, or should matter, except that the coach should be able to operate within Michigan's NCAA compliance policies as he moves forward.
Miles had to coach - and win - in the SEC, and they play by different rules. Get over it if he comes here, and I'm sure he or anyone else can play by B1G rules, as he no doubt had to do when he was here under Bo and Mo.
silly billion dollar Michigan brand
Let us know when you reach puberty.
Please go root for tOSU if you want a "win and ignore shady BS" program
"win and ignore shady BS" program
This is in itself a completely adequate reason to oppose Les Miles as a potential coach. But if you want to ignore the ethical issues, and I can't, have those of you who support him ever watched a big game he coached? The clock management SNAFUs are legendary. His teams have been enormously talented, without a doubt. But they lose games they should not. The offenses are very vanilla. He makes questionable personnel decisions. And I am very afraid that when he doesn't own a talent rich state his recruiting is going to decline. Add to that the fact that he has been known to make batshit crazy comments and I just can't be comfortable with the guy.
Despite all that, he's 62-17 in six years at LSU, and has posted four 11-win seasons. I don't think there's a good football case against the guy. Whether there's an ethical case against him is debatable; that's up to our administration and AD.
No good? You seen his championship ring?
Sorry, you can think he's not a good fit for Michigan, but to say he's "not a good coach" is sheer hyperbolic lunacy.
He was holding it out right next to GERG's two superbowl rings.
clock management issues only matter if you're in it at the end of games. and given what we saw in our six losses, I wouldn't mind if clock management is a problem we had to start dealing with.
This program needs a kick in the a** and he may be the guy to do it.
LSU's winningest ever coach. Ubran Legend like 5-1 in bowl games. 1 MNC.
Mullen has quite a bit of talent at MSU...never mind, I'm not even going to argue that point with you.
Miles is a lot of things, but a bad coach he is not. The guy knows how to win, recruits well, and finds a way to stay competitive in a very difficult conference. Is Saban a good coach in your eyes - him and Miles have similar records with equally-talented teams? How about Meyer at Florida - equal (if not more) access to top talent, similar records over the years.
I get that you don't like Miles and I agree he wouldn't be the best fit, but he knows how to win and would be an upgrade over the nothingness that is currently in Ann Arbor.
Ethical issues aside (which they shouldn't be)...
True he has hired good coordinators and that goes in his favor, but getting Miles by himself is no coup unless he comes as a package.
I don't honestly think he is going to be able to fill out an entire staff at M and be able to win with a roster that is in transition. Aside from the obvious and substantiated concerns with his character, he isn't the best option in terms of coaching skills.
My counter to that is RR may be a better coach than Miles but couldn't bring in a competent DC, so he's currently sitting at home while Miles is winning games. Yeah, Xs and Os Miles isn;'t great, but the guy can win and has done so in a tough place like LSU.
We all want to win and we want to do it with integrity. That doesn't mean the guy DB picks has to be perfect or squeaky clean. He needs to respect the rules, his players, and Michigan. It's up to DB to decide whether Les Miles or any other candidate fits those criteria.
Does this mean that we shouldn't have an opinion? And anyway, what reason has Brandon given us to trust his judgment when it comes to making major decisions?
but not a sleazebag either
We play on Fieldturf and not grass, which would create a conflict with his palate.
As others noted, Miles is old, very SEC in his views on recruitment and player retention, and brings his own violation baggage along. Maybe he was a good fit years ago, but now he'd only be a stop-gap and would be replaced in a couple of years. I think Brandon totally dropped the ball with this situation, and right now he better hope the guy he pegs just exceeds expectations, because right now I'd rather they have dropped Brandon and kept RR - at least he has a track record of being competent at his job.
and increases the chances we could actually get him. He can hold it together for the 4 yrs it'll take to ramp the program up then retire either a hero at the school he loves, or...well just retire. Any "outsider" won't stand a chance here at M and I don't want Hoke...who else now? PS I started playing collegiate rugby at age 50...much of age is in the mind and sitting on the couch... Miles has plenty of mojo left...
I'm pretty sure DB will be keeping a very close eye on him. DB's not an idiot (I think) and he is certainly aware of the sleaze factor with Miles so I gotta believe he'll keep the shady SEC-style shenanigans in check.
I'm sure DB will keep a close eye on whoever ends up in the HC position. However, I'm also sure he doesn't want to go through this sort of process again anytime soon.
My guess is DB will choose someone who is above reproach and as such, requires very little close supervision.
Shouldn't the idea be to hire a coach that doesn't need constant babysitting by the AD? You really think that's a solid foundation for a good working relationship?
For those that haven't seen it yet, I thought it appropriate to repost the OTL piece that featured Miles.
Sigh...I could live with Les Miles.
- Nickname is the Mad Hatter + 2
- Plays in a Tougher CONFERENCE + 1
- Confident and has his own hilarious way to deal with media +1
- Big recruiter + 1
- Can bring southern talent up north +1
- Eats grass, but the Big House has astroturf...? +0
- Has already beaten Saban, Urban Meyer, and Jim Tressel
- Would give Tressel a heart attack + 5
- Would kick off onside kicks, giving other coaches heart attacks +1
- .....but if they didn't work, would give us heart attacks -3
- seems content with a crap offense - 4
- But loves him good defense and special teams....our areas of need +5
- Takes poor pictures -1
-Says stupid shit -2
-..but hilarious shit too +1
- Loves fake field goals, fake punts, fake snaps, fake boobs, fake everything + 2
- Would bang your wife - 4
- Would bang your wife and successfully recruit your 4 star player son while doing it +2
Did I cover everything?
I think Brandon could use you on his search team.
Do we really need to know anything else?
1. Humiliated OSU on a national stage while simultaneously denying Tressel a second national championship
2. Might be able to bring John Chavis (DC) with him
I heard Les Miles invented internet porn just so he'd have a place to store his home movies.
Is this the kind of guy we want mentoring 18 year old kids?
If that is true then the last thing he needs is money. The dude who invented internet porn is a trillionaire.
Rich Rodriguez than Les Miles, but I would rather have Les Miles than pretty much anybody else who is currently in play.
Maybe Dan Mullen from MSU, but of realistic candidates, Les is pretty close to the top of the list.
....over LM is out of your mind. LSU is consistently one of the best teams in the SEC....you know....the conference that dominates everyone year in and year out. Doesn't anyone find it odd that after RR was terminated.....the majority of the players were sad that he was gone but no one seemed to put up a fight that he was removed as HC? The overwhelming sense I get is that RR was a terrific guy but not a good HC. Even DB said the conversations he had with current players helped him out immensely in his decision.
I would be extremely excited and content getting someone like LM to take over UM. LSU has been one of the upper echelon teams each year since he has taken over. Added bonus is he has worked with a spread offense. Anyone who wouldn't want him on our sidelines is nuts.
How the fuck is someone out of their mind if they would rather have RR than Miles? RR is exact opposite of Miles dude. Miles is a shithead who ruins kids lives.
...but wins. I'm also quite sure that LSU never had issues with liniing up or making sure all 11 guys were on the field.
And the whole OTL story on the QB is extremely exaggerated. The kid wasn't good enough to compete at that level and had a poor attitude about things....ESPN fails to say anything about that.....but when the coach is publicly asked...he HAS to tip-toe around the subject or else he looks like an ass. Last time I checked, the majority of 19 year old kids are immature and have poor attitudes and the coaches are forced to take the high road.
If you are DB, would you rather make the majority of the fan base mad and past players/ath department happy by hiring Hoke or would you rather please most of the fanbase and risk pissing off your peers int he department by hiring Les?
I have no inside information but if we did not even give LM a look last time around, you have to believe there are some giant sized skeletons in that closet.
It's ridiculous that Les Miles supporters want Dave Brandon to babysit our new coach because he might sign too many players. That's awful. Plus, Big Ten recruiting still allows 27 commits per class. 27*4 > 85.
No one will argue that. The point is more that if Coleman and Brandon feel comfortable that they don't have to do something like that with him, why should we be so worked up? They've got more to lose from a bad hire than we do.
You're putting way too much on Mary Sue Coleman here. She would eliminate our athletic department if it didn't turn a profit for the University. I don't think she cares who the next coach is. As for Dave Brandon, we have no idea how well he is with personnel decisions because he hasn't been at UofM long enough. Quite frankly, I don't agree with him treating the athletic department as business (and this is coming from a Ross student). He's been underwhelming so far to me.
And I disagree that they have more to lose. Brandon is still the Chairman of Dominoes' Board of Directors. He has cushy landing spots. As for Coleman, a bad head coach hire will not hurt her position at this University whatsoever. As long as she still raises enough money, she's here until she wants to leave.
has the winning touch
and charisma - good or bad
Miles seems like we will have a shot every year
Hoke seems like a good coach for a perpetual 9-3, 8-4.
He is a buttface.
Miles is only five years older than Hoke. I don't think Miles is coming to Michigan but he would be way better than Hoke.
Michigan needs someone younger. With head coaching experience, Midwest contacts, and a background at Michigan. Good luck with that.
So you only care about winning? Hoke>>>>>than Miles on everything but the winning part. Fuck Miles
Live with it. he is our new coach.
the king is dead.
long live the king.
The Detroit News is reporting today that some former players (Marcus Ray and others from the 97 team) are throwing their support behind Brady Hoke.
It's not like he's 70. He's 57 (or whatever). Sure, it's not an up-and-coming coaching age, but who says we need that to win? Penn State seems to be doing just fine with a 200-year-old coach. Obviously that's a unique scenario...but my point is Brian and others using throwing "age" as a factor is overblown.
Not saying I necessarily want Les Miles as coach here...but I doubt DB is going to discount Miles because he's "old".
Did anyone even stop to think that maybe the kid had it in for Miles. Maybe he was lazy like Boren, Maybe it's his own fault he got his scholarship cut. I would like to point out that Tony Clemons bad mouthed Rich Rod as well as Boren about lack of family values and shady dealings which we believe to be untrue. Maybe this kid just wanted to make Miles look bad because he got his scholarship cut because he's lazy or whatever just like Miles said. I'm not saying it's true, I'm just saying maybe there's another side. Oh yeah and I looked it up and for all you that says Dan Mullen should be hired. Mississippi State ranked in the top ten for schools that oversigned last year. He should be dragged out of his house and shot.
Oversigning his classes really left a bad taste in my mouth, perhaps too much time in the SEC. Michigan is not a "win at all costs" school like most schools in the SEC.
he's a mercenary. and clazy. and a cheater.
So, can someone please tell me how anyone knows without any sense of doubt that Les kicked kids off the team for no just reasons other than to make room for a incoming recruit?
I watched that video of the QB, and I do not believe that its the full story. Could it be? Yes, but could it also not be? Yes.
I watched the same video about the kid getting a "grey shirt" and find that to be much more damning, but I still do not know if the kid or Les is telling the truth.
Les Miles (as I see him):
1. I have watched many LSU games over the years with Les at the helm and have witnessed some dumb clock management moments that either cost him the game or made it more nerve wracking than it should have been. *This makes me question his competence in this aspect of coaching.
2. Recruiting: the above examples cited. Sleaziness level possibly being high. *This does not make me worry he will hurt Michigan with NCAA sanctions, but needs to be understood and watched.
3. Not sure if this counts as a "red flag", but I worry how his recruiting would translate outside of the fertile SEC recruiting grounds. (i.e how much does "southerness", perceived conference prestige, and location factor into his recruiting ability, is Les the great recruiter or is it LSU and its characteristics?)
4. His age: how many more years does he have in the tank? Is he winding down?
5. He eats grass: yuck. I prefer carnivores.
6. This one is really grasping at straws, but when LSU loses it tends to be because of the offense and not the defense. Which, whatever.
7. My anxiety level would go through the roof. He seems to go to a ton of overtime games: 8 OT games in 6 years at LSU and 1 in 4 years at OSU.
1. Winning: constant winning in a very difficult conference. Won a national championship, beat OSU (2007) and Appy State (2008). Excellent resume.
2. Understands Michigan: went to school here, understands the rivalries, Bo, etc.
3. Supposedly a great recruiter: but as I listed above, I'm not sure how much you can attribute to Les. He would bring more southern pipelines.
4. His offense is very dynamic with formations, trick plays, and aggressiveness level. I think he would be able to adapt to our current players easier than a true prostyle guy like Hoke.
5. His defense and special teams always seems to be among the nations elite.
Here is the dealbreaker that makes me think Les Miles cannot be the new HC.
1. We are on probation
2. LSU just self-disciplined and had an assistant resign in an attempt to keep the NCAA from punishing it further.
But seriously, we're on probation; we can't afford to bring a guy with ethics issues. Absolutely no way LM should coach here. With LM we are just as likely to get seriously burned by the NCAA like USC or something as we are to win a conference title.
Here is the dealbreaker that makes me think Les Miles cannot be the new HC.
1. We are on probation
2. LSU just self-disciplined and had an assistant resign in an attempt to keep the NCAA from punishing it further.
But seriously, we're on probation; we can't afford to bring a guy with ethics issues. Absolutely no way LM should coach here. With LM we are just as likely to get seriously burned by the NCAA like USC or something as we are to win a conference title.
sorry repost, how do i delete this?
So whats the difference between Rodriguez who put us on probation and Les who pit them on probation
Stretching and cutting players is different. Also LSU is losing scholarships and the NCAA can still decide to take more away. Michigan did something the NCAA said was exaggerated.
what?? RR is gone, this has nothing to do with him.
Michigan had some of its greatest success with a Mac coach (Bo) and by promoting two assistant coaches (Mo and Lloyd).
This is one reason why I think DB has his head up his rear end, just like Martin did.
We don't need a "name." We need a great coach, wherever he can be found.
Sounds to me like DB's criteria are more about pleasing the media than building for the future.
Why can't he do both?