Who's Watched Texas Tech Play? Thoughts?
As the title says, I'd like anyone who has watched Texas Tech play recently to clue the rest of us in. I seem to recall them as being similar to Florida State, ie, they have some tall individuals you have to fight through. Anyone want to share anything they noticed watching them play?
They have Culver, that's it. Matthews should limit him to a great deal. After that, our overall team is better than their's and we should win. Expect it to be low scoring as both teams are great defensively. We have more "fire power" over all than them. You should feel fairly confident.
wow I totally disagree with this assessment. not saying you're wrong and I'm right but it was funny to see basically the opposite of how I am feeling.
I am pretty concerned with the Poole-Moretti matchup. We need the best and cleanest version of Poole to win.
March 26th, 2019 at 10:31 PM ^
How do you feel confident in the Poole matchup? Poole was dominated by McQuaid 3 times this year....a chinless white boy who was a 1/2 star.
I think we win, but it sure in the hell is not because of Poole.
March 26th, 2019 at 10:44 PM ^
Logged in just to down vote this stupid response. McQuaid was a very effective player and was a 4 star that Michigan recruited. He may not be a "star" but he is a very good college player.
Also, Poole has his problems but played very well in the last game.
Pretty sure this guy read "concerned" in the previous post as "confident" and hence his response made no sense. But yeah, there's no reason to act like McQuaid isn't good. He is a very good college player.
But he had a career high against Poole in the BTT title game. McQuaid dominated a player that is more talented than he is on both ends for three straight games. It was embarrassing, really.
One decent game from Poole (yes, it was just decent, to say he played very well is almost as dumb as saying McQuaid is a 1/2 star: he went 1-6 from two and had an Ortg of 107.2) doesn't alleviate concerns that he could revert to Bad Poole, especially against an opponent that could cause him to get impatient and force things.
It is fair to be concerned with that matchup.
March 27th, 2019 at 10:00 AM ^
McQuaid is the second best defender on a good defense. I don't see the evidence that Poole is more talented on that end of the floor.
MSU's offense and our defensive plan generated a lot of open looks for McQuaid on the perimeter. Winston is so dangerous that opponents have to make difficult choices. MSU's defense was never going to allow that for Poole.
March 27th, 2019 at 11:39 AM ^
Poole is a better athlete and has more talent. He makes some plays on defense that McQuaid can't make (some of his blocks). But he's not nearly the defender McQuaid is not because of talent but because he lacks the effort, smarts and focus to go along with his talent.
Re: the open looks, yes, MSU's offense generates a lot of open looks for their corner gunners because Winston and Tillman are as good as anyone in the pick and roll. On the ones that Poole has to tag the roller and leave McQuaid open, those aren't his fault and I don't blame him for those.
But what is his fault are the frequent plays on which he falls for shot fakes, fouls three point shooters, loses his man in transition, makes dumb switches, fails to box out, reaches, etc.
The mental aspect of his game has a loooong way to go. He makes these errors a lot more than the average second year player that's been starting all year. Incredibly talented player. Highly frustrating too.
Is McQuaid also a scrappy, gutty gym rat?
March 27th, 2019 at 10:35 AM ^
But he had a career high against Poole in the BTT title game.
So, I've been very critical of Poole in general, but that game was terrible coaching and I don't know how else to explain it. Why would you ever leave a 40%+ 3 point shooter wide open at the 3 point line 10+ times a game? Especially after he hit 5 or 6 of those shots? Even Simpson slacked off of him once and gave him an open-ish 3. Watch the Kentucky - Wofford game, they didn't let that 3 point shooter breathe once he got across half court because they knew he wasn't going to drive (neither will McQuaid) and didn't buy the shot fakes (the only move McQuaid has).
There was no adjustment and it all followed the same process:
MSU runs the same P&R (and put McQuaid in the opposite corner/wing)
Michigan keeps making Simpson fight over the top
So Teske hedges and Winston strings him out away from the lane
Tillman rolls to the basket with no one to cover him
Which means the help side defender has to come down (off of McQuaid) to take away the easy Tillman dunk
Which leaves a 40%+ 3 point shooter wide open at the 3 point line
Winston makes the skip pass and McQuaid shoots.
Yes, Poole bit at every pump fake McQuaid threw up (again, coach a close out maybe?) and even got the foul on the one shot fake, but the system was being torn apart and there was no plan B.
I keep saying this, but it's the same thing that happened against OSU in football. OSU/MSU had an offense capable of beating Michigan's preferred defensive approach and Michigan never tried/wasn't capable of executing a different type of defense to counter OSU/MSU's offensive approach.
Offensively, yeah Poole wasn't great. He took bad shots but was also guarded by a top 5 defender in the Big Ten. He was also put in crappy situations by the offense because outside of the 3 or 4 sets ran to get him a back cut lay up (which is basically the only way he scored), he was basically passed the ball with 6 seconds on the shot clock after the offense ran the same P&R that hadn't worked since the first half. It got to a point where he shot faked an open 3 (MSU closed out properly and didn't leave their feet) and then threw up a terrible shot because he had 0 confidence.
Point being, good, not great coaching and not great decision making by Poole/pretty much everyone.
March 27th, 2019 at 11:53 AM ^
Same question I had about Hancock in the 2013 Title Game. Same question I had about Divincenzo in last year's title game.
Beilein is a great coach, but his teams seem to have a tendency to not adjust when some 3-point dude is going off on them. I don't really get this, as they seem to emphasize 3-point defense quite a bit. But they seem to refuse to overplay a guy when he is going nuts, for whatever reason.
Personally, if someone gets that hot against me, I'd tell the guys to overplay like crazy and let him drive in for 2's if he wants. I'd rather give up a few easy 2's than watch a guy drain 3 after 3 on us.
March 27th, 2019 at 12:08 PM ^
My memory of DiVincenzo might be slightly murky, but the guy was pulling up from Neptune and hitting everything. Plus he was a very good athlete and could get to the rim on Matthews a couple of times. Hancock on the other hand, was your stationary 3 point goober.
But yes, generally agreed on your post. It's one thing when a guy like DiVincenzo lights you up because the basket looks like the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel (even with your best defender on him) but the McQuaid thing was an entirely different issue. His ability to get off open 3s was due to a schematic deficiency moreso than Iggy/Poole/whoever just being outplayed by him.
I'm not saying give Tillman open dunks every P&R instead of guarding McQuaid, but if the guy is hot and hitting >50% on catch and shoot 3s, maybe don't give him an extra 5 catch and shoot 3s over the normal ones he gets when a play breaks down or he gets lost in transition (and coach your guys to close out without leaving earth trying to get a block). You don't want to completely trash your approach to stop 1 guy (for fear of another guy getting some momentum) but you can make minor adjustments that at least makes player A's game a little more difficult.
Completely agree.
Changing your whole approach because one guy is hitting an unusually high rate of shots is totally irresponsible. You have to play the percentages on defense.
It's like blackjack. If you double down a couple times against a dealer's six and he pulls a hand to beat you, you don't change your approach because he's "hot". You trust in the law of averages and if he stays hot, tip your cap and walk away defeated.
It's funny, because everyone complained about leaving Tillman open for dunks in the first game. So Michigan (correctly) tagged him longer with their wings to take away very high percentage dunks with a willingness to give up lower percentage threes. That was a worthwhile tradeoff.
Remember, Michigan gave up a highly respectable 1.07 points per possession (62 on 58 possession) before end of game foul time against a very good offense. And that included boneheaded plays like fouling McQuaid on a three point shot fake.
Tillman was held to a relatively meh 106 Ortg and just 9 points. Ward was worse with just 4 points on 6 shots. Michigan did what they wanted inside and the tradeoff against a good team was to give up some threes. Even with McQuaid hitting 7-13 (which he's not going to do many nights), Michigan's defensive gameplan was sound and the result was plenty good enough to win.
They lost that game on a bunch of very dumb second half possessions on offense.
And for the record, Michigan was a bad defensive team with generally bad game plans before they had a defensive coordinator. That they left Luke Hancock open in the National Title game was not because of making smart tradeoffs (I don't believe). That was just a poor game plan but it's irrelevant to the coaching now.
And DiVincenzo was just hitting some insane shots. That was a tip of the cap situation for the most part.
Totally agree. Winston was nailing the pass to the wing in Big Tourney. With either Poole or Simpson sagging to help with a cutter, Winston was finding a passing lane quick. Frustrating to watch, but he was dishing crisp and perfect passes. I do, however think Poole doesn't have confidence or determination to pass inside on the hot defense. Hoping he finds success tonight.
Winston lit Michigan up in the second half of the first two meetings. Michigan's defense in the title game was specifically designed to limit the ability for Winston to single handedly win the game in the second half.
It forced Winston to be able to make a very difficult cross-court pass to McQuaid multiple times. This is/was a better option than letting him drive, pass to Tillman, or pull up for open 3's based on previous results. Unfortunately, he was able to make that difficult pass multiple times because he is a very good player. You were still forcing him into the hardest of the options available.
To his credit, McQuaid hit the shots he was given. It happens. Had you rotated the defense to stop McQuaid, it opens the P&R game up for Winston and Tillman. Try to keep that shut down also and it opens the corner three for Goins (who hurt Michigan in the first meeting from deep) or Henry to drive (which is his best skill).
I think it is time to accept MSU's players when running their offense effectively is a very difficult team to defend.
This is the correct take. You can't take away everything. A well designed offense in which every player presents a scoring threat (and in particular has an All American do everything PG orchestrating) is difficult to stop.
You can't take away everything
Bit of a straw man here. I never said or expected Michigan to "take away everything." But when 1 player is torching you from the outside and you continually leave him open because of how you defend the P&R, then maybe the way you defend the P&R isn't the best approach.
Winston had a combined 54 points and 26 assists this year against Michigan. He's obviously going to run that offense efficiently and Tillman is no slouch, but you make him finish contested 2s at the rim (preferably over Matthews or Teske) instead of letting a spot up shooter spot up and rain fire from above. At least make the approach differ from possession to possession rather than look at McQuaid's 5th 3 and say "welp, nothing you can do about that."
March 27th, 2019 at 11:22 PM ^
Michigan ran the defense to take away the other shooters in the second half of the second MSU game. Winston repeatedly drove to the hoop with Teske trying to contest in a trail position. I can’t remember the exact number but Winston went for approx 14 points in the second half of that game.
I believe because of that performance Michigan adjusted their rotation and said Winston and Tillman are not going to beat us let’s see if the other guys can. Turns out in that game, they could.
Many years ago the two best high school teams in Iowa met in the state playoff. Fred Hoiberg led one team and a guy by the name of Hurl Beachum led the other. Fred was more accomplished but Hurl was a very good scorer in high school. He went off for 40-something points including 9 threes against Hoiberg. After the game they asked the coach why he let Hurl score so much. He said “first, he’s a pretty good scorer and we wanted him to prove he could shoot from the outside”. Naturally they followed up asking why they didn’t change the defense after the first 5 or 6 threes. The coach said, “we didn’t think he could keep hitting them, besides, it was still better than giving him layups”.
The point is sometimes there are no more adjustments. Had Michigan decided to keep Poole out on McQuaid, it’s a second half repeat of Winston scoring at will and everyone would be asking why Beilein never adjusted all year to stop Winston. Winston simply played his best basketball all year against Michigan. Short of running a rotated box and one, I don’t think there were many other options. And most teams don’t practice running that defense for good reason.
Great story, problem is "the guy did it to me 6 times, I didn't think he'd do it to me 8 times" doesn't look so good when the guy does it to you 10 times.
Moreover, in McQuaid's situation, he was standing there waiting for the ball. It wasn't even that he was hitting step back 3s in Poole's eye or making shots you just can't defend like DD for Nova last year. He was hitting shots with no one around him (or side step 3s because no one closed out properly) and by the time Simpson had a decent close out on him, he was in rhythm and hit that one too.
You don't need to run some wacky box and one or throw out a 1-3-1 zone. But you also don't run the same defense 10 times, lose 8 of those possessions, and continue to run the same thing over and over again. That's what the defense does against OSU in football and gives up a record 50+ points.
As for Winston in the 2nd game, yeah he hit a ton or difficult shots over Teske, Castleton, and even Simpson in the 2nd half. What do you think the percentages are on those types of shots versus a spot up shooter hitting a spot up 3? Winston was 6/11 from 2 that game. That's 1.09 PPP. McQuaid was 7/13 from 3 in the 3rd games (lucky he wasn't 9/13), that's 1.61 PPP. I'm not saying throw the kitchen sink to stop McQuaid because he probably isn't going to hit 54% on another 5 attempts from deep, but dear god do something.
The point is sometimes there are no more adjustments.
Not to put words in your mouth, but that basically boils down to "Better hope MSU misses wide open shots because that's the only way we keep them from scoring." McQuaid shot 41% on 3s against Michigan in 3 games. Goins shot 31%. Winston shot 15%. They did a good job keeping Winston from taking 3s in general, but I'd rather him come around a screen and have to pull up with some traffic around him than kick to a wide open catch and shoot 3 point goober who hits >45% on those types of shots.
You were still forcing him into the hardest of the options available.
So 1/2 court passes (wasn't like he was on the right elbow throwing to the left corner) aren't easy, but he did it time and time and time again. I'd rather him try to finish in the lane over Matthews/Teske than repetitively string out Teske on the hedge, spread the floor, and find an open shooter for a catch and shoot 3. He's great, but a pull up 3 << McQuaid standing in a spot 13 times (lucky he only hit 7 and not 9 or 10). Or even if you leave him open, coach your players to close out under control instead of fly by him so he can't side step (his only move) for an open 3.
Moreover, the idea that the you have to choose between an open spot up 3 by McQuaid, pull up 3 from Winston, or dunk by Tillman isn't entirely accurate. They always had Teske hedge hard and Simpson fight over the screen, giving Tillman the roll and pulling the 7'1" rim protector 25+ feet from the basket. We know Winston can hit pull up 3s, but I don't remember them forcing him into 1 outside of the banked 3 he made at Breslin on a kind of broken play. He took a lot of drives to the lane and finished some but not others. When it was Simpson on him, easy layup because Simpson can't block him (almost did on 1). When he had to finish over Teske/Castleton it was the far most difficult shot of the bunch.
There are plenty of different ways to approach a P&R. Hard to stop MSU's with any consistency, but allowing a spot up shooter to go off for 7 threes isn't exactly an inspiring approach. Quick hedge and go under a screen or 2. Trap on the screen or hedge with Simpson so Winston can't even get to the pick (like Texas Tech defends middle court P&R). Do something other than expect the thing that has killed you 6 times to fail the 7th time.
March 26th, 2019 at 10:55 PM ^
It just so happens those are 3 of mcquaids best 5 games as a player at staee. He’s just been hot those games. Last year he didn’t do anything against us, like at all. I would be angry and have the best games of my career too if I looked bad the year before against my arch rival.
There is a reason why McPoyle has been having huge games against us this year.
Watch MSU play. He does the same thing everytime down the floor. He shuffles out to the wing and literally just stands behind the 3-point line with his hands on his thighs and watches the entire play. Once a shot goes up, he runs in to try and slap the rebound back out.
Michigan has struggled so bad with Winston and Tillman/Goins in the pick and roll that the defense ends up collapsing and leaving McPoyle standing in his spot unguarded.
This is essentially correct, but that is kind of the counter-point to the original poster blasting Poole. He wasn't great on McPoyle this year but it was seldom that his man to man defense that resulted in McPoyle offense. He had the two three point fouls (poor defensive discipline, yes), McPoyle shot faked him and drained a first half three at Crisler, and he missed a box-out for a McPoyle put back and-one at Breslin. A lot of other McPoyle offense came from broken plays where he ended up with the ball or poor team defensive rotation. A lot of his makes against Michigan in the BTT were the result of poor Iggy rotation/closeouts and had nothing to do with Poole.
March 27th, 2019 at 10:14 AM ^
This is true. Both Poole and Iggy have been lazy/slow in trying to pinch down to help inside and then get back out to run their man off the 3-point line. Poole especially looked silly multiple times against McPoyle when he was late getting back. He was out of control and either fouled him or ended up basically in the bench after the shot fake.
March 27th, 2019 at 10:42 AM ^
He was out of control and either fouled him or ended up basically in the bench after the shot fake.
To which I will again say, where's the coaching? All 3 MSU games, Poole, Iggy, and Livers jumped out of their shoes on shot fakes multiple times. McQuaid drew 3!!! shooting fouls 25 feet from the basket. 2 were on Poole for being undisciplined, and 1 was on Matthews (which wasn't a bad play because McQuaid pulled a Poole and looked like he got shot when he released the ball and the refs bought it). He only has 1 god damn move! Shot fake, side step 3.
Moreover, the lazy closeouts being a problem, why, when MSU is slicing the defense using the same P&R over and over again, does Michigan continue to play the same defense? Holding MSU to <1.0PPP for a half is great. But they went on stretches where they scored almost every possession and the response was "keep running the same defense!"
March 27th, 2019 at 11:03 AM ^
The primary defenders on McPoyle are young-inexperienced defenders. You're right, he does not have an expansive arsenal of offensive moves. But McPoyle doing the things he did against us this year is not uncommon for him. They guy is pretty gross but has been making dagger threes against other BIG teams for three years now. He has just never done it against Michigan. MAAR was a really savvy defender with a lot of experience against McPoyle, and just always played him well and stayed disciplined. I think Poole and Iggy will grow into being good, disciplined defenders, but coaches just can't snap their fingers and get rid of bad defensive habits overnight.
March 27th, 2019 at 11:35 AM ^
I'm not expecting a snap of the finger to fix the defensive issues (as few as there are) but it's not entirely inexperience that resulted in that BTT game onslaught of wide open 3s.
Poole's brain turning to mush and biting on a shot fake is 1 thing (that happened over multiple games so... come on, that should be repped out of existence by now), but leaving the catch-and-shoot 3 point shooter alone at the 3 point line over and over and over again wasn't due to Poole's/whoever's inexperience as much as it was the scheme that the coaching staff wanted ran. I'm not expecting some ingenious schematic adjustment that turns MSU into a 0.25 PPP offense (because that's impossible). I just expect there not to be a repetitive 10 minute stretch where they do whatever they want running the same thing 15 times and scoring 1.5 PPP (that's probably an exaggeration).
Once MSU figured out how to pick apart Michigan's initial defense of the P&R with Winston/Tillman (it did take them 30 minutes each time, which is impressive), Michigan's response was... keep doing what you're doing.
On their own, Teske/Matthews/Simpson are great defenders who can win a lot of games by just being themselves (Poole, Iggy, and Livers can hold their own too). But when they run up against a team (or a 10 minute section of a game where a team is firing on all cylinders) that can win a majority of the possessions, you have to have a change up/response. That's what coaching is. Beilein and Yak are very good/great coaches, but they've been out-coached in the 2nd half of all 3 MSU games. And to be fair, MSU is a very, very good team. But, if you want to win a Championship you have to be a very, very good coach, have very good players, and get a little lucky too. Last year had the great coaching, maybe short 1 more very good player (Poole and Livers were young), and ran out of luck late (also, Nova was stupid loaded). This year the coaching has been good but not great in the biggest of situations, they're still probably 1 very good player short, but haven't been unlucky. They could very well win the tourney, they could very well lose against TT. Not winning it all wouldn't be a disappointment or rage inducing, but it also wouldn't be something we look back on and say "that team hit their ceiling" especially if they play MSU again and lose because of a 10 minute stretch of bad basketball.
March 27th, 2019 at 12:29 PM ^
I cannot disagree with a thing that you said, but I think the biggest issue with the MSU games is that we stopped scoring. MSU has some talented offensive players and they are going to eventually find their stride. We could not match it on the other end, people were afraid to shoot, and the player who would shoot, Poole, has been getting in trouble all year for shooting.
March 27th, 2019 at 12:36 PM ^
Absolutely. The offensive side of the ball wasn't any better than the defensive side for those 10 minute stretches. An entirely different discussion, but similarly guys weren't put into advantageous positions and it snowballed.
March 27th, 2019 at 11:33 AM ^
McQuaid made most of his noise in the last game diding out in the corners after switches. It seemed to me that Iggy was mostly at fault for not rotating properly.
Is the whole chinless comment really needed? Come on now...
mcquaid was a 4 star
March 27th, 2019 at 12:39 PM ^
I'm glad someone knows a bit about them. I figure we have to play one of our worst games to lose this one. And I fully expect us to be part of the Elite 8 again. I see Livers and Iggy having strong games and Simpson doing Simpson.
GO BLUE!!
Expect a game in the 50s, and lots of ugly possessions. That’s just how both these teams play. Jarret Culver is a lottery pick and by far their best player. A more polished version of Charles Matthews I would say. Their guard play isn’t near as good as ours (not many teams do) and that should be the big difference.
Good
User name checks out...
Taped to watch later.
Culver is legit, big, good player.
Defense similar to wisc. Two floppers owens and moody, Watch it with those guys, Good d, they sag in the middle a ton. Last year's M team would have a field day shooting 3s, this M team will have to prove it, but many open threes available. Especially from corners.
TT good team, we are better.
March 26th, 2019 at 10:47 PM ^
Probably listens to music on 8-track tapes too.
Sounds like some solid defensive principles-take away the baseline and clog up the middle...and let them shoot that 15 footer on the baseline-on out to the corner all day long-few can do it well enough to beat you-if they do you congratulate them in the end.
I have not seen them play...don't think I need to predict this as a Michigan win. The next BG12 school that plays soundly enough to beat a team like Michigan in a venue like this in the past 15 years, other than Kansas, will be a first. Michigan will have to play very poorly...I just do not see it happening
March 27th, 2019 at 10:12 AM ^
1. I don't recall losing to Kansas in a venue like this
2. We lost to Oklahoma in 2009 in the second round.
don't remind me of the blake griffin love fest; both by the refs and the media, with the constant shots of his parents. we played Okla even. the refs sealed the deal.
THey rely on points of turnovers and getting to the line . We don’t foul or turn it over ! West viginia beat them by pressuring the pg and running off texas tech’s mistakes ! I feel iggy and matthews can get to rack on them .
March 26th, 2019 at 10:30 PM ^
So fucking drunk lol
We both have equivalent, fantastic defenses.
Our offense is a fair bit better.
The bulk of their offense is one dude that Charles should shut down.
It's probably 60/40 us.
I'll LOL if we win 60-40
I know what you mean tho.
March 26th, 2019 at 10:00 PM ^
Given these two defenses, 60-40 might be realistic.
As a Kansas fan I got to watch them quite a bit this year. Tech plays good defense all the time. They can be relentless. Only Michigan and UVA allow less points per game. Offensively they are incredibly hot and cold. They’re either lighting it up or can’t hit a shot to save their lives. They are well coached, and confident. They won’t be intimidated. I think it’s going to be a very difficult game for Michigan unless Michigan’s offense is consistent. It’s almost certainly going to be a low scoring game. Vegas over under isset at 126.5 and majority of tickets are on the under. Tech isn’t a deep team so getting them into foul trouble could work big in our favor. I won’t bet on this game, but Tech hasn’t seen a defense like Michigan’s all season so I lean Michigan. Also the big ten was much tougher this year than the big twelve.
O/U yesterday at Bovada was 126 and the money was favoring the over. Today it's 126 and -110 on both sides. I'm a contrarian bettor. When the public hypes one way I usually go the other way so I am going to take the over.
March 26th, 2019 at 10:36 PM ^
You just nailed the difference. Mich beat UNC, Villa, and played a big ten schedule. TT plays in B12 basketball. Big difference. Mich has been there done that in the tourney and b10. TT will be shell shocked by the competiton and fold. Mich wins easier than the analysts (and sheep mich fans listening to them) believe.
March 26th, 2019 at 10:57 PM ^
I watched as much of their game against Buffalo as I could stand (some butt-ass boring basketball).
Their guards didn't appear to be much of a threat outside of Culver (they play a three guard offense) and they're small up front.
I don't see UM turning the ball over much against their defense.
Getting the same feeling as last year when we lined up against Texas A&M. They're overrated and there is a good chance win going away.