What LSU Bo Pelini history teaches about Michigan
Bo Pelini is the new defensive coordinator of National Champs LSU.
In looking up more about him, the situation at Nebraska struck me as quite pertinent to Michigan today.
From 2004-2007, the once-proud Nebraska football team had a winning percentage of 55%. In 2007, its record was 5-7.
In 2008, Bo Pelini was appointed head coach. In 2008, Nebraska went to 9-4 record. In 2008-2010, Nebraska was in the Big 12, and was 1st place in the Big 12 or tied for 1st place all those years. Nebraska moved to the Big 10 in 2011. From 2008 to 2014, Nebraska under Pelini generated a 71% winning percentage (which is in the top 10-15 range for college coaches).
However, although the team was winning 9-10 games every season in the Big 10, Pelini did not produce Big 10 Championships. There were Nebraska factions arguing that he should be fired in order to get a coach that would win Big 10 Championships. After 4 years in the Big 10, they did just that -- fired Bo Pelini to upgrade.
Enter Mike Riley, the guy they thought would do it. His 1st year, Nebraska went 6-7. Then an improvement to 9-4, but then the next year 4-8. Clearly not a guy giving them championships. Not even in the same league as Pelini. They fired Riley.
Enter Scott Frost, the guy they next thought could do it. A superstar for his last season coaching UCF, he clearly was the hot new coach who would make it happen. Frost's 1st year was 4-8, same as Riley's last year. Frost's next year was 5-7. Will he be the guy to surpass Bo Pelini? Maybe. Maybe not. He certainly is far from that so far.
This to me is a perfect example for a certain faction of Michigan malcontents.
Harbaugh is approx. a top-10 coach in winning %. If you think it is more likely that Michigan can find a better coach than it is for Harbaugh to improve, your football knowledge is restricted to Georgia and Oklahoma (and maybe LSU -- needs a few more years) and does not include Nebraska, Florida State, USC, Miami, Texas, Arkansas, Tennessee, Miss. State, Ole Miss, etc. It is significantly more likely to pull a Nebraska (or Florida State or Miami or USC or . . .).
January 28th, 2020 at 4:53 AM ^
I think this is a good comparison. For me, the primary problem with Harbaugh is beating Ohio State....that's really it. If he had 1 or 2 wins against them, I think much of the fanbase would feel completely different, myself included. Averaging 9-10 wins a year, and beating Ohio St. two out of five (I'd even take 1 of 3 at this point), would make me satisfied.
January 28th, 2020 at 6:23 AM ^
He had one in 2016... just sayin'
January 28th, 2020 at 10:26 AM ^
2016 will forever be a scar on integrity in sports and changed the Harbaugh narrative. I still think the ceiling under Harbaugh is yet to be reached.
January 28th, 2020 at 12:30 PM ^
It was a judgement call, not a disregard of the rules, or a missed penalty. How about they tackle Samuels on the previous play and give themselves more margin for error?
January 28th, 2020 at 1:59 PM ^
That's the problem. The previous play had three missed penalties at the very least. They should have never been in 4th and short in the first place.
January 28th, 2020 at 4:55 PM ^
yep - when youre clearly the better team you need to do enough to take it out of the refs hands. earn a stop on D or bleed a few more first downs on O so a fluke play doesnt beat you. it doesnt always happen and its tough to put away good teams but the top programs usually find a way
January 28th, 2020 at 10:32 AM ^
He had one in 2016.....with Hoke's players (Wormley, Charlton, Peppers, Hurst, Stribling, Lewis.....even Speight). Obviously Harbaugh has made strides on the OL and has had some standouts like Gary and Bush....but it seems like the best roster in 5 full seasons was filled with Hoke's players (and I don't see the 2020 team being ahead of 2016 either).
January 28th, 2020 at 11:03 AM ^
No. He didn't. People that claim Michigan won that game sound like delusional toolbags. Stop making up your own fictional history of Michigan football.
January 28th, 2020 at 11:15 AM ^
This. It was a close a call and it didn’t go our way. Had Harbaugh not gone conservative in the 4th, we wouldn’t have left that one for the refs to determine. That was the take away from that game.
January 28th, 2020 at 12:04 PM ^
I still have nightmares about the hands to the face call on I think Mason Cole on a lonnnnnng Deveon screen in the 4th. I thought the game was close to being iced there.
January 28th, 2020 at 12:38 PM ^
If we just get one first down in that 4th, it might have been enough...
January 28th, 2020 at 12:55 PM ^
Same as the loss against Iowa. The inability to grind when needed to ice a game has been a killer for Harbaugh at Michigan.
January 28th, 2020 at 1:14 PM ^
I was in Italy for that game, and contemplated staying up all night to watch it, and then realized I’m in Italy and wisely decided against it. But seeing that weird score, one so typical of an Iowa game, when I woke up really screwed with my mind.
January 28th, 2020 at 9:34 PM ^
How many interceptions had Speight thrown before the 4th qtr??
January 28th, 2020 at 9:28 AM ^
And (no disrespect to you), if that's the metric we hold Harbaugh to, we are screwed. I'm not sure any coach could have beaten OSU twice in this time frame outside of Bama and Clemson. And let's face it, Bama and Clemson are in a different "place" than us program wise.
January 28th, 2020 at 2:08 PM ^
While Clemson is the only team to have beaten them twice since 2015, Penn State has a win and two one point losses, MSU beat them, and Oklahoma, Iowa and Purdue destroyed them. It’s not unreasonable to look at that list and be frustrated that we haven’t been able to beat them even once.
January 29th, 2020 at 6:55 AM ^
So you are forgetting that OSUs pro athletes take at least half a game off a season, sometimes many halves, sometimes the entire week before, but never against Michigan, especially since that is the week all the NFL scouts check in on them.
January 28th, 2020 at 12:28 PM ^
Sure, the biggest problem is beating OSU.
But if that was the only problem, we'd be expecting 11-1 some years. Instead, we have 9-3, 10-2, 8-4, 10-2, 9-3. "Decent" records for sure, made a bit less so if you consider the addition of Rutgers and Maryland to our schedule every year.
Nope, these records are due to a number of big problems: inconsistent - though flashy, at times - recruiting, below-average player development and in-game coaching, a seeming inability to get this team to play to its ability on the road, and a D scheme that falls short against good teams. I would add scheme on O, but that seems to be improving.
Putting aside that JH won't be fired, I'd be fine moving on from him, ASSUMING a quality, thorough coaching search to find a solid coach who can be expected to improve on these results.
January 28th, 2020 at 12:45 PM ^
We're in a tough division, and currently have Wisconsin on rotation. Between UW and PSU, that's 2 equals on our schedule, not to mention those years Dantonio had MSU top 10. I don't know that it's fair to expect UM to go 11-1 every year, when PSU, Wisconsin, ND and MSU (not of late, but all last decade) perform at a similar or better level, while going after the same pool of recruits.
January 28th, 2020 at 4:38 PM ^
A good post here. Thanks for the civility. But I didn't say "every" year, I said "some" years. Big difference there. With the improvement in our rivals and the difficulty of our schedule, it's not at all realistic to go 11-1 consistently with one virtually guaranteed loss for the foreseeable future.
Under Harbaugh, OSU is basically an auto-loss. Wisconsin is a toss-up depending on home and road (2-2 record) and PSU is in our favor (3-2 record). MSU looks to be an easier win going forward, and JH holds the 3-2 edge there. Is that great? Is an average 9.4 regular-season wins adequate? I mean, yeah, it's pretty good. But it does not give me happiness.
PSU has improved. Wisconsin has improved. Minnesota has improved. OSU has improved so much that they are in the CFP picture every year.
So, I'd like to see us improve. On that basis, I'd be okay with moving on from Harbaugh. Yeah, it might suck. But, to me, where we are now kinda sucks. Therefore, I'm okay with taking a shot. Other people aren't, and that's fine.
January 28th, 2020 at 5:44 AM ^
If you’re ok with a ceiling of 9-10 win ceilings and 3rd in the B1G then Harbaugh is your guy. He’s not beating OSU anytime soon, if ever. Is there a coach that can come in and do that? I don’t know the answer to that. But if you think there is then it’s time for Harbaugh to move on.
January 28th, 2020 at 6:08 AM ^
But who do you get to do that? Nebraska fired Pelini and had to settle for a guy coming off of a 5-7 season, and have been... not good... ever since. Whether you’re content with 9-10 wins or not is pretty irrelevant. You don’t fire a guy winning 9-10 games without a clear plan moving forward. If you can’t identify a coach you have a great feeling is an absolute upgrade, you don’t make that move. Period.
January 28th, 2020 at 6:48 AM ^
I don’t know who else to get therefore I don’t think it would be the right move to fire Harbaugh. I just don’t have any confidence he can unearth the catapult needed to leap frog OSU and I hate saying that but what have we seen to make us think he’s anywhere close to doing that? It makes me sad because I like Harbaugh and want him to succeed.
January 28th, 2020 at 7:45 AM ^
I don't know shit about shit other than lifting, but IMHO it needs to be someone under 50 that can come in and recruit like gangbusters.
January 28th, 2020 at 10:45 AM ^
Ok I'll apply
January 28th, 2020 at 10:56 AM ^
IMHO your HO is wrong
Best 2020 Recruiting classes (per 24/7)
1) Clemson - Dabo Swinney
2) Bama - Nick Saban
3) Georgia - Kirby Smart
4) LSU - Ed Orgeron
5) Ohio State - Urban Meyer / Ryan Day** - yes I'm still giving Urban partial credit for OSUs recruiting success
6) Texas A&M (Jimbo Fisher)
Only 2** of these coaches are under 50 (Smart and Day)
Only Smart and Day are significantly younger than Harbaugh and 2 of the top 5 are actually older than Harbaugh (Saban and Orgeron)
January 28th, 2020 at 7:11 AM ^
The lesson from Pelini's history reminds me of another history lesson: one that Abraham Lincoln had during the Civil War.
(For everyone saying "Huh?", just stay with me for a minute.)
In 1862 there was a great deal of dissatisfaction with Gen. George McClellan's performance as commander of the Union's Army of the Potomac (and for good reason). One day Lincoln was being badgered by a self-important congressman, who insisted that McClellan MUST be replaced immediately. Lincoln (who was no fan of McClellan) asked Congressman Self-Important who he should replace the general with.
The congressman replied "Anybody!"
Lincoln shook his head. Anybody might be fine for you, he replied, but I have to have SOMEBODY.
That's kinda what we have here. You want Harbaugh out? OK, fine. Who's the SOMEBODY you get to replace him? Is SOMEBODY a clear upgrade? And can you realistically get SOMEBODY to leave their current position and come to UM?
If not, then we get stuck with an anybody, like Harbaugh's two predecessors.
PS to the Civil War buffs: Yes, I know it's not a perfect analogy. After all, Harbaugh has won a lot more than McClellan ever did.
January 28th, 2020 at 7:48 AM ^
this is a picture right after team warm-ups, but before the big game. lincoln was tall, like tarik black. mcclellan short, like, well, shea patterson. eventually they scored.
January 28th, 2020 at 2:39 PM ^
Obviously someone wasn't watching the weakside... as I recall history... LINCOLN WAS SHOT IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD!
Did the north really win? I dunno, I'm still seeing rebel flags around here in the south quite often, not to mention it was a rebel coup'de'taut against a sovereign nation not unlike a terrorist attack/war.
FYI Grant eventually became "the guy", and won the military war with leadership off the battlefield; and Lee stepping in line after he turned over his army.
The point being...this wasn't a win for either side, many... MANY supporters of Lincoln felt he fell horribly short on how the South should have been dealt with. And just look at all the issues we've had with race relations since.
Shoulda nipped that shit right from the start instead of allowing terrorists (yes they were) to sign a piece of paper to drop their guns and go home. It smells of a horrible lack of accountability.
January 28th, 2020 at 6:40 PM ^
Too soon.
January 28th, 2020 at 8:26 AM ^
The somebody turned out to be Grant and Sherman, definitely not McClellan.
January 28th, 2020 at 8:40 AM ^
Hoke was McClellan. Harbaugh had better be Grant, just chipping away at this thing until finally breaking through. Would have been nice if he had been Sherman.
January 28th, 2020 at 9:15 AM ^
To continue the metaphor, that would mean that Harbaugh would need to over-recruit by double that of the other side, have access to better training/equipment, and be willing to send 8,000 to injury in a meaningless scrimmage.
Grant got the job done, but he wasn't nicknamed the butcher for his effect on opposing troops.
I do like the image of Harbaugh as Sherman burning his way through Ohio, though without the inhumanity and atrocity that goes along with pillaging
January 28th, 2020 at 9:33 AM ^
I imagine the Horseshoe in ruins, mangled like a Sherman Necktie.
January 28th, 2020 at 10:01 AM ^
Grant and Sherman both recognized that winning was the ultimate goal, and how you got there was not relevant. Yes, they both "used up their soldiers", but how many more would have died (both sides were Americans, no matter what you may think of the Confederacy) if they had frittered away another couple years fighting more inconclusive battles?
As long as Lincoln was alive the Union was going to win, yes, but we know how that turned out too.
And atrocities in war are a matter of perspective. Sherman broke the will of the Confederacy with the sack of Atlanta and subsequent march to the sea. No small feat as Americans have been known to be stubborn even in the face of getting their asses kicked.
January 28th, 2020 at 7:43 AM ^
But who do you get to do that?
Hire Gene Smith as our AD? He seems to have it figured out.
January 28th, 2020 at 8:34 AM ^
I'd take a chance on Fleck or even Brent Venables, I think both would win 9/10 games here each year. Both would cost less and seem to have the fire at recruiting. I don't think you could pull him from UF but i'd also take Dan Mullen over JH. Look at what he has done at Mississippi State and UF. But i don't think he would come here, he also has a problem with beating his rival right now. I don't think the way to become elite is to stand pat. I'm not ok with going 0-5 against OSU, i'd even suggest that PSU is a better program at the current moment.
January 28th, 2020 at 9:00 AM ^
I'd take a chance on Fleck
Fleck is a Tressel disciple. He won't come to UM.
I don't think you could pull him from UF but i'd also take Dan Mullen over JH
I think Mullen is a fine coach, but I don't think he'll beat OSU just like he won't beat Bama. He is in the most talent rich state in the country and still doesn't recruit any better than UM. He should be a top 5 recruiting class every year.
January 28th, 2020 at 9:15 AM ^
He was a GA at OSU for one season 15 years ago and that makes him a Tressel disciple?
He spent 3 years with Schiano (2 at Rutgers and 1 at Tampa Bay). I'd say he is a Schiano disciple.
January 28th, 2020 at 10:43 AM ^
He was a GA at OSU for one season 15 years ago and that makes him a Tressel disciple?
You can define disciple however you wish, but he references Tressel as a mentor. He says "he was a huge influence on my life". His sideline attire is based on that influence. Based on how favorably he talks about Tressel and how he appears to have disdain for UM I'm assuming he's unlikely to ever coach at UM. Schiano also coached at UM. I'm not trying to get into a debate about who he's a disciple of, but rather trying to give some information as to why I think he's unlikely to ever coach at UM.
I don't know how to embed any longer, but here's a link to PJ talking about Tressel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U2Xb0Cyu1s
Edit...mean Schiano coached at OSU, not UM
January 28th, 2020 at 10:54 AM ^
Schiano also coached at UM.
I assume you mean University of Miami.
January 28th, 2020 at 11:08 AM ^
Sorry typo...meant OSU
January 28th, 2020 at 11:41 AM ^
Tressel was known for the sweater vest. I don't think I've ever seen Fleck in a sweater vest, usually he has a zip up jacket.
But it shouldn't be surprising that the guy talks fondly of the coach who gave him his first shot. That doesn't mean he has disdain for UM.
January 28th, 2020 at 12:36 PM ^
Tressel was known for the sweater vest. I don't think I've ever seen Fleck in a sweater vest, usually he has a zip up jacket.
According to Fleck his tie is "an homage to Tressel (and Mike Nolan)". He notes "when a man affixes a necktie, he is preparing for a special occasion".
January 28th, 2020 at 12:52 PM ^
And Harbaugh wore glasses as an homage to Woody Hayes for a while, does that make him a traitor?
You aren't making very convincing arguments.
January 28th, 2020 at 4:05 PM ^
Should I take that as an admission that Fleck has in fact been significantly influenced by Tressel, models his appearance and demeanor after him, and could be considered a Tressel disciple? I guess once we settle that, then we can move on.
January 28th, 2020 at 4:26 PM ^
No.
Just because the guy chooses to wear a tie doesn't mean that he is a "disciple" and would never consider coaching at UM.
January 29th, 2020 at 7:43 AM ^
Well, then I guess we have to agree to disagree.
January 28th, 2020 at 1:14 PM ^
This is overblown. Bo was a Woody guy. Urban Meyer was an OSU GA for a year or two, and he always said that there were 3 jobs he would override any veto his family tried to put on him: OSU, ND, and yes, Michigan.
While every person associated with OSU hates Michigan, there's one thing they value more than that hate, and that's respect for the rivalry itself.
If they ever do fire Harbaugh, I think you have to go after OSU's top assistant. That's the only way you get someone who would "get it"
January 28th, 2020 at 9:34 AM ^
And Bo was a woody disciple, being a disciple doesn’t mean shit about where they will and won’t go. With that said I don’t want fleck to take over for Harbaugh, but that still is a stupid reason as to why he wouldn’t come. Fleck isn’t even what I would call a true tressel disciple anyway even if that was a decent reason, he was there for 1 ga year.