Top Recruit that Could Have Turned The Table for Michigan Football?
Everyone once in a while I go back through Rival's database and look at some players who were once being recruited by Michigan and could have had a major impact if they would have committed to Michigan (e.g. Justin King, Taylor Mays, Nick Perry, etc.)
Today's Prospect: Brian Cushing. I dug up this little bit from an older article.
“It was disappointing because I was basically telling Michigan if they offered I was going to commit,” Cushing noted. “I just think they were not real sure about me.”
I can't imagine that we would have lost with him lining up next do David Harris in 06. Trying to debate what would be a better upgrade for the 06 Team
Cushing instead of Chris Graham or Justin King over Morgan Trent
Pat White would have helped in 2007.
you mean 08?
Yes. I'm an idiot that just finished a really long day.
Munchie Legaux
but what of the Shav Beaver?
Munchie the Beaver?
Ted Ginn wanted to come to U-M as well.
Uh, Terrelle Pryor?
Seantrel?
EDIT: Everybody has a few misses recruiting. Even USC, Florida, Texas etc.
I made it this far but can go no further. Yes, if we recruited better we probably would have won more often. But if our team was in better physical shape in the latter Carr years we probably would have won more too. And if Mike Debord was not the O Coordinator we probably would have won more.
Enough.
Mike DeBord was not the reason Ohio State scored 37 points on Michigan in 2004.
Nor was he the reason Henne, Hart and Long were all injured in 2005.
He was a part of the reason why Michigan began the 2006 season 11-0.
He had little to do with the fact that Johnny Sears started against App. St.
His offense did not give up 34 points to App. St. Nor did it give up 39 to Oregon, nor 37 to Wisconsin.
He was not the cause of Henne and Hart's constant injuries in 2007.
However, his offense did cause Tim Tebow to suffer his only loss in a bowl game.
What selective criticism. DeBord coordinated a national championship winning offense, had Braylon, Marquise, Terrell, Henson (who put up 38 on Ohio State), Brady, Perry, Hart, Henne, Long, Avant, Breaston. Not goodt enough for you?
DeBord had his share of problems, but I think they're vastly exaggerated
I agree that Mike Debord does not deserve a lot of blame. Couple things though.
While his offense didn't give up 39 to Oregon, it did only put up 7 against Oregon and obviously wasn't doing the defense many favors that game. Seemed like we had no idea what to do with the ball once we got into the red zone that entire first half. While his offense didn't give up 34 nor have Johnny Sears, it did only put up 32 against a D-1AA opponent.
Debord did coordinate some great offenses and players, minus Braylon, Perry, Avant, and the first 2 years of Hart, Henne, Breaston, and Longs careers, that was all Terry Malone. Deboard left after the 2001 season to coach at CMU, then came back for the 2006 season after it was obvious Malone couldn't manage a offense where the starting RB and half the offensive line was injured almost the entire season in 2005. If you ask me, Malone got a raw deal.
is tied up with the LLoyd philosophy of tell em what your going to do and then out execute them, and then go absolutely into a shell in the 4th quarter if you are leading.
The switch to the zone stretch, while it had some initial success, stalled when teams figured out that by slanting hard to the play side they could blow up most plays (Hart mitigated some of that with his ability to turn negative into positive). I think he will be most remembered for the run, run, pass 3 yards short of the sticks, punt philosophy that seemed all too common when M had fourth quarter leads. He only seemed to open things up only when M trailing.
Yes, crappy crappy nepotastic O-line coaching, and yes injuries to Henne and Hart and Long at various times limited the offensive execution, but the criticism of the unwillingness to adapt and to use deception at all, especially after we saw what he was capable of doing most notably against OSU in 2006 and Florida in the curtain call, heightens the frustration. Its not that he was clueless, its that he squandered a lot of talent. That is why so many were so jazzed for the RR era to begin. His WV teams stepped on the throats of opponents and did not sit back with leads.
So, yes the things you point out about blame laying elsewhere, and the successes that Debord had are undeniable, you cannot look at those in isolation.
Where Mike Hart was banged up from the previous week (where he only played about half the game), and Henne got injured before halftime (when we were still close)? People whine about that game incessantly on this board, but if we had been healthy, and not recovering from the worst week Michigan Football was ever subjected to, that was looking to be a shootout game, much like the Florida game. While the defense wasn't good, that was also probably the best team in the country, and was going to play for the National Title if their shoulda-won-the-Heisman QB hadn't gotten hurt.
You second point I agree with much more. I always liked Malone as coordinator, liked his offenses. When the great MUST MAKE CHANGES happened, the defense had been lackluster for awhile...the offense looked bad for one season after the worst string of O-line injuries I have ever seen. Beyond just offense, I think it screwed us in that Malone was probably the best candidate on staff to groom for the head job. Coordinator, been around awhile, a few more years at the right hand side, and we probably could have transitioned to him. Because as much as Lloyd may or may not have wanted it, DeBord was NEVER going to happen. And didn't. (English might have had a shot if Lloyd had coached 3-4 more years; but we might not have been good enough for him to have a shot if Lloyd had coached that long beyond his interest point, because we would have been bad because of it). But hey, Terry got a Super Bowl ring out of it, so, no tears.
"People whine about that game incessantly on this board, but if we had been healthy, and not recovering from the worst week Michigan Football was ever subjected to, that was looking to be a shootout game, much like the Florida game.'
I believe we had 7 points at halftime. At no point did that look like a shootout.
My original point on "if we had been healthy" wasn't really contradicted by our offensive output at the half because we weren't healthy going into the game *Hart was hurt game one, and not healthy till the bowl)....but looking back, they scored a lot more in the first half than I remembered. We'd have had to come out smoking, which wasn't going to happen. I'll mea culpa that....must have blacked most of it out...
You make a few good points, but damn it was annoying watching us go "three and out" so many damn times his second time around. I felt like the defernse never had a chance to rest. At least that's the way it felt and how my fuzzy memory feels about it. Thank God for fuzzy memory, because I can't even remember Terry Malone's name until someone brings it up.
No disrespect, but this is a terrible thread. Haven't we been through enough?
...has there ever been one recruit at Michigan who has been a game changer? Unless things have changed, isn't football a TEAM sport? Clear Eyes, Full Heart.
Justin King could have potentially changed the course of UM history. He put the locks down on Ginn in the 06 OSU/PSU game. If he had come to Michigan and played opposite Leon Hall, and been there to matchup with Ginn in the 06 game instead of Trent...
That's actually a really depressing "what if."
but if lloyd just takes ginn in spite of his camp performance, we wouldn't have had to deal with him. if you remember he had that PR for TD in '04 as well.
both of those guys wanted to come to UM and we flat out messed up in both cases.
Add future Glenville recruits to the Ginn situation and that is one huge mistake.
On the flip side, Mario lighted him up like a Christmas tree in 2005...we probably wouldn't have won that game without Justin King (playing for PSU)
So someone better than King would have been on Mario then? Its not like King had bad coverage on Mario on the one long td, it was just a perfectly thrown ball and route. King probably would have helped us greatly vs OSU in 2005 too, you think OSU marches down the field as easily vs our defense 2 straight times with King on Santonio or Ginn.
what job would have lloyd given king's daddy??? :)
he never ended up getting the job
Would have helped.
Greg Jones.
Did we even offer him? seems like he was a 3* sleeper according to rivals. His offers were from: State, Minessota, Cincinnati, Air Force and a couple of MAC schools.
He was extremely interested in Michigan, to say the least.
was committed to Minnesota until the Geauxfurs fired Glen Mason.
ROAR FIGHT WIN.
Nope, old UM staff didn't like him. He would've committed on the spot if they had offered. He's the type of "sleeper" recruit our current staff loves. He's undersized, but he's just a "football player."
Chris Graham didn't start in 2006. It was Crable, Harris and Burgess.
And Joe Haden, would have loved either.
Taylor Mays would have filled a huge void at the safety spot and made our corners better simply because he would have been roaming the D backfield.
Granted he got a little lazy late in his careeer what he would have brought to the table in terms of talent and intimidation would have been greatly welcomed.
Recruiting wise as well big time safeties would have probably wanted to be the next Taylor Mays at Michigan.
Tim Tebow. We would have hit the ground running in 2008.
kind of... Lloyd wouldn't have left with Tebow as a Junior.
He almost left with Chad, Jake, and Mike as Seniors.
Tebow would have just been the back-up. It would have kept Ryan Mallett away...but he's not really helping us a lot right now anyway...
Terrelle Pryor. Most devastating "miss" in the program's history. I put miss in quotation marks because we never really had a shot at him. But if he had committed to Michigan it would have changed the course of history.
...I think I must admit that subtracting Terrelle from OSU, and adding him to UM, probably would have caused a pretty big shift in outcomes. In fact, probably bigger than any other recruit.
RoJo.
before signing with LSU. He was an integral part of the dominating LSU defense in 2003, the year they won the first NC for Nick Satan. If he had committed to Michigan, he might have made the difference in close losses during the regular season to Iowa and Oregon, and he would have enabled us to put more pressure on Matt Leinart in the Rose Bowl after that season.
Marquise Hill admitted after the fact that he never really had any interest in Michigan...just kept up the charade to mess with people because he thought it was fun. Not a Michigan Man.
Would look awfully good on the D line right about now.
Not a lost recruit, but I just wish that Antonio Bass never had his injury. The transition would have been much easier.
This: More true than most realize. Wow, it would have been nice to have him playing QB in 2008.
Antonio Bass is the man. Sad injury, he could have been a great QB for us earlier in the process.
The Daily had an article about him earlier this year. I think he went on to graduate from LSA.
Curse all renegade knees, all of them.
Bass would've been a monster.