"Those guys got some guys" -- Ferentz
Ferentz spent a lot of time complaining about the calls, but he gives repeated compliments to JJ, Corum, and pretty much everyone else. If you have 15 minutes to kill, listen to our guys being discussed by an opponent coach:
October 4th, 2022 at 12:55 PM ^
That was obvious to me as well, we got some VERY GOOD PIECES. Looking forward to JJ getting better, look forward to Blake doing Blake things, the receivers, the secondary, the O-line, the D-line - We got very good pieces.
October 4th, 2022 at 1:01 PM ^
It seems as though Harbaugh has the football equivalent (to chess) of multiple pieces wherever they are required. The roster appears to have the depth necessary to be effective in conference play. It has taken a while to recruit and develop this depth - but, that's probably more of a statement about recruiting - Michigan not being able to "camp" in certain parts of the country - and, how much the NCAA seems to capitulate to the SEC and ACC.
Wishing all young men on the roster continued success on and off the field.
"Practice does not make perfect - only perfect practice makes perfect." Vincent Thomas Lombardi
October 4th, 2022 at 1:10 PM ^
> that's probably more of a statement about recruiting - Michigan not being able to "camp" in certain parts of the country - and, how much the NCAA seems to capitulate to the SEC and ACC.
that's an awful lot of whinging & excuse-making when Ohio State & other schools not located in the South are able to put together competitive rosters. Harbaugh's roster is great but we don't need to play this "it's just harder for us" self-pity card.
October 4th, 2022 at 1:28 PM ^
plus I think this diary post shows that we have a fair # of guys on the roster from SEC/ACC land
October 4th, 2022 at 1:33 PM ^
Well, objectively speaking it is harder for the average Northern school to put together a talented roster than a Southern school. Fortunately we're not an average school.
The bigger issue depth-wise under Harbaugh was that the 2014 and '15 recruiting classes were small and not that talented. Harbaugh inherited a lot of good upperclassmen from Hoke, but when those guys graduated, we had to go through a couple of years with iffy depth before those small classes cycled out.
October 4th, 2022 at 1:44 PM ^
I don't think you are speaking objectively. I think you are speaking with a bias, as it would depend on how you want to measure.
For instance, if you rank colleges by which schools have the most players on an NFL roster, the top ten consists of Iowa, Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Notre Dame, and Oklahoma. None of those schools seem to have trouble compiling a talented roster & churning out NFL talent despite not being located in the South. If you're looking at the 24/7 talent composite that may paint a different picture, but neither is a definitive and final word.
Again this reeks of self-pity and how things are just harder for us, which is kind of a pathetic narrative to try and build for one of the largest money programs in college football.
October 4th, 2022 at 2:07 PM ^
As I said, it's harder for the average Northern school to recruit elite talent - but we aren't average. OSU, PSU and ND aren't either. Those are the four Northern schools that do recruit at a high level. (I don't think many people consider Oklahoma to be in the North. It's next to Texas!)
If Iowa's up there at producing NFL guys, that's a testament to their player development.
October 4th, 2022 at 2:35 PM ^
We aren't talking about recruiting. We are talking about putting together a roster, which would be inclusive of player development. Recruiting & building a roster aren't the same thing and I think that's evidenced by schools like Miami, LSU, and Texas A&M being ahead of Michigan on the composite. (FYI, I included Oklahoma because they aren't in the South).
October 4th, 2022 at 2:33 PM ^
Wisconsin is also high on the list. They, and Iowa, are examples of great scouting and developing of talent. Michigan is equal parts decent recruiting and great scouting and development.
October 4th, 2022 at 1:49 PM ^
i think the biggest issue under harbaugh's tenure has been QBs. plain and simple. he would be 3-3 against osu with good QB play and/or fair officiating.
October 4th, 2022 at 1:51 PM ^
Stevie, (this has been revised to include the Texas schools and Oklahoma)
Respectfully, which schools that are not in the south - are effective recruiters in that part of the country? The NCAA's decision, IMO, has made it more difficult for teams to recruit in the footprint of the SEC and ACC.
One advantage the Bucks have had is - about a ten year hiatus of Michigan recruiting certain parts of the country during the RR and Hoke tenures.
For the purpose of this example, I'll say the area defining "the south" - is from Oklahoma / Texas to the Atlantic Ocean - and, from The Kentucky border with Ohio - on a rough line from west to east.
According to 247 Team Talent Composite - these are the Top Fifteen teams - who are outside the above mentioned footprint. This goes back as far as I could go with 247's Team Talent Composite - and, the composition is pretty consistent year to year.
2022 - the Bucks, A&M, Texas, Oregon, Oklahoma, USC, Notre Dame, Michigan, and Penn State
2021 - the Bucks, Oklahoma, A&M, Oregon, USC, Texas, Notre Dame, and Michigan
2020 - the Bucks, Texas, Notre Dame, USC, Oklahoma, Oregon, A&M, band Penn State
2019 - the Bucks, USC, Texas, Oklahoma, Penn State, Michigan, A&M, and Notre Dame
2018 - the Bucks, USC, Michigan, Texas, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, and Penn State
2017 - the Bucks, USC, Michigan, Notre Dame, UCLA, Texas, Stanford, and A&M
2016 - USC, the Bucks, Michigan, Notre Dame, Texas, UCLA, and A&M
2015 - USC, the Bucks, Notre Dame, Michigan, A&M, Texas, and UCLA
And, I'm not playing a "pity" card. I am playing the NCAA capitulates to the SEC card - which is ridiculous. Emmert has essentially destroyed any standards and consistent enforcement of rules - turning an arbitrary NCAA into a toothless one.
October 4th, 2022 at 2:44 PM ^
A few points here I will rehash as I posted them farther up:
1) Oklahoma & Texas are not in the South & I think it is disingenous to incllude them as being in the South. Usually when we talk about "the South" it is in a recruiting context where you see states in the 'Deep South' producing a disproportional amount of raw talent compared with other states. Oklahoma & Oklahoma State do not have the same advantages as say Mississippi or LSU who are able to recruit the best raw talent from their own backyard.
2) Building a roster & recruiting are not the same thing. This is evidenced by a variety of factors, namely the continued success of many programs such as Wisconsin, Oklahoma State, Michigan and others who are able to build a top college football roster year in & year out despite not raking in top 10 classes. There are of course other examples such as USC & Oregon who are able to recruit very well outside the footprint of the South.
3) I don't really see the "NCAA capitulating to the SEC" to be a real thing. There is the one example you mentioned about not allowing the regional camps, but I don't think there is much evidence that the NCAA's decision there did much to effect recruiting or Michigan's roster building. If anything, Michigan has built stronger rosters since that decision than we were building before.
October 4th, 2022 at 4:10 PM ^
Stevie,
Fair points about the boundaries - and, I modified my original response - which used 247's Team Talent Composite to include the Texas and Oklahoma schools.
Building a roster and recruiting are not the same thing. I completely agree. And, IMO, to the credit of Michigan's coaching staff - and - the players on the roster - they have achieved their success through dedication, effort, scheme, and quality of execution. This being said - the teams have been at a relative disadvantage, again - IMO, because the level / depth of talent - is not as deep as other schools - which are in that "South" footprint - and the Bucks.
The staff, IMO, recruits talented young men - with the potential - character - and commitment to fit the program - its goals - and, its objectives. I view the goal is to win B1G conference championships and to compete for national championships.
So - how did Michigan win the B1G - and reach the CFP? Hard work. Good coaching. Smart play calling. Solid in-game execution. The issue - and my point - is - those goals might have been achieved several years earlier.
I don't wish to be argumentative. But, regarding the NCAA - and decisions they made - I'll share another data point. Justin Fields -remember him - he was allowed to transfer with immediate eligibility - from Georgia to Ohio State. Part of the rationale was the "toxic and threatening" nature of the campus environment in Athens. So, you could infer - that Justin's personal safety was at risk. Do you know that Justin Fields sister was also enrolled at Georgia at this time - and, apparently, she was able to thrive, or at least manage this "toxic and threatening" environment. The NCAA under Emmert was abysmal at doing anything - especially enforcement.
Go Blue.
October 4th, 2022 at 3:59 PM ^
I agree, it's fair to acknowledge the recent unfair recruiting advantages in the SEC. For its entire history Alabama football, for example, was on probation or actual punishment for NCAA violations. Until Saban and Sankey showed up. Since then, there was no hint of enforcement, and Alabama and other SEC schools exploded. It wasn't a coincidence.
A recalibration of the value of cheating in the era of NIL seems to already be reducing that advantage, and Emmert's position is now more formally meaningless than before, when it was a sham cloaked in formalities.
October 5th, 2022 at 9:15 AM ^
This subthread was some fine back and forth. The board! Thanks.
October 4th, 2022 at 3:08 PM ^
Multiple pieces everywhere except LB. The biggest weakness by far on the team. Really need NHG back.
October 5th, 2022 at 9:12 AM ^
NHG and Rolder development as well as Okie are where we bowl in Columbus. I am beginning to see a path.
October 4th, 2022 at 1:15 PM ^
As much as I love the skill players and OL, Schoonmaker is the glue out there. Aside from being a top receiving option, it seems like Schoon is sealing a defender or leading the convoy on most big runs.
October 4th, 2022 at 1:24 PM ^
It is a shame we don't have All this year. Those two could be crushing fools all over the field.
October 4th, 2022 at 1:51 PM ^
Those two together would have eclipsed the kaiju TE-apolooza we had back in 2016 for both the blocky-catchy things! Can you imagine LB's looking at All at one end and Schoon on the other side - wondering what they might do? They could both destroy LBs or run a damn good route, catching passes like WRs.
I mean, All crashing the hole created by Olu and Zinter to find a LB, and Schoon coming through after All to clean up whatever is left. You've already delivered Corum to the safety - and we're tenting our fingers and cackling with crazed glee...
Ahem... ::shakes head:: Okay, back to reality now...
October 4th, 2022 at 1:34 PM ^
When did Schoonmaker stop being a Skill Position Player, or part of the OL, for that matter? The way tight ends are used in our offense, you need to have both types of talents. I love his growth this year, too. But the truth of the matter is that the position is what brought opportunity to All, then Schoonmaker, not the other way around.
October 4th, 2022 at 1:56 PM ^
Just gonna disagree here... A position does not make a player - the player uses his abilities to perform the position. The fact that both All and Schoonmaker play the TE position in a manner pretty similar to Rob Gronkowski is a function of their physical (and mental) ability to perform such feats. If they couldn't run routes so well, we wouldn't see them downfield (ergo: Honigford). Conversely, if they couldn't block so well they'd be asked to perform the bare minimum in blocking assignments (see: Butt, Jake).
October 4th, 2022 at 1:50 PM ^
i would have never predicted that for him. big props.
October 4th, 2022 at 1:03 PM ^
Ferentz spent a lot of time complaining about the calls
It kind of felt like the refs were overcorrecting for the MD game...
October 4th, 2022 at 1:13 PM ^
Yeah, and immediately after Iowa got called for a defensive penalty (good call) they got away with a PI when a DB arrived WAY too early and a hold in the endzone that broke up a pass, those missed calls at the end of the field killed a Michigan drive and probably cost M 4 points.
I haven't watched any of the other Iowa games but if their philosophy has become "cheat on every play and they wont call all of them" then at some point the flood games are going to open, like they did for our man defense committing holding and pass-interference a few years back.
Ferentz can bitch all he wants but there was a lot they got away with, a lot of holding (o and d) and a lot of DPI.
October 4th, 2022 at 2:25 PM ^
Iowa did get 2-3 questionable calls, but every game there's one team that gets more questionable calls than the other, and those calls wouldn't have changed the result in this game.
October 4th, 2022 at 3:25 PM ^
There was exactly one call in the game that was objectively terrible, and it was the Iowa clipping call. They have every right to bitch about that one.
But everything else was either obvious or questionable at worst. And both teams had roughly equal questionable calls/no calls.
October 4th, 2022 at 4:31 PM ^
These sorts of comments kill me. Even when we get a game where the calls actually go our way -- some people will insist that they didn't actually go our way, and we actually got screwed as much as ever.
Awesome. It must be so much fun to be a referee.
October 4th, 2022 at 5:49 PM ^
Yeah, I didn't say anything like that in my comment.
October 4th, 2022 at 4:03 PM ^
My tin foil hat theory is that JH sent in a lengthy tape last week of the several missed call from the Maryland (a team that led the FBS in penalties, yet only got 1 False Start called) and the results were a game that was called more closely to the actual rules. With a few exceptions....
October 4th, 2022 at 4:05 PM ^
Michigan should apologize to no one even if we get a blatant biased whistle in our favor here and there. We have been so thoroughly fucked over the past 10 years, particularly in early Harbaugh, that we are cosmically owed far more than any one game can deliver us.
October 4th, 2022 at 5:09 PM ^
No one said apologize but maybe not act as if we get screwed when the calls are relatively even or favorable.
October 4th, 2022 at 1:03 PM ^
I think Ferentz has point in complaining about the unnecessary roughness call for the late slam on Mike Sanristil. I'm reminded of Stephen Spanellis removing a Notre Dame defender into the sideline in the 2019 rain game. Spam's block was longer and more gratuitous in a game that was long-decided. I always like to see players, especially offensive linemen, playing from whistle to whistle.
It was #2 in Seth's "Blocks of the Decade" list: https://mgoblog.com/content/decade-best-blocks
BTW, I only had 10 minutes to kill so I watched at 1.5x speed, which makes it seem like Coach Ferentz has a pulse.
October 4th, 2022 at 1:18 PM ^
For some reason I missed that post. Weird. Thanks for linking that!
October 4th, 2022 at 1:29 PM ^
There was extensive discussion about this at the time, and the consensus was that it was legal as long as the player was engaged the entire time. On the podcast, they suggested that the blocker didn't engage with Mike until the ball had already been released and then ignored the referee's instructions to stop. If that's the case, then the penalty is probably justified. Live, in the stadium, I agreed with the Iowa fans, and I wasn't even mad when Iowa picked up the 3rd and 22 because it felt like justice.
October 4th, 2022 at 4:14 PM ^
The late engagement -- maybe. Still, I remember being told that standing around looking at a play is a good way to get clocked.
Serious question here - before listening to the podcast, I've never heard of a ref giving verbal instructions in the middle of a play. I've heard a lot of yelling in the middle of a play from fans, coaches, and players, but I thought the only official communication during a play is the whistle.
October 4th, 2022 at 5:21 PM ^
In basketball, where you can frequently hear the refs, they talk to the players and give warnings. I assumed it happens in football too.
October 4th, 2022 at 3:27 PM ^
I dunno...I think you're asking for trouble if you're literally slamming a guy half your size into the ground with your full body weight 20 yards away from the play. That's not just "blocking".
October 4th, 2022 at 6:03 PM ^
He wrapped his arms around him and tackled him.
That's not a block.
October 4th, 2022 at 6:06 PM ^
1) #2 on that list should have absolutely been a penalty
2) Iowa player got called because he literally wrapped his arms around Sainristil and tackled him like he was a ball carrier, you cant do that.
October 4th, 2022 at 1:04 PM ^
I mentioned this in one frame at a time, but I think in 15 years we'll be talking about Corum like we talk about Hart now. We'll see a speedy bruiser kid and think "he's Blake Corum but tall."
October 4th, 2022 at 1:24 PM ^
I think in the future, Corum gets the "he's the next MJ" line.
October 4th, 2022 at 1:05 PM ^
I'm a dude
He's a dude
She's a dude
We're all dudes
October 4th, 2022 at 1:07 PM ^
Dudeness is as dudeness does.
October 4th, 2022 at 1:54 PM ^
Or El Duderino, if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
October 4th, 2022 at 2:06 PM ^
+1 for Good Burger reference (Ed)
October 4th, 2022 at 3:26 PM ^
There's only one Dude.
October 4th, 2022 at 4:17 PM ^
Two.
October 4th, 2022 at 1:08 PM ^
He's right. We do got some guys
October 4th, 2022 at 1:09 PM ^
Guys>Weird Guys