Substituting to slow down late half drive?
I am curious to see if Seth notices this in the UFR, but I felt like I noticed Michigan making what appeared to be superficial substitutions to slow down Rutgers' attempt at a late second quarter drive last week. As I understand the rules, if the offense subs, one of the referees comes in and doesn't allow the ball to be snapped until the defense has a chance to respond. I'm not sure if there's a limit on how long the defense gets or if that is just a judgement call by the ref.
For instance, one one play Rutgers subbed and then Michigan sent in DJ Turner to sub in for Vincent Gray, all the way over by the Rutgers sideline. Gray didn't seem to be hurt and it didn't look like the defensive formation changed, so on the surface it doesn't feel like there's any strategic need to switch out CBs other than to milk the 10 seconds off the clock that it takes to do that.
For those that notice or coach, is this a real thing or was I imagining it?
September 28th, 2021 at 11:42 AM ^
Not sure what benefit you would get from rushing a player on the field at the last moment? I hear what you are saying, but last sec defensive replacements would put you more at a disadvantage than an advantage.
September 28th, 2021 at 11:51 AM ^
benefit seems pretty clear to me, you can waste important time from the clock.
September 28th, 2021 at 2:08 PM ^
And give a D that’s been through 3-4 3 and outs and other 5-10 seconds of rest
and get a few more seconds to confirm the play/ make sure the players know it
September 28th, 2021 at 6:35 PM ^
He said it was at the end of the first half
September 28th, 2021 at 11:43 AM ^
Hmm, if it was real I doubt our coaches would be smart enough to plan this. Probably coincidental.
September 28th, 2021 at 11:43 AM ^
it can be, but rutgers could easily combat that by not subbing.
September 28th, 2021 at 12:01 PM ^
Then they are stuck with the current personnel on the field which could limit the plays the coaches want to run.
September 28th, 2021 at 12:05 PM ^
yes, but if in this example the time is running out.. subbing aint easy
September 28th, 2021 at 6:36 PM ^
Subbin' is racin'. Am I doing this right?
September 28th, 2021 at 11:44 AM ^
I just thought they were confused at times. But I like your explanation and point of view better than mine, so let’s go with that.
September 28th, 2021 at 11:48 AM ^
I dont want to start a thread, but as a semi-related tactical question..
1. I have noticed every week the defensive lineman (aiden specifically) are throwing their hands up to the sideline, seemingly asking what defensive alignment they should be in etc... and sometimes it goes all the way to the snap. This has been a Michigan hallmark for years as we are seemingly never ready for offenses that move faster than a sloth. Why is this still a problem?
2. I noticed that DLman are constantly shuffling around, sometimes even as the snap is happening, basiclaly taking themselves out of a play because theyre running parallel to the LOS. Why? I'm not an X's and O's football person, so I'm trying to understand. I kinda get why you might move an elite pass rusher around, just to challenge the weak links on the OL. But on the interior, why are we constantly playing musical chairs? The Rutgers OL is set, right? So where's the issue? Just alignment of the RBs and TEs? Why don't we have those guys in the middle ready to go? Just trying to understand what tactical advantage theyre geting by switching places on the interior of the DL
September 28th, 2021 at 12:36 PM ^
1) MacDonald uses a LOT of different formations, line sets, and personnel groupings in his defense, as you seem to have noticed. Also, it isn't unusual for the D to adjust based on what the offense is doing (formations, personnel, tendencies) - and this isn't limited to tempo offenses. Tempo gets you got because you don't have time to see what the O is up to before the snap, the whole point is to get you out of position.
2) This answer would be best left to an entire Neck Sharpies from Seth (in fact, he's done several of them discussing DL positioning and adjustments). They're trying to get better leverage to blow up various blocking techniques they think are coming, to plug gaps, or to negate some perceived OL offensive advantage. Sometimes, they just plain realize they're in the wrong spot! I suggest you search the Neck Sharpies - Seth will make you coach-like in your gained knowledge of defensive philosophies!
Try to remember that the defense we have was expected to be the weak link for the team. Yet, they've given up all of 47 points over 4 games!! They're playing really good - good enough that the offense should be able to win a few games... I mean, they can score more than 11 points/game, right?
September 28th, 2021 at 12:44 PM ^
Yup. makes sense on all. My main focus was on #2. Not meant to criticize - i just dont get the reasoning.
And, as you said, the offense was supposed to carry the team a bit this year, and the defense has made the plays so far.
Will we score more than 11/game for the 3 game set against MSU, PSU, and Wisky? I hope so, but i see no guarantee.
September 28th, 2021 at 6:38 PM ^
Seth said they were trying to keep Aidan on the strongside of the formation for obvious reasons. So if the TEs flip then Michigan wants to also. Also worth noting Rutgers did that on purpose. So, sure, a defense not moving around may look more organized, but that doesn't mean they're in a better position to stop the offense.
September 28th, 2021 at 12:58 PM ^
Because the front 7 (and nickel back) switch sides based on the strong/weak side of the formation and where the ball is spotted. Agree it's frustrating and can guarantee other teams have noticed and will try to burn us on that at some point with some bursts of tempo.
I guess I havent paid enough attention to notice if the CBs and Safeties switch too in this defense, but it's not uncommon to have a "boundary" corner and a "field" corner along with a strong and free safety. Some defenses just stick to left and right for their DBs.
September 28th, 2021 at 11:50 AM ^
smart move if it were on purpose.
September 28th, 2021 at 12:55 PM ^
I definitely think that at times it was intentional, for two reasons. 1) To drain some clock 2) to break momentum/give the other 10 defenders on the field a chance to catch their breath.
But I think as one of the other comments points out - sometimes there's just plain confusion and we don't seem to know where to line up or what the defensive play call is.
September 28th, 2021 at 2:29 PM ^
I noticed this too, and I definitely thought it was intentional. The hurry-up is a really powerful strategy, but it can't really be used if you're substituting. You have to give the defense time to substitute as well. That doesn't just run time off the clock; it also breaks momentum and gives the defensive players who stay on the field a longer time to get ready for the next play. It felt like Michigan was taking advantage of this, which was a smart play.
September 28th, 2021 at 5:24 PM ^
I noticed it when Michigan was on offense too. Cade looked annoyed at the ref at one point for holding him off until the play clock was low. I think this ref crew was just a little more aggressive about it.
September 28th, 2021 at 8:22 PM ^
I remember the play you're talking about...
I feel like it was a "and short" situation where we did the same thing we did in the first game. We subbed in Haskins and our power personnel and then they immediately brought in 2 DL. Just like Washington did when they stopped us.
September 28th, 2021 at 8:17 PM ^
This is absolutely a way to slow teams down, good coaches use it. It has nothing to do with the guy coming off the field needing to be subbed and everything to do with giving your defense more time to rest and can also help get a play call in. Notice how most people on here are unfamiliar with the concept, it’s been around for a while, someone should forward this thread to Don Brown.