This will be your thread this afternoon and evening to discuss the defense and the defensive playcalling.
The Snowflake Thread: Defense
Honestly, defense was terrible other than some invidiaul plays by Ryan, Gedeon and Countess. Furman being out there didn't help anything, but I doubt Wilson would have made that much of a difference.
Ohio State has a great offense and they destroyed us.
Good thing we're recruiting tons of safeties. Oh we told Montae Nicholson we don't need safeties? Jabril Peppers taking visits? That's okay because we have Josh Furman aka Deon Sanders 2.0. Other than that complaint, hats off to our team for a good game.
Has gotten a pass all season. Unfortunate day for them to play terribly
Furman was horrible
The two long TDs today were on our backup safeties. I saw in the Liveblog that Wilson had a cast on his arm...any info on this?
Big time. That and those two bad calls against us were the difference in the game.
Both were hurt. Brian tweeted seeing Wilson in a huge cast on his hand.
Not physical enough to stop Hyde or Miller. Missed PeeWee today.
We missed Pipkins alot today.
Mattison needs to rethink the whole "how to defend the spread" thing, but we really, really missed Ross.
Josh Furman has room for improvement.
Today of all days the D had to show up and couldn't. Not sure what happened to the unit that dominated in 2011 but I get the feeling that our weak DL is really the big problem here. No pressure up front means you get exposed everywhere.
When you are allowed to hold at the point of attack, your DL will look even worse.
Ben Gedeon showed some flashed of his raw talent in some early season cameos. This game, he was making some great plays and looked like he belonged out there. I think we have a winner with this kid, sports fans.
They got ripped at pretty much every position group: line, linebackers, and secondary. It's too bad, but that's what happens against a great offense.
Defense was a real let down- and people can't blame Borges this time for keeping the D on the field too long and tiring them out- OSU rolled up yards and point early. The differences between Mattison and Borges are not that great. Borges almost saved the game today- firing him is not going to transform this team.
I'm not sure if their O-line is really good or our D-line is really poor, or a little of both. But, we clearly lacked playmakers on defense this game. The two best athletes on the field were Miller and Hyde. I'm certainly glad OSU graduates 4 offensive lineman and Hyde. This is why we need some elite guys like Hand. I'm still hopeful for McDowell and that Charlton, Wormley, and Ojemudia develop. Gedeon looked good too and Bolden didn't play too bad. Although I don't recall Gedeon much in the second half. But, we got dominated by their rushing offense. Time after time Hyde and Miller broke free. And, when comparing tackling we had to gang tackle both of them to get them down. Meanwhile a single OSU defender seemed to be able to take down our guys when we had the ball. Despite all our focus on physicality there is still a clear difference in talent, physicality, experience...whatever it is that causes them to be win matchups and us to lose.
The future is bright, part N: with Pipkins back and Hurst off his redshirt (in addition to Strobel and Poggi--plus another year on Wormley), we will have more big bodies to replace Washington. Obvs we lose Black too, but I'm talking big run stoppers.
With that logic it goes both ways. Urban should do well because he knows Mattisons defense
Thank you, Devin! Not perfect but that was a damn gritty performance!!!!
Mattison is a great recruiter, by all accounts, but there is a reason he was available to us from the Ravens.
Really missed Ross and Willie Henry's going to need to learn technique to beat the kind of talent they've got at Ohio State. He had a rough day, in particular. At least I think. Hard to say considering the comprehensive beatdown they handed our line.
That offense is just generally terrifying though. Bad performance, but not the end of the world.
It's difficult to watch one of the best rushing defenses in FBS allow 393 yards of rushing, but Braxton Miller and Carlos Hyde have made many a defense look rather lost throughout their time at Ohio State. Of course, Ohio State is the #5 rushing offense in the country - I don't think we've faced anyone quite that good on the ground this season.
Statistically, it was not the best performance by any stretch - we allowed 8.62 yards per snap. Really liked what Gedeon was doing out there, and there was some good play by Ryan, Countess and a couple others. Adopt, adapt and improve, I suppose. Still hard to be mad about anything in this game.
I will be curious to see how OSU's rush offense matches up against MSU's rush defense. I agree that Gedeon looked good. Although I don't recall seeing him much in the second half. It is nice to have Ryan back and some pretty good LB depth next year. I am a little nervous about our interior d-line next year though. Hopefully Henry continues to develop, Pipkins recovers, and one of the younger guys can step, or even McDowell (if he commits) can contribute.
On a side note, what the heck is going on with Wilson? He's clearly better than Furman and didn't see the field today. Safety is another position that concerns me. Peppers may be needed there...if we can hold onto him.
adjusted for strength of schedule? because we seemed pretty mediocre all year in a mediocre conference.
had a tough day. Thought the corners played well. And we played with 6 in the box all day, I couldn't understand it. I get that if you put 7 and they are spread out, it opens up the pass, but can't let them get 7 yards every play on first down. Make braxton beat you with his arm- I don't think he would have
Yes excuses but we are young at LB, lacking skills in the DB backfield outside of countess and Braxton and Hyde were the best duo they've seen. If they were not undefeated with them I would've been surprised. We are young and not talented when it comes to upperclassmen, do you see any future pros beyond Clark from the upperclassmen on defense? This was a good lesson, Hyde and miller will be gone and I want to see what Urban can do with guys Tressell didn't give him. That's a high paid duo they have there.
Yeah, I will be curious how we play OSU next year in Columbus. OSU will have a very strong D-line, but I think Shazier and Roby go pro, and they graduate their two safeties. So, they will be young in the back group. Offensively they graduate 4 offensive lineman and Hyde. They will still have Miller's playmaking. But, I will be curious how our defensive line matches up against a bunch 2nd and 3rd year guys. Their offensive line next year will be pretty similar to ours. They will have 2 true Jrs, 2 RS Sophs, and one RS Sr. If we can't make plays with our defensive line play next year, then there's something wrong. I think we really have a solid shot at winning in Columbus.
As they were rolling up 8 YPC and gashing us to death, why did we not load the box with 8, hell even put 9 in the box. We were letting guys run wide open over the top anyway and that was with our safeties 20 yards downfield! I know they are good, real good but I don't understand how we at least didn't adjust during the game.
in the box most of the game. Ohio had 5 lineman, Hyde and Braxton so 6 on 7. Lineman would double the point of attack and be guaranteed 5 yards before contact. Safeties made most of the tackles anyways so roll them down and make Braxton throw it
The defense isn't any better than it was in 2010! /s if it wasn't obvious
People forget that Michigan is a very young team on defense, too. It's not just starters, but when backups are pressed to play, it's really nice to have some juniors and seniors to fill the gaps instead of freshmen and sophs. Michigan is experiencing growing pains, but the future looks bright.
Frosh and sophs all over the front 7 vs senior OL and sr Hyde just not a good match-up.
We clearly have to get bigger and stronger, especially the DTs and ILBs. Hopefully our big youngsters will turn into bigger men.
We still lack playmakers on D. Peppers will certainly be one if we can hold onto him. Same could be said for McDowell if we can land him. Ryan is another. Pipkins and Ross have the pedigree and experience to develop into them next year. Younger guys like Thomas, McCray, and Charlton have the pedigree as well but still need time to develop. They won't be playmakers next year. Gedeon is showing promise. I'm hopeful those 3rd year guys like Wormley, Ojemudia, and Henry take a big step next year. But, we lack those elite playmaker guys. Missing out on Hand really hurt.
will allow us to control the LOS, but an elite D needs playmakers. We need someone opposite Jake to create pressure and we need some athletes who create big plays. Our CBs cannot lockdown and our safety play is below average. Still believe Lewis and Stribling can be very good, but we need guys like Peppers and Malik to generate mismatches and big plays.
Not your best game defense. Missing a lot of our guys though. Ohio has a great offense. Not much we could do. Thought it was overrated all year anyway. We'll improve as our studs get older
Pretty pathetic effort by the defense today. Not surprising, though. I predicted 49 for OSU, but the Hyde fumble stifled that drive. We haven't had to play a good offense all year, except Indiana.
Did OSU pass in the second half? They broadcast run on every play and still got about 10 yards per carry. Pretty demoralizing, a la Wisconsin 2010. I'm not as sure about the strength of our defense as others. We'll see how things shape up next year. Luckily, there really aren't any good offenses in the Big Ten, outside of OSU and maybe Indiana.
I remember them hitting the TE up the seam for about a 25 yard TD, other than that I don't remember any others. Did they even have a 3rd down on their last scoring drive? Really demoralizing when you know they are running and can't do anything about it.
Two on their first possession and then again on the TD to the TE.
Not that it is a good strategy but ,by having OSU score quickly on their last TD drive it gave our offense time to almost win.
Fire Brady Hoke! Fire Al Borges! Fire Gerg Mattison! Fire Funk! Fire Jackson! Fire Brandon! Fire MS Coleman! Fire Jon Falk! Wait, can we fire the last two, I think they are retiring? That takes care of the fire, who's gonna get pitchforked? All sarcasm aside, that was one helluva effort. I'm proud of you boys. GO BLUE!
The defense wasn't stellar, but executed reasonably well. Their failures are really the known chinks in our armor. The weak defensive line and the poor safeties. Better personel is part of fixing the problem, but the scheme seemed sound. The other frustrating part for me was poor open field tackling and defenders taking bad angles.
As poorly as they played and as much of a defensive guy as I am, I'm not as upset as usual. Mattison was poor, again, I thought, by not making the obviously inaccurate (on the day) Miller beat them with his arm. Letting Hyde pound them over and over was and is madness. Back up saftey or not. If you're worried about getting beat deep, put Dymonte in and tell him not to let anyone behind him. Honestly would'nt have been any worse than Avery/Furman.
I respectfully disagree that Mattison was poor...the times Mattison did force Miller to throw, our secondary held up fine (despite the couple blown safety plays) and it was the defensive line that blew contain on Miller.
We may have won. I don't think we have a great defense and the way OSU dominated the LOS just proved that. We have a lot of young players. I hope the DLINE can add more wieght and strength in the off season. OSU got lineman out on or LBs. That should never happen!
Miller and Hyde are elite players and today it showed why. Now, that being said, we should have slowed them down a little - just a little - maybe a speed bump or two. Outside of Hyde's fumble, we didn't come close to containing their O.
The safety play was pretty bad. Avery and Furman got beat deep badly a few times or whiffed on open field tackles. However, we had no pass rush to speak of which was a trend all year. Ross not being available was just terrible luck for us. The LBs were swallowed up by their OL all day. We pretty much got owned at the point of attack all day. There were a few flashes here and there with some of the younger guys, but it was a pretty bad performance overall.
I'm not sure what Mattison could have done to change things up since were being beaten at all three levels pass or run. I guess we could have gone all out against the run 8 or 9 in the box, but I suspect Hyde still would have popped through and hit even bigger plays.
Maybe we could have done some more line stunts or exotic run blitzes, but not sure if any of it would have made a difference. This was far and away the best offense we face all year (even the IU score fest wasn't this dangerous).
I'm not saying Mattison doesn't deserve to feel some heat for it but I really think we were just out-matched physically. I'm not even sure if its a depth or youth thing - it might just be enough of a talent disparity in 2-3 positions that just couldn't be overcome.
I'm still very proud of the guys as they've had a rough go of it with the offense struggling like they have this season. Today just wasn't meant to be.