Is the Sherrone Moore vs Jesse Minter debate a false choice?

Submitted by tah15 on January 16th, 2024 at 11:12 PM

Assuming JH leaves, it seems likely he'd take Minter with him, making Sherrone the obvious successor (especially with DeBoer and Fisch off the table). However, I've seen many argue that Minter would be the better choice for HC due to the strength of the defense the last few years (not wrong!). Although, the offensive line play has been every bit as important.

Were Sherrone to be JH's handpicked successor -- and it seems pretty clear that he is -- wouldn't the Ravens/Michigan/Chargers (or Eagles?) partnership keep the Michigan NFL DC internship open anyway? I can't imagine the Harbaugh's (and Minter) wouldn't take care of Sherrone on this front if he was Jim's handpicked successor. And if that's the case, wouldn't Sherrone's game day HC wins over PSU and OSU, his relationship with the current players on the roster, and his ability to connect with high school and portal players make him every bit as strong (if not stronger) of a candidate than Minter? 

For reference sake, Andy Staples has mentioned this very contingency here. 

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FB Dive

January 16th, 2024 at 11:24 PM ^

I legitimately don't understand your second paragraph. Anyways, Sherrone vs. Minter is only a debate on the clickbait corners of the Internet. If Harbaugh leaves, Sherrone will succeed him.

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Hensons Mobile…

January 16th, 2024 at 11:31 PM ^

The second graph is wordy, but decipherable.

Minter is a better X's and O's coach.

Moore is better at everything else that goes into being a college coach.

Moore's flaw (being average, give or take, at X's and O's) can be mitigated by having kick-ass assistants.

Both Harbaughs will still be invested in seeing Moore and Michigan succeed. (Probably true-ish for Jim, maybe not so much for John. That's my own view.)

As such, both would still be sending young up-and-comer assistants to help Moore from their NFL teams, just as John did with Macdonald and Minter.

That is the second paragraph.

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Watching From Afar

January 17th, 2024 at 10:00 AM ^

Alabama's defense was good, but yeah they put up 20 points in regulation against them. That wasn't a banger of an offensive game. They had drives and plays that were very, very good, but they also clunked around for almost an entire half. To a lesser extent that happened against Washington as well, but really it's how the unsuccessful drives play out. They're not 2-3 first downs and a punt. Those drives are more like 3 yards and a punt.

Here's the drive chart against Alabama:

2 yards; punt

75 yards; TD

20 yards: punt

4 yards; punt

83 yards; TD

21 yards; punt

2 yards; punt

1 yard; punt

20 yards; missed FG

75 yards; TD

25 yards; TD in OT

So their non-scoring drives averaged 10 yards. Four 3 and outs that didn't even result in 10 yards if you put them together.

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FB Dive

January 16th, 2024 at 11:52 PM ^

I understood parts of it, but I genuinely have no idea what some of the fragments mean

Were Sherrone to be JH's handpicked successor -- and it seems pretty clear that he is

Yes, he is.

wouldn't the Ravens/Michigan/Chargers (or Eagles?) partnership keep the Michigan NFL DC internship open anyway?

Huh? The Chargers and the Eagles aren't part of this partnership. And what would the Ravens to Michigan pipeline have to do with "keeping the Michigan DC position open anyway" if Sheronne succeeds Harbaugh? It technically isn't even open now, even though we mostly expect Minter to go to the NFL

I can't imagine the Harbaugh's (and Minter) wouldn't take care of Sherrone on this front if he was Jim's handpicked successor.

Again, what does "taking care of Sherrone on this front" mean? Do you mean Minter would stay or that a new Ravens coach would step in as DC?

And if that's the case, wouldn't Sherrone's game day HC wins over PSU and OSU, his relationship with the current players on the roster, and his ability to connect with high school and portal players make him every bit as strong (if not stronger) of a candidate than Minter? 

Yeah. That's why Sherrone is the frontrunner for the job. Minter is only being considered by segments of the Michigan blogosphere. 

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Hensons Mobile…

January 17th, 2024 at 12:04 AM ^

Hi FB Dive. For some reason I'm really invested in helping you understand this. I already rewrote the paragraph for the OP above in response to your initial comment, which has since been endorsed by the OP. But I will help you break this down further.

Huh? The Chargers and the Eagles aren't part of this partnership. And what would the Ravens to Michigan pipeline have to do with "keeping the Michigan DC position open anyway" if Sheronne succeeds Harbaugh? It technically isn't even open now, even though we mostly expect Minter to go to the NFL

The Chargers or Eagles would be (potentially) the team where Jim Harbaugh lands. So that makes the connection to Michigan (because Harbaugh wants to help Moore).

The "keep the Michigan NFL DC internship open" meant keep the pipeline open. He left out a word. Maybe still not a perfect sentence, but he doesn't mean keep the position empty.

Again, what does "taking care of Sherrone on this front" mean? Do you mean Minter would stay or that a new Ravens coach would step in as DC?

A new Ravens coach (or coach from Jim's team) would step in.

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tah15

January 17th, 2024 at 12:05 AM ^

I think the concern has been that if we prioritize Moore over Minter, we'd lose Minter to wherever Jim goes. I'm saying that even if we lose Minter in the Moore scenario, we'd likely keep that quality of DC and that scheme simply because John (Ravens) and Jim (Chargers or Eagles or whoever) would keep us well supplied. 

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1VaBlue1

January 17th, 2024 at 8:40 AM ^

Agree.  John likes Michigan but he has no connection other than his dad and brother coached there.  I can see Jim suggesting a young assistant from time to time.  But lets be serious - MacDonald went to Michigan for promotion because his path in Baltimore was blocked at the time.  Gaining 'experience' was secondary.  Minter left Baltimore a couple years earlier for the Vandy DC job and came to Michigan as a promotion because he had experience with the Raven's defense.  I'm sure John vouched for him, but John didn't 'send' him (or MacDonald) to Michigan.

The 'pipeline' isn't really a pipeline, per se, as much as it is some good recommendations and advice from big brother John.

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Romulan Commander

January 17th, 2024 at 9:20 AM ^

I think we're seeing the commitment of Jim Harbaugh to the future of Michigan football in action right now. Which does not indicate to me that he would be interested in being a "supplier"of assistant coaches to the program. If he goes, he's gone and will be locked-in on the Falcons or Chargers or whomever hires him.

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schreibee

January 17th, 2024 at 9:00 AM ^

Whoa whoa whoa there hatter!

I grew up in AA around the same time as the Harbaugh bros. My family was connected to UM, as was theirs.

My father took a job in SF and we moved to the Bay Area around the same time Jack did. Unlike Jim I have never returned to living in AA, I'm still in the Bay Area.

But I have NEVER stopped looking back, never stopped being a Michigan fan. And I have a damn sight less connection to the football program than Jim does!

Unless your implication is he'll leave bitter? Otherwise he's got a lot of reasons to keep the type of relationship going between his NFL destination & Michigan that he has with the Ravens. 

Personal & professional reasons...

 

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michengin87

January 17th, 2024 at 8:26 AM ^

Since OSU has beaten nearly everyone since the beginning of the Urban Meyer era (139-17), that leaves a very small pool.  Looking at recent coaches, the only people in this category are:

  1. Mark Dantonio 3-8 vs. OSU and 6-6 in bowls.
  2. Kirk Ferentz 2-9 vs. OSU and 10-10 in bowls.
  3. Kirby Smart 1-0 and 7-1 in bowls.
  4. Dabo Swinney 3-1 and 10-6 in bowls.

I wouldn't want any of the above.  OK, maybe Kirby.

Alternatively, the only others that fit your criteria are our current assistant coaches and Mike MacDonald.  As they obviously have relationships with our roster and recruits, it looks clear to me who we must interview in the event Jim leaves.

In all seriousness, there are not many other names that would meet this criteria.  Hence why we need to do everything we can to keep JJH.  Warde, let's get it done!!

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michengin87

January 17th, 2024 at 8:32 AM ^

There is a reason that some professional teams regularly win and others don't.  Of course, money is a big part of it, but there are low budget teams that are regular winners.  This is the result of a winning culture that starts at the top.  Santa facilitates that.  IMO, Mark Schlissel inhibited a winning culture and was something that Jim Harbaugh was nonetheless able to overcome.

 

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Bluesince89

January 17th, 2024 at 12:20 AM ^

Genuinely curious who the options would be. I don’t know any one outside of the big names that are all off the table now. Is that guy from BC still well regarded? What about the Kansas fella? Any one not currently coaching? Coax Chris Petersen into a 1 year gig where he’s just a shepherd/culture guy until we decide what to do next year? Same idea with Big Game Bob? Pete Carroll? Worth kicking the tires on Mullen? Shark Boy? Just trying to get creative with names that stick out of guys who are realistic options (Lincoln Riley isn’t leaving USC to come here). I ultimately think it’s Moore and I think he’ll be a good HC, but would love to get thoughts on who everyone is thinking of when they think of qualified outside the family coaching candidates. I just don’t know who is considered up and coming or worthy of consideration. Hard pass on Campbell, I think, and Fleck too. 

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1VaBlue1

January 17th, 2024 at 9:44 AM ^

I negged you, and I'll explain why...

Hiring a new coach - any coach - is a dice roll because you're starting over with an unknown commodity.  No matter how successful new coach was somewhere else, this place is new and there are no such things as guarantees. 

Right now, the Harbaugh method works - we have a culture that is awesome, players that buy-in, excellent athletes/players for the schemes run, a recruiting pipeline that is scheme and player based.  And an overall approach that fits the University of Michigan standards, requirements, admissions, and arrogance.  It all works together so well that we just won the National Championship!

If Harbaugh leaves, the die is cast on a new coach.  Moore represents stability for the players, culture, schemes, and recruiting pipeline.  Of course changes will be made, but those will be relatively minor in the grand scheme of things. Understanding how to operate at Michigan cannot be overstated.

Bringing in someone new off the street is different.  In that case, the entire coaching staff (most likely) will be gone.  The existing culture will cease, and something new will be attempted to replace it.  The schemes, perfected over three years, will be replaced with the new coaches preference.  The player types (personalities, traits, strengths/weaknesses) will need to change to better fit the new schemes.  The recruiting pipeline will change to whatever player type new coach prefers.  Will new coach be able to work with Michigan admissions?  Understand how best to use the Portal at Michigan?  Deal with pay-to-play at Michigan?  None of these things can be scoffed at.

There is FAR MORE risk involved with bringing in someone off the street, no matter how successful they were somewhere else.  I say we minimize risk and see what Sherrone (or Jesse, or Mike) can do with the programs already in place that they helped build.

If that dice roll fails, so be it.  Any roll can fail - I'd rather give myself the best chance at succeeding by sticking with what's worked most recently.

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