SEC + Ohio State announce they'll bring athletes back on campus by June 8th
https://www.secsports.com/article/29209803/sec-permit-voluntary-person-athletics-activities
This should go without saying, but we need to get our guys back in the gym by June 8th at the latest or we will fall even farther behind. Let's play football.
Well the stay at home order was extended until 6/12 so we won't be joining them.
Maybe we can...just 10 people or less at a time.
Probably up to Schlissel and Warde. I thought I saw that research is allowed on north campus already, that wouldn't require Manuel to walk back his "students need to be back" comments.
Brady Hoke's punt team agrees.
MSU is bringing back their players on the 8th as well (I'm fairly certain that is the date but in any event they had a date determined last week before the extension), I would bet this is coordinated by the big ten.
Great news if true. Do you remember where you read that? Also good news for Minnesota, Rutgers, PSU, Illinois, and the fightin Fitzgeralds.
It was told directly to me by someone in the football office. Specifically said they were bringing back the kids on June something, I should remember the date but that wasn't really important to the conversation. The 8th sounds right though. This was early this week.
The citizens of the state of Michigan will decide when Michigan opens with or without the consent of the Governor!
but she'll keep extending it because she is over her skis and loves her new authoritah
I'm sure she loves this crisis and relishes having the state on lockdown. Authoritarians often order lockdowns just to enjoy them. Yea, that makes a lot of sense.
Wonder how she got essentially the full medical community of the world to go along with her suggestion. I don't remember any times medical authorities in the democratic world when free-speaking medical authorities just went along with a dictator's decrees. But you must know history much better than me.
not only do not all of the "scientists" agree, the ones (Fauci) we are listening to most keep flip flopping. Don't wear masks, wear masks. it can't transmit human/human. Yes it can. Lockdown, don't lockdown. It's on surfaces, no it isn't.
is it too much to ask for people to say "we don't have all the answers and there is a lot of unknown"
in the absence of concrete information, such drastic measures should not be taken.
with regard to history, let me ask you...name one time where a tyrant took power or started some new program by saying I'm here to do great evil, give me the power to do so. No, it's always done in the name of 'the greater good" or "safety" and then inevitably they keep that power. Germany. USSR. Venezuela. Cuba. CHINA
A sense of proportion ... you lack it.
(You can contest the details on Whitmer and I'll listen. Just don't be ridiculous.)
You ask "is it too much to ask for people to say 'we don't have all the answers and there is a lot of unknown'"
Wouldn't that count as "flip-flopping", which you complain about a sentence or so earlier?
How about start by admitting that you don't have all the answers, and that decades long specialists in epidemiology and public policy, while not sages or philosopher kings, may be making a good faith effort.
Probably too much to ask.
no, just that it’s ridiculous to lock the whole country down based on bad guesses and garbage models and then say “whoops my bad”. That’s Fauci. The amount of times he has made definitive statements and then said something totally different later on is staggering. And that goes for many doctors. Only the ones who dared disagree with WHO or CDC were censored and branded conspiracy theorists. If he had said from the get go that we aren’t sure what we are dealing with, maybe our economy would not have been gutted. But apparently that’s too much to ask.
I agree with you once again. Hard to play tit for tat from some of these people on this message board. I'd like to see all of business open up. We need 1000 Karl Mienkes' (barber from Owosso) to just say to our governor, screw you and just open up. That includes all bars and restaurants with live entertainment, gyms, and all others I can't think of.
How do you know what a garbage model is? Are you a statistician with decades of experience in epidemiology or just some blow hard with an opinion? At the end of the day, lives have been saved but the steps we have taken and I am sick of all the gotcha games from people like you who can’t hold their water
They aren’t gotcha games when opinions are presented as fact, which results in dramatic policies affecting everyone, then go back and say we were wrong. So were they wrong then or now? It will change by next week I’m sure
Learn the scientific method. You give the best hypothesis with the data you have at the time. With that, you implement policy that gives the best outcome. Not sure how you don’t understand this. You are complaining about a policy that has saved lives because of concern about the economy. Fact: without the quarantine, social distancing would still be happening and restaurants and other small business would be dying. The only solution is better testing, leadership, and working together. When that is implemented, the data would be better and better models and policy would result. Then people would have confidence to go back out and enter the economy
He's a blow-hard oozing ignorance to support his opinion. They find a few doctors who support what they say and represent this as some large faction of experts. They comb Fauci's email for the use of a double negative and then accuse him of being part of the deep state. In short, they fit data to their opinions rather than change opinions based on data. In psychology it's called confirmation bias, the strongest human bias, and these people are pathologically afflicted.
And to the blathering moron who started this thread. Do you even look at the statistics of this pandemic? The USA has a third of the world's cases and are 4% of the world population. That means we have roughly 12X the infection rate of the rest of the world. That's us, the richest country in the history of the world. And the reason is people like you, who can't put aside their own self-absorption for the public good for even a few months, can't listen to any of their fellow human beings, and who are experts beyond all the experts on what's best for everything. Why don't all of you zealots just start having infection parties the way first-grade moms used to for chicken-pox? Those of you that survive will be immune, and the rest of us can follow the recommendations of public health experts. That should end the COVID epidemic quickly and slice 5-10% off your asinine ranks.
You say I just find some double negatives for Fauci contradicting himself. But he has been wrong over and over, yet he is deified in the media because he continually advocates for a "slow reopen"
evidence of being wrong - HIS OWN WORDS
"Very low risk to the United States" Jan 26
Feb 28 https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMe2002387?articleTools=true
"the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza"
March 8 Interview on 60 Minutes "Right now people should not be walking around with masks"
March 11 while testifying before Congress "now it's 10x worse than the seasonal flu"
His model was the IMHE model which has been a travesty and off by factors in the hundreds
For instance, factoring in lockdowns and social distancing, the model predicted the state of Iowa to have 1300 deaths by April 30. It currently has 271. It predicted Georgia's peak to be 134 deaths on April 21st. 24 died instead. You could write an entire book how wrong this model was.
On April 10th, Fauci then said said he is skeptical of models because "models are only as good as the assumptions put into it"- thanks for telling us now!
Just last week before Congress he said he is unsure if kids should go back to school, despite China, Japan, Denmark, France, Sweden, Switzerland are going to. Do they all hate their children more than us?
Then he says not reopening will cause catastrophe
We're told we have to trust Fauci by all the smartypants blue checkmarks, but which Fauci should we trust? What kind of expert gets exalted for such an inconsistent track record?
And that's just ONE of your beloved scientists. I could pick any of the "unanimous" ones who endorse his model but he has been consistently wrong and yet he is anything but infallible.
So please stop bringing a knife to a gunfight and bring facts to support your position instead of personal attacks. And as for you wishing a disease on me? Seek help. Get a hobby. Or a dog. Take a walk. Preferably a long one off a short pier
I live outside of the USA and don't watch Fauci. But I am a physician and watch data. Which you have no command of at all, except cherry-picking for your gotcha links. That isn't how statistics work.
You obviously love you some Trump. So how come you've left out all the quotes when he's been wrong? And you started this absurdity calling out Whitmer as an authoritarian wannabe. A week ago the president's unelected son-in-law talked about postponing the presidential election? No comment about the dictatorial nature of that? You're a cherry-picking fraud.
I did bring the most important fact. The fact that the richest, most advanced nation in world history, with the most advanced medical systems on Earth, has 12X the international average of cases, despite 10 weeks of warning. Since you have such a command of science, explain how this was caused by anything but executive incompetence instigating entitled anti-science buffoons like yourself to behave dangerously.
As for wishing disease on you, that's hardly what I said. I said, if you're going to deny the expertise of physicians and scientists, who have nothing to gain and have devoted their lives to this endeavor of public health, then please just get the exposure over with amongst yourselves by having some infection parties, then staying at home with your symptoms instead of swarming ER's, and quit endangering the rest of us.
As for personal attacks, I don't know anything about you personally. But you've shown that your understanding of science isn't even at a dilettante level, and that you're a politically biased buffoon who sifts right-wing news for the word 'science' and then links it as proof. How come you never quote scientific papers, only right-wing media? Have you ever read a COVID medical paper from a prestigious journal like the NEJM, JAMA or the BMJ? Other posters have called you out for your clear lack of expertise to support your vitriol? You only respond with more faux-science links. What are your credentials to make these conclusions? I'm sure they don't exist, only your out-of-control political emotions.
you said I don't read journals like the NEJM when I literally quoted an article from NEJM. Right there in the post. My point is that scientists and doctors can and have been wrong, and that their decisions and warnings were the cause for these lockdowns in the first place. The models originally used to justify lockdowns have been debunked. The curve has been flattened 100x over. Was there ever a hospital that was overrun and where patients could not get treatment? No and when that happened the goalposts moved to stay home to save every life. That is just not a good policy and In my belief, that has been a huge mistake. You can take their warnings and learn more about the risks of the virus and let people know, and allow people to make their own decisions. Mandated lockdowns where people are told they cannot go to work or congregate together is not an American response. Civil liberties have been trampled on in the name of safety. I don't know why you assume I believe Trump is untouchable just because I went after Whitmer. That shows me that it is actually you who is political. I'm not denying the expertise of doctors. What I have pointed out is that many who went against the "party line" of the CDC and WHO and said that these lockdowns are not helping to stop the spread were censored or branded conspiracy theorists. Anybody who says “just listen to the experts” is really just telling you to listen to “their” experts. Because the second you start listening to “experts” who disagree with their experts, they tell you you are listening to the wrong experts.
A virus with a 98% survival rate is literally making some people in the United States lose its mind. I refuse to live in fear.
My credentials are that I am a citizen and also someone who signed up to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and demestic by joining the Marine Corps. So did governor Whitmer when she took the oath of office. I took and still take that seriously. She does not and I have a problem with that
So, you're afraid that power-hungry officials may keep things locked down indefinitely simply to flex their "authority" and use scientist in scare quotes to lampoon those trying to gather sufficient data on a novel virus (which, by the way, means previously unknown).
And then, you cite as evidence of this incipient tyranny an article in which one of your bugbears says, based on evidence acquired to date, we should begin lifting restrictions so that the economy is not further debilitated.
I'm not sure how this all connects in your head, but it comes across as disjointed and more reflexive than thought through.
It’s not reflexive at all. I have been against any shutdown this whole time. What’s reflexive is moving the goalposts from flatten the curve to save every life. If models used to justify the lockdowns predicted millions of deaths and the overwhelming of hospitals, then how can you trust the same people that pushed or produced the models? They don’t push them anymore because they we’re so far off.
And criminals are being let out of prison while salon owners go to jail all over the country. That is vindictive and flexing power, and should scare and anger all of us. But the whole thing is political so you probably think it’s justified
When you cite the Washington Examiner you lose all credibility. Sorry, Champ.
What does the source have to do with anything? Those are doctors’ own words. And if we have learned Anything from this whole thing, you are not allowed to disagree with doctors and scientists.
When you cite WAPO, you lose all credibility. Sorry, Geek.
Are you serious right now?!
You really fear Big Gretch is going to continue to flex her gubernatorial muscle in the name of 'Power'?
He suspects she is using this quarantine to cement her power and become the dictator of the United state of Michigan. Damn governor with authoritarian tendencies. Well at least she can’t find road improvements! #tyranny
“in the absence of concrete information, such drastic measures should not be taken.”
A barely understood novel virus has killed 100k Americans in 3 months despite unprecedented social distancing. Yet in this high-risk, low-visibility situation, you advocate for less restrictive guidelines and more normality. Counterintuitive perspective at best and reckless at worst.
Social distancing such as sticking covid positive old people in old folks homes so that they can all get sick and die? Good thing we all stayed home for 2.5 months so the old people would survive!
Is Michigan looking to succeed? Is whitmer going to overthrough her govt. and leave the USA? Your ramblings at the end are idiotic
Politics come down to simple answer people and complex solutions for complex problems people.
The simple answer always yell the loudest.
if her liftIng “stay at home” only cost one life but you had to chose who it was who would you chose?
Or we just do whatever is deemed safe
instead of just worry about football performance
Well this clearly didn't sit well with some people...
If you're not willing to work out in a packed gym, then take a public shower and go to a sold out concert, tomorrow, you're a gigantic pussy.
Hatter, that is not what this is about. People are really starting to suffer due to this. You may not be, but your circumstances don’t apply to everybody. You don’t seem to realize that people and families are being torn apart arbitrarily due to these continued actions. This has nothing to do with concerts. This has gone far too far and too long. She isn’t keeping people safe, she is actively hurting people.
Families are being torn apart because of a stay at home order? What the hell does that even mean? And how? Phones, video conferencing... there are so many ways to interact with ones family that does not involve being directly next to one another. And now there can be congregations of 10 or less - which includes family gatherings, I would imagine.
What does that mean? It means when the economy tanks, when people lose jobs, it impacts everyone differently.
Back in the 2008 economic downturn, there was a tragedy in my extended family. My cousin was killed in a murder / suicide by a boyfriend who just lost his job. Getting fired threw him over the edge. He also tried to kill her then eight year old son and thank God he missed. The police were minutes away when seconds counted. That kid was the only witness to the man he thought would be his new dad killing his mom and then himself. He spent more time in therapy than anyone should have to in a lifetime.
Doctors have been seeing a rise in suicides. Here's a doctor in CA who sees more deaths by suicide than virus. https://abc7news.com/amp/suicide-covid-19-coronavirus-rates-during-pandemic-death-by/6201962/. The major newspapers have been discussing how bad the mental health toll will be on this country due to the virus and we won't fully know the impact until it is all done.
The real impact of this shutdown I suspect will not be stopping the virus - it will be depression.
Yes, we're all stuck at home. Most of us with our families and some of us alone. Some people are just fine financially, others have gotten even more wealthy, and many have lost some income.
It's tough. But it has been all of 2 months.
Have some perspective. This will all be over soon enough, one way or the other.
She is actively hurting people how? Your grandfather fought the Nazis and you cant handle sitting in your house. This country is fucked.
She is actively hurting people how? Your grandfather fought the Nazis and you cant handle sitting in your house. This country is fucked.
As someone who thinks extreme social distancing is appropriate still. Stay at home orders are actively hurting people yes. You gotta accept its a tough choice, and gotta pick the lesser of two bad choices. I think extreme measures should be taken to keep people relatively safe, but got to do what is possible to resume normal life.
It’s so sad but we had prominent Democrats calling Trump racist when he acted early to attempt to stop this virus. The democrats inability to cooperate, even when it was imperative, has really hurt us in this situation.
You're so full of shit. The pres. did all of jack fucking shit to stop this virus. Halting travel from China? too little too late. Should have shut down all travel from everywhere. No, just China.
Should have kept the pandemic response team. Nope, that was that evil Nigerian former alleged president who started that program.
Should have not cut funding to the CDC. Nope, they are liberal elites.
Shouldn't be using the pandemic PCs and Mem. Day events as an defacto election campaign events.
You're 1st paragraph is reasonable tho. The curve has been flattened. We've been in this for 2 months. Open up slowly, let people be outside is small groups (10-50 or less with SD), wear masks, allow essential services to operate in some capacity (delivery/pickup retail, funeral & wedding services, contructrion, etc). Don't allow unnecessary indoor gatherings. Don't allow large events hundreds+ at all. Eliminate super spreader events, educate about masks and hygene like washing hands when entering & exiting every room if possible. Turn off the HVAC and open the windows. Educate about the real risks to indicate that this isn't really a binary 100% safe/not safe at all situation:
- outdoor activity with SDing/masking in groups less than 50ish, staying home are low risk (green)
- commonly touched surfaces, outdoor activity with SDing/masking in groups 50ish- 200ish are moderate risk. (yellow).
- Spending more than a minute or two inside with more than 10 people in close proximity like a large church service, an indoor gym, hand shaking, hugging, kissing, large events like concerts, sports are high risk (red).
The problem is that this country (in spite of being just about 90% on the same page when it comes to reopening) is so fucking colored by team sports-like devotion to one party or the other that you can't help but blame the other side. You're 1st PP is reasonable, the second is the same bullshit as PSU fans defending JoePa. The buck stops everywhere except with your guy b/c, and only b/c, he's your guy.
Eh you are over simplifying things. Trump is the first president of my lifetime I have been proud of (only the third I followed at all) so of course in general I’ll defend him. No I don’t agree with everything he has done. But when people attack him so irrationally I gotta defend him. Has he been perfect in response to this virus ? No. Was there anything at all he could of done to stop the virus ? Of course not. like I said in my last post, if he was criticized by Democrats for shutting off flights from China (a super obvious move in hindsight) imagine if he tried to do more early on ?
I honestly don’t understand how someone can support this New Democrat party. It’s the party of feelings and not facts.
Save us, Michigan Supreme Court.
They really, really need to. But she doesn’t want to take a political L of that size. If she was fearful of the court she wouldn’t have extended it. It may be time to consider selling and moving.
Are you looking for someone to tell you not to?
See ya!
My god, you are such a whiny bitch. Waaa waaa waa - ‘i need to stay home with my family. It’s not fair.’ Just shut the fuck up and move already
We've now passed the point at which the stay-at-home order makes any kind of practical sense. (Look at Washtenaw County's data.) You can't "flatten the curve" any more than we have.
At this point it's just political theatre.