Honest question to the board. If Davis, Brown, Brooks and Smith all said they wanted to come back and you were Howard what would you do?
I would say, "Welcome back!"
Perhaps there would be some churn from other areas of the roster, but if that rotation comes back, you have the chance for a special season - even better than this one. Just like professional teams pay luxury tax or sacrifice draft picks to make their team better now, I think Juwan would have to do the same
Uhh... good luck keeping the #1 recruiting class in the nation from hitting the transfer portal if everyone comes back.
I feel like Michigan fans aren't used to the fact that kids like Houstan and Diabate don't just sit on the bench. Even Collins and Bufkin will be getting way more playing time than what Williams and Zeb had this year.
That being said, this team is most definitely pre-season top 3 if Chaundee and Eli both come back one would think? Gonzaga would be #1 I would venture if Holmgren and Sallis are both going there.
Disagree. This team was a missed shot (on arguably their worst game of the season) away from the Final Four. Even if all of these players come back, you have two key rotational pieces to replace (Livers & Wagner). Plenty of PT for Houstan if he's ready. Ditto for Collins although he in theory would have to take some of Zeb's minutes and Eli / Smith would probably play fewer minutes.
To be clear, I'm not saying that there may not be roster consequences if all stay, I'm saying I don't care. You push all the chips in to win while you can, which this team proved it's capable of.
I’d rather be Nova than Kentucky. Take the players who have proven they’re ready for this level and if the 5 stars don’t want to win they can go put up empty stats elsewhere.
You don’t sacrifice 1 year for 3 years. Your depth goes to shit if the 2021 class just up and left.
Who is planning to stay for 3 years?
Depth is always going to be a concern when you sign one and done candidates. We need to get used to this new transfer era where Michigan and other top teams will continually plug holes in their roster through the portal. And where young players that you were counting on to develop into rotation players will often leave early - not that that will be anything new for Michigan.
The recruiting game is always about adding players who can help you win now if you can. Adding future depth is a secondary goal. It's of some importance, but no coach is going to turn down a great roster for the coming season.
Diabate is the closest thing to a 1 and done in the next class. Houstan has a good skill-set but typically doesn’t fit the mold of elite 1st rd. Prospects. If Brown & Brooks come back, all the younger guards might end up leaving. Then you’re really scrambling next off season to fill holes. Transition is difficult, but we’ll be better for it in the long run.
Very unlikely. None of the incoming guards are 5 star recruits. Neither was really projected to be a sure fire starter. Both will get plenty of minutes even if Brooks and Brown return. No reason for either of them to bolt, or Zeb for that matter. Remember, Zeb did not start for his HS team but he wanted the development. He will get that at Michigan. Already earned some decent minutes.
Zeb has NBA athleticism. There are plenty of 3-4 year guys that develop their game and get there. If he is in a good place and it seems like program fits then a little patience can be rewarded.
I am confused at why anyone has Bufkin penciled for starter minutes when he has played all of 6 games this season and is still trying to heal a fractured shooting hand.
Am I to understand your argument here Worldwide that in order to bolster the 2023-25 seasons they should tell potentially crucial pieces in a 2022 F4 or even NC run "No thanks" - is that the gist?
Suffice it to say I could not disagree more, and leave it at that...
Also someone said Zeb didn't even start for his HS? I was not aware of that, and have to ask how did Michigan come to offer a player who didn't start in HS? I was repeatedly surprised how unable he appeared to be to understand the flow and spacing of the O, resulting in mostly just giving up on looking to pass and launching long distance shots (often long 2s). This would help explain his play, but I'm curious how he earned his offer?
Transferred to a powerhouse and sat behind higher end talent
If you believe you can wes in a championship you do!
Agree completely. Let them all compete and let the best players play. If it’s the returning guys, fine; if it’s the freshman, that’s fine too.
I’m not saying this guy is wrong about Chandry, but I have heard from someone who was told by both Smith and Chandry themselves that they are done with school. 5 years of college is great when all you do is Keggers but these guys grind. Things change, as this was before the tourny, but this person would know.
"I know a guy who knows a guy" credibility is not great when you can't even spell Chaundee's name right.
Who is Chandry?
That post was a piss poor representation of "Commie High" there, 96
I think the portal is all the more reason you bring all the guards back for a legit great shot at winning it all. Houstan and Diabate would play a bunch anyway.
You solve tomorrow's problems tomorrow. Deck clears again next year for anyone who stays plus whoever they get in recruiting and the portal. It's not like Michigan won't lose some more guys to the portal in the coming years anyway.
Consider this: Three of those guys (Davis, Brooks, and Smith) aren't realistically going to play professionally in the U.S. They'd be coming back for some extra school / college life and to be elder statesmen on the team. I don't think they'd be crushed if they saw less time later in the season (that is, if the younger guys developed quickly).
Brown is in another category of talent but he's already shown he's OK with a reserve role.
Entirely plausible. Brown and Brooks easily puts Michigan back into national title contention for next year.
Yep. Michigan would be a preseason top 3 team with a very high floor.
I made this comparison a few days ago...
2012 : 2013 :: 2021 : 2022
It's not a perfect 1:1 analogy but bear with me...
The 2013 Runner-up team was made possible because Trey Burke, Tim Hardway Jr., Jordan Morgan, Jon Horford from the 2012 team provided the core.
The 2012 class elevated the ceiling of the 2013 team with Nik Stauskas and Glenn Robinson who were ready to contribute from day 1 and became starters. It took Mitch McGary nearly all of the regular season to find himself but he exploded once he had improved. Meanwhile, Spike would provide flashes as a back-up. And LeVert (who Beilein thought would initially redshirt) started showing out more and more in practice until LeVert actually got significant minutes during the NCAAT.
That's not entirely different from the 2021 team essentially supplying the core of the 2022 team. Imagine if Eli Brooks, Chaundee Brown, Brandon Johns, and Hunter Dickinson as starters (or at least getting 25+ minutes). That's also not accounting someone like Terrance Williams. Add Caleb Houstan and Moussa Diabate and we have a strong solid 7. Meanwhile, players like Kobe Bufkin and Isaiah Barnes will likely contribute in spurts as freshmen. (They're further ahead than most people know or realize.)
Finally, if Davis returns then just LOL. He would provide insurance against injury.
We could legitimately have a 9-10 man rotation. Depth wouldn't be an issue.
Now, can we find or develop a true PG? Will Eli Brooks transition to that role or will he remain as a combo guard/secondary PG?
I see your point about maintaining the recruiting class, and I won't completely dismiss it like some others on the board are saying. The context here is what would be important, especially pertaining to Smith and Davis. Meaning what are their expectations of returning?
For example, if Davis and Smith want to pursue a graduate degree and get into coaching after their COVID eligibility expires, I think bringing them back would be a great thing so long as they understand the best players will play, and in this case their minutes might be occupied by freshman (most likely in Davis' case).
For someone like Smith, it might be that they will be logging starter minutes to begin the season, but as Collins becomes more acclimated his role will diminish as the season wears on and Collins develops.
These are just arbitrary examples, but point being - if these guys just want a spot on the team for another shot at a title and are willing to accept the roles that the coaches assign to them regardless of what their roles were this past season, this would be a great thing.
When it comes to Eli and Brown, you take those guys back no matter what, as they would log heavy minutes on a championship contending team regardless of what the impact is on the underclassmen.
Couldn’t agree more. Some freshman may not even make it to campus if this is the case. Bufkin/Barnes just going to redshirt??
I don't see a real issue here.
First, some of the freshmen are going to start regardless of who comes back - they are too good.
Then, yeah, some guys might not be happy and decide to leave . . . but based on everything we've seen in the last 24 months, Juwan's very likely to be able to replace them.
Bottom line: do you want more proven talent/experience on next year's roster, or less?
Brooks and Brown have a spot if they want one. Both these guys have shown they can play defense at this level. Even the best 5 stars take time to adjust to college level defense. Scoring is scoring but D'ing up more physically developed players takes time. Davis has shown he will do whatever is asked of him and is a great back-up center that can eat 10-15 minutes a game if needed. Smith may get a shot over seas, but he is not playing professional in the states. If he wants to come back you take a 6th year guy with his skills especially after he has shown he will work in the role you put him in.
Bottom line, Michigan has won once in '89 despite having some great teams. Even the best teams fall short and need luck to win it all. The best recruiting tool is deep tournament runs. The kids will come if you keep winning.
Won't Gonzaga lose their top 3 from this year? Timme is not gonna improve his stock, so he might as well leave, Kispert same boat, and Suggs will be a top 3 pick. If Barkley and Kenny Smith were drafting he would be #1.
If Smith, Eli, Chaundee, and Davis all want to come back, that would create a potential issue.
If it's 1-2, the specific players that return matter more. Between Franz/Livers/Davis, we have 73 MPG to replace. Houstan / Diabate are likely to be the most ready as freshman. Houstan seems like he can come in and play 25-30 minutes right away as a 3 or 4. Diabate seems like a 25 minute / game guy at the 4 or 5.
Houstan / Diabate = 75% of Franz/Livers/Davis. The other 25% can be Johns and maybe Williams.
There is a bit of a log jam in the front court.
We have 80 minutes to replace between Smith/Eli/Chaundee. Right now, that's likely going to the winner of Zeb/Collins/Bufkin/Barnes and maybe Houstan. Those are massive shoes to fill for unproven guys.
If Smith or Eli comes back, that number decreases to 50. Enough for 2-3 of the above players to have roles - much more manageable, IMO.
He should tell his wife he won't need a Christmas present cause he just got it early!
As others have said - you welcome them all back but make it clear PT will be earned not given.
I think Smith is in an odd position. If only 1 player was to return I believe he would be the most useful but if they all wanted to return I think he is the toughest to accommodate. Davis' role would be closer to a grad-assistant imo ... but one who could pick up some minutes in a pinch.
With Brown and Brooks (only) back you could split time something like this (in order of minutes played)
1 Brooks <> Collins, Jackson
2. Jackson <>Buffkin<>Brown
3. Houstan, Brown, Williams
4. Johns, Diabate, Williams
5. Dickinson, Diabate, Johns (and/or Davis)
If you add Smith everyone slides down and (probably) minutes for Jackson and Williams shrink significantly. Tschetter and Barnes were likely already looking at Williams-level minutes with no-returnees next year - so they probably end up as bench-mob unless one surprises.
I wouldn't be surprised to see either Williams or Johns transfer if Brown is back. That means Houstan plays more 4 which Johns is already splitting with Diabate when he's not backing up Dickinson.
Johns is not transferring regardless if Brown is back. He will start at the 4.
Eli, Chaundee, Houstan, Johns, Dickinson
or
Smith, Eli, Chaundee, Johns, Dickinson
Doesn’t matter if he starts or not. It’s how many minutes he’ll actually get. Diabate and Houstan will eat his minutes especially if Brown is back. Your first lineup doesn’t work due to lack of ball handling. Houstan is also a day 1 starter.
You have no fucking idea what you’re talking about
you should change your name to windbag because all you do is blow hot air
Lmao I love this account
Lmao okay. There are roster issues to contend with. Someone will probably be leaving. And yeah good luck running a line up without a secondary ball handler who can make his own shot if Eli gets locked up, which has happened this year. Brown hasn’t shown that since coming to Michigan, but maybe he can be that guy.
Eli can absolutely handle point guard minutes. That first line up is completely plausible. He played the position all of his high school career, was recruited to Michigan (and Villanova) as a point guard, and has played the position extensively while at Michigan. He would be just find handling the starting PG role and would not create any ball handling issues.
If Scotty Barnes isn't a day one starter, then neither does Houstan have to be. I think it's relatively likely he will be, but it's not a disqualifier for him if he comes off the bench and logs 20 minutes a night or whatever. I think you're posting a lot of conjecture here as widely accepted facts.
Juwan Howard was also just named AP COY, and widely praised in the media for not only developing a great program culture, but an elite basketball tactician as well. He just brought a team picked to finish 6th in the B1G to a number 1 seed on the brink of the Final Four without his best player.
In non-video game basketball, that is something prospects and players pay attention too.
Eli’s game is so polished right now. He can play critical point guard minutes. His coming back would cover a lot of ground.
I’m sure he has a vision for what next year could be with him as a leader. Actually coming back for the role could benefit Eli’s game if he is planning on playing overseas.
At 2 Chaundee is starting and leads in minutes over Zeb or Bufkin if he’s back IMO
You need ball handlers... Chaundee won't be at the 2. He would be at the 3 meaning Houstan gets bumped to the 4 along with the 3 leaving either Williams or Johns as the odd man out.
You don't need a proxy point guard to play shooting guard. Michigan started that line up last year because of roster constraints and because Juwan determined that would be a more effective strategy, using Chaundee as a spark plug off the bench as opposed to starting him. I would say that assessment was correct.
Chaundee Brown is a shooting guard. He played that position here, at Wake Forest and in high school. He is absolutely capable of starting at the 2 next to Eli if that's what the coaches determine is the most effective role for him.
If you find a situation in a game where you need an additional ball handler (full court pressure, etc.), you bring in Collins for Chaundee and move Eli to the 2.
No. You play your best players. In this case, likely Chaundee and Houstan but at the 2/3. The 4/5 spot is manned by HD, BJJ and Diabate with some TWill.
Absolutely, the Chaundee who was our ONLY fearless player over every NCAA game is a starter. People writing in Jackson as a starter or Bufkin (who by the way is not playing this season because of a hand fracture and we have no idea how long it takes for his shooting touch to come back) are delusional.
Guys. If Brown and Brooks come back they will have more experience at this level than ANY freshman can really deal with. Leadership, understanding of both the offense and defense, and just that learned knowledge of how to win when it's hard. Freshman just don't have it at this level. This is completely different from any basketball that they have ever played before.
The freshman will be coming off the bench if enough guys come back... and if they have a clue, they will be fine with that. This will be an elite team or an elite team in the making.
Brooks, Brown, and Smith coming back would be amazing. Not holding my breath for this but what a great passage of knowledge it would be.
"Freshman just don't have it at this level. This is completely different from any basketball that they have ever played before."
Jalen Suggs would like a word...
I think we'll see 2 come back, maybe 3. But of you're Howard you tell guys they'll get playing time but it'll be competitive. I do think you can stagger playing time to give guys run, but if all 4 come back expect a transfer or two elsewhere.
Man, would that be cool. He's such an asset. I don't know the last time Michigan had a guy coming off the bench I was so confident in, in all parts of the game.
Yeah. He went from awesome to sort of there to awesome in tourney time. Next year, awesome all the time.